Seattle: 18-27
Tigers: 17-27
Game 1: Carlos Silva vs Justin Verlander
Game 2: Jarrod Washburn* vs Kenny Rogers*
Game 3: Miguel Batista vs Jeremy Bonderman
Not sure what's going on with Miguel and Jarrod and their rotation slots. The probable pitcher listing has Miguel in game two and game three TBA and since there is an offday Monday the M's could turn to Bedard on game three. But do they have a reason to skip Washburn? No, I mean a reason the Mariners would actually employ? Sucking doesn't cut it with this group.
Justin Verlander was never as good as most people thought after his 18-win season last year and Jeremy Bonderman has been nutters for a few years now. All in all, these match ups look a lot more scary than they actually are.
Likely Starters:
C Ivan Rodriguez
1 Miguel Cabrera
2 Placido Polanco
3 Carlos Guillen
S Edgar Renteria
L Matthew Joyce
C Curtis Granderson
R Magglio Ordonez
D Gary Sheffield
The Tigers problems haven't been in scoring runs. This is a legitimately scary lineup, even Matthew Joyce (who?) is raking the ball. Seeing the slate of pitchers we have going against them, there is good reason to enjoy that winning streak now before this series begins.
For Jeff Clement/Jeremy Reed/Jose Vidro related hilarity look toward Jeff's post on the matter. The only part that I'll add is something that came to me this morning; that if the Mariners were actually a little smarter and went with Raul at DH and Reed in LF for the foreseeable future, that either sets the stage quite well for the 2009 offseason or sets us up for utter ruin.
Raul at DH is good, he's worth keeping around in that role, worth extending even, though not for more than two years. Reed would be a solid 4th outfielder who might not kill you as a starter, Willie makes a good bench player as the pinch-runner, backup middle infielder and 5th outfielder. Raul takes up the 6th outfield spot. That leaves backup catcher, backup corner infielder and backup masher as spots to fill. Not difficult to do.
That basically leaves just signing Teixeira (and poking around for a LFer better than Reed) as the only move you have to make next winter (leaving aside the sign Felix, Bedard, Beltre issues) to end up with a solid offensive and defensive team. Problem is, Raul is now firmly entrenched at DH, so...Clement? The brilliant offseason sees us either deal off Johjima or dump Burke and go with a 50/50 split in time behind the dish between Clement and Joh. The catastrophic scenario sees Bavasi trade Clement for Griffey, wherein one (or god forbid more) of {Griffey, Ibanez} is plying trade in the field.
WOOOO! Two-game winning streak! Off-Day! House season finale! This calls for lots of beer!
Expedition Stout
Bells Brewing. Kalamazoo, MI
Pure black pour with a brown head. The aroma has notes of sour and sweet. The flavor is very complex with elements of smoke, cocoa and coffee as to be expected from an imperial stout.
Raspberry Eisbock
Kuhnhenn Brewing. Warren, MI
Oh ho ho, not just one sponsor for this series. This is our only trip to Detroit, so you're getting the full bevy of a state that is very much underrated in terms of beer production. Raspberries, chocolate and caramel in this delicious fruit beer that's a bit more of a dessert than a beer you'd want to have many of in a row.
Breakfast Stout
Founders Brewing. Grand Rapids, MI
That's right, a beer for each game of the series. If you like coffee taste in your beer, similar to a Kona Porter, than you'll love this. The name is spot on here, if you are going to have beer before noon, this is a perfect one.
0 recs | 365 comments
Is there any explanation as to Verlander's declining velocity?
His FB has averaged only 92.9mph this year versus ~95mph in his previous seasons. Is he likely hurt, even though he’s denying it?
Alex B - May 19, 2008
The Tigers continue to deny that he's hurt
but I’m not so sure I believe them. Either way, he’s fucked for a while.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
I hope they enjoyed 2006.
JI - May 19, 2008
Yeah
Very few guys can comfortably throw 100 for an extended period of time without their arm gradually shredding.
Gomez - May 19, 2008
I wouldn't use the phrase "gradually shredding" to describe what happens.
Edgar for Pres - May 19, 2008
OH MY GOD WHY DO YOU GUYS DRINK SO MUCH BEER?
Phil Hatzenbuehler - May 19, 2008
HEY LOOK AT ME ME MARINERS FAN ME GET TO DRINK BEER
AND DRIVE DRUNK AND KILL EVERYBODY HEHEHEHOOHOOHOO
JI - May 19, 2008
YOU FORGOT THE PART WHERE WE PUKE ON PEOPLE'S LAWNS
Gomez - May 19, 2008
Ive puked on my mayors lawn on the town i live in
wadswerth - May 19, 2008
I downed a quater of a fifth of Barcardi last night
While just staring at that ALCS picture that Jeff posted during the Yankee series a few weekends ago. And was working on a FanPost where I tried to write out the lyrics to “Goodbye Yellow brick Road ” until my friends confiscated my laptop.
Robert - May 19, 2008
So you drank one twentieth of Bacardi?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I dont do math good but it was alot and i'm still feeling it
Robert - May 19, 2008
Churchill thinks Clement will be traded.
