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DER and You

DER is the ratio of balls in play that are turned into an out. Think of it as the inverse of BABIP. Coming into play today, the Mariners defensive efficiency ratio stood at an awe-inspring .678 meaning that Mariner defenders turn 67.8% of balls in play (e.g. HRs excluded) into outs. That is dead last in the American League and only the lowly Pirates have more shame than us in the National League.

Now, there's a pitching aspect to DER as well. Line drives only end up as outs roughly 30% of the time compared to groundballs, bunts and flyballs which all hover around 80% outs. Infield flys are a touch over 90%. Of course, this all varies depending on whose definitions of line drive vs flyball, flyball vs popup, etc that you use, but they're good general guides. So a pitching staff that yields more line drives than usual is going to see a lower DER that's not the fault of the defenders. This was part of the hope for the 2008 Mariners that removing the suck fests of Weaver and Ramirez would make our defense look slightly better.

Well, it hasn't. The 2008 staff is allowing a dead-on league average 19% line drives. They are allowing slightly more flyballs than usual and, since they have an average IF/FB ratio, they are getting more infield flies than average. So, if anything, the pitching staff is gifting the defense easier balls in play than the average American League team. You can see this quantitatively on the THT Team page in the Plus/Minus under Team Fielding Stats. You see both a pitching and a fielding number. That pitching number is exactly what we just described, the number of plays the defense should make over an average squad due to the pitcher's batted ball profile. So, we possess the league's worst defense at turning balls in plays into outs even with some extra help from our pitchers.

The average team faces about 27 balls in play per game. The difference between the Mariners defense and an average AL defense so far is a little over half an out per game, meaning the Ms defense allows a bit over one runner to reach base every two games that an average defense does not. The difference between the Mariners league-worst defense and the Blue Jays league-best defense is over 1.25 batters every single game. Every. Single. Game. In relative terms, Mariner pitchers have to record 28.27 outs every game compared to Toronto's 27.

Defense is not a strength of ours.

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Comments

That corresponds with rougly a 0.25 increase in ERA.

Fun.

Another way to put it is that Toronto's defense has already been 45-50 runs better than ours
So what you're saying is that if we had Toronto's defense

we wouldn’t necessarily be dead right now – more like 22-26 or 23-25?

Seems accurate.
Kind of like, say, Toronto
More diversity though
I dislike diverse teams.
Diversity is stupid
WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS
We make up for racial diversity with a lineup of mostly DHs
We have excellent diversity in DHs
Not really

they range from suck to really suck. Not too much diversity there.

They suck in multiple ethnicities, though
Toronto has an advantage in on-field brawls.

They just attack all the darkies.

The additional advantage of that is

it would get Shannon Stewart and his 53% ground ball rate out of the lineup.

I've been wondering this

Why do we use DER instead of BABIP? BABIP seems to be a more intuitive number.

You'd rather say we allowed a .322 BABIP instead of having a .678 DER?
Yeah I think that conveys how bad we suck much better.
They're the same number
DER is basically 1-BABIP. It's just an out average on balls in play.
I think i was more asking for historically why do people making stats often have many names

for basically the same stat. Its not really confusing once you know what it is but I’m sure for somebody seeing it all for the first time it probably is annoying.

because BABIP is more thought of as a pitcher's stat

and we’re not trying measure the pitchers. That’s the reasoning anyways.

Just looking at some more THT #s

It seems like Sexson, Beltre, Betancourt, and Ibanez are below league average in RZR, that can’t be good.

I'm not yet at the point where I'm willing to put stock in a single individual measure of defense
I don't blame you.
Toronto's defense is going to win Shaun Marcum a Cy Young award.

That’s quite a feat.

But their offense is going to lose it for him

because Cy Young voters love the W-L record.

That's why Halladay's 280 IP and 18 CG won't win it for him.

So far Marcum’s getting a .824 DER behind him. They don’t need to score much when he’s only allowing 1 run.

They need to score 2

and they have Brad Wilkerson leading off. Who knows, maybe they can ground into two bases loaded no out double plays every game.

Ichiro hurts this team

by not making ESPN highlight reels.

Raul Ibanez hurts this team by pretending to be the DH while playing left field
John McLaren hurts the team by being satisfied with that.

It’s not Raul’s fault.

Well, it's still kinda his fault.
I think we can blame Bavasi too

if we’re not bored with doing that.

I am kinda bored with that, actually

Ironically, I think I’ve blamed everyone associated with this organization for something except maybe Kenji.

Kenji totally deserves much blame.
Not as much as Washburn.
Kenji hurts the team

by throwing the bus wheels out of alignment after Jarrod threw him under the bus.

Yes he does

which is why I find it strange that I haven’t blamed him for anything yet.

Why would you blame Lopez for anything?
I blame Lopez for causing me to be tired at work

because I lose sleep thinking of ways we can promote his ‘08 All-Star campaign

Whoa crazy

you realize that Jarrod threw that fastball 89 mph? Is that the fastest pitch he’s thrown this season?

As you can see

it’s hard tip tie up an opposite handed batter up and in with an 89MPH cockball.

It's like Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball on 64

That was his Super Suck Pitch, hence the increased velocity.

SafeCo gun...
I thought the Safeco gun

was ~average compared to the other parks? I remembered NYY was pretty low (Bedard sat 88-89), but I thought Safeco was pretty decent?

PITCHf/x has it at 89 too

huh

Now I don't have to look it up.
roids
If he's on roids, they're not detectable

He gets angry at his teammates much more easily now
I like the "steriods" version better

:-(

Which makes my removing it from the other gamethread all the more satisfying.
Nope, not on 'roids

The side effects would kill his action with the 16 year olds.

The answer to this is obvious

We need a Gold Glove outfielder like Ken Griffey Jr.

So f'ng rec'd...

‘Cause you know the M’s would be thinking that…

Just to be straight....

The +8 under “Pit” is means that our pitchers have essentially handed the defense 8 plays this season or in other words, if this team had an average defense, they would be +8 in plays made.

But the REALITY is that the M’s are -27?

Doesn’t that REALLY mean that the M’s are -35 then?

Oh man....

KC is brutal….

Pit +19
Fld -22

I believe the -27 accounts for the +8

but I could be wrong.

you are right on the pitchers

the pitchers are +8
the fielders are -27
overall they are -19

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