Watching all the horror unfold, I could feel the angry rant brewing in my bones. A bad Miguel Batista gets 104 pitches, an average Jarrod Washburn gets 103, a surprising Carlos Silva gets a career-high 116, and a cruising Felix only gets 97? No sir, that didn't sit too well with me. Why take him out and replace him with a bullpen that, to date, has been anything but steady? Why not at least give him a chance to finish what he started before calling on relief? God knows that's what Felix would've wanted. As I witnessed Eric O'Flaherty and Mark Lowe throw the game away, I couldn't shake the familiar feeling that, once again, John McLaren had played a pivotal role in a Mariner loss.
...well, I'm glad I decided to step away and take a breather before writing this up, because according to Baker, Felix actually asked his way out after eight. Wasn't McLaren's decision at all. Seems that, having lost a day of preparation (thanks Erik >:( ), Felix found himself running out of steam sooner than he would've liked. He wasn't necessarily showing signs of fatigue, as his velocity was the same as it was in the early innings, but if a typically stubborn pitcher tells you that he's not 100%, it's out of your hands. So my apologies to John McLaren for jumping the gun. I guess he wasn't as responsible for this as I initially thought.
Funny how this doesn't make me feel any better.
What a catastrophe.

Biggest Contribution: King Felix, +57.3%
Biggest Suckfest: Mark Lowe, -89.7%
Most Important AB: Ibanez homer, +11.7%
Most Important Pitch: Lowe wild pitch/walk, -41.5%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -32.6%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -17.4%
Total Contribution by Opposition: 0.0%
(What is this chart?)
I love Sunday matinées. I look forward to being able to watch some early baseball, and then going on to have a rare normal, sports-free evening. It's a treat for those of us who often don't get to end up eating dinner until 11 o'clock during the week. Sunday matinées allow me to experience some hours in the afternoon that aren't overshadowed by a baseball game looming later that night.
So I wonder if this would've felt different had it happened on a weekday, where regardless of the outcome I'd just write it up and go straight to bed. I don't get to do that today. Today I have to deal with agony and try to come to terms with this for the better part of my waking hours. It's a lot worse. It's great when you win these games, because then you get to walk around with a smile on your face for the rest of the day, but when you lose them - and especially when in so doing you embarrass yourself - it has a tendency to own you. Thanks to the retarded heroics of an impossibly bad Luis Hernandez, all the sweet little things that happen to me for the rest of the day are going to taste that much more bitter.
On the plus side, I did have a good breakfast with King Felix. I had the french toast, and Felix prepared himself some scrambled eggs. While the Mariners weren't doing much against Jeremy Guthrie in the early going, Felix was tossing another dominant first few innings. Thanks in large part to an uncharacteristically solid changeup, the first ended with two grounders and two swinging strikeouts, and the second - while tainted by a line drive single - had another strikeout and two potential DP balls (one of which was turned). The game plan looked to be use the power fastball against righties while establish offspeed stuff against lefties, and early on Felix was executing to near perfection.
The third inning saw the Mariners break through for a run despite the best efforts of Raul Ibanez. Once again - and already I'm getting mighty sick of this - Raul tried to pull an outside fastball, and he rolled over on it, sending a slow roller to second for a double play. But with a runner on third, Richie Sexson picked up the spare by pulling the first pitch he saw into left field for a double. Richie seems to be alternating his good days and his bad ones, as today it looked like he'd gone clue shopping before the game. I encourage more of this.
Armed with a slim lead, Felix went back out there and kept dealing. A lot of fastballs to righties, and a lot of offspeed stuff to lefties. The third in particular was impressive, as the King needed only seven pitches to record a strikeout and two grounders. The only question was how much longer he'd be able to keep this up. In his first start, the dominance lasted three innings. Today I was hoping he'd stretch it out to five or six. Not that it'd be easy to tell when Felix started to lose it, since the Orioles' lineup is bad, but all I wanted was an improvement. If Felix can warm up in April and settle into a groove by May, then that'd be peachy.
(Note: Felix has not yet settled into a groove. He's also allowed one run in two starts. Freaky.)
