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Lookout Landing

Done Deal

Thanks for everything, JJ.

The tentative details:

To Seattle:

Aaron Heilman
Franklin Gutierrez
Mike Carp
Endy Chavez

To New York:

JJ Putz
Jeremy Reed
Sean Green

To Cleveland:

Joe Smith
Luis Valbuena

There may be another prospect in there somewhere, but who knows. There are the major names.

0 recs  |  587 comments

Comments

We haven't won a deal in in over 4 decades!
I would love to see JJ take K-Rod's job
After that I'd love to see K-Rod lose the setup job to Sean Green.
Wednesdays with Franklin Gutierrez

just doesn’t have the same ring to it

Were Tuesdays with Sean Green conditional on him playing for the M's?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

seriously that was by far the best part of LL

Zuh?

I just got home from a 13-hour day. What happened?

Hmmm..

JJ, Reed, Green —> Mets
Heilman, Endy Chavez (?), Franklin Gutierrez, Matt Capp -
→ M’s
Valbuena, Joe Smith -→ Indians

Stupid 2.0 strikethrough
blink
Ignore the strike throughs
How to tell if there's been big news regarding the Mariners by checking USSM

“Error establishing a database connection”

I'm sure you'll be able to find Dave on Fangraphs
Pravda has it.

Link

The Mariners would receive right-handed pitcher Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets along with outfielder Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians.

Who are we giving up?
Putz, Reed, Green, Valbuena.
You mean

Putz, Reed, Green, Valbuena.

I like this.

Per MLB.com he's going to Cleveland
Not as happy that Valbuena's in it.

We need middle infielders with non-crappy defense.

Dominoes! Dominoes!
All told, though, this beats any Bavasi trade by a million miles.

And Loafie and Wlad could still get flipped. So yeah.

No mention of the Indian minor leaguers?
Pravda wouldn't know until someone told them.

It’s just further confirmation at this point.

WE WON A TRADE WE WON A TRADE

DANCE NAKED

Been there, done that.
Holy fuck

Welcome to Sexytropolis City, we just pulled off a great deal

Really?

I think the Mets got the best of this one. Heilman, Chavez and Smith for Putz, Reed and Green?

Adavantage, Omar.

Actually, yeah.

But the Mariners still did quite well.

And 4 minor leaguers.
Well at that point I didn't realize Valbuena was part of it, but we still came out ahead
Are we positive Chavez is ours?
Offical sites have it that way.
It makes more sense if he goes to Cleveland.
No kidding

I mean, it’s neat to add another guy I wanted us to get, but what?

Crossing my fingers

But if we get Chavez there’s really no downside here at all

Can I ask what's great about Chavez?

I look at him and I see a 30 year old who hasn’t done a whole lot.

Awesome defense
No gaping platoon split

(I think)

Ah

Now I’m remembering that postseason catch…

Wicked awesome.
Baker says we're getting him too

It think it’s legit

THUNDER! (ah aha aha ah ah aha ah aha ah)

I don’t know if we were supposed to but every time THUNDER came up I yelled J! J!

Chavez doesn't excite me
He's a much better 4th OF than Reed.
Sure

But having a good 4th OF is low on my list of priorities.

Get better where you can get better

Chavez is icing

Not a bad idea to get one thrown in though
Thunderstruck is an awesome kind of requiem for the departure of an awesome Mariner.
shit, now that you mention it

With JJ leaving, I need a new ring tone.

I'm keeping it. I loved JJ, but love AC/DC more.
Okay that just made me really sad.
I said goodbye to Good JJ long ago
Even though he was bad this year it was still a blast when he came in.
Bah

Write a really long trade analysis and can’t submit it because you all crashed our server again. Jerks.

Sorry.

I checked USSM, saw the server was down, and thus came here.

It was thunderstruck...

Got to get all of these out of my system…

600 comments here

be glad we took as much strain away from USSM as we did

I know where you can submit it!
Fangraphs?
I made the same joke to Jeff by email
I stole it from him in the other thread
Burnt Orange Report.
Also:

This wouldn’t be a problem if you wrote a political blog…

I swear I only tried to load the page once.
I set up a bot to auto-refresh because I hate competition
great deal for the Ms but...

god damn it I’m gonna miss JJ. I had that unconditional love for him similar to the average fan’s love for Willie. I’m half-depressed, half-excited

This will be me when Beltre goes.
It's times like this that my anger over the Bedard trade returns
dammit, didn't mean to hit send

… going on… I was about to say, the number of talented youth on this team would have been insane.

Also our previous trades with Cleveland.

Sorry if this has been posted:

It seems the current three-team trade proposal between the Mariners, Mets and Indians, involving J.J. Putz, came together after another three-team effort fell apart. That prior effort involved the Mariners, Tigers and Tampa Bay Rays.
In that proposal, the Tigers would have kicked first baseman Jeff Larish into the pot, but not outfielder Matt Joyce. No word on whether the Rays would have sent someone to Seattle, but the M’s wound up walking away. At that point, the Tigers turned around and dealt Joyce to the Rays for starter Edwin Jackson.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/12/10/previous_threeway_deal_had_col.html

You're

also getting Jason Vargas.

And Jeff, answer your fucking phone.

Gutierrez should be our CF

And if you disagree, then just copy and paste this link in your browser. http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806092880532&c_id=cle

god

he doesn’t even take a good angle to that and he gets it

ridiculous

From Baker...