I’m kind of glad we’ve given up on the idea of Griffey as our DH.
JI - May 19, 2008
I'm not sure he actually thinks that.
But I am pretty afraid of it.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
You know, given that Joh is probably servicable for the next couple of years
and then we have a few catchers in the minors (say, Adam Moore), I’m not entirely opposed to trading Clement. I just don’t trust Bill Bavasi to get anything worthwhile in return for him.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Let me change it to:
he strongly implied that it would happen before he got a real shot
JI - May 19, 2008
FUCK. THAT.
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
Maybe I'm overeacting
but that’s what I took from his comment.
JI - May 19, 2008
CORRECT LINK
JI - May 19, 2008
I assume so.
The Johjima signing makes no sense otherwise. I don’t see how they could keep him if they want to, other than at DH where he’s less useful.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
I see Clement as a Darren Daulton typr player
(minus being bat-shit crazy, of course), if he’s moved to DH or 1B, he basically turns into Paul Sorrento. We know the Mariners aren’t going to put up with four years where there’s catcher controversy. We also know they don’t cut ties with veterans until they completely roll of the edge of a cliff, and even then typically only in the last year of a contract. This leads me to believe that it’s only a matter of time until Clement is moved for something useful (or something perceived as useful) to plug up a hole on the roster for an 09 run. The only hope I think we have of keeping him is if the scapegoating of Kenji continues (which has its own racist overtones that are a different discussion altogether), the clubhouse sours and he is run out of town this offseason.
JI - May 19, 2008
Don't forget the possibility there's a new front office
this winter.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
How much different could they be from the old one?
JI - May 19, 2008
A lot.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I'm all for someone convincing they can make Lincoln and Chucky more money
I just don’t see it given their absolute contempt for any school of thought post-1980.
JI - May 19, 2008
It's a highly variable thing.
Gillick left, he really wasn’t fired, and he left at the perceived height of the team, after the ‘03 season, so we really haven’t seen what the higher ups would do in response to needing a new front office to radically alter the team. In their minds, they didn’t need a departure from Gillick when they hired Bavasi, why would they? They’d just won some 400 games over the last four years and were raking in tons of money.
If the Ms bottom out and win 70-odd games this year and attendance stays low, do we know what Lincoln and Chuck will look for? I don’t doubt that the number one priority for both of them is to make money first, win games second (or third or Xth), but I also don’t think they’re stupid. It’s unlikely they got to the position they’re at by being bad businessmen, and good businessmen don’t see a failing strategy, fire the guy who implemented it, and then hire someone who’s going to use that same strategy.
I’m not saying it’s likely we get a Freidman-style overhaul, just that it’s possible, and it really all begins with that one hire.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I just don't think they know what good baseball stratgey is
and I am worried they they may just think they were “unlucky” this year. And I worried they think hiring a “nerd” isn’t PR savvy, especially after they have their broadcasters openly mock the methods that successful teams use to win.
JI - May 19, 2008
The Royals and Pirates figured things out
that’s enough to give me at least a glimmer of hope.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
They don't need to identify good baseball strategy to hire a good baseball strategist
I highly doubt things like replacement level come up in GM interviews. It’ll be about the new GM convincing them that his way is the best way to make the team financially healthy in the long run.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Hopefully.
Hopefully they’re not just stubborn old men.
JI - May 19, 2008
I don't think they're stubborn about the baseball side of things.
I just think that $$ = everything to them.
If the team sucks and attendance reflects that…
Matthew - May 19, 2008
The attendiance has yet to become dire.
If it does, yeah I see people getting fired. I’m a bit surprised McLaren hasn’t been fired yet.
JI - May 19, 2008
I know we joke that this team's management can't get much worse
and then we say “just wait” and point to McLaren as Hargrove’s replacement or something. But it won’t be much longer before this team actually can’t get much worse. Clement is probably going to be traded, Beltre may not be re-signed… I’m actually not sure how much worse a new FO could be? Beyond trading Felix, there isn’t much else they can do. There are so few players left that even matter.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Refusing to draft Strasburg if they get the chance would be pretty entertaining
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
I highly doubt we'll get the chance
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Stop being so optimistic about the Mariners winning games
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
If "optimism" = "winning more than the Giants" then I guess that makes me an optimist
I feel like I’m missing out on the warm fuzzies, though.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
The Giants are playing out of their fuking minds right now.
JI - May 19, 2008
I forgot, the Nationals are also terrible
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
The Padres are nothing to write home about either
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
If Peavy's hurt bad, then they too enter the fray
we’re bad, but we’re not bad enough.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
damn the NL and their really crappy teams
and really good teams.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
It feels strange when interleague games aren't automatic losses.
JI - May 19, 2008
referencing my non-Mariner fandom of course
JI - May 19, 2008
I should also point out
that there’s always a chance that the other teams will pass on Strasburg if another prospect emerges between now and next June. The Padres would almost certainly select him, given that he’s worth of #1 already, is from SD, and is a lifelong Padres fan. If you’re going to make the #1 pick in the draft and there’s a kid like that sitting there, it’s a great PR move and a good baseball move.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
like Lincecum would have been >:(
Matthew - May 19, 2008
It's like a giant wall of tears.