Fourth inning:
The game got into a pretty quick pace, as after Sexson's double, no one was hitting. Guthrie made an unforgivable mistake in the sixth when he served up an 0-2 home run to Raul Ibanez, but as quickly as it happened, everyone seemed to forget about it. It was almost as if the teams were just playing out the string after agreeing that the early 1-0 lead was more than enough for Felix. There was no excitement - just outs. It wasn't long before the monotony drove Jim Palmer insane.
By the middle of the sixth, Palmer was wearing the expression of a man who'd lost touch with reality and just gone completely nuts. Not stabby-nuts like Hendu or perverted-nuts like Rizzs, but dissociated-nuts, like at any moment he was going to start massaging Jim Hunter's tie and accuse the door jamb of malice. I can't imagine that the Orioles are going to be that much fun to watch over the rest of the season, but unless Palmer's able to recover from this breakdown, the broadcast just got more interesting.
The bottom half of the sixth is when Felix started to show signs of wearing down. While he was still pitching in the mid-90s, he lost his command, throwing first-pitch balls to all five of the batters and walking two of them. The two-out walk to Markakis wasn't the worst possible outcome with a righty on deck, but after falling behind Millar, Felix left a fastball up at the belt that Millar fortunately lined right at Betancourt's glove to end the inning. The shutout was intact, but it didn't look like Felix had that much left in the tank.
The shutout then almost disappeared in the seventh, when Felix continued to fight himself. Aubrey Huff flew out to lead off, but then Felix hung an absolutely awful, awful curveball to Luke Scott that a better hitter would've sent over the fence, instead of off of it. That pitch was by far Felix's biggest mistake of the day, a sign that while he is improving, he's still susceptible to ugly fuck-ups. That pitch is exactly why I hope Felix can make his changeup about 5-10% better.
He regained my trust with a nasty 1-2 slider to Scott Moore to end the inning, though, and then in the eighth Felix threw first-pitch strikes to all three batters, needing only nine pitches in total to sit them down. Where an inning earlier I thought he was just about finished, now I thought it'd be worth sending him back out there for the ninth to try and wrap things up. Not only would Felix appreciate the gesture, but it could also spare us the unpleasantness of watching a non-JJ reliever try to save the game.
But, as it turns out, Felix was done. And this meant that we had to call on someone out of the bullpen to preserve a lead that was still only two runs due to the efforts of Guthrie, Dennis Sarfate, and Randor Bierd, who sounds less like a pitcher and more like the ship that Leif Ericson and his crew of fellow Norsemen sailed to Canada.
With three of Baltimore's 3-6 hitters being left-handed, McLaren went with southpaw Eric O'Flaherty, who'd thrown 29 pitches the night before. At the time I didn't like this for two reasons: (1) I thought Felix had more left in the tank, and (2) if McLaren had to go to the bullpen, Ryan Rowland-Smith is better. Obviously #1 turned out to be wrong, but I stand by #2, and I don't like that we've given four appearances to O'Flaherty and just one to a guy who last year struck out more than a batter an inning. I don't get it. It'd be one thing if O'Flaherty had loads of experience; that would at least serve as an explanation, albeit a bad one. But he doesn't. As a young arm with limited time on the roster, O'Flaherty and RRS are pretty much in the same boat. So why does McLaren seem to like the former so much more? This strikes me as another example of McLaren getting too tied up in his labels and roles. O'Flaherty's his designated high-leverage lefty, so he becomes the fallback plan when JJ's out, even though he isn't the best choice. It's annoying, but there you go.
McLaren also didn't bother making any defensive substitutions in the bottom of the ninth. I'd love to know why we have a five-man bench if we aren't ever going to use it.
Anyway, O'Flaherty quickly got himself in trouble by allowing a leadoff double to Markakis. He worked his way through the next two batters, allowing a run but getting both out, but then Luke Scott grounded a ball into the hole between first and second to keep the rally alive and force McLaren to go back to the bullpen for a righty. In came Mark Lowe, who didn't look the least bit sharp. That whole showdown against Ramon Hernandez with men on the corners, it just felt like the only thing going through Lowe's head was "don't throw a wild pitch," and then behind 3-1 he threw one anyway to let Jones score the tying run.
