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Lookout Landing

18-33

That was new.

5_25_08_medium

Biggest Contribution: Jarrod Washburn, +13.7%
Biggest Suckfest: JJ Putz, -56.0%
Most Important AB: Ichiro homer, +11.2%
Most Important Pitch: Molina double, -27.5%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -55.1%
Total Contribution by Hitters: -10.5%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +15.6%
(What is this chart?)

0 recs  |  132 comments

Comments

Shouldn't have looked at the gift horse.
DON'T LOOK INTO THE EYES OF THE GIFT HORSE IT WILL TURN YOU TO STONE

By which I mean TURN YOU INTO RAUL IBANEZ.

Could also apply to Ichi or Wlad..

I mean shouldn’t SOMEONE take initiative and go for that popup. Its hard to be down on Ichiro cause of his awesomeness but its hard to be awesome and 18-33 at the same time.

This gift horse was actually flesh eating pony in disguise
"flesh-eating pony" = my new favorite phrase.
I just woke up

did I miss anything?

JJ and Ichiro suck now.
First six words to come to mind..

What. The. Fuck. Was. That. Shit.

I'd be tempted to just shut down JJ at this point

No reason to risk further injury

Yeah, we're just running down his trade value
Yeah JJ won't be up for that
Dude.. I left when it was 5-2 to go to the grocery store

I come back just in time to see Raul swinging at a 3rd strike above his head to end the game. All I can say is… huh?

Don't feel too bad...

At least you missed Vidro watch strike 3, only to get a second chance to watch strike 3, which of course he didnt pass up..

So, has the entire roster mailed it in?
Vidro is still playing for a vesting option
Doesn't take any effort for that.. just getting penciled in hah
Thats what I was just thinking..

I know it’s not Mac’s fault – but SOMETHING has to be changed and that is the easiest thing to make a switch on.. Yea it’s just change for the sake of change, but when you are 18-33 and getting swept on an entire road trip – who says that’s wrong?

God woke me up early just in time to see the M's lose.

That joke is getting old. Wasn’t funny when he did it when the M’s had a 2-0 lead in the 9th vs. Baltimore either…

stupid gift horse

and it’s stupid mouth

Chemistry...

doesn’t exist. But I will give credit to one thing – they do look like they’re not trying at all. It would be nice if there was SOME way to yell at them to get them to try harder. Baker’s “late bus” thing actually is starting to get to me – no one on this lousy team takes extra batting practice when they are struggling? Why the hell not?! You all suck!

The driver of the early bus doesn't show any leadership
Batting practice doesn't matter

and of course it looks like they aren’t trying. They’re losing. Losing teams look worse than winning teams.

Well, obviously.

But I’m tired of watching Betancourt watch a ball roll by him rather than run for it and miss. Things of that nature. I don’t expect them to win. I expect them to look as though they are making millions a year for playing a game.

I don't recall this happening ever
My similar quibble borne of frustration

I hate the fact that professional sportsmen can be so ridiculously out of shape and still qualify for multi-year contracts.

If I showed up at my doctor’s surgery looking like Silva then he would give me a stern warning about the dangers of obesity.

He'd also cut off your WD40 prescription.
This is why watching the Rays is fun.

They seem to like playing baseball.

That's probably because they're winning for once.
Bad "Chemistry"

Results when a bad team plays really really bad baseball.

Duh, thanks.
How about Terry Tate, Office Linebacker

Have him come out and tackle the players when they make a bad play/suck at the plate, etc.

I approve of this.
Here comes the pain train, Raul!
Baker actually reduced the "chemistry" argument to as intelligent a summary as possible for one who defends it:
You’ve seen examples presented to you of clubhouse troubles with the Mariners. Heard comments from George Sherrill, Bill Bavasi and now Carlos Silva, suggesting the Mariners clubhouse is not the greatest place to be. You can ask questions about how this relates to on-field play. You can make comparisons to what others - like Jim Leyland - say in-contrast to assertions that chemistry can impact on-field play. That’s intelligent discussion. But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant. Hope that helps answer your question.
This response still sucks

Because it basically boils down to “You aren’t in the locker room so you can’t judge this team.”

No one argues chemistry doesn’t matter. It’s just things like actual baseball talent matter more towards winning.