JI - May 19, 2008
The one time they don't take the local guy...
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Can you imagine a rotation headed by Bedard, Felix and Lincecum?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
If we had Lincecum we wouldn't have needed Bedard
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Doesn't mean that trade dosen't get made.
JI - May 19, 2008
And also doesn't mean it wouldn't be awesome
and yes, I’d rather have Adam Jones. And GS52. And hell, Chris Tillman and Tony Butler too. But Baltimore can keep Kam Mickolio if they care that much.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Didn't people hate his mechanics, though?
Gomez - May 19, 2008
Like people hating mechanics actually means anything
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
Well, the obvious question becomes then
do you think his mechanics leave him more susceptible to injuries down the road?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
I have no idea
Nobody else does either. It looks like they should, but we just can’t tell.
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
Personally, I really like his mechanics.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
They're friendly and fix his car promptly
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Giants players have really nice cars.
Totally not gamer cars.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
What's a gamer car?
2004 Kia Sonata?
1998 Honda Accord (the non-riced kind)?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
a really muddy jeep with a dented bumper
Matthew - May 19, 2008
There was one of those
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
not muddy enough!
only mildly gamer.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Ahem (I tried finding an angry picture of Zito, but he's too much of a gamer to be angry)
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Also, I'm sure Bocock drives a Jalopy
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Bocock is not a Giant anymore
but soon, he’ll be a Mariner
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Once a Giant, always a Giant
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Like this guy?
Jim Devlin – bats: unknown
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Well he sure doesn't drive a baseball anywhere
Ho ho ho
Alex B - May 19, 2008
Catfight Zito?
Alex B - May 19, 2008
What about Francisco Liriano's mechanics?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Hate the injury history and trace it back to the mechanics
Hating the mechanics is stupid
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
Why wouldn't you hate the mechanics for causing the injury history?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Because you can't tell pre injury whether pitching mechanics are going to hurt someone
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
So, less hate, more feel concern for?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
If you like
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
you're doing the Internet wrong
it’s ok to hate things about which we know nothing. That’s what the internet was based on. That and porn.
pdb - May 19, 2008
I once heard that pdb
is a TOTAL douchebag.
marc w - May 19, 2008
Yeah, that guy SUCKS.
wait, what?
pdb - May 19, 2008
A Strasburg collapse/injury is much more likely than another Strasburg-level talent appearing
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
All I'm saying is that there's a lot of time between now and the draft
and even though right now, he’s certainly the top guy who would be draft eligible, you never know.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
They're going to hit better eventually.
JI - May 19, 2008
That's what we said about Wilkerson, too.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Wilkerson was better than Vidro.
JI - May 19, 2008
So is a goat.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Only if you marry it.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
and then consumate that marrige
JI - May 19, 2008
It's worse if it's a boy goat
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
and then you have to go to the free clinic for STD medicene and run into a cranky doctor
JI - May 19, 2008
"consummate," "marraige," "medicine"
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
oh the irony
“marriage”
pdb - May 19, 2008
I only like this type of irony
when it’s someone else mis-spelling “marriage” :(
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Yeah well there's no spell check in subject lines
JI - May 19, 2008
there's a spell check in your brain
pdb - May 19, 2008
Spell check and subject lines would be a perfect marriage, huh?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
I assume you are mocking me
but I cant tell because that seems like the correct way to spell it
JI - May 19, 2008
It is
I am mocking myself as well as pdb pointed out the incredible irony in my inability to spell the word “marriage” :(
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
He got better
in the form of going away.
Gomez - May 19, 2008
79 OPS+
pitching staff ripe for collaspe
JI - May 19, 2008
I hate when I misspell swear words.
JI - May 19, 2008
If you don't mention it, perhaps you can pass it off as intentional
like you’re trying to be more family friendly… or get around those amusing curse work blocks, so you use words like “fuking,” “chit,” ”@sshole,” etc.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
I agree with you.
We’re just not bad enough.
This is why I look forward to a lineup featuring Vidro, Griffey, and Ibanez.
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
One of these 3 is a pretty good player if they are DHing.
JI - May 19, 2008
Which is why he'll be the one not on the '09 roster
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Ah, that's a good point, I hadn't considered drafting.
Though we’re not perfect at that either. But I was asking a serious question. Assuming we do trade Clement and don’t re-sign Beltre. Beyond… what… Triunfel, Wlad and Felix (2 of which I expect this team to trade as is), what else could a new FO do? There aren’t really any players that matter on this team anymore. Most are on the decline, so replacing them with other declining players don’t matter….
I’m really curious… I don’t think even a worse front office would make any difference right now, but maybe I’m not thinking about certain players.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
*doesn't.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
You can always do worse
always always always.
No single statement contains more truth.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
What if you married a goat?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
You can always do worse
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
What if you signed Barry Bonds to a one year prorated deal for the veteran minimum?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
There is no lower bound to bad, but there is an upper bound to good
this would be such an upper bound
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
you could marry a boy goat
JI - May 19, 2008
Well, okay.