Miserable. The wild pitch felt so much like a loss that I barely even noticed the execrable Luis Hernandez lining a 2-2 fastball into the gap to win the game. Seriously, Luis Hernandez is bad. Really really bad. The man hit .242 in AA last season. He's probably the worst offensive position player in the Major Leagues right now. And he's the guy who drove in the final nail.
And so somehow, some way, we've found ourselves desperate to avoid a four-game sweep against the Baltimore Orioles. This is what I get to have running through my head for the rest of the day until I go to sleep. Dinner's gonna taste like poop.
0 recs | 125 comments
Why do I have this odd feeling that Silva is going to pitch pretty solid.
And we're still only going to score 2-3 runs and ultimately lose...
The M's haven't scored over 5 runs this season yet and that's what concerns me more than bullpen woes (although you could attribute EOF's problems today with McLaren putting him in after two previous days of work).
schwagnah - April 6, 2008
Just noticed something funny.
The Link to baker's blog... /2008/04/ms_hang_on_for_21_win.html
M's hang on for 2-1 win, haha even Geoff thought this one should have been in the bag.
Oh well. its not the end of the world i suppose
schwagnah - April 6, 2008
This made me laugh.
I work for a paper, and sometimes I cringe when some of our internal story-naming practices make us look stupid when it hits the Internet.
Teej - April 6, 2008
Hernandez v. Bocock
"[Luis Hernandez is] probably the worst offensive position player in the Major Leagues right now."
Really? I thought that title belonged to Brian Bocock of the Giants?
And before you make the joke that the NL/Giants aren't the major leagues, neither are the Orioles. Check out his Minor League numbers:
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=31087
Eyebrows - April 6, 2008
Fine, second-worst
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
Still, there's a nice thread there of
ownerships who don't give a shit sending their fans a big fuck you by fielding starting shortstops who've never played above AA, and couldn't hit to save their lives in the low minors.
Eyebrows - April 6, 2008
Sad Clown
Fin - April 6, 2008
I was really hoping Mac would cry during that post-game interview.
He looked like he was about to lose it.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Again, my theory is that Mac has a catheter...
That randomly releases Pixie stick powder in his pee hole. That is the only way to explain those expressions he randomly has.
RustyJohn - April 6, 2008
Sad Clown Bad Spring
Nick S - April 6, 2008
When life gives you lemons
You paint that shit gold
mariners124m - April 6, 2008
needs more JJ and Bonds
Matthew - April 6, 2008
Detroit
amazing... about to start the season 0-6 trailing 9-1 in the 7th, and they just got booed by the home crowd after Cabrera grounds into a dp.
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
As much as we hate life right now
at least we're not Detroit fans.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
this place would be on suicide watch
if we had the Tigers expectations and started 0-6.....
How long before Leyland is on the hotseat?
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
2013
PLU Tim - April 6, 2008
I missed it, how did D-Train do in his start?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - April 6, 2008
He had a no-hitter going through 4 or 5 innings.
....while walking 7 batters......
ThundaPC - April 6, 2008
Fernando Vina was on ESPN
talking about how he knew Dontrelle would get everything back together this season because he is an "ace". Seems Vina has forgotten the past two seasons, but he is an ESPN analyst so this is expected...
2006 24 FLA NL 12 12 34 34 4 1 0 0 223.3 234 106 96 21 83 160 19 6 975 6 1 3.87 4.31 112 1.419
2007 25 FLA NL 10 15 35 35 0 0 0 0 205.3 241 131 118 29 87 146 14 9 942 4 1 5.17 4.30 83 1.597
RustyJohn - April 6, 2008
Can't watch BBTN anymore
I miss Soup, Ravech, Reynolds, and Kruk. Now they have all these idiots on with poor Krukkie and one other decent commentator. Oh, and Ravech has gone insane.
cwel87 - April 7, 2008
Lucky and awful.
Teej - April 6, 2008
Murdered
White Sox win 13-2.
JLC - April 6, 2008
The Detroit Tigers are now 0-6.
They got swept by the Kansas City Royals.
They just got swept by the Chicago White Sox.
.....what's this? Their schedule? They're facing the Boston Red Sox next?
Oh dear....
ThundaPC - April 6, 2008
And Magglio Ordonez is now 2-18.
Goose - April 6, 2008
He just needs to work through it
He's an awesome hitter. He won the batting title last year!
seattlebruin - April 6, 2008
So how's Miggy Cabrera doi-
oh.
