The 2008 Fielding Bible Awards came out a little while ago, and if you haven't seen them by now, you probably just did. The FBAs are determined by a panel of ten experts who (edit: may or may not) know more than you do so shut up, and while everybody and his mother have their own questions and concerns when it comes to defensive evaluation, the FBAs and the underlying +/- are solid, and
Third Base – Adrian Beltre, Seattle
It was a runaway victory for Adrian Beltre. Beltre won the award two years ago in the closest vote we’ve ever had (the tiebreaker was invoked) but this year his 36-point margin of victory, 90 points compared to 64 points for second-place finisher Evan Longoria, was the second largest margin of victory in this year’s voting.
However unconventional the means, Adrian Beltre is a star. He's an above-average hitter who is by every decent measure one of, if not the best defensive third baseman in baseball. Of all the reasons why we love the guy to death, this is the most significant: he's a freaking hell of a player.
I think we have enough evidence to say that Beltre's a ~+15 run defensive third baseman. Okay, so it's more like +10 < x < +20, but for the sake of simplicity, just stay with me for a minute. Beltre has hit .266/.319/.454 in his time as a Mariner, with ~+15 defense. If you have trouble visualizing that, it's worth the same as a guy who hit .278/.339/.506 with +0 defense. .278/.339/.506, in Safeco Field. Beltre's defense has been worth the equivalent of about 70 OPS points a season. That's huge. Yeah, it'd be nice if he didn't swing himself into embarrassing strikeouts so often, but everybody short of Albert Pujols has a flaw, and in the end the only thing that matters is the overall package. Beltre's is excellent. While it might be sexier if he added some offense at the expense of his defense, it wouldn't actually make the team any better, and picking on Beltre for his one shortcoming is like picking on Ichiro for hitting too many singles. Quit looking for perfection and start appreciating greatness.*
Other things of note, regarding the Fielding Bible Awards and defense in general:

* the same goes for whoever ends up cheering for him next September
0 recs | 65 comments
Imagine how valuable he'd be if he hit .330/.390/.620
JI - November 4, 2008
Fuck you assbutt.
Aaron Campeau - November 4, 2008
I don't root for a horrible underachiver
JI - November 4, 2008
I like assbutt.
royalcurve - November 4, 2008
So much better than buttass.
pdb - November 4, 2008
Seconded.
Kirsten Schlewitz - November 5, 2008
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/11/4/653443/otfpotd-zomg-no-politics-e#9818561
JI - November 5, 2008
Fantastic link, Bill James gives a fantastic breakdown of methods. Now I know what I want for Christmas.
dpseadv - November 4, 2008
So how well would Ibanez have to hit
to match Beltre in overall value?
300ZXNA - November 4, 2008
~Pujols
Aaron Campeau - November 5, 2008
Wait, what?
“The FBAs are determined by a panel of ten experts who know more than you do so shut up”
Judging by the online ballots, Mike Murphy is an expert in fielding in the same way that Michael Kay expertly assesses the value of Derek Jeter. Similarly, I love Joe Poz’s writing, but why is he qualified to judge fielding over, say, Chris Dial? I suppose that I don’t really get the point of it: if you have a system as good as +/- is supposed to be, what do the opinions of Poz, Murphy, et. all really add?
abelard - November 5, 2008
Okay so not all of them are experts
I really just like the +/- and Tango fan results.
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
They don't want 10 people who agree on everything
JI - November 5, 2008
We had to put a stop to the endless sequels before we got to Sullivan's 314 (guys who agree on everything)
Matthew - November 5, 2008
It would be fun to see how many deciples you could round up.
JI - November 5, 2008
All you need is a registration table, a pitcher of kool-aid, and some matching nikes
pdb - November 5, 2008
You could always, and I'm just thinking out loud here, find things that you don't agree on
Such beasts must exist.
marc w - November 5, 2008
I think Duvel is a 9, whereas Matthew thinks it's an 8
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
There we go.... a small step for a beer lover, one giant leap for LL.
marc w - November 5, 2008
To be fair,
I grade on a tougher curve, so we agree on the relative grades.
Matthew - November 5, 2008
Fine, but you're still disagreeing on how tough to make the curve.
It’s something.
Hell, maybe Graham thinks its just above average or something. We can build on this.
marc w - November 5, 2008
I take a firm stand on beer grade inflation.