I agree. I think I mean what can we do that would matter to anyone. Yeah, we can replace, say, Ibanez with a 47 year old coming out of retirement John Olerud, but who cares? It may be considerably worse, but “considerably” is on such a low end of the graph as to not really matter.
It’s like working for an entire week and your employer only paying you $1.00 total. You can say “it can’t get worse” and then find out that the next week of work you only get paid $.50, so yea, it got worse, but who cares at that point?
CapSea - May 19, 2008
That's a different question
there’s definitely a diminishing-returns factor when it comes to how we respond to increasingly stupid decisions. (One could argue that we’re already just about maxed out.) But in terms of quantitative team performance, there exists no lower bound.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Yeah, I agree.
I was asking on more of a “who cares” level. And we’re definitely within one or two trades of reaching the point where it doesn’t really matter what they do anymore, because we’re just going to be bad. Maybe varying degrees of bad, but bad enough that those degrees are irrelevant in terms of caring about this team.
One could argue that a 0 win team would actually be more entertaining than a 40 or 50 win team but that’s another issue.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
I think a 0 win team would be the most entertaining thing I've seen
because that’s a level of crapitude (craptitude?) that is completely beyond anything I’ve ever seen in any sport, anywhere.
pdb - May 19, 2008
I don't know
I think that’s too bad, because in order to lose 160+ games, you’d have to basically have a high school team play in the big leagues. It’s fun to watch ineptitude sometimes, but it’s no fun to watch a team get destroyed 15-0 every night.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I think it would be like this season's Dolphins
you’re always on the edge of your seat, because even though you have the #1 pick all locked up, there’s still that drama anytime the game was close after halftime. It’d be the same way – any close game after the 5th or 6th would be must watch TV
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Yeah fuck them
I either wanted them to go 0-16 or get their lone win against NE.
JI - May 19, 2008
Oh God, speaking NE,
I drove out to get some lunch and on the way back, there was a guy with a Patriots sticker, two Red Sox stickers, one for 07, one for 04, a license plate holder that said “BOSTON RED SOX 2007 WORLD CHAMPS” and I SWEAR THIS HAPPENED, his license plate was P8RIATZ.
Yes, I live in SD. Red Sox nation, please go back to Massachusetts.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
You should've egged his car
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
Oh trust me, I wanted to ram it
but I happen to like my car :(
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the '62 Mets set the floor
for how few games a team could win. But still, it’s an intriguing concept.
pdb - May 19, 2008
The Spiders cheated their way to 134 loss glory.
JI - May 19, 2008
I'd like to watch a 0-win team that wins game 1 on September 28th
that would either be the happiest or saddest fan base of all time.
This team is close to leaving us numb and emotionally crippled, but actually getting to that point at which we literally just don’t care anymore…that’s quite a hurdle. Nobody’s dumb enough to trade Felix.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
If it got to where my team was 0-161
I would root as hard as I possibly could for that final loss. To see something that perfect…there’s not a lot a chances in one’s life to see something like that.
pdb - May 19, 2008
And the best part is that in the 162nd game of the season, down 2-1
entering the bottom of the ninth and facing Jonathan Papelbon, Miguel Cairo would hit a line drive single, followed by Vidro hitting a two run walkoff. When he finally finished circling the bases, Bavasi would already have a new three year extension drafted out for him and ready to sign.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
You have a funny definition of "best"
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
I'm the one who wants to trade for Griffey
what do you expect?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Yeah, don't care anymore = I stop watching games
I doubt that ever happens.
Numb = unfazed by their stupidity. That’s already happened.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Even the Giants have a player worth watching
but what if, five years down the road or whatever, the M’s look like the Nationals? How do you watch that?
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Drunk.
pdb - May 19, 2008
make Dimirti Young jokes
JI - May 19, 2008
I'll cross that bridge if it comes
but yeah, if so, the games not watched to watched ratio would probably swing above one.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Looking to trade prospects is never a good thing
It doesn’t seem like teams usually do very well when they actively shop their prospects- and given Bavasi’s history, well…no
Corco - May 19, 2008
eh
I think a challenge trade of good prospects can make sense.
JI - May 19, 2008
Whatever, we can just rush Adam Moore up
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Washburn
Did his relief appearance last week lead to a shuffling of the rotation?
G_ - May 19, 2008
One Tree Hill finale tonight!!!!
This finale brought to you by:
Haha Yankee Stadium is going to be awesome
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
HOLY SHIT THE TIGERS HAVE A WORSE RECORD THAN US?!?!?!?!
JI - May 19, 2008
STRASBURG
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
They'll probably get him anyway
The same way they got Miller and Porcello
discovolante - May 19, 2008
Slot, baby, slot!
The Tigers don’t care about Selig’s damn slot rules!
Gomez - May 19, 2008
God I can't wait for House.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
Is that on tonight?
Thingray - May 19, 2008
It sure is.
It will be awesome
BrianL - May 19, 2008
House or fucking everything?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
House.
No question about it.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
Saw your comments on Baker's blog.
