For a while, now - even with the team playing terrible baseball - I think every single one of us has been holding on to a faint glimmer of hope. Just the slightest little bit, even while conceding that the season is almost assuredly over. "It's too early to give up on the guys," we tell ourselves. "Still plenty of time to stage a comeback. Besides, if they start playing up to their expectations, they could turn this race around in a hurry. 1-2 punch, right?"
Right. In theory. If tomorrow this team suddenly started playing like the front office assumed it would out of the gate, then they'd still stand a half-decent chance of going somewhere, huge gap and all. For a team as good as Bavasi, McLaren, and a handful of fans thought had been assembled back in March, no mid-May standings would be too unsightly to overcome.
But here's the problem with that: what people believed in Spring Training doesn't mean that much anymore.
Certain things that people were banking on a few months ago have been...well I won't say they've been proven incorrect, since I don't want Tango and MGL jumping all over me for reading too deeply into early-season performance, but certain things have not gone as expected, and as such, they're forcing us to reconsider the reality. And in so doing, we have to let go of the idea of this team starting to play like the executives thought it was supposed to, because the new information we've gleaned from the games has lowered the true talent level of the roster by a pretty fair margin.
For the team to henceforth start playing like the pitching-heavy contender as which it was billed, it would have to meet those springtime expectations set by management and the coaching staff. Bedard would have to pitch like an ace. Felix would have to pitch like an ace. Silva would have to pitch like a #2/#3. The bullpen would have to protect late leads. The defense would have to help guys like Silva and Washburn turn balls in play into outs. Ichiro would have to hit at a high clip. Sexson would have to rebound. Ibanez would have to keep things up. And the supporting cast would have to pick up enough slack to keep this offense consistent and moderately productive.
A few months ago, all of these sounded at least somewhat reasonable. Obviously, few of us around here believed they'd all come true, but my point is that, at the very least, a case could be made for each and every one of them. And that meant that, under those circumstances, this team stood a decent chance of contending for the crown.
But now we have new information. New information that, had we known it back in March, would've left us a great deal more bearish regarding the team's chances of getting anywhere. Bedard has regressed and carries injury concerns. Felix is inconsistent. Silva's a pumpkin who's shown no magical newfound ability to retire left-handed hitters. The bullpen's struggled to throw strikes, devastated by JJ's absence. The defense seems to have only gotten worse. Ichiro hasn't been anywhere close to last year's unsustainable .351. There's no indication that Sexson's anything but toast. And the supporting cast has been a disaster, with Beltre being the only guy to demonstrate any semi-consistent ability to get on base. On the offensive side, only three players have managed to perform as expected. Everybody else - for reasons ranging from bad luck to presumed deadsville - has been a disappointment. And that's bad news for a team whose pitching staff hasn't held up its own end of the bargain.
This new information has limited value on its own, but when integrated with what we already knew before, it starts to change the picture. Take Sexson, for example. His community projection last winter came in at a full season of .247/.329/.457. Nothing great, but a significant rebound from his nightmare 2007. Most people thought he'd be able to recover at least a small portion of his losses. But what if we asked for another community projection? What do you think people would say about Sexson now? I guarantee you that the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction. Instead of expecting a bounceback, the majority of people are presumably now convinced that Sexson's just done as a hitter, and that his current line's about as good as it's going to get. So where, before the year, it seemed reasonable to think he'd rebound a little, now it seems far more likely that he won't, which takes a chunk out of those contending-team forecasts.
Do this for every data point. Look at what we thought, look at the new information that we have, and consider how it changes things. Needless to say, it changes things quite a bit. There's still a possibility of, say, Richie bouncing back, or the defense regressing way closer to the league average, but these possibilities are far less likely now than we thought they were two months ago, which renders those springtime projections as less of an objective exercise and more of an optimistic daydream.
