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As I sat here watching Gameday and listening to Batista getting annihilated on the radio (you know the season is sunk when you don't even bother with a proxy for MLB.tv), it occurred to me that there isn't a single good, realistic reason for the Mariners to leave Miguel Batista in the rotation.

Not a single one. This isn't like the whole Ibanez/Vidro/AJ thing from a year ago. The Mariners didn't want to throw an unproven rookie into the middle of a pennant race, and Ibanez had been effective and consistent for years, and they wanted to keep as many lefty bats in the lineup as possible, and...whatever. There were reasons, is what I'm saying. There were perfectly legitimate reasons for handling that situation the way it was handled.

But not this one. No sir. When I say there's not a single good reason to leave Batista in the rotation, I mean there's not a single good reason to leave Batista in the rotation. It's every bit as inexplicable as...as batting Jose Vidro cleanup, really. Or for that matter, batting Jose Vidro anywhere. It is, for all intents and purposes, an unjustifiable decision.

What could possibly be the reason? That the Mariners are still trying to win as many games in 2008 as they can? Because Miguel's not helping. In case they haven't noticed, both his ERA and his tRA as a starter this year are over seven. The team is 5-11 in games that he starts. That's bad. Allowing Miguel Batista to remain in the rotation is actively costing this team wins, wins that Riggleman and the executives claim to value.

That the Mariners are playing for the future, and want to get Batista back on track before 2009? The Mariners know what Batista looks like when he's "back on track". He looks like Miguel Batista a year ago, a guy who can give you a high-4's/low-5's ERA and a bunch of 5/6 inning starts. What they don't know is what Dickey, RRS, or Morrow could provide in the same role. And finding that out is of far greater importance for the future of the organization. If the team were playing for the future, they'd put one or two of those guys in the rotation, find out what they have, and use that information to better assess the team's standing come October.

That Batista deserves every last opportunity because he's a veteran who's been around a while? No dice. Burke isn't getting much of an opportunity. Neither is Dickey. Neither did Wilkerson. Sexson got plenty of chances but got dumped during a relative hot streak. The veteran favoritism thing (1) isn't a good reason, and (2) doesn't really hold up when you look at the other decisions this team has made over the months.

That he deserves every last opportunity because of his contract? We've been over this before. It's a sunk cost. What you pay for something becomes of virtual irrelevance as soon as you get it. People have talked about how they don't want to trade Bedard for a lower price than the one we paid, but the price we paid doesn't mean anything anymore. And the same goes for Batista. The money is spent. There's no getting it back. So starting him just because he's due to make many millions of dollars doesn't make any sense.

That he's just trying to work his way through injuries? Funny thing about people who're injured - they don't tend to get better if they keep repeating the thing that got them hurt in the first place. Fixing Batista by letting him pitch would be like healing a wound by slapping a cobra.

That he simply wants to keep starting? Who the fuck cares? Willie's been whining his cracker ass off about playing time for as long as he's been a Mariner and hardly anyone ever pays him attention. Everybody wants to play more. Nobody works his way to the Major Leagues aspiring to be a role player or middle reliever. Everyone wants the glory of being a regular, and just because Batista wants to keep starting doesn't mean you should ignore everyone else who tells you the same thing.

That he's being showcased for a trade? One, showcasing almost never actually takes place. Two, this isn't helping. Showcasing only works in theory when the player you're showcasing isn't a giant pile of crap.

And so on and so forth. I could make up and debunk different possible reasons all night long, but there wouldn't be a point, because the response to every single reason would be some variant of "no, sorry, that's stupid." Every single one of them. Seriously. The only hypothetical good reason I could come up with for leaving Batista in the rotation is that the team is tanking for Strasburg, but as much as I'd like to believe that this is what they're actually doing, there's just a little too much evidence to the contrary. So all we're left with is:

Q: Why is Miguel Batista still in the starting rotation?

A: Because fuck you, that's why.

It's stupid. And it bothers me even more than the fact that Vidro's still on the roster getting regular playing time, because Vidro's gone come autumn and he isn't really blocking anyone important, whereas Miguel Batista being in the rotation directly prevents the team from finding out whether or not it already has a cheap, effective #5 starter on its hands for 2009. Considering the only purpose of the games at this point is to answer questions about the future, leaving Batista in the rotation just flies in the face of everything the team's supposed to be trying to do.

Make the official switch already, Jim. This has been going on long enough. It's time to let Dickey or RRS' dreams come true for a change.

It's the right thing to do.

7_19_08_medium

Biggest Contribution: Jose Vidro, +9.6%
Biggest Suckfest: Miguel Batista, -44.8%
Most Important AB: Betancourt DP, -12.3%
Most Important Pitch: Choo homer, -17.1%
Total Contribution by Pitcher(s): -43.8%
Total Contribution by Lineup: -11.4%
Total Contribution by Opposition: +5.2%
(What is this chart?)