His post disappoints me again. Oh well. I did have some fun with the poll on the M’s website.
Couldn’t believe there were no “none of the above” or “bench” options.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
I can't believe no one voted for F)
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
He's not very good at that either.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
How would you know?
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Have you not seen the Willie Bloomquist sex tape?
Scene 3 is the hottest. It’s him, vegetable oil, and dirt.
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
And eye black. Don't forget eye black.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
::vomit::
BrianL - May 19, 2008
You obviously haven't seen Scene 2
Bloomquist, Eckstein, Erstad, and every sportswriter in America form the largest orgy in the world
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Somehow I'm guessing Barry Bonds wasn't invited
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
It wasn't because of the grit.
It was because he has too big a head.
Thank you, thank you, I’ll be here all week. Don’t forget to tip the waitress.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Had trouble sitting for a month. Painful experience.
Not worth talking about.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Trying something new?
This does not look like an Asian chick to me
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Not above the waist, no.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
When I see Willie Bloomquist,
have of me wants to take him out, talk to him, be real nice and sweet and treat him right. The other half wonders what his head would look like on a stick
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
*half
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I really want to give Baker the benefit of the doubt
but the last month has forced me to give up on him. Either he really doesn’t “get it” or he’s just trying to pick a fight with the blogosphere. Either way it’s lousy journalism.
Even his own blog commenter’s have turned on him. A small handful of people agree with his idea that Vidro > Clement, but most people are calling him on his bullshit now.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
Yeah, it's too bad.
His posts may be poor, but he’s still good at beat writing. He is getting nothing but attacks now so I expect him to resign soon, which is probably why he has had people fill in for him time and again of late.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
In his defense
very few people thought the team would be this horrendous, and it’s got to be really hard covering a team with playoff aspirations that just falls on its face early in the season like this.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
He makes direct attacks now.
He deserves some backlash. Doesn’t mean he’s bad at his job. I still expect him to quit, considering the frequency of attacks thrown at him on a regular basis.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
I'm a little surprised at all the shit Baker gets
Is this his reward for being infinitely better than Pocket Lint and trying to interact with the fans and blogosphere? Sure, he’s not a very good analyst, but so what? He’s a journalist.
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
He actually will ask the manager questions posed by the fans.
There are probably 50 people who frequent this site that are much betters analysts than he is. He should stick to beat writing and giving us tours of the ballparks.
JI - May 19, 2008
This isn't fair
Just because people are better than him at something means he shouldn’t be allowed to try his hand too? Everyone has to learn.
Sure, I give people a lot of grief for coming over here and being stupid, but this is our house and we don’t like getting retard on the carpet. People shouldn’t be getting flamed on their own blogs. Disagreed with, certainly, but the kind of shit Baker gets (and yes, he does bring some of it onto himself but whatever)... that’s just not right.
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
I think we here all agree on this, though.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
yeah
JI - May 19, 2008
I think he goes over the line when he calls people losers
and attributes strawman arguments to them.
JI - May 19, 2008
If I disagree with his analysis
I’ll state why and then back it up. However there are a lot of people there who resort to shit-throwing as opposed to any rational, well-thought argument.
Geoff takes more shit than he deserves, but on the same token, he can ignore it. Some of his debates with Adam were good stuff, but when he resorts to devoting entire blog posts to bashing the idiots who post there his writing quality suffers.
Geoff doesn’t have to be an analyst. He’s a great beat-writer.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
He's a good journalist/reporter.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I think so too
I can kinda understand why he says what he says. Personally, I’m not sure he really believes a lot of it, because some of it makes no sense at all (Shifting Raul to DH is gonna throw off his game? Uhh, he was our DH for all of 2005)....
He’s a beat writer and his ties to the team are important, he has to have a good relationship with them or he might lose access to some of his sources and whatnot. He has to interact with those people on a daily basis and if he were half as openly critical of them as most of us would like him to be that would make his job much more difficult, and he’d probably be hurting the quality of the unbiased information he provides because his opinions…which is kinda the opposite of what a journalist is trying to do.
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
I think it's a direct result of making his site too good a forum for discussion.
For a long time – and for good reason – he promoted open dialogue and he started discussions by presenting some opinion. People agreed, disagreed, etc., but it didn’t matter.
What happened now is that it has come back to bite him. When he openly disagrees with some stats or opinions, and he is clearly wrong, all of those people that used to be participating in open discussion are now attacking him for his incorrect analysis – a direct result of his doing too good a job earlier presenting himself as if he actually is good an analysis, which it turns out he is not.
Now that he is getting attacked, he, too, has become more offensive, and starts to attack back, and the whole thing spirals from there.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
It's not a result of an open forum.
It’s a result of attacking. The attacking is optional (on both sides).
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I disagree.
Most other times blogs don’t even get commenters at all, let alone 150 a day. But regardless, the conclusion is still the same.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Well also, for a beat writers blog,
Geoff’s is a hell of a lot better than most of the crap out there.
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I think he's leading up to Sturgeon's Law
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Which one?