“As well, they get three more minor leaguers from the Mets, right handed pitcher Maikel Cleto, outfielder Ezequiel Carrera and left handed pitcher Jason Vargas.”

It's a freaking killing

You guys got a ton for Putz. Way to leverage our need for bullpen arms that don’t suck.

Also, I think you will have the greatest outfield defense of all time with Endy, Gutierrez and Ichiro out there.

Winn, Cameron, Ichiro will be tough to top
This may be sacrilege

but I trust GMZ with minor leaguers more than even Fontaine. The more prospects we get in this trade, the better.

Hmmm.

I don’t see it as sacrilege. My thoughts on “Saint Fontaine” have been spelled out somewhat clearly here. He’s far from perfect, and I trust Zduriencik more myself, too.

This is Ezequiel Carrera.

At least it's not Ezequiel Astacio
That would have ruled.
LOL astacio is uggs
Holy fucking shit

3 more propspects, If this is true GMZ just pulled off a robbery.

Are the worth a shit?
In my worthless opinion, they're nothing too exciting but not totally terrible either.
`

Cleto
Carrera

Vargas

Hey, Cleto is 19.

That makes things a bit more interesting.

Looks like Vargas is roster filler
Wow.

Vargas helps solve out lack of bullpen lefties problem.
Cleto’s a reasonably interesting young arm who was competent, but not dominating in a league he was too young for.
Carrera’s a young left-handed outfield. Not much else I know about him/

I LEAVE THE COMPUTER FOR 2 HOURS AND THIS HAPPENS

HUZZZZAH 1

Good night with GU smacking the Cougs and this trade.

Win.

I feel happy!

This feeling…. it’s so foreign…..

It’s like Morrow’s 1-hitter all over again.

Suddenly

I want Fields signed.

I'd rather have the pick.
I'd rather have Morrow start
Has nothing to do with Fields
I disagree

Then again, GMZ knows whether he wants Morrow in the pen or not. I trust he’ll do what’s best.

I figure making Heilman the closer may calm him down because

Promotion!

I just went from pissed to stoked to pissed to FUCK YES THIS IS AWESOME
I am still nonplussed.
It isn't anything spectacular

but that’s for the Beltre trade.

Clarifying

The trade is spectacular. I’m very pleased.
I meant that none of the players are A-level. That is for when we trade Adrian Beltre.

There's just too much to process.

Did we just trade 4 guys and get back 7?

If you factor in the Bedard trade, we're only down by 1.

This is like a baseball mogul trade

We need to figure out a way to break the financial AI.
We did not rape them

but it’s a lot better then a Bavasi trade and does help us out

My brain still can’t accept that Endy Chavez is good though

Lets put it this way

Endy Chavez is a defensive fucking god. Thou shalt appreciate him.

visitor from Royals Review

and Franklin Gutierrez looks like Endy, Jr. Except he’s familiar with this “hitting” all the kids are raving about.

I hate you all.

I believe it but my brain doesn't
I hate his guts
but now if he hurts the Cardinals in the postseason, it will be in the World Series.
Scott Spiezio won me the World Series

I’ll get over it.

Being pessimistic for the sake of being pessimistic?
No.

Nonplussed doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means.

Dictionary.com says you're right.
Nonplussed does not mean disappointed.
Fuck. My emotions are running the gamut. Sorry you won't be singing Thunderstruck anymore, Silas, but we just made a great deal.

Can I keep the JJ poster up?

this team will not score a lot of runs but will catch every fucking ball hit into the outfield
Suddenly Jarrod Washburn really, really wants to stay in Seattle next year...
Suddenly, I'm a little excited for Jarrod Washburn starts
But how much is this greatly-improved OF defense really going to impact him?

I know he’s an extreme fly-ball pitcher, but still.

Remember when Ryan Franklin won 17 games for us and everyone thought he as a great pitcher?
Oh God, you were like eight this happened, huh?
At least I was in middle school...

I think…What year was that?

Franklin won 11 games in 2003.

But that’s the most wins he ever had in a season.

Are you thinking Pineiro? This was in the four-year span where I pretty much stopped paying attention to baseball, so I don’t remember it well.

Maybe he is remembering Paul Abbott
Fuck, it must have been Abbott

for some reason I always mix those two up

The same way having a great outfield helped him in Anaheim, I imagine.

So . . . he’ll get a big contract after 2009. My guess is with the Reds.

the minor leaguers we got

They don’t look too bad. Obviously Carp is the prize of the group, but Astacio looks like a good, speedy outfielder who knows how to take a walk, and Vargas looks like a decent loogy candidate.

Carrera, you mean.

Not Astacio.

Polarizing Trade

Seems like half the M’s fans like this and half hate this.

I think it’s a solid trade. At first I hated it knowing how poorly Gutierrez hit last year but then I remembered he is a pretty damn good defender.

The other pieces are also solid. Heilman could start or close and it wasn’t too long ago that he was a pretty good setup man. Either way he’s another piece we could flip for valve later on. And getting 4 interesting though not spectular minor leaguers is also pretty solid.

Who hates this trade?
The entire KJR staff and their listeners

but they don’t count.