To say that the Mariners could wake up tomorrow and start playing like a 90-win baseball team would be strange, but it wouldn't be impossible. Worse teams have ripped off crazier hot streaks. However, that glimmer of hope we've all had that this team could find its identity and play like the front office thought it would play...with all the new information we have about these guys, it just doesn't make sense anymore. Not that it necessarily ever did, but now it's become such a long shot that anyone still clinging to it I imagine I won't be able to take seriously. The odds are just that bad.
The Mariners aren't as bad as their record currently shows. They're not a 63-99 true talent team. But with that said, if there's anything we've learned from the first seven weeks of the season, it's that they're not a 90-72 true talent team, either. Far from it. This team isn't good, and while I cringe at being the guy responsible for throwing water on that last little spark of hope in your heart (if that spark can actually be extinguished, of which I'm not sure), I think it's the healthiest way. Only when you surrender can you finally find joy in a season so dire.
Biggest Contribution: Adrian Beltre, +7.3%
Biggest Suckfest: Carlos Silva, -35.3%
Most Important AB: Beltre homer, +10.1%
Most Important Pitch: Renteria triple, -15.8%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -36.7%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -13.5%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +0.2%
(What is this chart?)
0 recs | 77 comments
I still think we should throw up a "Race for Stephen Strasburg" sidebar if possible.
SethGrandpa - May 20, 2008
I'm not 100% certain on these numbers, but I've been playing around with the numbers
and every single Mariner SP has a below average tRA.
Matthew - May 20, 2008
Zuh? Felix?
How?
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
Upon closer inspection, yeah, Felix too.
Man.
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
Question for those of you smarter than me
~BakerI don’t exactly remember Ichiro charging in on the play, I thought the outfield was playing somewhat shallow. How much of that triple is Ichiro’s fault?
BrianL - May 20, 2008
ICHIRO HURTS THIS TEAM WITH FAULTY SPLIT SECOND JUDGMENTS
Not the best week for Geoff Baker, that’s for sure.
Gomez - May 20, 2008
He was playing shallow
On replay you can’t see his first step – Baker was there, maybe Ichiro took a step or two towards the plate before backtracking – but by the looks of things there was really nothing he could’ve done. The ball was just a foot or three out of his reach.
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2008
That's what I was thought.
Even if he didn’t take a step towards home like Baker suggests, I don’t think Ichiro gets to that ball.
Of course, we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Greasy could keep the ball on the fucking ground like he was advertised to do when we gave him a shitload of money.
BrianL - May 20, 2008
Silva's GB% is decidedly below-average
Glorious.
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2008
You will owe me 1.50 by the season's end.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Great.
We’ve got the right-handed Latino Washburn.
Fucking great.
BrianL - May 21, 2008
Who also has greasy hair and 50 more pounds of fat
Fin - May 21, 2008
And about $8M more guaranteed over another two years after Wash
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
Mojo Risin'
Yessirree….
ThundaPC - May 21, 2008
Well, that worked too.
So a general question: Is Silva’s production really much of a surprise? The people on this blog were the ones that taught me about his terrible pitching against lefties, contact hitting, etc. It should seem like more people are indifferent to his current level of production due to expectations rather than upset by it.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Silva lives and dies with his defence
He’s still average in front of a team reasonably good at fielding, but with our gloves looking as bad as they do…
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
And Safeco.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
His walks are up too
or at least hi walks/9
It might be because he is (presumably) facing more batters
Still, a guy like Silva can’t approach anywhere close to 2 per 9 and expect to win.
JI - May 21, 2008
Yeah, his core stats (I refuse to call them peripherals) are going south too, and that's worrying
But I think it’s mostly defence that’s making him look craptastic.
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
...which would be the facing more batters part
JI - May 21, 2008
I wasn't talking about /9.
When you look at his per batter numbers walks are up a hair and strikeouts are down. Probably just a sample size thing but still not good.
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
I would hope that his walk rate is just a minor fluke
from, say, having to pitch around a good lefty because there are guys on second and third (from Ibanez Helen Kellering about the OF) and he doesn’t want the game broken open.
But yeah, he’s being murdered by the defense, when his ability starts to slip even a bit he’ll be completely useless, and I’d guess he’d be a pretty good candidate for a decline in skills given his physical condition.