Gomez - April 6, 2008
regression is a bitch
hahahahahahaha
cwel87 - April 7, 2008
Man, am I glad I didn't see this game.
At least Felix is starting awesome out of the gate again.
Goose - April 6, 2008
2008 Seattle Mariners
"At least we're not the Giants"
Season tickets now available
dbroncos31 - April 6, 2008
Any recap
that ends in the word poop is always satisfying
mariners124m - April 6, 2008
Palmer always looks like this
There's something really disturbing about him. Seriously.
Scott Christ - April 6, 2008
Is that -89.7% the single biggest suckfest in the history of M's WE charts?
seattlebruin - April 6, 2008
I distinctly remember Guardado being worse.
BrettJMiller - April 6, 2008
IIRC his April 2005 Texas meltdown was about -81%
and that was probably his worst.
Gomez - April 6, 2008
lol
what a great ending
Snowman1025 - April 6, 2008
New manager
What is the consensus on how long Mclaren will last and any ideas on his replacement?
Carl Everett's Dino Farm - April 6, 2008
There are a lot of pawns to fall before they take the king.
Which is part of why McLaren keeps the assclown brigade around (Sexson, Vidro et all). As long as they're playing, they'll eat up enough of the blame to keep Squinty McShitshispants in vodka, American flags and scented two-ply.
Jordan of Boise - April 6, 2008
The rest of the year, and no.
ThundaPC - April 6, 2008
My nominee for replacement is Willard Scott
RustyJohn - April 6, 2008
I'm watching the Sonics game, along with like 5 other viewers
I saw the recap at halftime of this game. I'm glad I wasn't watching.
See, I play in a little free poker league called the Seattle Poker Open, and I earned a seat in today's season championship at Tulalip casino. Since I had rented a car ($60 for that) and made a day of it, I decided to blow the additional $50 to play Tulalip's noon bounty tournament like many of the other regulars did. In that tournament, I threaded the needle, got lucky a couple times, made the final table (out of 170 players), finished 6th and made $320 for my trouble, outlasting every other league player that played the tournament.
I busted out of the SPO championship and pissed off one of the regulars in the process (I bet him off a multi-way hand he would have won by going all-in), but it was still one hell of a day. Spending $120 and a full day, and netting a $210 surplus for your troubles? Yes please.
Beats the hell out of what would have been the alternative: watching this meltdown.
Gomez - April 6, 2008
Clever attempt to disguise a poker story as a baseball comment
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
It's the reason I wasn't watching today
I try not to talk about poker in general, because who cares, but I felt like contrasting my day of awesome with the Mariners' day of gagging away a win.
Gomez - April 6, 2008
Still, this makes me happy
"How happy was I? Extremely. Once he came out, I knew we had a chance. He kind of reminded me of the old Pedro (Martinez) days when Pedro was in Boston. He was throwing that good." –Aubrey Huff
"That guy was dirty. That’s the best I’ve ever seen him throw. I don’t know that anybody could throw much better than he threw today. [After Hernandez left] I was happy. Bottom line." –Jay Payton
Fett42 - April 6, 2008
Let's hope Bedard will help on Tuesday
Fin - April 6, 2008
Awesome
BrettJMiller - April 6, 2008
Wait this one is better...having problems posting it as a fanshot though
Fin - April 6, 2008
OK That kicks ass
Corco - April 6, 2008
Have you seen him walk?
No wonder Bedard has hip problems.
kentroyals5 - April 6, 2008
Next Bedard start
is free Bennigan's coupons and gumballs night to the first 20,000 fans.
hcoguy - April 7, 2008
Its only a buy one get one free coupan though right?
Fin - April 7, 2008
I entirely blame this loss on Bedard...
his pussy injury made Felix tired earlier because he fucked up his routine (which means Silva's probably was too), which means after coming off a career high pitch count, Silva will be tired after 6. A sore hip, whoop dee shit.
Squinty McFuckface does get blame for choosing an overworked sack of Potatoes over a guy who's thrown 7 pitches and just as effective.
