DER is the ratio of balls in play that are turned into an out. Think of it as the inverse of BABIP. Coming into play today, the Mariners defensive efficiency ratio stood at an awe-inspring .678 meaning that Mariner defenders turn 67.8% of balls in play (e.g. HRs excluded) into outs. That is dead last in the American League and only the lowly Pirates have more shame than us in the National League.
Now, there's a pitching aspect to DER as well. Line drives only end up as outs roughly 30% of the time compared to groundballs, bunts and flyballs which all hover around 80% outs. Infield flys are a touch over 90%. Of course, this all varies depending on whose definitions of line drive vs flyball, flyball vs popup, etc that you use, but they're good general guides. So a pitching staff that yields more line drives than usual is going to see a lower DER that's not the fault of the defenders. This was part of the hope for the 2008 Mariners that removing the suck fests of Weaver and Ramirez would make our defense look slightly better.
Well, it hasn't. The 2008 staff is allowing a dead-on league average 19% line drives. They are allowing slightly more flyballs than usual and, since they have an average IF/FB ratio, they are getting more infield flies than average. So, if anything, the pitching staff is gifting the defense easier balls in play than the average American League team. You can see this quantitatively on the THT Team page in the Plus/Minus under Team Fielding Stats. You see both a pitching and a fielding number. That pitching number is exactly what we just described, the number of plays the defense should make over an average squad due to the pitcher's batted ball profile. So, we possess the league's worst defense at turning balls in plays into outs even with some extra help from our pitchers.
The average team faces about 27 balls in play per game. The difference between the Mariners defense and an average AL defense so far is a little over half an out per game, meaning the Ms defense allows a bit over one runner to reach base every two games that an average defense does not. The difference between the Mariners league-worst defense and the Blue Jays league-best defense is over 1.25 batters every single game. Every. Single. Game. In relative terms, Mariner pitchers have to record 28.27 outs every game compared to Toronto's 27.
Defense is not a strength of ours.
0 recs | 62 comments
That corresponds with rougly a 0.25 increase in ERA.
Fun.
Graham MacAree - May 23, 2008
Another way to put it is that Toronto's defense has already been 45-50 runs better than ours
Jeff Sullivan - May 23, 2008
So what you're saying is that if we had Toronto's defense
we wouldn’t necessarily be dead right now – more like 22-26 or 23-25?
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
Seems accurate.
Matthew - May 23, 2008
Kind of like, say, Toronto
Jeff Sullivan - May 23, 2008
More diversity though
Graham MacAree - May 23, 2008
I dislike diverse teams.
JI - May 23, 2008
Diversity is stupid
Jeff Sullivan - May 23, 2008
WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
We make up for racial diversity with a lineup of mostly DHs
Graham MacAree - May 23, 2008
We have excellent diversity in DHs
eponymous_coward - May 23, 2008
Not really
they range from suck to really suck. Not too much diversity there.
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
They suck in multiple ethnicities, though
eponymous_coward - May 23, 2008
Toronto has an advantage in on-field brawls.
They just attack all the darkies.
Llewdor - May 23, 2008
The additional advantage of that is
it would get Shannon Stewart and his 53% ground ball rate out of the lineup.
Torgen - May 23, 2008
I've been wondering this
Why do we use DER instead of BABIP? BABIP seems to be a more intuitive number.
Edgar for Pres - May 23, 2008
You'd rather say we allowed a .322 BABIP instead of having a .678 DER?
Llewdor - May 23, 2008
Yeah I think that conveys how bad we suck much better.
Edgar for Pres - May 23, 2008
They're the same number
Graham MacAree - May 23, 2008
DER is basically 1-BABIP. It's just an out average on balls in play.
R.J. Anderson - May 23, 2008
I think i was more asking for historically why do people making stats often have many names
for basically the same stat. Its not really confusing once you know what it is but I’m sure for somebody seeing it all for the first time it probably is annoying.
Edgar for Pres - May 23, 2008
because BABIP is more thought of as a pitcher's stat
and we’re not trying measure the pitchers. That’s the reasoning anyways.
Matthew - May 23, 2008
Just looking at some more THT #s
It seems like Sexson, Beltre, Betancourt, and Ibanez are below league average in RZR, that can’t be good.
