Lookout Landing

me too

Oh my fucking god.

I hate this team. This team needs to die now.

Is there such a thing as Bad Signing Thread Emotion?

If not, there should be.

Holy shit

I mean….you think you’ve finally figured out how retarded a front office is, spent hours and hours bitching about it and figuring you’ve seen the worst.

Bavasi can always surprise you.

Saw it coming a million miles away

don’t count on any of our good vets leaving ever

How can this team

be so bad at evaluating talent? Honestly, how can management be this bad?

So umm who do we get when we trade Clement now?

Also, why does the office always do the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE of what us bloggers request?

Bavasi must carry around a card that reads:

Always do the opposite of what the bloggers say

I'm convinced that the Pepe ad was a dig at us

Thank god for the Seahawks

Field Gulls says sign Mike Wahle. Hawks sign Mike Wahle 2 days later.
Field Gulls says sign T.J. Duckett. Hawks sign Duckett 2 days later.

One front office understands that blogs aren’t just a bunch of nerds but may actually have a point. And strangely enough, the local Seattle team that listens to the blogs…goes to the playoffs every year….weird.

As much credit as we'd like to take

I don’t think there’s a particularly high correlation between listening to blogs and going to the playoffs…

well obviously

I doubt Duckett and Wahle were signed because Field Gulls said so, but it’s nice to see a blog and a front office that have many of the same beliefs in talent evaluation.

Tim Ruskell for God.

He must be like a sub-god

Because if he was a true god, he wouldn’t let this happen.

More money for him

God Ruskell create a rock so massive that he himself could not lift it?

*could

massive failure on all fronts

Phil Hatzenbuehler - April 25, 2008 reply

What. The. Fuck

I did not see this coming. Just goes to show you that Bill Bavasi lives life as if every day is Opposite Day.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

He has officially beaten Brian Sabean. Our 2009-2011 team is going to be abysmal.

no one can beat Sabean

unless they flip Kenji to SF for Bocock.

2010 Mariners = worse than any year with Sabean.

Expect a 50 win team.

I say more.

We’ll get 34 from Felix… I’m confident in 17 more scraped out.

Fett42 - April 25, 2008 reply

We will still have no defense.

Felix = 0-19 with a 1.49 FIP

True.

Fett42 - April 25, 2008 reply

Felix? The guy that Bavasi will let walk?

Because he won’t win any games as a starter?

When Felix leaves I might just completely leave this team until massing FO changes happen

for real

vkut79 - April 25, 2008 reply

Lincoln, Armstrong, Bavasi and Mac

need to be fired. Now.

Kickass

Now this means we can trade Clement for Griffey. Problem solved

This is kinda funny considering there was just a rash of pitchers sort of calling out Kenji

for his catching.

This is not funny.

There is nothing funny about this. This is not even amusing.

Kenji has had one of the most seemingly awful starts to a year ever for starting C

it’s not just the extension, which if they have a plan to start platooning Kenji and Clement and it’s for reasonable money, say $14-16 mil isn’t too horrific, it’s the timing ARGHHHHHHH

Say goodbye to the pitchers I guess.

Although that wouldn’t be such a bad thing I guess. :/.

Move like this will be all the more hilarious

when they lowball Felix and give him the A-Rod treatment.

hahahahaahaha

it’s funny because it’s true!

Thats literally the only thing this team could do in order to get a rise out of me now.

Just an honest question

Maybe I’m wrong, but weren’t we kind of ok with this last season?

Is Clement’s recent progress the reason why this is awful? Or is Kenji really entering a huge decline?

I'd say both, really.

Kenji = old regressing catcher Clement = average 1B/DH

We were not, actually.

We had a whole thread about how we should thank him for his service and open the door for him on his way out.

Horrible timing, Clement has gotten much better

and we don’t even know how much money it is. Plus Joh’s #s haven’t just been bad – he’s looked AWFUL at the plate

Also

My Mariner fandom is at all all-time low right now. As fucked up as this sounds, I miss last seasons enjoyment because this year has been suck after suck.