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I think 2nd
That is the 90% one, right?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I'm not aware if they're numbered or not
I just know there’s two. And I know the one to which you refer.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I think that one is Sturgeon's Revelation
Graham MacAree - May 19, 2008
That we agree overall,
but I think it is the result of an open forum, even though the result is the same (attacking is optional, etc.).
CapSea - May 19, 2008
He's a great beat writer
but my problem is that he’s just picking fights now. If he would just stick to reporting what’s going on in the clubhouse, I’m fine. That’s why I liked Baker’s blog.
Hell, his coverage of the Winter Meetings was fantastic. When he’s doing stuff like that I really enjoy his material.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
I agree, he does pick fights now.
In fact, he has started to actually insult the beliefs of not just the blogosphere but also his own commenters. As I said, he has earned some of the flack he has received, and it has caused the quality of his writing to go down.
That said, his beat writing ability is still good. He is, generally, good at his job. So him leaving is not a good thing. But I expect him to do so anyway, within the not too distant future.
CapSea - May 19, 2008
At which point we find out that Reed was in fact called up to replace Baker and not Raul.
Alex B - May 19, 2008
Well, THAT would qualifiy as "something stupid"
The Mariners have reduced us to this – wondering if the new backup LF is going to be the new beat writer instead
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
Dammit Geoff
This is exactly what’s getting you in trouble.
Why are you picking these fights?
BrianL - May 20, 2008
...
Huh, Geoff?
What the hell happened there yesterday?
seattlebruin - May 20, 2008
A lot of people (his own followers included) called bullshit
when Geoff suggested Vidro was a better option at DH than Clement, and a better option than shifting Raul to DH and placing Reed in LF.
Now it looks as if he’s gotten very defensive/assholish as a result of the backlash.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Maybe instead of DRaysBay invasion we should have
Geoff Baker’s blog invasion. Then maybe Geoff will be happy about people who know baseball chatting on his blog… and flaming each other less.
Though the guy who told him to go back to Toronto was amusing.
seattlebruin - May 20, 2008
We would be massacared
Robert - May 20, 2008
We could Corcobomb and deploy Coach Owens to cover our retreat if it came to that
Graham MacAree - May 20, 2008
I think we should keep Coach Owens in reserve
in case we ever invade Halos Heaven and need someone to cover a quick getaway.
seattlebruin - May 20, 2008
An invasion of Halos Heaven will never happen.
That’s like invading most of Canada. Why bother?
BrianL - May 20, 2008
To display our dominance. Also, pre-emptive strike.
also, you know how US cities have sister cities and such? We should have sister SBN blogs – we should make DRB our sister blog.
seattlebruin - May 20, 2008
I'm not comfortable with having a sister that hot.
JI - May 20, 2008
I'd rather be DRB's bitch, personally.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Which is why I don't want to think of them as my sister.
JI - May 20, 2008
I think we come the same blood line as the Arizona Cardinals
Robert - May 20, 2008
I made the mistake of posting Beltre's LD% and BABIP over there.
The results were predictably bad.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Link. I could use a laugh. Or a beer.
I’m trying to plan a dinner for my senior friends and one of the girls that I’m supposed to be working with has learned from her new boyfriend that when you don’t get your way, passive-aggressively bitch whine and moan until people get tired of you and give in. The results have not been good.
seattlebruin - May 20, 2008
Meh.
I’m not going to dig into that archive to find it. All that really happened is the statistics I posted were promptly dismissed because Beltre is “unclutch” and a free-swinging loser who is a “bust.”
He promptly hit a game-winning home run that day.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
He's so unclutch
Graham MacAree - May 20, 2008
If he were actually clutch he wouldn't have to hit
clutch game-winning hits.
Matthew - May 20, 2008
What a selfish, unclutch bastard.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Ugh.
CapSea - May 20, 2008
It's really to the point where all you can do is shake your head.
I don’t know what happened to my favorite beat-writer. He seems to be wearing thin even with Dave Cameron.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Well...
Dave has never been shy about openly responding to Baker’s comments. But he still likes him and defends him in the comments section of his blog most of the time;
CapSea - May 20, 2008
I'm not quite sure why, really.
All he seems to do is attack everything Dave tries to do, including attacking the basic premise of USSM as not understanding what baseball is about.
If he makes a valid point, it’s ignored, and if he openly disagrees, he’s snapped at, usually under the name “some blogs”.
I would say I refuse to go there anymore, but reading that crap is a quick way to wake yourself in the morning, and be alert and ready to drive on NJ highways.
Faux - May 20, 2008
Ugh.
CapSea - May 20, 2008
Where's the Offday House Season Finale thread?
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
Is this the "final" of the finale? It's not a three-part episode, is it?
Thingray - May 19, 2008
Nope, this is the final of the finale
pdb - May 19, 2008
Sweet.
If it was on again next Monday I’d miss the end.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
There's no way in hell I'm opening something like that this early
it would be a complete disaster.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Come on man.
Live a little.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
Hell no
you people will sit and think on-topic thoughts and like it.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Oh you're no fun anymore.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
Trust me, this is in everybody's best interests
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
And the Python reference goes *whoosh*
BrianL - May 19, 2008
I know the Lumberjack Song if that makes you feel better.