R.J. Anderson - May 23, 2008
I'm not yet at the point where I'm willing to put stock in a single individual measure of defense
Matthew - May 23, 2008
I don't blame you.
R.J. Anderson - May 23, 2008
Toronto's defense is going to win Shaun Marcum a Cy Young award.
That’s quite a feat.
Llewdor - May 23, 2008
But their offense is going to lose it for him
because Cy Young voters love the W-L record.
Torgen - May 23, 2008
That's why Halladay's 280 IP and 18 CG won't win it for him.
So far Marcum’s getting a .824 DER behind him. They don’t need to score much when he’s only allowing 1 run.
Llewdor - May 23, 2008
They need to score 2
and they have Brad Wilkerson leading off. Who knows, maybe they can ground into two bases loaded no out double plays every game.
Torgen - May 23, 2008
Ichiro hurts this team
by not making ESPN highlight reels.
johnbai - May 23, 2008
Raul Ibanez hurts this team by pretending to be the DH while playing left field
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
John McLaren hurts the team by being satisfied with that.
It’s not Raul’s fault.
Matthew - May 23, 2008
Well, it's still kinda his fault.
Graham MacAree - May 23, 2008
I think we can blame Bavasi too
if we’re not bored with doing that.
JI - May 23, 2008
I am kinda bored with that, actually
Ironically, I think I’ve blamed everyone associated with this organization for something except maybe Kenji.
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
Kenji totally deserves much blame.
Matthew - May 23, 2008
Not as much as Washburn.
JI - May 23, 2008
Kenji hurts the team
by throwing the bus wheels out of alignment after Jarrod threw him under the bus.
eponymous_coward - May 23, 2008
Yes he does
which is why I find it strange that I haven’t blamed him for anything yet.
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
Why would you blame Lopez for anything?
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - May 23, 2008
I blame Lopez for causing me to be tired at work
because I lose sleep thinking of ways we can promote his ‘08 All-Star campaign
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
JI - May 23, 2008
Whoa crazy
you realize that Jarrod threw that fastball 89 mph? Is that the fastest pitch he’s thrown this season?
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
As you can see
it’s hard tip tie up an opposite handed batter up and in with an 89MPH cockball.
JI - May 23, 2008
It's like Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball on 64
That was his Super Suck Pitch, hence the increased velocity.
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo - May 23, 2008
SafeCo gun...
Matthew - May 23, 2008
I thought the Safeco gun
was ~average compared to the other parks? I remembered NYY was pretty low (Bedard sat 88-89), but I thought Safeco was pretty decent?
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
PITCHf/x has it at 89 too
huh
Jeff Sullivan - May 23, 2008
Now I don't have to look it up.
JI - May 23, 2008
roids
Matthew - May 23, 2008
If he's on roids, they're not detectable
JI - May 23, 2008
He gets angry at his teammates much more easily now
seattlebruin - May 23, 2008
I like the "steriods" version better
:-(
JoeyJoJoJuniorShabadoo - May 23, 2008
Which makes my removing it from the other gamethread all the more satisfying.
JI - May 23, 2008
Nope, not on 'roids
The side effects would kill his action with the 16 year olds.
eponymous_coward - May 23, 2008
Man...
:(
BrettJMiller - May 23, 2008
The answer to this is obvious
We need a Gold Glove outfielder like Ken Griffey Jr.
eponymous_coward - May 23, 2008
So f'ng rec'd...
‘Cause you know the M’s would be thinking that…
PositivePaul - May 23, 2008
Just to be straight....
The +8 under “Pit” is means that our pitchers have essentially handed the defense 8 plays this season or in other words, if this team had an average defense, they would be +8 in plays made.
But the REALITY is that the M’s are -27?
Doesn’t that REALLY mean that the M’s are -35 then?
PLU Tim - May 23, 2008
Oh man....
KC is brutal….
Pit +19
Fld -22
PLU Tim - May 23, 2008
I believe the -27 accounts for the +8
but I could be wrong.
Jeff Sullivan - May 23, 2008
you are right on the pitchers
the pitchers are +8
the fielders are -27
overall they are -19
Matthew - May 23, 2008
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