Anyone consider

that this is a Yamauchi call?

Wow, good point!

I hadn’t though of that at all. You may be right.

Thats what I've been thinking all along

I thought ownership had always hesitated to get involved in baseball decisions

and it was the Lincolns and Armstrongs who were fucking it up

Not when it comes to Japanese players.

With Japanese players, they've been known to step in.

Teej - April 25, 2008 reply

Sasaki in particular

Don't care if it is

it’s one more nail in Bavasi’s coffin (boy does that thing have a lot of nails) either way.

there is no coffin

the mariners don’t bury their “yes” men.

Bavasi is likely ensured a spot in the ownership group forever. He’s helped the team make money, even when the club was craptastic.

I would not want to be drafted by the Mariners if I were any good at baseball...

I would want to be signed by them as a FA in my 30s.

Exactly.

Hey—I’m left-handed. I could probably figure out how to pitch! I’d provide fantastic clubhouse leadership. Pick Me! Pick Me! PIck Me!!!

Why?

They’d trade you to another team where you would thrive anyway. Then you could come back and sign a huge contract to suck in your decline years.

I'm really curious about the dollar figure.

Starting catcher money, or platoon/backup money?

I don't know what I'm going to do if it's more than like $18 mil

and I sincerely hope it’s ~$14M

I wonder if it's too late for me to start making a "Free Clement" sign for tonight?

We should have just traded him to Baltimore

then he could be free like Adam Jones and George Sherrill…

NO

NO MORE FREE ANYBODY SIGNS

FREE KENJI JOHJIMA

That works.

WITH THE PURCHASE OF ONE ARTHUR RHODES OF EQUAL VALUE

I am in favor of this coupon.

Good point.

If it's a cheap contract

and Joh becomes the backup catcher next season, fine.

Unfortunately, we all know Kenji’s extension is going to be an albatross.

I'm not concerned about the $$, really.

I’m not.

It’s probably enough to pay him as their starting catcher for the next 3 years, whether it’s $5 million a season or $8 million. And that’s what the problem is.

I can see a 1+1 deal, maybe, but 3 years is ridiculous!

I doubt the money will be bad

the contract will probably be pretty fair. I still don’t think this is that awful, they could have done something cheaper, but I’m just “meh” on this deal.

I thought it was April Fools Day again...

I can’t believe this fucking bastard. Enough with the whole firing nonsense… Bavasi needs to get shanked!

basebliman - April 25, 2008 reply

I really do wish I was a Rays fan now...

go ahead and change it Jeff

basebliman - April 25, 2008 reply

Hi!

Can we have Clement now?

Depends on how much Al Reyes means to you

We offered last year, you wanted to give us Rob Johnson instead.

Well we wont be need both catchers now!

Edwin Jackson here we come.

Feel free to take him for almost anything.

Take Triunfel

we won’t be needing him

Take Ichiro too

He deserves to play for a winner

and dare I say Felix

BURN THE TREE

DIAF!

I thought about it

but didn’t dare say it for fear of the headline

“Mariners trade prized pitcher Felix Hernandez to Braves for SS Brent Lillibridge and SP Jair Jurrgasdjflens”

that almost made cry

I just threw up into my mouth a bit.

too bold

This comment

made me laugh and cry.

Troy Percival wheeeeee

we’ll even throw in WLAD!

Percival stays. Take Reyes, Glover, Haynes, and Jackson instead. That’s four players instead of one, and three arms, and we all know Bavasi knows his math, 3>1 except for when 1>3.

excet when your trading for a #1 pitcher

Knock yourself out.

We’re not using him. Take Adam Moore too so you have a sweet combo.

Okay - The rationale needs to be figured out here.

One possibility – They know they need Clement’s bat now. They know that if they do that, they basically ruin his chances of being a catcher in the longer run. So they are actually making a decision that, although bad, would make sense and would not quite be as insulting to one’s intelligence as this move appears to be.

OR

Yamauchi was getting his morning “massage” and read a small article in the paper and found out Johjima’s contract was expiring. That prompted him to ask his assistant to find out why a loyal employee like Johjima didn’t already have an extension.

