Lookout Landing

I extremely dislike Carlos Silva.

Kevman22 - November 16, 2008 reply

I love him. He's so jolly and round.

.Taylor - November 16, 2008 reply

Don't confuse him with Santa.

Carlos Silva finds Santa very confusing.

Llewdor - November 17, 2008 reply

But...but, this is a serious issue!

We have to find out why a clubhouse containing grumpy old veterans fell apart the way it did!

Right….?

ThundaPC - November 16, 2008 reply

We should all pitch in and buy Geoff a chemistry set for Christmas.

BrianL - November 16, 2008 reply

This is possibly the most fantastic idea I have ever heard

Corco - November 16, 2008 reply

`

BrianL - November 16, 2008 reply

Let's do it

It would take like 20 of us to donate $1

That’s definitely worth it

I was serious on my 5$ paypal offer.

Graham MacAree - November 17, 2008 reply

This money is better spent on Dave Cameron

I wonder how much money we could raise for Dave with a "Donate a Dollar for Dave" campaign or such

I sense this would be a substantial amount of money

Graham MacAree - November 17, 2008 reply

I'm very inclined to organise something like this

Plus the alliteration makes it more fun for everyone

And I'd be very inclined to donate to that cause.

BrianL - November 17, 2008 reply

Rec'd

Now go do it!

Rec'd too

What Positive Paul and BrianL said.

vj - November 17, 2008 reply

I fully agree

I see no reason this blogosphere can’t just give him $10,000

I’m in for any amount

I think we should encourage $1 donations so that people will be more inclined to donate a small amount

plus I honestly think this blogosphere could pretty easily raise $5,000 just with $1 donations

Corconcurred

eponymous_coward - November 17, 2008 reply

The runner up in that contest gets $1,000

In fact, the same person won it- twice in a row

Not that it should stop us from being generous, but there IS a consolation prize that’s better than steak knives.

They need to be exclusive?

As soon as I can get back into my paypal account, I plan on a few donations.

Yeah...

Trust a guy word-for-word that says shit like this:

JM: “He’s a great hitter and a great guy on a team. He would fit a lot of teams because he’s so professional in everything he does. He can really help a team looking for a lefthanded bat. He’s a tough out.”

batura - November 16, 2008 reply

On this matter I think I trust Riggles and Mac

over Baker’s “anonymous clubhouse insider.”

BrianL - November 17, 2008 reply

I honestly don't

The man wants another job in baseball, so he has to continue to play the game and say the right things. For all we know, Mac IS the unnamed source, but can’t come out in public because he will lose opportunities in baseball.

batura - November 17, 2008 reply

Those things are true

Jeff Sullivan - November 17, 2008 reply

That's not false.

.Taylor - November 17, 2008 reply

Way to piggyback.

Holy crap that was quick.

Well

ThundaPC - November 17, 2008 reply

Irony

Believe me, the last thing I want to be doing now — with a manager search underway — is responding to shots, or insinuations from bloggers. But if you let stuff like this float around in the blogosphere without responding, people assume you’re hiding.

Mind you, this 15 paragraph response was posted roughly 4 hours after this one. For something you want to do the least that’s some incredible turnaround time.

ThundaPC - November 17, 2008 reply

I am still proud that we took the only good beat reporter we ever had and drove him insane.

I honestly don't know why you think he's so good as a beat reporter...

Unless you misunderstand what it is exactly that a beat reporter’s job is. It’s to generate stories on what’s happening with the team. It’s meant to bring out stories that only someone close with the clubhouse would be privy to. Now really, does it seem like he has a beat writer style relationship with the team? Does it seem like he connects and gets interesting pieces out or is he just finding the people that can give him the easy in to a piece, be it newsworthy or not?

It’s not meant to be an opinion column but that’s often what he uses it as. What’s worse is he uses himself and the blog-o-sphere as the central topic to his pieces far to often.

SethGrandpa - November 17, 2008 reply

He is a good beat reporter.

The Geoff Baker and Larry Stone duo probably pull in more juicy information (not this Ichiro stuff) than most I’d say. You can see that as recent as the new stat department Zduriencik/Blengino are forming. They pulled out more info when all we had was Zduriencik mentioning it during a luncheon.

Where things fall apart is Baker’s analysis skills. He’s pretty much convinced that clubhouse chemistry is THE main reason the 2008 Mariners fell apart and thus is pushing the Ichiro thing hard. Sure, there were clubhouse problems but pretty much everyone and their mothers’ realize it’s just a result of a bad team caving in dramatic fashion.

I still read Baker’s stuff because he’s still good at delivering news and delving deeper into a story. It’s a shame that it’s almost overshadowed by bad analysis which he defends on a regular basis.

ThundaPC - November 17, 2008 reply

The reason I feel justified at going at Baker for something like this

is because how much of an prick he came off as when he was commenting on the incident at his blog.