JI - May 21, 2008
You mean "fat"?
CapSea - May 21, 2008
yeah his is fat
Vidro is rubenesque
JI - May 21, 2008
"given his physical condition"
That cracked me up.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
I wouldn't say it's a surprise, or even particularly upsetting
it’s just the natural tendency for fans to respond more strongly to someone about whom they’ve been skeptical all along.
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
I may be misjudging it.
But it feels like it is being seen as a surprise/upsetting.
High hopes? No, of course not. Sign any mediocre pitcher for 4/48 and it is unlikely any M’s fan has realistic high hopes/expectations, especially on this website. But before the season started and pretty consistently of late it seems like the reaction is that he is pitching the worst baseball of his career (with the reaction being: “Of course he’d do that NOW, since the Mariners just signed him). Even if that is the case, with our defense (as Graham said) and Safeco, some of the worst numbers of his career could have been expected – even if he was the exact same pitcher as before, yeah?
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Safeco's sort of a pretty extreme pitcher's park
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
He's bad against Lefties.
And Safeco is made for lefties. So I’d assume that Lefties will succeed against him because of the right side, and righties would succeed against him because Raul is an useless broom on the left.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
It would still surpress his HR rate v. RHers
...or you think it would
JI - May 21, 2008
Enh
It’s good for lefties hitting homers. There are other effects which would still hurt them.
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
Well, I somewhat mean homers.
They pump up your stats pretty high if you give up too much of them. I found this from USSM (bottom of the post) to back up my point.
At Safeco and with Raul in left, it seems like it would have been impossible for Silva to put up good numbers. That’s why I had given him such a low estimate for “ERA+” (bad stat) when the season started.
Add that he’s declining/regressing/sucking or what have you and he gets exponentially worse.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
*basic stats, of course.
Not necessarily all of the advanced metrics.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Those home runs to lefties are important, yes
But overall Safeco is going to help him more than hurt him.
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
I''m not only pissed we signed him for $texas, but
...advanced analysis says he sucks, shitty W-L ERA results based analysis says he sucks, and he doesn’t exactly have the kind of stuff that would wow scouts either. These fuckers can’t even play by their own rules, they threw a lot of money at a guy that the knew was not good. Fuck these lazy ass motherfuckers and their chemistry bullshit.
JI - May 21, 2008
Advanced analysis does NOT say he sucks. It says he's a ~average pitcher
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
Yeah, excuse my use of the word suck
I meant mediocre.
JI - May 21, 2008
I case you can't tell
I dislike watching him pitch.
JI - May 21, 2008
Oh I really hate watching him too
Although not as much as I hate watching Batista
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
Batista usually leads to some entertaining gamethreads
Robert - May 21, 2008
The "Tits" nickname, and that not completely horrible contract
make it bearable.
But it would be unwatchable without a game threrad or someone sitting next to you to hear your various witty remarks.
JI - May 21, 2008
I hate it when pitchers don't throw strikes
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
I hate it when they don't throw
JI - May 21, 2008
...and I have to yell DO SOMETHING at the screen
JI - May 21, 2008
That adds to my irritation when I'm already annoyed
It just seems like every other start Batista will walk 5 guys in one inning, and that makes me angry
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
Of course I'm not watching at 2 in the morning.
JI - May 21, 2008
Batista (or at least last year's version)
was an average SP with an average contract. No complaints there. I just don’t like watching him pitch because I have better things to do with my life than watch him walk the world, stand there, and listen to Dave or Rick or Mike tell me about how he writes poetry and plays jazz.
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
Given his physical condition,
Carlos Silva is a fat fuck.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
I don't think anyone thinks he's pitching the worst baseball of his career
two years ago he posted an FIP of 5.76. He’s just experiencing all the fluctuations of a guy who doesn’t strike anyone out, and people are reacting to this because it’s a lot more satisfying to make fun of somebody because of something you expected all along.