He's right.
Perfect.

”...actual baseball talent matters more towards winning…”

Nowhere in that paragraph does Baker downplay the importance of ability or claim that chemistry is super critical.

Everything he says in there is correct.

I like this part:

“But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion. Just because you aren’t well-versed on that particular area does not make it irrelevant.”

Applies to several walks of life
I can't think of anyone

who would disagree

Bavasi, Armstrong, Lincoln read this please
But who argues its irrelevant?

I’m just tired of after every loss Baker running up and posting the latest quote from player X about how the team needs to “play hard” or how some players aren’t coming in early for BP. Maybe the chemistry on this team sucks and maybe players aren’t playing as well as they could because of that. But the Mariners aren’t 18-33 just because the chemistry is off in the clubhouse.

Librocrat claims that it's irrelevant in this very thread.

And you should read some of the comments he gets over there sometime.

Reading comments on Baker's blog can be hazardous to your health
Yes, rarely would I recommend such a thing
I commented there once!
Under your "Logan" pseudonym?
I couldn't honestly recommend watching the Mariners at this point
No I didn't.

Saying I don’t believe it exists is an opinion.

Your words:

“Chemistry doesn’t exist.”

Irrelevance implies it exists but doesn't matter.

I don’t believe it is a thing. I believe it is an retrospective attribution to winning or losing.

But to take a firm stance that it has no impact at all, ruling out all other opinion, when you’re arguing from a position of ignorance, makes no intelligent contribution to a discussion.
I agree with you, and with Geoff.

This should be posted on the walls of every school. Drawing conclusions in the absence of evidence is insane.

Correct

They are 18-33 becuase they suck more than their opponents 65% of the time. The result is bad chemistry.

I think “chemistry” is really just how the players feel about the team, about themselves, about eachother, etc., at a given time.

When teams are kicking ass, the players feel great. When teams are sucking, the players feel like crap.

That's the problem I have with it

He’s right that it’s not irrelevant. But just because it has some relevance doesn’t mean it’s suddenly the most relevant thing to our team’s woes. Bad chemistry is quite far down the list of reasons this team is playing horrible baseball, yet that’s the only problem he seems to advocate fixing, or at least it’s what seems to be most important to him. It shouldn’t be.

You're no longer arguing against his post
I know I'm not

I guess I should have phrased that differently, that’s the problem I have with him*. Like I said, he’s right that it’s not irrelevant so his post is entirely correct in that respect. But he, in plenty of his other posts, has treated team chemistry as way more relevant to our problems than it actually is. And this post is supposed to be defending his fixation with it. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this current statement but it doesn’t defend how overly concerned he is with chemistry just to say that it exists, there’s a huge gap between the absolutes of no importance <-> how much important he treats it as.

This I agree with
I'd disagree with the assertion that chemistry isn't irrelevant,

because we don’t know that. But nor do we know that it’s relevant. Our knowledge of the effect chemistry has on the team is negligible.

I don't believe in chemistry.

I do believe in half-assing. I consider them different phenomenon.

And yet neither is falsifiable
You are correct.

Which is why I’m obviously not as invested in this conversation as you are.

That's fine

But he’s still blowing it’s importance wayyyy out of proportion

Jose Vidro

My least favorite Mariner of All Time

1. Vidro
2. Ayala
3-27 . Everyone else on the ‘08 M’s roster.

Yep.

You have just forgotten Ayala

Time lessens the pain.

That's too many people

unless you’re counting Vidro twice.

perhaps i meant vidro and pepe...
Wow

can u guys suck any less

We'll never see fiddler cat again :(
I have thus far resisted the urge to post it myself
You guys dont even deserve it.

Allowing the Yankees to get over .500

What can we do except completely agree with you?
At least take two from the Sox, please?
I just want to throw up

And I don’t even like the Mariners.

I wish we had a chance in hell of doing that
Seriously, I think around 90% of the M's fans on LL would love to do anything to help the Rays at this point...

...since we ain’t got shit to look forward to this season except further shame and disgrace. But let’s be honest: what are the chances of us winning even ONE game against the Sox? Safeco is going to look like Boston West for the series, what with all the insufferable frontrider Seattle Sox fans in the area…god, it’s gonna be a charnel house.