I don't understand what a manager search has to do with responding to shots at 12 in the morning

Just fill in the blank and it makes just as much sense

Believe me, the last thing I want to be doing now — with ________________ — is responding to shots, or insinuations from bloggers. But if you let stuff like this float around in the blogosphere without responding, people assume you’re hiding.

eponymous_coward - November 17, 2008 reply

Stuff like that almost makes me feel sorry for him.

He must have had at least 3-4 tantrum’s during the season, and now we have some weird novel length correction/apology/rant.

I especially liked how melodramatic his conclusion was:

But my real concern now is for you all to know that we don’t take lightly the trust you put in us.

Sklyansky - November 17, 2008 reply

Baker, somebody should fill his bed with centipedes

DarkLou - November 17, 2008 reply

Who cares about the team meeting?

I think the most important part of McLaren’s quote is this:

We just didn’t play well.

Bingo. He may have thought all the Ichiro stuff was a bigger deal last summer, but who’s going to have better perspective – a guy who just got fired, or a guy who’s had several months to reflect?

Jeff Sullivan - November 17, 2008 reply

He can't win.

Omerta - November 17, 2008 reply

I find it hard to get too worked up about this.

Geoff got something wrong, which happens when you’re pumping out as much stuff as he is. I don’t really read his blog and I’m not here to blindly defend him, but I have no qualms with taking his explanation at face value.

I legitimately believe that there are players on this team who resent Ichiro. And while it’s annoying to read about it and I wish it would go away, I’d still say it’s fairly newsworthy, considering the big contract and “face of the franchise” status that Ichiro has carried since 2001.

Teej - November 17, 2008 reply

Also note:

He called out Joh as getting some spleen from the rest of the team, too.

Please note that Joh, Kaz and Ichiro ALL got contract extensions during a season- something that’s very rare in this organization if you weren’t born in the same country as the owner of the team. So I don’t doubt there are tensions because of that and the perception there are different rules for the Japanese players, and we all know that Washburn, for one, threw Joh under the bus.

no, remember?

Geoff tells us that Washburn was really really sorry about the misconception that he threw Joh under that bus, and it was all a mistaken notion by the fans.

msb - November 17, 2008 reply

Just in case Geoff decides to delete this one like he did his last rant against the blogosphere.

I present to you, screenshots of his story.

Shot #1
Shot #2
Shot #3

Goose - November 17, 2008 reply

Geoff'n'A's

I'm awaiting the manzell style NAZI post.

But rocks.

Llewdor - November 17, 2008 reply

So the point of contention, then...

…is whether or not jealousy towards Ichiro was a big factor in the M’s suckage in 2008?

Yes, I confused the issue about the team meeting. But the broader issue, the real one, is whether or not lingering jealousies/resentment towards Ichiro were part of the problems that plagued this team in 2008. According to the people I’ve spoken to, they were. And I’m told that some of the players who had problems with him this year were the same ones who had those problems in 2007 and helped prompt that team meeting in Florida to be called.

Sounds like Baker’s doing his job as a beat reporter, really — focusing on details that may or may not be important and running with that side story. My problem with this particular story is – it seems that Baker’s whole emphasis was on the fact that there was some perceived danger that Ichiro was in, and this on-again, off-again “team meeting” was indeed supposed to take aim at removing this danger.

If it rose to the point that there was real threat to Ichiro in 2007 that persisted in 2008, then the front office had to have known about it, and the players involved would have — SHOULD have — been removed from that situation.

Players talk shit about each other all the time. Players resent Ichiro and players love Ichiro. If there’s a real threat, then report the hell out of it and make some real noise about it. If not, then don’t take negative clubhouse chemistry so far that you’re making up something that just isn’t true — or leading others to believe that there’s something happening that isn’t.

We can debate chemistry and its importance all we want — but the more pressing matter here is the fact that there was some real, perceived danger towards Ichiro that was reported. The “truth” that Baker needs to ascertain is just this. I don’t feel like he has.

eponymous_coward - November 17, 2008 reply

Baker had every reason to talk about clubhouse discontent

He just did it way too much.

Jeff Sullivan - November 17, 2008 reply

Yup.

But I think that feeds into his problems with baseball analysis. It’s easy to think that clubhouse factors are larger factors than they really are if you are in a clubhouse every day (just like it’s easy to diminish the importance of scouting if all you do is stats, and so on).

Exactly.

Well, sorta.

He definitely was doing his job reporting the clubhouse discontent. The question becomes how deep this discontent got. It appears that the “truth” that Baker was reporting was that Ichiro was being threatened to the point of being in danger. Is he backtracking on reporting this “truth” now that he notice the juxtaposition of quotes you posted? I’m not quite sure…

.

RH: Did you ever play ball, Max?

MM: No, never have. But I make it a little more fun to watch, you see. And after today, whether you’re a goat or a hero you’re gonna make me a great story. See you around.

But wade through the comments on any of their posts and they’re as crude, ignorant and boorish as any stereotype of a sports fan you can come up with.

I take exception to being called ignorant.

Even at your most egotistical, Canada-centric or straw-man-happy, I’ll take the occasional mistake or bad phrasing from you over anything the LL circle-jerk has to say, any day.

Rec’d for non crude usage of circle jerk.