So, idiots, then, right?
Pretty much, yes.
Let's just say Baker's commenters have a different view

Or, what Goose said

I initially hated this trade

but once I saw the defense! part of it I realized it was good

I initially hated this trade

but once I read what Dave and Jeff had to say about it I realized it was good, seeing as I get virtually all my baseball opinions from them.

thats what everyone does

But no one will admit it

Many of my MC folks are against this. I'm trying to talk sense into them.

Uphill battle.

I can see why, defense doesn't jump off the page like an offensive line.

I’m looking forward to watching these guys roam the outfield.

but, but ....

KJR says we should be really disappointed in Zduriencik’s first deal.

KJR needs to have Dave on more often so people will be less stupid.
Call them up and tell them to go fuck themselves
I want to run up to the Gasman and hit him squarely in the face with an Endy Chavez bobblehead.
This is why I said that Z wont be the GM when we win but he will be the reason
He'a bald Paul DePodesta?
I get the opinion that Z can't swear and says dog gummit alot
Z has people skills.

DePo, not so much.

KJR promoted Ian Furness and demoted Dave Grosby.

Groz was pretty much the only one with knowledge on that whole staff.

I pray that Groz takes a job at KIRO.
well, not really.

Groz was the one whose contract was up just as KJR was ready to retrench.

So we're trading Heilman, right?
Not right away
Hopefully.
Well...

we are kinda short on fungible bullpen arms right now.

True

but Heilman wants to start, so if we could give him + say Halman for a couple decent bullpen arms that would be great

The fuck?

Why would you deal away Halman for relief help?

If it were multiple pieces of really good relief help, yes
We're not winning anything in 2009.
So Heilman+ a C+ prospect then
My guess is that he gets Koch'd to a dumb team in 2010
also I am wasted right now I

as classes ended tonight so M’s players == >God and other teams players =<Mike Morse

good english. you earned it
or I'm vastly underrating Heilman and Halman
To quote JI, he's Aaron Heilman.

Whoc ares what he wants?

Did the Mets ever make him the closer?

I’d say “sorry, we’re full up with starters, but we have this relief ace job open”. Better him than Beluga Tits.

Appropriate that perhaps the final TwSG was him going crazy.
I can't wait until next Tuesday now.

That climax was pretty spectacular. Can’t wait for the denouement…

I don't see how people think Z could've done better than this...

I mean come on, he not only made us better as of right now, but he brought in some prospects as well. And atleast now you can say the mariners are good at SOMETHING. (outfield defense) Instead of nothing, like last year.

People don't know how to properly evaluate defense.

Strike that, people don’t want to look at defense as part of a roster move.

This is encouraging, I'd like to think Zduriencik is building a team that fits Safeco.

Bavasi just… I don’t know. Didn’t fucking get it.

Especially for a possibly broken reliever.
FWIW, Vargas missed all of 2008 with a hip injury.

So, you know, we’re cornering the market on those.

Jason Vargas has girl parts?
He was faking because his agent told him to
He was faking so he could get traded to the Mariners to LEAD THEM TO THE WORLD SERIES!!





Oh yeah, I brought it back.

I wonder how many recs our HOF memes would have gotten on 2.0
I thought Z went for sluggo OF'ers?
I hear that Beltre/Clement for Braun deal is still on the table
I heard we're trading Putz for Fielder.

And Rasmus may be involved.

We have enough outfielders
You can't trade Raben until a year after you draft him.
You can't trade kickers or punters at all.
I rather us keep Hass and hope that can make the transition from the WCO a few years down the line.
Hass is 33 and has an injury history.

And he’s never been good on long passes that are the Air Coryell norm.

We got Durant!
Normal "fuck Clay Bennett and David Stern" line here.
Say what you want about the man's coaching ability

but Willingham will bring the integrity that the program desperately needs right now

And Jim Mora is the next coach of the Hawks!

so we won’t miss a beat…

I know Shaun had a lot of carries, but he's the fucking MVP. We HAVE to re-sign him.
I'm thinking its going to go Freddy, Blackley, Nageotte, Felix, Johnson
What about Madritsch?

::sobs::

You can when you're the home team and you change the rules.
I miss Zduriencik already :(
You can't have him back!
can we at least get a sandwich pick for him

you guys wouldn’t even lose anything

Only if we get a shortstop to replace our old JJ!

And that Gallardo guy. He looks like he has veteran grit.

he's pretty scrappy too
We'll give yoiu a sandwich from Denny's

Monte Cristo, with extra jelly.

This confused me until I realized you must be a BrewCrew fan..
I figured the avatar made it kinda obvious

but hey you never know I guess

I turned off avatars on day one of 2.0....
A lot of people turn those off.
Big threads load like molasses for me if I leave them on.
BCB is a little lower traffic than here.

The largest thread I saw there was about 700.

My computer is also 1.8 Ghz, so that probably doesn't help much.

I think the newer computers could probably launch a potato into space on processing power alone, but I haven’t looked at speeds lately. I’d probably just cry.

GHz aren't everything.

But if you’re talking like that, it’s probably outdated enough that it wouldn’t matter.

Mac G5. It's gritty and has a lot of hustle. Pretty good situational hitter as well.

It’s 4 years old, in computer years that’s right on the edge of old I think.

It's for a good cause!
ok, straighten Elise out on the trade, Churchill
Go Jason Go.
Jason isn't real thrilled.

He thinks they should have gotten something more for JJ.

He did point out the importance of defense.