Matthew - November 5, 2008
Also Duvel holds a sentimental value to me
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
I firmed up my hatred of Bay Area Hippie Tech Douchebags
while drinking Duvel; it holds sentimental value to me as well.
Matthew - November 5, 2008
Another thought
It’d be interesting to do something like this using only data inputs. So you keep the panel format but split it between, say, +/-, UZR, PMR, RZR, and a handful of other systems.
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
Yes it would. You have access to all the delicious proprietary ones?
If you could get all the data from +/- (not just the fielding bible awards), the Cleveland Indians’ deal that Antonetti runs, plus others that I’m not aware of – then put ‘em together with RZR/PMR/UZR, Tango’s rankings… that would be really cool.
marc w - November 5, 2008
If I find the time I will see what I can do
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
Only after you finish up the other assignment I gave you on pitchfx/Harang.
It’s like you think you’re in charge or something.
marc w - November 5, 2008
On another note
Felix almost cracked the top ten.
And who voted for RA Dickey?
PascoJoe - November 5, 2008
Who on earth is Mike Murphy and why did he vote Scott Rolen #1?
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
*Troy Glaus
whoops
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
Troy Glaus is actually pretty good
but he’s no Beltre
JI - November 5, 2008
Well yes, but the point is that the guy voted him #1 and Beltre #10
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
Under qualified?
JI - November 5, 2008
Look at his ballot
Some of his #1s aren’t ranked
He voted Josh Willingham #1 in LF
JI - November 5, 2008
I know
his ballot was… interesting, to say the least
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
He voted for Kennedy, Aki or Loafie #1 at 2B
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
My guess would be Iwamura
JI - November 5, 2008
Mine as well, but it would be awfully funny if he voted Lopez #1 and no one else voted for him at all
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
Willingham? That's awesome.
Ty Willingham’s a better LF.
marc w - November 5, 2008
I liked Glaus at shortstop.
Llewdor - November 5, 2008
I'm glad I never saw that.
He’d make a terrific defensive firstbaseman
JI - November 5, 2008
WAIT LF BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh God, I wish I could post this from work, but Raul Ibanez got 11 votes somehow
seattlebruin - November 5, 2008
I think it's awesome that they worked the Tango Fan Poll into this.
JI - November 5, 2008
What do you make of the RZR and OOZ from 2008 suggesting...
that Jose Lopez played a solid 2b this year?
coasty141 - November 5, 2008
I am not as down on him as Dave and Derek
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
In your opinion
Does he have enough glove to stick at 2nd?
coasty141 - November 5, 2008
For how long?
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
17 years
coasty141 - November 5, 2008
Not even Bret Boone had that.
JI - November 5, 2008
Sounds about right.
Most had him slightly above average in 2007 too. 0<X<5 or so.
marc w - November 5, 2008
I stopped paying any attention to these when Mark Ellis or Chase Utley was not voted #1 at second base...
PaulThomas - November 5, 2008
The survey results are obviously not as important as the +/- scores
Jeff Sullivan - November 5, 2008
Brandon Phillips can pick it.
Tyler - November 5, 2008
Every time I see this article I swear it says "Slurvey Says"
JI - November 5, 2008
I'm glad it's not just me.
Kirsten Schlewitz - November 5, 2008
Hey Fat Albert didn't win the gold glove this year.
EnglishMariner - November 5, 2008
Awwwww.
.Taylor - November 5, 2008
"Billy Beane is going to watch the Orlando Hudson negotiations and laugh, and laugh."
Of course, Hudson will sign here.
Llewdor - November 5, 2008
That would be a good thing.
JI - November 5, 2008
Hudson > Yuni/Lopez
.Taylor - November 5, 2008
hey
over at RR, we all know the Jacobs deal sucks. Okay, most of us know. Ok, some of us know. Ok, I’m pretty dang sure of it. Indeed, I’ve bitched so much about it since it happened (we got burned by a Teahen-for-Franklin Gutierrez rumor just before that turned out to be BS, so the Jacobs things was a major letdown), I might not only get banned, but they might change the website address so that I can’t rejoin…
I know times are tough for you all, but any way you can not rub in that Chuck Lamar is starting to wonder what the hell Dayton Moore is t hinking?
Matt Klaassen - November 5, 2008
Beltre's glove remains golden
As does Ichiro’s.
Goose - November 5, 2008
Meaningless awards
but this still makes me happy.
BrianL - November 5, 2008
Michael Young bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Aaron Campeau - November 5, 2008
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