JI - May 19, 2008
Everyone knows the Lumberjack song.
BrianL - May 19, 2008
Well this sub-thread has ceased to be.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
everyone knows the dead parrot sketch too.
JI - May 19, 2008
That's it. I'm tossing in the Holy Hand Grenade.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
5
CapSea - May 19, 2008
Yes sir.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
Living is bad
it leads to discussions about tuna hotpockets
JI - May 19, 2008
Cameron's butt > Squinty's butt.
Phil Hatzenbuehler - May 19, 2008
I'm trying to get you fired.
JI - May 19, 2008
What is that from?
Katal LM - May 19, 2008
I don't expect it open until 8:59.59
Because, in addition to it being a disaster, some asshole will eventually spoil the episode.
JI - May 19, 2008
It's not lupus.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
We don't know that yet.
JI - May 19, 2008
Maybe I do....
I have my fingers in many sinister stews.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
I'm not even going to touch an open House thread.
I’ll stop by after I watch it in peace.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Actually the finale has tripped me out so far, because I missed so much of the season leading up to it.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
The best I could offer would be a
HOLY SHIT! or STFU CAMERON!
during the commercial
JI - May 19, 2008
House starts in 50 minutes!
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Fox Sports article
they’ve got a nice little article up about the frugalness of using homegrown talent over high priced free agents.. comparing the big spending teams records against the low payroll teams to this point in the season.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8152284/New-ideology-will-be-on-display-this-week-
MfaninAlaska - May 19, 2008
so we just picked up Tracey Thorpe
InSpokane - May 19, 2008
There's a third black man in Canada?
JI - May 19, 2008
well he was in Syracuse
but we have him now
InSpokane - May 19, 2008
HIDE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN!!!
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
according to my "M's update txt"
InSpokane - May 19, 2008
meh
Matthew - May 19, 2008
what do you think they're going to do with him? he was a closer in Syracuse
InSpokane - May 19, 2008
Tacoma?
Too bad he can’t take Morrow’s spot so he can go down and work on starting.
Thingray - May 19, 2008
I think the answer of "meh" the first time should have been all the explanation necessary
seattlebruin - May 19, 2008
BTW the rerun of OTH was ridiculous today.
Season 1 episode like 6. or 5. whatever.
I’d say what channel it was on, but then I’d have to kill myself
Fantastic episode though
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Ummm,,, so i recovered from the Tequila
That was a poor choice…So? What we drinking tonight?
And Jeff Hamilton hit a HR in the first inning
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Josh Hamilton hits home runs in several innings
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Is he your favorite no Mariner?
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Top ten
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
#1=Broussard?
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
No
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Reallly? Then who is?
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
#1 The Toronto Blue Jays Brad Wilkerson?
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Tequila is never a good idea
Never.
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
Well i had a great time
was having trouble with trying to figure out what was going on in the gameday thread, but on the LL gameday, thats not anything new
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Corconcurred
unless beautiful girls are giving out body shots
Corco - May 19, 2008
Patron is the best one I've had and it never gave me a hang over.
The Reposado is the smoothest of them all.
Susheel Ramasahayam - May 19, 2008
Cancerboy with a no-hitter through 6
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
You'll have to specify which cancerboy
unless Doug Davis is Cancerman.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
He's talking about Jon "We want mo'" Lester
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
Davis is man.
Lester is boy
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
WTF is this shit.
GAY
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
I may never watch this show again WTF
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Which one?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
OTH
just started with Gav in ?Degraw singing to a 5 year old boy
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
oh thank god
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
I was thisclose to turning it off
but now we gettin somwhere
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Buuuuhwaaaa?
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
If you're talking about House I'm going to kill you
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
I think he means OTH
Otherwise this makes no sense at all
OlSalty - May 19, 2008
Yeah obviously
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Nah, House is intense
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
No.
House is
intensegood.Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
Nah, House is not gay
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Brooke in a bikini makes me feel better
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
I just saw Fred Durst's name in the credits for this episode. I feel disappointed already
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
He was the bartender last week.
JI - May 19, 2008
CTB is not hot at all
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
This is so BS
You can’t just chill in someone else’s hospital room without being family…especially when you’re a convicted murderer
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
fuckin ugly baby
Nathan better start playing ball very soon
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Journey to the Center of the Earth...
Stupid or not stupid? I can’t decide
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
the book? awesome
the upcoming movie? looks decidedly stupid.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I was gonna say terrible.
But then I saw dinosaurs…so it’s a wash. I am basically a 10 year old child. If I see a dinosaur I get hard
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
I hate it when film destroys good literature
so I won’t be seeing it, but it might be fine on its own.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
I just went on the OTH IMDB boards
What the fuck. The fact that I have something in common with these people angers me.
Need more basketball and fighting
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
He's starting to understand...
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I still love the show but Jesus Christ
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
What's OTH?