Dammit Jason.
he could have been a bit more emphatic.

and Elise took it that she should still be disappointed. she supports the rebuilding, but thinks they should have gotten Mike Carp and a couple of ‘better’ minor league prospects — and she missed his explanation that Green & Reed are easily replaceable parts

Alright Groz go call Dave and bring him on tomorrow.
Well, if it had been JJ=>Joyce straight up, it would have been better.

You figure JJ HAS to be more valuable to the Tigers than Edwin Jackson, though the Tigers were stupid enough to trade Joyce for Jackson, so who knows.

So Maikel Cleto

Our answer to Chone?

Cleto is at least a Latin player.
We have a Mayckol too.

He may be up from the VSL soon.

There's a Maykel that used to play for the Sounders as well
My Tuesdays are ruined.
He moved to New York, he's not dead
Tell that to Robert.
Que?
Oh now I get it.
I don't.
Too bad.
I love you, Robert. You fucking crack me up.
I love the noine minutesin between
Fridays with Franklin!
Mondays with Mike!
what
I get my opinions on baseball talent from people who know more than me about baseball talent

and hey look I’m not ashamed of it

and hey, I trust them more because they know more than me

If they started talking about highways I’d chase my intuition but since I know J/M/G/Dave/DMZ know more than me I’ll listen to them

i'll agree with that
Is this a reply fail to the Churchill and Elise comment? Or is this a big whoosh right over my head?
No this is me being drunk and all my friends saying the Mariners got raped

and me saying “Look, people who know more than you do say they got a good deal, and they have good reason to back it all up, so I’m rolling with them”

Oh gotcha. My friends hated Winn and were happy to see him leave. I don't really talk to any of those people anymore.
The Foppert/JoeJessica deal was not horrible though
I've been listening to nothing but Thunderstruck for the last few hours

This is getting unhealthy…

Quick comment on those prospects from NY

“Cleto is a 19-year-old with a 94-97 mph fastball and has a potientially bright future as either a starter and closer and Carerra looks to be a Juan Pierre with more power”

We really gave up a fuck-ton in this deal

I hope Putz is worth it.

Normally I like BTF's transaction analysis

But not this time

Jeremy Reed on Google

Jeremy Reed is #1 on Google Hot Trends right now. First and last time for everything!

http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends

haha

how did you even notice that.

This is all the Mets fans trying to figure out who the hell he is.

RSS feed

Me <= nerd

It looks that all the people the Mets got are in the top 20.

I suppose if you have 8 million people googling these guys at once, that’ll do it.

Number 51 is surprisingly specific
And JJ is number 10

while Sean Green takes number 31

JJ or J J

JJ may be 10, but J J is 49.

Alright everyone, I gotta actually get some work done tonight

So I am gonna check out for awhile.. What a fun night though!

I love the Mariners
Lopez and Yuni are the next to go
This move basically established that Lopez will be the starter this season!

and Yuni is untouchable

The New Flagship Station of the Ms

Sports
Yankees land Sabathia, a $161 million man

The New York Yankees landed a big prize for their new ballpark. CC Sabathia and the Yankees agreed Wednesday to the framework of a $161 million, seven-year contract after general manager Brian Cashman dashed off to California to meet with the pitcher and his wife.
updated 1 min. ago

    * Yankees land Sabathia, a $161 million man (updated 1 min. ago)
    * Putz goes to Mets in 3-team trade with Indians (updated 18 min. ago)
    * No. 4 Gonzaga beats Washington State 74-52 (updated 28 min. ago)

Way to go KIRO.
But hey, at least they have Bill Swartz blogging for them!
HIRE DRAYER ALREADY
my hope is that his missing on this trade finally gets their atention
and man is it painful.
as far as I can tell

their Sports Director (who sent himself to the Winter Meetings) spent his whole time sightseeing, going to shows and occasionally going through the lobby and talking to those former Mariner FO guys he recognised.

LATE

AND I MEAN REALLY LATE

oh, I've been bitching about it for the last week....
May Putz need Tommy John Surgery
What? Fuck that/you.
I hope JJ smacks for the Mets

but that’s about the only player I want to do well for a NY team.

Fuck you in the eye with a squirrel

May JJ own all manner of ass.

Not a squirrel. How about a nutria?
Only one hesitation....

This doesn’t improve our incredibly stagnant offense one bit.

That’s next. We need a DH, and we need power (or at least, gap power.)

Who do we go after now? What’s left to trade away? Beltre?

The gain in OF defense offsets the loss of Raul's bat.
I agree with you...

But even with Raul’s bat we didn’t score nearly enough runs.

I guess the real answer is “Hey, we’re rebuilding…gotta take the pain for a little while longer.” Can’t fix the world in one trade.

But it's growing pains instead of the pains of death!
The Mariner defense was really, REALLY awful last year, as were 1B/DH+an OF.

It’s quite possible that we’re better on offense AND defense minus Raul, Sexson, Reed and Turbo, with Gutierrez, Chavez, Shelton and Branyan taking their playing time.

Runs saved on defense = runs saved on offense.

Also, consider that Branyan and Shelton > Turbo and Sexson.

Also, consider that we just shaved 5 million and change off the payroll. We’re not done yet.

er, runs ADDED on offense
Runs saved on defence for a rebuilding team that needs to pump up pitcher value > runs gained on offence
Carlos Silva trade next winter!
plz
Sure, that too.