And BTW, honorable mention to Jose Lopez for not getting to a ball that should've ended the game. You may be able to hit now, but you're still a shitty defender.
basebliman - April 6, 2008
Why does everyone think
Lopez should have gotten to that ball? I've seen the replay, it wasn't an easy play.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Same reason we want Sexson out of the lineup
even though he's got an OPS over .800 right now..... preconceived notions of suckitude.
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
But these preconcieved notions
that Lopez sucks in the field are slightly off-base aren't they?
I think Jeff mentioned somewhere to me that Lopez was a 0
BrianL - April 6, 2008
and where the hell did the rest of my message go?
Jeff mentioned that Lopez was a 0 < x < 10 defender.
Not fantastic, spooge your pants awesome, but not "shitty" by any stretch of the imagination.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
I think Lopez' defensive suckiness
comes from some of the lackadasical plays he made last year.... I remember one in Toronto especially that was all based on a lack of hustle.
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
That's a rather subjective way
of determining that Lopez is a shitty defender.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
its not my way
just explaining the notion of Lopez' defense... he did suffer a few mental lapses last year so I'm sure some of defined him as someone that doesn't hustle enough.
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the heart of it
it's too bad, too.
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
Sorry, didn't mean to direct that at you.
Just towards the people who are using arbitrary examples to prove a point.
The people who are using a few "mental lapses" as proof that Lopez sucks/doesn't hustle are probably the same people who think Adam Jones is a terrible defender because of a couple of dropped balls last season.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
It is funny too
because if you think back, Yuni has had quite a few mental lapses defensively as well but doesn't get the bad rap defensively that Jose does... I think defensive rep in cases like this go and in hand with overall production.... Lopez has struggled the last couple years offensively, Yuni not so much..
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
I think your theory is correct.
Exhibit A: Derek Jeter winning Gold Gloves.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Nobody is saying Lopez is a bad defender, but he clearly did not hustle to that ball.
Wilder. - April 7, 2008
He did not loaf on that play.
Jeff Sullivan - April 7, 2008
He has short choppy steps
Makes him look life he's loafing sometimes...if he lays out to dive, maybe he stops the ball, but he doesn't throw out the runner. He had to slide like that to give him a chance to throw the ball.
kentroyals5 - April 7, 2008
I blame the loss on Jeff Weaver
Alaska - April 6, 2008
Hip pain can be very uncomfortable.
And can definitely affect strength, mechanics.
rfloh - April 7, 2008
Clearly Felix needs to be demoted
and replaced with R.A. Dickey.
RustyJohn - April 6, 2008
This series has blown
But at least we haven't been getting shit on or anything. Maybe the bullpen will turn it around or RRS will start being used.
Also, does the Go Rays! mean we're already supposed to give up? After 6 games?
Mariner John - April 6, 2008
No
the Rays are just really cool.
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
and they're not the Yankees or Red Sox.
Fuck the Yankees and Red Sox.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Cooler than the Mariners?
Mariner John - April 6, 2008
I wouldn't over analyze this if I were you.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Done.
Mariner John - April 6, 2008
No
We have an entire website devoted to the Mariners. We have one line currently devoted to the Rays.
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
I bought my hat last month.
Wore it to work on "Casual Saturday" yesterday.
Teej - April 6, 2008
I want a Sonnanstine jersey
They're harder to find than you'd think.
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
Ha! Yeah, that might be kinda tough.
I found the Rays hat the Mission Valley mall with no problem. My best friend in Spokane tried to do the same and was laughed out of the store.
Teej - April 6, 2008
I called him first, dammit
Graham MacAree - April 7, 2008
No callsies
Jeff Sullivan - April 7, 2008
Also, SSS
Mariner John - April 6, 2008
What is this SSS?
okdan - April 6, 2008
Small, salted shrimp?
I love shrimp.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Smooth silky suds?
I know there are beer fans about these parts.
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
Sick sinus syndrome?
BrianL - April 6, 2008
Sexson should suicide
George702 - April 6, 2008
Shit sandwich shop
Gomez - April 6, 2008
Small sample size
Also: does not apply to McLaren.
Mariner John - April 6, 2008
Mrs. McLaren
might disagree about the "small sample size"......
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
UNPLEASANT THOUGHTS UNPLEASANT THOUGHTS
You planned to post that right before I went to bed, didn't you? >:(
Jeff Sullivan - April 6, 2008
of course!