This of course, happening within the last 5 hours.

I know we like to think rationally, but people who own us, typical do what they want with us.

I don't disagree with this.

However, this unfortunately is not an adequate answer to why this was done. That is not a rationale. So if we are trying to think of a reason for this trade, rather than the answer that this is some form of bukkake, that is the only one I can come up with.

I think the constant bukkake references make LL a tad bit more rapey than it needs to be.

It seems to lean a touch more that way everyday.

I must not have been on enough recently.

I have not seen that reference on LL before. My bad for using an overused word.

There's such a thing as too rapey?

I sure would think so.

Creep. (kidding)

_______________________.

The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension. Kenji’s production in the first two years of his MLB career is nothing short of stellar, especially considering the league switch and the position.

3.5 weeks. Yeah, Kenji’s looked lost at the plate, but you can’t tell me that his BABIP will stay where its at. If anything, I’m glad to see that Joh’s struggled so far this season, as perhaps it’ll force him to transcend his main weakness at the plate – drawing a walk or two every now and then. Though the dollar amount hasn’t been leaked, yet – put me in the PRO-EXTENSION camp.

Oh, and I’m all for that DH/C platoon with Jazzy Jeff. Make it so.

Draft pick for letting Kenji walk

is far more valuable than hanging on to an aging catcher.

re: draft pick

you really trust what this org does with even highly-praised draft picks? just wait until we see Aumont become the next brandon morrow.

i’ll take joh, even as a platoon mate.

What, they haven't drafted badly at all...

Adam Jones, Tui is coming around, Morrow is a useful piece (even though he has been HORRIBLY mishandled up to this point), Butler and Tillman were good enough pieces to secure Bedard… Clement…

I’d like another draft pick, please

read the post

i’m not criticizing their draft record, just the player management once in the system

This team has done very well in the draft under Bavasi

Its what happens after they get drafted that is a clusterfuck

again, this is what i said in the post

just look if you dont believe me

This is not the case.

As I said earlier, last year – while Kenji was doing well – we had an entire thread about how the popular opinion around here was that although he is great, we need to just thank him for his service and show him the door.

So… no. That is not what would have happened. Incorrect.

K.J. even with an ounce more of plate discipline...

...would seriously become a middle of the lineup threat in most lineups, let alone borderline all-star.

You're kidding

right?

i'll take it

PECOTA: .294/.351/.453

Huh?

Where does PECOTA say that?

yeah, sorry.

that was 2007’s proj. i did a quick google search and didnt check the date.

PECOTA: .274/.319/.395

They give him EqA’s between .250-.260 through the end of his extension. Which isn’t horrible – for a catcher, anyway – but, yeah, he’s not about to improve.

i'm not predicting a breakout at age 32...

but if kenji’s dismal start to 2008 could force him to take an extra pitch (or even two) per at-bat, i’d like that catcher batting 8th in my lineup for the next two years (nothwithstanding clement’s availablity)

Yes, Kenji with more walks would be awesome

but what reason do we have to believe that Kenji’s going to get more selective? I mean, okay, old players tend to walk a little more, but that’s because their bats are slower, and that’s bad.

The problem with this thought

is you’re banking on Kenji changing his approach at the plate. He’s always been a hacker, and there is no reason to believe that’s going to change.

I'm not positive how that addresses what I wrote.

But okay.

a ounce more of plate discipline would give Kenji about 12 walks a year

The Giants are the only team where Kenji would be a middle of the order threat.

They've already got a Molina to do that.

No one would be praising signing a declining catcher for three more years.

Teej - April 25, 2008 reply

3.5 weeks

i guess small sample size doesnt apply here, amirite?

You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying

prove the decline

ready….go.

Kenji Johjima: 32, catcher

Done.

Go Jeff go!

i'm not saying that it will be a productive contract for all three years of the extension

just that its not as bad as everyone is taking it to be.

i’ll concur that this org has a problem saying goodbye to a productive player NEAR decline, but i’m not convinced kenji’s hit The Cliff

just trying to present an alternative perspective, here. if that’s not welcome, let me know.