I don’t rip into Jeremy Bonderman because I have no reason to care about Jeremy Bonderman. But I love ripping into Barry Zito and the Giants because we all knew that was a bad idea at the time, and it’s fun to play the I-told-you-so game.
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
We're probably not done sucking yet.
ThundaPC - May 21, 2008
I'd say our suck is not correlated to the teams we play.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Danger! Impending Strasburg!
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
Why is that a danger?
Danger to us from suicide when the M’s turn him into a middle reliever who throws the ball 101 MPH?
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
Good thing we jumped out to that early lead while the Angels were hurt and we had an easy schedule.
Bring ‘em on!
Teej - May 21, 2008
I feel so stupid for thinking we were the 05 Astros minus Lance Berkman
JI - May 21, 2008
....you would expect a good team to play .500 during that stretch.
JI - May 21, 2008
We might scrape .350 if we get lucky a few times :)
Graham MacAree - May 21, 2008
CapSea - May 21, 2008
let me guess which team Giambi will be facing when his luck begins to even out
JI - May 21, 2008
Open for business
ThundaPC - May 21, 2008
.146 BABIP
unreal
The guy still has something in the tank at 37. If he can survive this season with out a serious injury. He’d be worth a flyer at DH for a non-Raul team. Return to Oakland?
JI - May 21, 2008
I thought Oakland was mad at him.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
No, Oakland holds no grudges
past the first year or two. Remember, Giambi jumped to the Yankees, after the A’s had been eliminated in the playoffs by the Yankees for several of the years around 2000-2003.
After they stopped playing the Yankees in the playoffs, and Giambi got (hurt/sick/both) and could not play at all, Oakland kind of put him in “museum” status.. “Remember Giambi? Who? Oh, yeah, with the brother..”
Really, the A’s just have better options at present. Even the older Frank Thomas is a better DH than Giambi. FT’s starting to heat up (3 hrs two games). The A’s are lush with potential DHs, led by Cust and Mike Sweeney.
Giambi?? Already bought that “Street Sheet” you’re sellin’.....
One won lost won - May 21, 2008
yeah, not really.
JI - May 26, 2008
Damn, .350?!
That’s Ichiro and George Brett-esque
Oh… you meant winning percentage…
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
Tango's book costs 50 dollars?
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Raul killing the team defensively
but he’s no where near alone this year…..
RZR ratings so far for AL players (out of qualified players)
Sexson 3rd worst first baseman
Lopez 4th worst second baseman
Beltre 2nd worst third baseman
Betencourt worst Shortstop
Ibanez 3rd worst LF
Ichiro 5th worst CF
MfaninAlaska - May 21, 2008
Well, ouch.
You can tell defense is down across the board but I had no idea how far down it’s gone.
ThundaPC - May 21, 2008
And more than awesomely
coming into the season, we pegged Beltre and Yuni as good to great defensive players and Ichiro and Lopez as passably average at worst.
Although Lopez hasn’t looked that bad to me. I’m surprised by that result, honestly. It may just be the Loafie goggles though.
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
OOZ makes some of those guys (Beltre) look a little better
but yeah, it’s not all Ibanez.
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
Just Glancing over OOZ
Sexson 3rd best (16…. Best in AL has 19)
Lopez 4th best (10…. Best in AL has 13)
Beltre Best (29 … Next best 16)
Betancourt 13th (6 … Best in AL 25)
Ibanez 3rd best (17… Best in AL 26)
Ichiro 5th best (23 … Best in AL 29)
MfaninAlaska - May 21, 2008
Well some of those can't be right.
CapSea - May 21, 2008
Ibanez's seems low actually
He’s got 90 putouts on the season, and I refuse to believe that there have been 73 balls hit within a four foot radius of him in left field already.
seattlebruin - May 21, 2008
Yuni is such a damn mess
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2008
I'm admittedly a bit at sea with defensive metrics,
but I have real trouble with the Beltre and Ichi ratings. Betancourt, on the other hand, has totally lost that which was thought to be his greatest asset. What a sad team.
Paytheline - May 21, 2008
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