I actually think we might end up getting rid of one of the Trio of Suck by spring training, truth be told.

yeah I think so too

All bets on Washburn.

My guess will Silva could be gone by July 31st.

If the outfield helps him out enough.

Stop being too smart.
Chavez in LF

Wlad/Kenji/Clement platoon?

wasnt Maikal Cleto that movie with George Clooney?
Putz saving his anger for later...

Baker

"It’s a new challenge and I’m excited about it,‘’ Putz said. "I’m going to a new team that’s going to be very competitive. Frankie’s a great closer and with Sean Green going as well, we should have a great bullpen.’’
well

“It’s going to be a challenge” in the sports world = “#$$%#%%#!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Yeah, he must be real pissed about leaving the Mariners and going to pitch for a competetive team in New York...
Hurts his FA payoff
Not when he steals the closer role from K-Rod

by beating his head in with a bat.

he already has said

he doesn’t wanna be a set-up man.

So in other words...

K-rod might end up dead in the next few days?

I don't see how you made this conclusion.
So this seems like each team wins.

Incredible.

I love these types of trades.
Bullshit

I like screwing the other team over

I like the Indians and am indifferent towards the Mets.
It still feels good to go to their blog and gloat after the screw job.
We have experienced this enough that I wish to not inflict it upon others
There's always time for us to lose in the future.
Omar Minaya must have just watched the 2007 Allstar game
Isn't Castillo still their 2nd baseman?
I'm a little concerned that Heilman's tRA has increased in each of his last 4 years (3.21 in '05 to 5.07 in '08).

And his walk rate shot through the roof last year.

luckily

he’ll rack up saves and be a commodity at the deadline

Walk rate and K rate went bonkers.

Lost some groundballs. I’m guessing he was trying to pitch up more with more fastballs and… well basically had your usual “power pitcher” results.

He added a slider and couldn't locate it.
Messed up knee

And with all the over-use that Willie put him through, he needed to heal, he never got that chance.

If he’s healthy, that change-up is devastating. He’s a two pitch pitcher but they’re two awfully good ones.

If the Ms let him try to make the rotation, he can bring back the curveball that Rick Peterson made him drop, which IIRC was actually a good pitch.

We have about 8 people in the rotation right now.
7

Morrow is the closer now. /Leftover pessimism

AC/DC

Has never made me so sad. :(

So i shouldn't tell you i got

6th row tickets for the show in Houston Sunday night?

Omar Minaya

Just traded for 3 white players…

One of the conditions is that JJ has to change one of his J's to Jesus.
Joseph Jason Jesus Putz
Silly Omar

Did he say he wanted Green? He really meant he wanted Silva. Sorry for the mixup, Mets. Hey, since we like you guys, we’ll just give you Silva for free. You can keep Green. No, really, it’s fine.

NO GIVESIES BACKSIES.

holy shit your right
I thought Sean Green was an OG.
Newsday Reporting M's Actually Get Seven Players

Boy you really are late.

I still dont understand any Star Trek stuff.

I know there is a Spock with ears and something to do with William Shatner. Oh, and there is a guy who has a face shaped like an Iguana’s back. Thats about it.

I'm probably part of the "Dennis Miller Ratio" here...

But I laughed. :)

The best part is Data's reaction.
Well Shit.

I am still keeping my avatar.

Very courageous to the 5 people who have them enabled. : )
Hmmm...

The Mariners are minus the following 2008 salaries:

Sexson
Raul
Turbo
Putz

And they’ve only added maybe 5 million back or so with Heilman, Branyan, etc, right?

So, basically, they just cleared 25 million off the decks, and didn’t get appreciably worse as a team (in fact, arguably better). Not bad. They could make a nice signing and STILL save money on 2008.

Beltre & Felix!!!!

Also, give that Bedard kid some spare change to stick around a few years on the cheap.

Yeah, plus Bedard's arbitration will have to come out of that.

However, they could still ship off (please, please, please) the Washburninator or Beluga Tits.

My dad loved Batista the year he won 16 games....
You make a good point...

Let’s negate everything by bringing back the “Griffey Nostalgia Tour 2009!”

What?

I said a nice signing.

Rocco Baldelli, for instance.

Someone call Copacino + Fujikado and tell them to cancel the Putz ad for '09.

This trade

How did I miss this?

I hated Lazy Sunday, but this and the Space Olympics crack me up.

I wonder who's gonna be our #3 and 4 hitters?

It seems like we’ve got a whole bunch of guys that hit 1,2,5,6,7,8,9 in most lineups, but noone who is a legit #3 or 4 hitter. Is Zduriencik thinking of picking up another bat, or are we gonna trade Beltre and get more of the same types of guys?
   Because Beltre’s about the only one who you could say maybe could be a 3 or 4 guy.

That's the type of thought process that brought us Sexson.
Why does it matter?
Want some butter for your roles?

Or was that a really fucking lame joke.

Yes but I laughed.
If only it was December 10 instead of the day before Opening Day, and we could still make roster moves.

And it’s not like we’ve dropped something like 25 million off the payroll since the end of the season.

Have a little patience. The 2009 team’s not done yet. Plus I think that the best case

scenario of a team rebuild is a long shot at best, so a somewhat flawed M’s team that goes from 62 wins to 82 wins without a good cleanup hitter should make us pretty damned happy.