That's not what you said.

You said this:

The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension.

And that is not true. We’re not being selectively biased here due to pessimism. We already said they should not sign him last year, while he was doing well.

You have to be a little more sure

that a player isn’t going to fall off a cliff before offering an extension like that. If an extension like this was offered to a 32 year old who doesn’t play catcher, it makes a little more sense. However, the fact alone that Kenji is a catcher makes this a bad extension in my mind.

here's my take

taking a chance on kenji (IF, the annual amount isnt prohibitive to being a player on the FA market for a 1B or LF), is okay because of the nature of the position. a productive C is hard to find. a reference to jeff’s original post (re: the workload), this scares me more than a numeric age 32.

i’m not saying if Bavasi called me and asked my opinion before signing the extension that i’d give an unqualified yes – just that its not as bad as i’m reading in some of the comments.

It's more the idiotic thought process that goes into extending a 32 year old catcher

if Billy Beane did this it would be “well maybe Billy Beane sees an angle we don’t” But Bavasi has a track record of ridiculously dumb things for stupid reasons, and eventually they all lead to Sean Green facing Nick Markakis in a close game with no thought even given to warming up a lefty.

lol

b/c bill bavasi has everything to do with in-game management, esp. late inning matchup decisions

If you were around here more,

you’d realize I’ve been bitching about that all day

You're the idiot who apparently thinks that we're against this move because of 25 days in April

Being patronising doesn’t work so well when you clearly have all the intellect of a badger turd.

I've missed you.

a badger turd, I like it

See this is why I compared you to Yahtzee

you charismatic stallion, you.

re: jeff's original post

2 of the 3 listed criteria (excluding the etc.’s) were age and 2008 performance (not just the numbers, but how he’s looked).

taking issue with the latter (even in only part of my post), ought not be a big deal.

isnt it appropriate to respond in such a manner? intuiting the perspective of the entire site, or its authors (re: “we’re against this move because of 25 days in april) shouldn’t be a necessary criterion for posting in a given thread.

For the record that was Matthew's post

Read the byline.

I can respond however I like

Also fuck you

assclown says what?

patronising

The word you’ve entered isn’t in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

This message brought to you by www.areyousmarterthana5thgrader.com

Uh oh

This isn’t going to be pretty.

Welcome to UK English

You really are criminally stupid, aren’t you?

knock knock

...

Cunt

Also, it's quite telling that you apparently felt the need to look up 'patronising' in a dictionary.

ohhhh!

my knickers are in such a sad state!

Stop

k, done

thx for the fun.

Now let's never go down that road again

1-day account ban for Graham-baiting?

Wilder. - April 25, 2008 reply

noiiiiiice

damn, you got me hopping mad, you bloody bloke!

This is going to be fun.

Do your worst Graham

stop.

oh dear

:(

Well, it's pretty obvious that the only foreign culture you've ever experienced

is a recurring yeast infection, so who am I to shatter your stereotypes about the British?

PS: “Polyene antifungals include nystatin and amphotericin B.” That might help you out.

You've done alright so far

Please don’t go down this route :(

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/patronising

I actually think you'd have been fine

if it wasn’t for the ‘EVERYONE would have been okay with this’ thing.

Yep

OK, so are we all cool now?

We’re cool?

Marc w: the good cop to Graham’s Robocop.

No, we are not cool

But you are, Graham!

Yeah

That was before I saw the above subthread.

Never mind. The good cop’s ‘going on break’ and the CCTV is off in the interrogation room. Just so y’know.

Nick Markakis is 0-2 versus Green in his career

hahaha

Damn you =(

but Brian Roberts has hit at least one home run

In a vaccum, fine

but we all know this is not how the Mariners function. Until he goes Jeff Cirillio and gets booed they’re not going to reduce his PT. It’s likely Clement will be dealt for pennies on the dollar to plug some sort of need—a need that could be address in a much more efficient way.

You're clearly ignoring everything we're saying.