Fin - May 19, 2008
One Tree Hill
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Yes I know
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
I didn't
Fin - May 19, 2008
I meant "Yes I know it's gay"
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
YES
basketball and fighting
God listens
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
FUCKKKKKKKKK
he stops playing because his son says its okay. Fuck that shit Nathan
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Make it rain like you fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
GET THE FUCK OUT LINDSEY YOU SLUT was not supposed to be in caps
godammit this episode sucks donkey dick
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
nohitter nohitter nohitter
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Why are you rooting against him?
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
Because I don't want to hear ESPN suck his cock for the next year+
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
But he's from Tacoma!
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
This is me not caring
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Eh. He's on the Red Sox. Why does it matter where hes from?
BrettJMiller - May 19, 2008
He went to Bellarmine Prep
that makes him doubly loathsome.
He also graduated a year before me. I guess if I had continued playing baseball there is a chance I might have faced him. He was probably varsity the year I was a freshman so I probably never saw him.
bluemax - May 19, 2008
he went to Bellarmine Prep?
Screw that fucker
Corco - May 19, 2008
Because fuck the red sox that's why
And he probably milks his cancer too much like in the something awful thread
BrettJMiller - May 19, 2008
German Pena DeJesus
FUCK
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
COME ON ROYALS
MFAN - May 19, 2008
Jesus
Leadoff walk…pena swing swing
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Stop swinging at balls
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Fucking moron
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
cancer cancer cancer
MFAN - May 19, 2008
It all rests on Callaspo
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
FUck Dan kill him you pussy
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Fuck you OTH writers you really choked on a cock here.
I have made a poor choice tonight
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
GODM DAMMIT CANCER
YOU DONT DESERVE IT.
ESPN-”Lester and Buchholz OMG SPLAAAATTT”
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
ugh, horrendous
made worse by the fact that Lester has been ungood all year and how he has a shiny ERA and a no-no. I’m so glad I don’t follow the MSM.
Matthew - May 19, 2008
Whatever...I'm happy for him..I don't care what you all think
Good for Lester…just avoid all those ESPN channels and it’ll go away.
kentroyals5 - May 19, 2008
Brooke stop crying you look less hot
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Seriously..no one cares about your One Tree Hill bullshit
kentroyals5 - May 19, 2008
Aight solid I'll stop
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
It's just the play-by-play that's really annoying
kentroyals5 - May 19, 2008
Yeah I got you.
Honestly I didn’t even realize how much I was posting. Too much…
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Yes basketball!
If this ends up not happening I will be furious
dbroncos31 - May 19, 2008
Oh the stupidity of the Mariners Mailbag!
This from “Kara M.”: “Why is Willie Bloomquist not an everyday player? In my opinion, he is one of the best players on the club and he deserves so much more playing time. He could really help the Mariners so much!”
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
At this point he is damn close to being one of the best 9 overall players on the club
Corco - May 19, 2008
He's better than our DH
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Man this team is sad.
Fin - May 19, 2008
This is the best example of that sadness.
JI - May 19, 2008
After the Open House thread I think this is a poor example
Robert - May 20, 2008
That thread is the best example of sadness in genreal,
not the team’s sadness.
JI - May 20, 2008
When I clicked on this thread I was afraid I'd see House spoilers from people back East
seeing that Lester threw a no-hitter is worse.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
So you'd rather House spoilers?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I swear to God if anyone issues any House spoilers (even fake ones), they get an instant perma-ban
I’m not kidding either.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
No Vasgerian tonight?
Is that normal?
JI - May 19, 2008
Must be taking a day off
he sounded pretty fed up over the weekend. Probably just needs a break from that sack of crap team.
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Dave neihaus would have died on three spereate occaisons alredy.
I was hoping for his reaction to the latest Ryan Ludwick homer.
JI - May 19, 2008
http://ussmariner.com/2005/05/31/ryan-ludwick/
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
I liked the pickup at the time.
But I never expected that he would demand starting.
We have to be the last org on earth that doesn’t understand this concept—or at least understand it enough to see that it’s ok to give these guys significant roles.
JI - May 19, 2008
and I find it comical
that Cleveland traded one at bat of Juan Gonzalez for him.
JI - May 19, 2008
That's extreme
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
I don't care
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Jeff isn't messing around either.
Fin - May 19, 2008
I thought it was generous seeing as there was no genocide involved.
JI - May 19, 2008
I agree with this round of banhammer rules
marinator - May 19, 2008
Why isnt this a TB Ray imvasion night?
TB 0
Oak 3
2nd inning
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
House
JI - May 19, 2008
IMO, House was sub par tonight...
enjoy
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Does this count as a spoiler?
JI - May 19, 2008
No because he's probably still drunk
Jeff Sullivan - May 19, 2008
Still, I like to go in fresh.
JI - May 19, 2008
I thought Seinfeld was a dead meme?
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
It's not Seinfeld a meme if I don't realize I'm referencing Seinfeld.
(I now I realize that, yes, indeed I was)
JI - May 19, 2008
No time like the present for a night cap....
enjoy House
laxtonto - May 19, 2008
Well, kiddies, enjoy House in an hour
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 19, 2008
It's not two hours long?
Coach Owens - May 19, 2008
agreed
east coast
PShwa - May 19, 2008
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Lookout Landing to post a comment.