I have no idea how Sean Green is going to survive in the city that never sleeps.
Go crazy, of course.
He'll make up for everyone else's lack of sleep.
But the hookers!
Didn't say he'd be sleeping alone, did I?
Bavasi brought us Sexson, Zduriencik in the same thought process would not make the same mistake.
"We need a #3 and #4 hitter." is not a good thought process.

We just need a better overall team.

Lopez might bat at one of those spots.

Then he can rack up stats thanks to Ichiro and get a 12 year contract with us. : D

Because he wouldn't think 'What we really need is a #3 or 4 hitter'

It’s a fundamentally unsound way of building a roster. Bavasi wasn’t bad at tactic moves, he was terrible at determined strategies, because his obsession with roles led him to conclude that we needed fat singles hitters for DH, etc.

Congrats.

I’m not used to this site having good moves of their own to discuss.

I'm going out to get drunk and dance in the streets.
Yea, it's kind of odd.

Funny how I pondered what Rays fans talked about since they didn’t have to bitch about shitty management. I guess this is what its like.

DRB is dead to us now.
One move left to make.

Yuni for Joyce.

Too many outfielders!
Putz and Green were on the decline

This trade is a steal. Good job ripping off Franklin Gutiérrez from the ever declining Indians.

How in God's name was Green on the decline?
Maybe in the relief arms are short lived and unpredictable kind of decline way?

I dunno.

This is true.

I would laugh if his arm exploded on opening day next year.

I just have to say this.

Shit, GMZ is crafty. Its almost like I am in disbelief, I am so used to incompetence of Bavasi and Co.

It's amazing, but this is the first time I've really been excited about Seattle sports since Durant...

I’m sending Zduriencik a Christmas gift.

How about....

1.Chavez LF
2. Gutierrez CF
3.Ichiro RF
4. Beltre 3B
5.Lopez 2B
6.Branyan 1B
7.Balentien DH
8.Clement C
9.Betancourt SS

  I dunno, just throwin out ideas… It’s probably gonna be pretty ugly no matter how you slice it.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't.
You seem to think tomorrow is opening day.

Fortunately, it’s not. The roster’s not done yet.

This.

Patience young padawan.

Let Wakamatsu decide the lineup....
How about this

Gutierrez CF
Ichiro RF
Beltre 3RD
Griffey DH
Lopez 2b
Branyan 1B
Clement C
Betancourt SS
Chavez LF

Roster's not set, doesn't matter

Griffey blows

Griffey

Clearly is not the same as he was but he is still a quality major leaguer and would be a nice addition to a rebuilding M’s team. He would help the young guys on the team. Great guy

PROVEN VETERAN
Hey, let's sign Ken Griffey

Not Junior, Senior. Great guy, proven veteran, perfect guy to have in the clubhouse. I bet he could play LF or DH.

Hall of Fame talent
Has pulse.
Let's sign Goose Gossage!

Clearly is not the same as he was but he is still a quality major leaguer Hall of Fame Talent and would be a nice addition to a rebuilding M’s team. He would help the young guys on the team. Great guy

OUCH

My heart hurts.

We're not saying he wasn't good before.

We’re just saying he’s not a Major League player now.

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/6/4/546195/three-guys-who-agree-on-ev

Read this. These numbers taken over time show the decline of a great player. It happens, nobody’s body will last forever, and he pushed it harder than most.

I loved Junior when he was here, but he’s a detriment to any team now. (Maybe not the Orioles/Royals/Marlins)

Also keep in mind that the condition of holding Wlad back in AAA is now not possible.
This:Accuracy

Griffey:!Worst everyday player in the majors

He'd only help the young guys by comparison.

Or by example, as in “How not to age gracefully.”

No, he's not. His defense is so bad as to make him a DH only player, and his bat is in serious decline overall

and cannot be used against LHP.

Plus, we're likely playing a 1B and C platoon already.

Unless the AL is going to go to a 30 man roster, we’re going to run out of roster spots platooning guys.

Grffiey blocks young players

costs money
sucks at baseball
panders to the sad pathetic nostalgia demographic

Pass

weaton4life?
Mariners are on the rise if they can keep making deals like this one.
I really

Like the direction of the new management in town. It would be awesome to see a winner back in Seattle after these many years of sub par play.

They need to bring

Griffey back now.

Are you trying to be annoying?
Fuck Griffey
Dude
I know it's an unpopular position around here but fuck 'em

he left us to live in Cincinnati. That’s one of the biggest crapholes in all of America

You know you wanna sing the Cincinnati Song.
Oh my god.
Shocking isn't it?
What the hell happened to this thread?

I was only gone for five minutes.

It seemed like no one had been giving anyone any reason for random Griffey hate for awhile, and then this past month the crazy "bring him back" talk started again.

that came out way too fucking big
Thing to be hidden,

this

I like this one.
I'm glad I stumbled on this.

E5 is a troll that we kicked out of LGT. Yeah he’s just trying to fuck with you.

So this is why Jeff is afraid of being good.
burnt he tree
needs more 1111!!11!!s
All I can really say is "Thanks JJ".

He really was the highlight of the 07 season. I went to many ballgames that year, and whenever he came out in the 9th, the whole place went on fire. Definitely striking out Bonds was my favorite moment— also one that I was thankfully there for.