How many of these guys did anything

after age 32? And Kenji plays CATCHER for God’s sake

Scouting matters too. He looks lost. Pitchers have found his hole and he's too hack-happy to wait for them to throw where he want it

Are you replying to the right comment?

I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t care how he’s performed over the past month. He’s getting old, and signing him to a three-year contract would be a mistake. I would have told you that a month ago. You’re making up opinions for people so you can argue against them.

Teej - April 25, 2008 reply

Two years and 3.5 weeks is not a small sample size

therefore SSS is irrelevant – the point is not that Kenji has been bad this year, which he has been, it’s that he doesn’t project to contribute at a high level for the life of this contract, and we have Clement who is ready to go in AAA

wrong

ah, that was fun.

thanks for playing. well-researched contribution, mate.

But he's right.

You’re wrong.

You're not Graham so don't act like Graham

? I did not write "wrong"

Same idea

This is a little picky

Since I was just agreeing with someone and seeing as I’ve been presenting arguments everywhere else. But okay. Done.

I'm going to be picky if that's what it takes

I’m not singling you out, just trying to improve the general tone a little bit.

Kittens make everything better :)

Oh kittens… Is there no day you can’t brighten?

I'd love to wake up to a steaming mugfull of kitten

I think the bear is cuter.

awww

::hugs::

Awww

cuuuuuttteeeeeeeeeeee -_-v

Kawaii!!!!!!!!

Ugh I feel dirty now.

::snuggles::

Awwwwwwwww cute!

look how well they get along!

Amusing for entirely different reasons.

ahahah

I knew you were setting them up. Get them with the cute picture, and then out of nowhere, club their happy feelings to death.

I wonder if people ever ask Seal if he wants to go clubbing

Do you really want to go clubbing with Seal?

Somebody already went clubbing with his face

With Heidi Klum in the sack, who needs to go clubbing?

Wilder. - April 25, 2008 reply

Amen to that.

This place has just gotten entirely too mean for me.

Jeff's violating the TOS!!!!!

I have created a space for this

please contribute this photo.

I want to keep it. Can I keep it?

We all would, my friend.

We all would.

Welcome to Lookout Landing!

Well, we really just don't like morons here.

It’s gotten really bad lately and we don’t need you helping them.

TOS

he’s making a valid argument. Attack what he’s saying, not who he is.

So is this what you meant by having to moderate more?

What we need is more beer threads. And delicious beer.

This is part of what I mean

I’d really like to do away with the nasty tone of discussion. Graham’s the only one who can pull it off. It’s right there in the rules.

Sorry, I just felt the arguement didn't need rehashing

and when I figured that when our reactions were called “hilarious” this guy wasn’t looking for a reasonable discussion.

Ehh, it's not like he came in here acting like a dick

might as well give a semi-thoughtful response. It certainly wouldn’t be hard to do so. Kenji = catcher = 30+ = uh ohs

I'm tired of people chracterizing the entireblogosphere with one swoop

So I’ll try a more cordial version of my response:

The reaction ‘round the blogosphere is hilarious. If Kenji hadn’t yet had an at-bat in ‘08, and if the annual total was near fair market value, everyone (read: EVERYONE) would be praising the extension

This makes no sense.

I don't like it either

but I’m just hyper sensitive about the discussion threads right now.

duly noted.

i’ll refrain from such comments in the future.

I got to remember I can't pull off the one word answer thing off in print

like I can in real life non internet situations, so maybe we should just not reply to stupid shit? I dunno. It’s tough.

seriously, JI

i usually like your contributions on these boards (is this sort of a generalization okay), but:

reply to stupid shit?[/quote]

come on, man. you’re better than an ad-hominem attack on a user who never posts.

No I'm not.

No, we wouldn't.

An extension for ANY C to his year 35 season is risky. Go look at Piazza, Pudge and Varitek for examples. Here’s the thing: all THREE of them were better hitters at younger ages than Kenji is now, and better players.

Kenji is an above-average player about to hit his decline phase. The Mariners decided they needed to buy his decline phase. Of course, this being the franchise that let the useless carcass of Dan Wilson play for about 3 years too long, this is hardly surprising.