It's okay.

We’ll just do it ourselves with a bit of help from the A’s today.

Thanks for understanding, man.

[claps you on shoulder with a manly sense of resignation]

Did Carlos Pena actually say that?
Taking two of three from the Sox is pretty plausible actually.

Red Sox haven’t scored much recently and we have a slight pitching advantage in the series. I wouldn’t bet the farm on it though.

Your own creation returns to haunt you

Bring on the next customer!
The Boston offense is probably licking its chops.
We could probably win two innings over a three game set
They aren't over .500 yet
Yes, we can

there are dozens of ways in which the M’s could actually suck less. Now, if you really meant “could the M’s suck any MORE”, then the answer is no. No, they cannot, because they already suck to their maximum capacity.

Vidro hasn't played 2B this year

And we haven’t actually had too much of an injury problem (besides JJ sucking).

I think this comment may be construed as a challenge

and the Mariners will try to prove you wrong.

Oh yeah?

LaHair at 1B says “Hi”. So does firing John McLaren and Bavasi stepping in for managerial duties.

Maybe he is requesting that they suck less
In addition to having my 4 wisdom teeth pulled..

Seeing the M’s get absolutely manhandled against another last place team has really made this long weekend a great one so far.

P.S.

Thank god for Vicodin. (Couldn’t get ahold of any produced in Papua New Guinea though)

On the bright side

Washburn got 12 ground balls to only 4 Fly’s. Anyone have a guess on how the hell he did that?

Yankee Stadium
Meaningless grouping within a very small sample?
scratch that.. those are just his outs.
Yeah I was gonna say

He had a bunch of flyballs that didn’t get turned into outs

wooo scott hairston!
I want to stab Bill Kreuger and Angie Mentik in the face

Why do I watch the post game show? There is nothing of value there.

What a coincidence

Bill Kreuger does something to Mantank’s face all the time.

I see I'm not the only one who has heard the rumors.

BTW, I used to think she wore shoulder pads in her ridiculous jackets, but now I just think she’s a man.

Those are rolls of Mantank
Ichiro on the flyball

Per Baker

“That flyball hung up like a Ray Guy punt. But Ichiro never could catch up to it. He didn’t even look at the ball when he began racing back, given all the ground he had to make up.

As soon as they hit it, I thought it was going to be a tough ball to catch,’’ he said. “At the end of the play, I never got to where the ball was.’‘

Which prompted the natural question of whether he should have been playing a little deeper to begin with.

“If I had spiritual powers and knew the ball was going to be landing there, then I would have,’’ he said. “But I don’t have spiritual power.’’

Hmm…I thought he had Mental Signals….

Mental signals yes.. Spiritual powers no..
Well hey

The guy doesn’t have spiritual powers, can’t blame him for that!

So um...Ichiro for Edwin Jackson?
This reminds me of Jerry

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.

I think the Ichiro extension must have caused him to re-evaluate his life
He disappears during the regular season every year.

I don’t think he actually watches any baseball. He just loves the offseason part of baseball.

I don't think he was around last offseason though.
Ichiro doesn't have spiritual powers?

Well that’s disappointing.

So this game sucked.

In other news, I finally saw Indy IV. Could have done without the last five minutes of the movie, but overall it was enjoyable.

It wasn’t Raiders good, but it wasn’t Temple of Doom bad. It was fun, and that’s all I could ask for.

I liked it.
fail
It was tasteless action entertainment.

That’s all I wanted out of that movie.

Yeah, I didn't look at my watch.

That’s high praise for a movie.

How do you all feel about Omar Vizquel?

Good player or just played a lot? I will always think of him as a mariner and always be surprised when I realize he only was here for five years. I remember being totally fine with the trade to Cleveland because I didn’t think Omar was gonna hit ever (Adam Everett style) but I was amazed to see him put it together and continue his career for probalby at least 10 years longer than I would have guessed it would last.

Can you believe he's still an elite-level defensive shortstop?
No,

but that’s only because I don’t believe individual fielding metrics.

Can you believe he may or may not still be an elite-level defensive shortstop?
I do believe he either is or is not an elite-level defensive shortstop.
Not only do I believe this

I 100 % believe this.

I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel
When I think of Omar, I always think of him in an Indians uniform.

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