He also gave me something else special- my favorite piece of baseball memorabilia. I was drunk one night, and talked to him through the bullpen fence. I admitted how much of a fan I was (well, I didn’t tell him about my man crush, but close enough), and I asked him if he would sign a ball for me. But not just any signature, I wanted something special… I wanted him to trace his split finger grip on the ball. He chuckled, smiled and agreed to do it. It was awesome.

So, JJ, thanks a lot. I hope you aren’t pissed we traded you.

That's... pretty cool, actually.
Thanks

This is actually kinda choking me up a little. Not because I’m sad, but because it was just a cool moment. I’ll have to find the pic of him holding the grip while Oliveros did the tracing.

Why do I see a penis?

What was he trying to do there? Did he just like… sneeze really bad when doing that or something?

Did you read it?
I think a Rorschach ink blot test may reveal something interesting.
No. That would help wouldn't it?

I still see penis, though.

You should meet Robert.
Maybe not so much?
I still see penis, though.
sometimes a banana is just a banana
Thats awesome!
Best piece of memorabilia I've seen you lucky so and so! : )
That is awesome.
Sweet deal.

J.J. is going to be missed, but he’s taking one for the team.

fuck no more Tuesday with greeen

no more 2 faces and go crazy

How drunk are you right now?
Apparently Very!
About as much as me, I presume.
You drink too?

I was all excuted for a ll drunk party but everybody was in the jj place insted but i jsut found out

Yeah. I drink holy water.

By the case.

quite because I didnt eat but just a hot pocket for lunch today

and had 6 blkue moons at bowling

Who's hot pocket did you have for lunch.
i get it is that a sex joking

whatever

Zduriencik on KJR right now
Highlights?
When I was a kid I enjoyed that magazine.
Goofus and Gallant were kind of cool.
He is doing this to improve OF defense.

It’s like the anti-Bavasi (cries)

“We might not be finished.”

Oh my God he actually recognizes the importance of defense.

Where the hell am I?

I'm waiting for the Adam Dunn signing to bring us back to reality.
Why?

Enjoy this.

I don't seriously think we'll sign Adam Dunn

In fact, a small part of me is starting to think that he’s becoming undervalued since teams are beginning to realize the importance of defense. I’m sure someone’s going to give him a 3-4 year contract, but what if teams are only willing to give him a 1 year deal? Very unlikely, but that’s when it gets interesting.

I know, I'm just excited to be excited and I think everyone else should be too.
Trust me, I am very excited about this.

Even more than I’d be if it were Putz for Matt Joyce straight up.

I’m trying not to think about losing Valbuena, though.

I love listening to him talk about the minor leaguers

he actually mentions how playing in a specific league relates to a player’s numbers…

he still says they haven’t determined what will happen with Morrow— he wants the coaching staff to get their hands on him, and see the player.

they talked Fields this morning with Boras (among other topics) - not negotiations, just pleasantries

Puckett brought up the other rumors

and Z says you talk about a lot of players, but that they were not involved with trades for Ankiel or Fielder

It's going to be exciting seeing what else he can pull off.

A SS and maybe a big power hitter would be great.

Milton Bradley!
Rocco Baldelli!
Despite the cost, I'd spend the money for Bradley
My problem with Bradley is simple:

I hate multi-year deals for guys who probably will miss 1/3rd of the playing time during the deal.

It’s one thing for J.D. Drew to do a deal with the Red Sox, but J.D. Drew is like Cal Ripken compared to Milton Bradley. If he gets a 3 year deal, we’d be doing well if he played 300-330 out of 486 games. That’s pretty bad.

He's psyched about Carrera and Cleto

Said impressed with Carerra’s extra base power, and FSL is not an easy league to hit in.

(.705 league OPS, BTW)

And Cleto hits 98, apparently.
He called Jeff Clement *Matt*

Which confused me at first – I wasn’t paying much attention and had to rewind to verify that he slipped up. For a second there I thought we’d picked up Matt Clement as well.

I was listening online and the feed died before he came on...
He actually gets it

This isn’t a mistake. WE DID GOOD WITHOUT A MISTAKE

You mean...

We’re at the top-right corner of DePo’s chart?

EVEN BETTER TOP LEFT CORNER!

(God I’m specially challenged)

specially?
'specially

It’s a contraction.

No, I JI'd that word.
This comment deserves a gold star.
Please let Tuesdays with Sean Green continue

That’s all I’m going to say.

KJR internet is dead
Hey all

Mets fan here. Just wondering what your perspectives are on what we got back. I’ve been wanting Putz since the second I found out he might be on the market, but I was curious if you all think he can bounce back to ‘06-’07 levels. And I know pretty much nothing about Reed or Green, so any insight would be helpful.

My take on what you guys got from us:

Chavez – one of the best defensive outfielders I’ve ever seen. His catch in the 2006 NLCS was without a doubt the high point of the post-Piazza Mets, and probably the 3rd best Mets-moment of my lifetime. In ‘06 he was a jack-of-all trades, filling in at every outfield spot and giving us more than enough offense to go with his defense (101 OPS+ and GG caliber defense ftw). In ’07 his offense regressed a bit, and then last year pretty much fell off a cliff, and he was pretty marginalized once Fernando Tatis started hitting and Dan Murphy came up. Seeing him pinch hit for the pitcher and then not even play the field the next inning was infuriating. I’m happy to see him freed to a team where he can roam the outfield a lot more than we gave him the chance to.