It boils down to this

Catchers don’t last very long. They’re the halfbacks of Baseball, always undergoing physical stress that other players don’t have to face. He’s 32 now, and this is the age where catchers regress. That regression often takes the form of falling off a cliff.

A three year extension to a catcher who is 32 is not a good baseball decision.

You are a moron

This I'm fine with

Good to see you, Graham.

Is Paul Allen

interested in buying an MLB franchise?

Rumor has it he inquired about ten years ago and they coldly told him it wasn't for sale.

Here’s a link that tells you where to send him fan mail

However, if we want to start a campaign to get him interested....

Wrong Paul Allen dumb dumb

I just copied link location >:(

I will shoot this person dead

As much as Allen is my favorite non-Felix human being alive

He did employ Bob Whitsitt to run 2 franchises into the ground for many years

Kenji is our new Dan Wilson

I hated Dan Wilson

But Dan was a goalie!

That means he’s a great catcher!

But I like Kenji

I know he’s had a bad start at the plate, but I feel like over the past couple years he’s been the only one who could get clutch hits when we needed them. Especially in ‘05… he seemed the only one in the lineup you could count on besides Ichiro.

(And, um, I have his jersey. So it’s nice to know that’s good for a couple more seasons.)

Luscious James - April 25, 2008 reply

a front office can't make roster decisions

based on who people “like.” What they have done is give a three year extension to a catcher who is 32. Catchers begin declining at this age.

Do you want a repeat of what happened with Dan Wilson, who stayed three years too long?

The one small ray of sunshine (read:futile hope)...

I suspect that if Kenji DOES fall off of a cliff between now and 2011, he’ll pull a Kaz Sasaki and return to Japan to finish his career (hopefully without “falling down the stairs”). Japanese players do seem to do this.

It’s not a big one, though. :(

Ugh

Like we discussed in the first Kenji Johjima extension possibility thread whenever the fuck that was, what we needed was a nice one year extension for 2010 where he could split time at C and DH with Clement to save their legs and get Clement acclimated, then at the end of the year, have Kenji Johjima appreciation day, and he’s on his way back to Japan as a rich celebrity going out on top. The End.

FUCKING FUCKBALLS

This is why I buy blank jerseys

you can say that again

told ya so

This is the stupidest thing I've seen from Bavasi since the Carlos Guillen trade

Yes but you're biased on account of the Jeff Clement bedsheets

that's an overstatement

How?

I don’t think it will have the biggest impact, but it betrays incompetence on a massive scope when it comes to building a roster.

Failing to appreciate what cheap players at key positions can give you? Check
Failure to embrace the need for roster turnover in the coming seasons? Check
Failure to appreciate the likelihood of decline in catchers over 30? Check

They’ve managed to misjudge this strategically – how to build a roster. That much is obvious from the start. Furthermore, they appear to have made a tactical blunder in terms of player value on top of that, although one might possibly argue that Johjima would be worth more than Clement for the next 3 years if one were criminally stupid.

I hate this move because of who it blocks, I hate this move for what it does to my dream offseason, and I hate this move because it signifies that this front office still doesn’t have a goddamn clue.

This is the exact reason I hated the Vidro trade

except that was this sort of incompetence done on a more massive scale.

As much as I love Doyle

I don’t see how he’s even close to having the sort of impact Clement at catcher gives you. This would have been like the Twins resigning Pierzynski with Mauer in AAA. (Not that Clement is that good of course, but it’s still a reasonable comparison)

I hated the trade because

1). Vidro is just about the worst DH I can think of
2). He’s ain’t cheap
3), This locks Raul into LF
4). There a free DHs everywhere that are much better than Vidro for free.
5) We traded Randy Winn to make room for a slower, lighter hitting version of him than can play 0 defense? Awesome.

I think the ho ram for soriano was stupider

I think the wVidro trade was worse than both.