MfaninAlaska - April 6, 2008
I hope he doesn't cry when he's done..that'd be unfortunate
kentroyals5 - April 6, 2008
Its a continuum for me damnit
Stupid managing mistakes this year that mirror those from last..so I'm not going with the normally applicable SSS-theory.
It'll all come full circle when we trade Clement for a shitty reliever.
kentroyals5 - April 6, 2008
Just the thought of that occuring
makes me die a little on the inside.
BrianL - April 6, 2008
At least we aren't as bad as Detriot...
Alaska - April 6, 2008
But on the other hand they just plain suck...they haven't blown games due to the fact they can't get a lead.
SethGrandpa - April 6, 2008
Too...tired...to make better picture...
Here you go though.
BrettJMiller - April 7, 2008
Jim Palmer Looks Like a Johnny-Cab driver from Total Recall
The fare is eighteen credits, please. Aaaaaah!
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo - April 7, 2008
Well done.
Phil Hatzenbuehler - April 7, 2008
GET YOUR ASS TO MARS
GET YOUR ASS TO MARS
GET YOUR ASS TO MARS
Gomez - April 7, 2008
If Morse is a defensive liability,
then what the hell do you call Wilkerson? Would it be possible to have a defensive let down by starting Morse? I find myself actually rooting for Wilkerson to strike out at this point in hopes that McLaren will have to make a change.
monkeybones - April 7, 2008
Because you are dumb
Graham MacAree - April 7, 2008
no you are!! so there!
monkeybones - April 7, 2008
Well done
It appears AK's sister has somehow had offspring.
Graham MacAree - April 7, 2008
Cold.
Yet... Somehow... "Burn."
CapSea - April 8, 2008
What the fuck is wrong with these new faggots?
BrettJMiller - April 7, 2008
You tell 'em, homophobe
but really, you have a point.
pdb - April 7, 2008
as opposed to the old ones?
monkeybones - April 7, 2008
I agree!
Old Marlboros were much better...
PositivePaul - April 7, 2008
You are the mayor of greeting annoying newbies
Mariner John - April 7, 2008
I still want an essay-based application for newbies
pdb - April 7, 2008
I'm just about to head out to the game
but I saw something this morning that I had to share. I was looking at tickets on the Orioles website, and this is the word verification security check that Ticketmaster gave me:
Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the person in charge of checking the list of potential words is either not from the US, is from the deep South (which is arguably the same condition as the former), and/or is above the age of 60.
Ticketmaster dodged a bullet on this one. I have a few friends who would've gone totally apeshit if this had popped up for them.
ningwers - April 7, 2008
There's probably no "list" or verification of the words
because Ticketmaster's captcha is also an effort to digitize out-of-print books, so it probably just throws up random pairs of words from the books with little or no checking.
pdb - April 7, 2008
The word oriental isn't always used as a insensitive racial term either.
Oriental and occidental anyone?
Jed MC - April 7, 2008
speaking of racism
Maybe Johnny Mac is showing Irish preference for O'Flaherty?!
johnbai - April 7, 2008
You're definitely right about that
I think hearing my grandparents refer to Asians and Asian-Americans as Orientals and having quite a number of sensitive Asian friends has put the negative connotation in the forefront of my mind.
ningwers - April 7, 2008
What's wrong with oriental?
Graham MacAree - April 7, 2008
Apparently rugs are easily offended
Mariner John - April 7, 2008
the prefered nomenclature is "asian american"
JI - April 7, 2008
I'm not American
Graham MacAree - April 7, 2008
one of your many faults
JI - April 7, 2008
This is a clever response.
CapSea - April 8, 2008
I don't know
At some arbitrary point in the last 10 years, American society made the elective decision to consider it a deeply offensive term. I have no idea.
Gomez - April 7, 2008
It is an issue that Asian people have.
As my wife says, Asians are people while Oriental is a description of things. Food, rugs, trinkets, etc.
Sec 108 - April 8, 2008
It also does not cover all Asian people.
Oriental is the less racist "Chinaman" when referring to non-Chinese. Oriental only refers to like Korean, Chinese and I think the middle east, ironically. But it's incorrect use covered every Asian ethnicity.
CapSea - April 8, 2008
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