 

1 recs  |  184 comments

Comments

RRS' average fastball today: 90.0mph

Average of his first five: 89.1
Average of his middle five: 90.1
Average of his last five: 89.6

amen!

not too shabby

Getting closer to where he was a year ago

And that’s over a long relief outing.

His stuff looks better close up.

But man does he lose the zone sometimes.

He doesn't lose the zone

The zone runs off and hides because it gets tired of being hit in the face by awesome pitches.

I think he's worthy of a pitch F/X location post.

My hypothesis is that he pitches up in the zone far too much.

I would be surprised if research disproved this hypothesis.
Nats win! Nats win!

SAS

Gun to your head, which would you prefer:

(1) M’s finish with the worst record in baseball
(2) Rays win the East

1.
It's funny

Tampa’s 1.5 game lead feels precarious, but Washington’s 1.5 game lead feels insurmountable.

Padres roared by us too :(

And the Giants are making a late comeback.

And beware a Nady-less Pirates.

We really need to trade Ibanez to somebody
well, just the past two days has upped his trade value
Circle one.

A rotation of: Felix – Bedard – Silva – RRS – Dickey

and an OF of: Willie/Wlad – Reed – Ichiro

helps/hurts us in the chase for Strasburg.

Depends on Wlad, really

if he looks as bad as he did early on, I’d circle “helps”.

WLAD is currently playing CF in Tacoma, and not too badly, I might add
I've heard that one before
Seen Jeff Clement lately?
though i'm personally not a fan of silva, i could deal with that

and i do like Willie in CF and still not sold on Wlad…i dont dislike him but he needs to “prove” himself

I heard Wlad doesn't even take pride in his defense
Late joke coming in 5... 4...

I find it hard to not expect my spirits to be crushed.

I’m the most fucked up optimist ever.

Though I'd probably take the Rays winning the East

over the Ms netting the 2nd overall vs say the 4th overall.

First overall picks are just so insanely valuable.

Dickey is in the rotation (as of now anyway-slotted for 7/22) so let RRS's dreams come true!

He has said multiple times in multiple places that he would liek to eventually be a starting pitcher. He has shown that he is able. No, I wont goright out and say “yes he is an ‘ace’ right now” but he sure has potential. “Practice makes perfect”.
RRS picthed somewhere around 87 pitches today…that aint too shabby. Dickey’s 5 inning relief outings earned him some starts. Like I said, maybe RR-S is not perfect, maybe he will give up a couple runs, and maybe he will “only” go 5-6 innings.
Batista ERA: 6.98
RR-S ERA: 3.44
Rather see that then what I saw today (and previous times) from Batista. I could see it if he has “earned” that spot like if he was a veteran fan favorite…or something…
but oh right…Strasburg’s on the line! That’s why.
And speaking of Burke, kinda made me sad when the article in the paper admittedly said he was getting the short end of the stick. I like Burky

quoting ERA.

5 flag penalty.

Shiza!

noob mistake number 356 this week

*Scheisse
357

(Just busting your balls a bit.)

Scheiße

owned.

Awwwwwwwwwww shit.
niiice

point for you. i however am in the negatives

`

Thanks for filling in, I went out to the Cheesecake Factory for dinner.
Did you have dessert?
At bats for Vidro are at bats that could go to Clement
Clement's still getting plenty of playing time
Needs to stop sucking at defense. >:(

I’ve played better games behind the dish than his today.

I used to really worry about Clement's defense but then I remembered that Victor Martinez also sucks a lot

I was comforted.

Correction: used to suck a lot

Evidently things have changed. But still.

I can make no sense of Catcher defense.

Therefore, I choose to ignore it completely.

5 factors.

1. Calling a game/ framing pitches/etc. No good way to quantify it.
2. Catching pop ups. All pretty much the same. Small samples prevent distinction.
3. Fielding bunts. See above though slightly more sample
4. Preventing PB/WP. Quantifiable.
5. Controlling the running game. Quantifiable, though shutting it down entirely isn’t actually the best outcome.

Basically, I feel like anyone who can catch without being disastrous is fine defensively.

I’m sure I’m wrong to a certain extent, but I hate being subjective in baseball judgments.

Actually, you're pretty much on the right track.

There’s less variation between the best and worst catcher than any other position as far as I’ve been able to tell.

It's certainly a demanding position, and an important one.

The thing is, very few outcomes are effected in any meaningful and quantifiable way by catchers. And yeah, pitch calling, blah blah blah. As long as the pitcher can shake off signs, I’m not buying it one bit.

My theory is that catcher is just one of those positions, like shortstop.

If you cannot handle it, you get moved off it well before you reach the majors. Result, the spread between major league catchers just isn’t that wide since, like you say, the chances to meaningfully impact a game defensively are few in number comparatively.

Which is awesome, really,

because it makes it that much easier to quantify the value of catchers individually.

i never before compared catcher to shortstop like that...

but i can see that!

My god! Why is it so difficult for you to use capital letters appropriately?

It’s not that hard.

Since Jeff and Matthew seem to be the only people in this thread so far

I’d just like to say that the Stone 12th Anniversary Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout is more than welcome to have carnal relations with my girlfriend and raise the resulting child as a trophy. Sweet merciful heavens that is delicious beer.