Joh extension

I just called the customer service and made a Bavasi complaint, the women working the phones was very nice and said every message is taken and there is accountability for them, 206-346-4000 is the number. The funny thing is the woman was questioning the move as well. Would it be nice to see what a smart GM would do with $117 mill payroll.

talkbaseball - April 25, 2008 reply

AWESOME

wait I posted this in the wrong thread, Not awesome. But really not horrible either, considering our 1B and DH now. I mean, I’m unhappy about it but it doesn’t really compare to my other beefs with the team. Its like getting a cold when you already have cancer. You’re like, man I hate colds, but also you think, well, I should just enjoy it cause soon I’ll be dead.

So what're the odds they'll stick Clement at first

And use that to justify not making a run at Teixeira?

how much time has Clement played 1st?

I'm betting Clement is going to become a DH.

Our outfield's going to look awesome with Griffey and Ibanez in it

until griffey tears his hamstring

and the it’ll look twice as busy with Willie out there

Griffey has a hamstring to tear?

I thought they were already all torn to shreds to the point of having morphed into scar tissue anyway…

So much for our two year window to win the World Series.

Maybe they'll go after Adam Dunn or Carl Crawford instead?

Think positive! :)

That's not positive at all

Why not?

From what I can tell, the M’s will be in need of atleast one and quite possibly 2 outfielders, and both Dunn and Crawford would be good pickups.

No they wouldn't

Crawford will be hideously overpaid and Dunn will be hideously overpaid with Ibanezitis

And Texiera won't be hideously overpaid?

I mean seriously, if you ignore BA the way some people keep telling me I’m supposed to, there’s virtually no difference in Dunn and Texiera’s stats.

Defence!

Again, according to what I've been told, not

necessarily on this site, 1B defense is overrated.

Perhaps, but Dunn is worth roughly 0 runs over average as an outfielder because of his defense

if it true

it doesn’t change Dunn’s horribleness with the glove.

Dunn will fall off a cliff sooner too.

defense

and the difference in skills

and no, Tex won’t be overpaid. He’ll be underpaid most likely.

also, parks!

Tex’s last 3 OPS+: 144, 126, 150
Dunn’s last 3 OPS+: 141, 114, 136

going further to using linear weights adj for park and league

Tex’s last 3 year avg: 35 runs above average
-10 for playing 1B
0 to +5 for his glove
Tex is about 30 runs above average.

Dunn’s last 3 year avg: 25 runs above average
-5 for playing LF
-20 to -10 for his glove
Dunn is about 5 runs above average.

On top of all that, Dunn’s skills are far far far more likely to fall off a cliff than Tex’s.

Since when is Crawford even available?

Since I forgot to make sure that he didn

Trying again...

since I forgot to make sure he didnt have any options on his current contract. Sorry.

Crawford won't be hideously overpaid

because he won’t be available. There are 2 more team options on his contract, at $8.25M and $10M. That’s a bargain for a player like him.

rfloh - April 26, 2008 reply

Adam Dunn is going to be an albatross.

Assuming you're right, are there any OF

you DO want to pick up?

No

It always depends on the price

There could be value found in someone like Jacque Jones or what have you, but by and large no, the FA OF market is full of landmines.

Maybe you could pick up Hinske on the cheap.

The prospect of such a move fills me with anticipatory glee

Sorry.

Now that I think about it, maybe the M’s are planning to grab Juan Rivera. Actually, I find the prospect kind of frightening, because Rivera’s almost criminally underrated in most circles.

"Most circles"

evidently including the Angels front office…

Not sure why they didn’t just trade the guy, seeing as how he’s on pace for like 150 at-bats this season.

PaulThomas - April 25, 2008 reply

'Most circles'

DEFINITELY including the Halos front office, though it has a little to do with him busting his leg in winterball last year.

upside

One of either Vidro or Sexson is not coming back for sure.

that's a given anyway

Ha!

you so sure?

they're already looking to limit Vidro's AB

and I’m willing to put money down on Sexson not coming back.

Are they really?

If so, why is Vidro batting fifth every night?

better than 2

and I expect to see him on the bench come July. But I’m an optimist.