Heilman – while Chavez gave us the high point of 2006, Heilman might have given us the low point, with the home run he gave up off to Yadier Molina. I’m not a particularly big fan of Heilman, due to his constant whining about wanting to start and the fact that he cost us the chance at the World Series, then was unreliable down the stretch in ‘07 and absolutely awful last year. That said, he’s undeniably talented, and I’ve been saying for months that I think he’ll bounce back next year as long as he’s no longer pitching in NY. I would expect a mid 3’s ERA, about a strikeout an inning, and a WHIP around 1.10-1.20.

JJ and Green

Are on the Decline and Reed is a nice fill in bench player.

How is Green on the decline?
How are JJ and Green on the decline?
What's the Decline and how do I get on it?
Provide evidence of this.
But repetition makes things right
There's also the fact that repetition makes things right.
Provide evidence of this.
Works out for both sides

Putz is a good gamble because of his contract, Gren and Reed have their uses, and Carp is the only player the Mets are going to miss.

JJ's a gamble. If his ineffectiveness last year was just costocondritis and he recovers, great

He’s one of the top relievers in baseball. If not, you’re paying $6M for a broken-down former closer.

Green is an effective reliever with an absurd GB%. Lefties tend to torch him and he’ll have some bad streaks here and there, but he’s been a really effective player over the past couple of years.

Reed is our version of Endy Chavez, I guess. Maybe a little bit worse. Nothing particularly exciting unless he can somehow learn to hit.

Two names: Castillo and Delgado.

He better hope he can get the righties out in front of his pitches.

Reed

Great minor league hitter for average (close to .400, was once a top 50 type prospect), hasn’t translated to the majors. Pretty good defensive OF, but inexplicably just has no clue how to steal bases, even though he would seem to have the speed to do it. Can’t hit lefties, is OK versus righties. Not much power.

He needs a change of scenery. When he came over in the Freddy Garcia deal, everyone expected him to be the CF of the future. Didn’t pan out, but he could still turn out to be useful. Learning to steal bases would really add to his value – he could be a fourth OF, pinch runner, platoon player in the NL. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him be a valuable role player in NY.

nice
Sounds like this is the rare deal that works out for both sides (except Cleveland, I don't really get their role in this)
Cleveland got a couple of useful players for spare parts (for them)
I'll miss you JJ.

You were always great for a laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGb28uVjio

Woah, did I get banned?

Where did my comments go?

I'm guessing a few subthreads were hidden

None of them started by you.

Trying to keep the threads clean
First Thought Was

We gave up a lot to give up a lot. My second thought is that I really really really like Gutierrez. His defense is well publicized and while he will never walk the world his bat has some serious upside in a Torri Hunter way. He was better at 24 then Hunter was although he did regress this year obviously.

I have no interest in Chavez I think his bat is miserable and his defense is overated although admittedly PMR and UZR both disagree with me. The Mets inevetiably sold low on Heilman

Minus the other prospects which I don’t know much about I like the deal for the Indian a lot and the Mets kind of. The Indians are very good at talent acquisition and Gutierrez was very expendable because of Ben Franisco and one of them had to go. Joe Smith is an excellent ROOGY and Valbuena is a decent prospect.

For the Mets I consider Reed and Endy to be a straight sawp with defense for a little upside and youth. Joe Smith for Sean Green a straight swap (albiet the M’s selling low on Sean Green) leaving the deal as Mike Carp and Aaron Heilman for JJ. They sold low on Heilman and Carp isn’t a second tier 1st baseman (1% John Olerud 15% Lyle Overbay) but at the same time they got a lot of value in shoring up their weakest point

Jesus what a buizare nuight

I go get piss durnk and bowling and vome home to see tha jj is gone. tToo bad because i like him and Greeen but we are beter now

Doesn't it seem like we are a far cry from these days?

Sorry, that was way too big.
Something like that probably has to big.

In which case, a link is probably best.

Yea, I think I did it in like mid-2007

Took me a long time to photoshop because I had to shop out all the japanese words that were surrounding the text bubbles.

has to BE big
You know, I could've made this gold if I had made in 2008.

O well, it’s still pretty funny.

I'm listening to

nobody Putz JJ in the corner as we speak in rememberance of his time as an M

Fuck it. I'll bat DH.
Can you bat 4th?
My bad. I did that without thinking. That was not necessary.
He;s gritty and will di what needed to win
This is true. And I'm a Washington native willing to sleep with Rick Rizzs for the right amount of attention.

I warn you, though. I only speak Japanese to the press. I know, it’s a dichotomy.

4rd
In that case I will take 3nd.
I will 1th
oh shit I missed reply
Your mother is disappointed.
She has biger problems
You're not pregnant again, are you??
I'm a boy and can't nbe pregnat

Silly dude

At first I liked this deal

but thinking about it more I’m not sure. I feel like for the players we gave up, we could have probably gotten guys with higher ceilings. Individually they are nice players but the trade really isn’t impressing me. Not a bad deal but more of a meh.

I do like the methodology behind the trade. Its nice to see thinking which is not severely flawed coming from our FO.

I think we have to keep in mind..

If NY never sees 07 JJ again this becomes quite the haul for the Ms. I’m not saying we should evaluate any trade based on its results, but JJ is an unknown at this point.

I'll put everything I own on JJ never seeing 2007 again.

That year was absolutely insane.

And 2006 was even better!
I'd put a lot of money on JJ never having access to time travel, yes.
I'll take this bet

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