It's Pepe. The option only vests if JOSE gets the PAs

Just like Kenji not getting resigned

Rosenthal says

$16.5M / 3.

That’s valuing him at about 1.5 wins above replacement. Seriously, that’s a bargain.

rfloh - April 25, 2008 reply

Well, at least it's not too crippling of a contract.

It's still pretty horrible roster construction.

You sure that's not his old contract?

Because IIRC his first contract was 3/16.5. Then of course with Kenji it wouldn’t be surprising if he just told them “just give me the same money at we’re good”

No, I believe that's the initial contract he signed

“Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal,”

We don’t know the terms of the new one.

you are correct

it’s referring to the old contract

OK, my bad

I didn’t actually read. Just looked at the dollar figures.

rfloh - April 25, 2008 reply

that's not bad

He’ll be able to do that for a little while, and it will give the M’s to give Clement AB as DH while letting him catch as Kenji’s back up couple times a week. (dream scenario)

That's the last contract:

The Mariners like catcher Kenji Johjima so much, they’re giving him another deal.
Johjima, who joined Seattle in 2006 with a three-year, $16.5 million contract, is about to receive another three-year deal, according to major-league sources.

The financial terms of Johjima’s deal are not yet known. The Mariners will announce the contract on Friday afternoon.

So… don’t get your hopes up.

We can has Kenji paycut?

It's possible

but don’t get your hopes up

not surprised

The contract itself is fine, it’s extending a declining player for 3 seasons with a better player waiting in the wings that has people upset.

While I think this move makes very little sense,

it does probably mean that Richie Sexson is leaving. So uh, it could be worse. Probably.

i'm not arguing that you are right or wrong, but could explain

Richie's contract is up in 2008.

Jeff Clement is a very good hitter, probably a little better than league average at first. There is no reason to keep him in the minors. None. Thinking logically, (I realize that might be a problem with Bavasi) the org may have decided that keeping Clement at catcher risks injury to what is now their best prospect and has decided to simply convert him to 1B. If they’ve decided that Clement’s future is at 1B, this move isn’t so bad.

As to how things could be worse…they could have extended Johjima AND Sexson. >_>;

SHHHHHHH!

Don’t even think of that possibility!

I think they'll resign sexson if he looks better than last year

only becuase the FO just keeps doing the dumbest things.

I cannot rule this out.

Which makes my soul hurt.

i know. it makes my soul hurt more than our bull pen right now

There is no move dumb enough to not be in play.

If they were making him move to first,

why in the hell is he catching twice as much in AAA as before? You would think they’s have him play 1st at least occasionally if they were planning on a switch.

That IS a flaw in the crystal ball.

But still, I try to be positive. You guys could drop Sexson and Vidro, resign Ibanez as a DH, promote Wlad and splurge on Carl Crawford.

...It COULD happen. >_>

Is there anything to suggest that Johjima would suck at 1B?

The fact he's never played there?

Besides the fact that he's never played it before?

No.

Defensively, no.

Offensively, yes.

Wilder. - April 25, 2008 reply

He's a catcher

rephrase

What is the defensive success rate of catcher switching to 1B at the end of their careers?

Not thinking offense yet, just want to know the theoretical options

Not sure

but you should read the chapter in Moneyball devoted to Scott Hatteberg switching to 1B. It’s not as easy as everyone seems to think.

See: Piazza, Mike

He'd be a very weak hitting 1st baseman with a below average glove?

How this can be OK

1: The money is less than or equal to the initial contract
2: Johjima becomes the back-up next year, or late this year
3: The F.O. has decided to end any nascent Johjima vs. Washburn battle by coming down hard on the side of Johjima
4: Johjima has a Mike Redmond-style contact-hitting renaissance in his mid 30s thanks to lesser workload
5: M’s recognize that Felix loves throwing to the guy and want to keep him around as the King’s personal squire.
6: Team realizes it has some money to play with given Clement/Wlad’s salaries next year, cheap deals for Lopez/Betancourt.
7: Sexson’s gone.
8: Clement isn’t traded for relief arm (duh).