Also, no amount of charity work, writing, scholarship, competent musicianship or general Renaissance Man-ness could trump Miguel Batista’s absolute suckitude on the baseball diamond. If I could use to nanotechnology to implant a bomb in his elbow U would love nothing more than to push the button that triggered its explosion. Fuck that guy.

Told you.
This Young's Double Chocolate tastes like failure now.
I always hate when I try something that makes a previous favorite taste bland.
I've had this same problem several times before.

I need to start buying safety beers when I’m trying something I know is going to blow my mind. A Samuel Smith would have done nicely tonight.

You been to the Sam Smith pub down by the Market?
?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!?!

NO! WHERE THE FUCK IS IT!

Post btw Virginia and Stewart.

White Horse Trading Company.

Post Dark Knight beer dispensary target identified.
Didn't know there was one...

Note taken!!!!

I actually think it's distinct enough from both Young's and Old Rasputin.

I love all three in their own way.

Oh, me too.

Old Rasputin has been on sale lately, and I’ve been putting it down like crazy. But the Stone is so demanding of your palate’s attention that following it with anything similar is doomed to failure. I once had a Ruination right after a 90 Minute IPA and experienced a similar phenomenon; I still prefer Ruination, but 90 Minute is so complex and strong that it should be appreciated by itself.

Agreed.

This is why I am loathe to not only order the same beer twice in a row but I also avoid ordering the same type of beer consecutively. It makes it hard for me to drink much at most bars since the palate selection tends to range between hefe on one end and amber on the other. Not many places with good porters and stouts on tap to ease the transition.

Yeah, considering that Seattle is a big time beer town

the selection at most bars is pretty damned pedestrian.

hmm sad

you’ll have to let me know the good places to go. BIG beer drinker right here.

And yet another thing I’m a noob at…legally anyway…well not QUITE yet…

Are you a Seattleite?
Yes
Develop a taste for IPAs and Ambers.

There’s usually one good one to choose from at any decent bar. When you feel like going upscale, try Brouwer’s in Fremont (on a weeknight, for the love of God only on a weeknight) Feierabend, the Stumbling Monk, or pretty much any brewpub in town. People’s Pub has a limited selection of great beer, and there’s a place in the U-District on Roosevelt called die BierStube that has a great selection but an awful, awful crowd most nights. Go early and you’ll be fine.

Thanks!!

Will have to try those
...in 11 days

Then again, go to a normal bar in say

Virginia and I would be appalled at the shit I would be forced to choose from.

Oh yeah.

Which is the lesser evil; Budweiser or Coors?

i say budweiser

but i come from Pullman and Busch is “Pullman water”

Depends.

Bud Select, for mass-produced swill, isn’t that bad IMO. but Bud and Bud Light are gag-riffic. But really, if forced to choose I would go somewhere else and if that weren’t an option; it’s hard A time.

hey Bud Light is good for shotguns!

so is keystone light….
AGHCK!!!

We're going to run out of shift buttons.
Funny, since the left shift key

on my comp fell off last month.

Donations welcome.
haha that is funny to me

I have one of those “Oh Shit” keys on my keyboard

i am not even 100% sure where the “shift key” tradition started here…but it does make me chuckle…even though i’m the one getting “shift”ed a lot

You seem cool, just use the shift key when required.
CONFORM!
ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

I wouldn't miss my right shift key if it got taken
Not if I can help it.
Seen tonight at the Ballard Fred Meyer:

Budweiser+Clamato. Ugggghhhhh.

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that at the store.

In a 24-ouncer no less.

That is, in all seriousness, on of the most disgusting things I've ever seen.
I can just imagine a college kid shotgunning it. "Breakfast beer, bro!"
"Hair of the dog, bra'. You gotta' keep it rolling, y'know? Cuz' old lady hangover is a fuckin' BITCH man, y'know? Fuckin' a, dude!"
What movie is this from...?
The one in my mind.
what's wrong with beer for breakfast?

it’s the cure for a hangover…

jk

Drinking to cure a hangover is your quickest path to severe dehydration.

Not to mention problem alcoholism.

as i grit my teeth and think...yeah you're right

i do know a lot of people who are on the fast path to alcoholism

Hangovers are natures way of reminding you not to do that shit all the time.
Hm...

well what is nature telling us when we exercise and are sore the next day?

That soreness is a reminder that staying healthy is a sacrifice.
Nature is reminding you to work out more often, because then you won't be sore.

Nature is annoying.

i was going to add on to this nature->exercise thread...

but i just thought about it too hard and now my brain hurts.
and lately nature has been telling me that staying is a sacrifice and that i need to work out more, more often than i’d like!

staying healthy*
One of my coworkers wanted to work out with me.

And he let me into the company gym as his guest. And we lifted for 2 hours, first time I’ve lifted in a while. I cannot bend my arms now. That’s natures way of telling me I’m a dumbass.

good job! i applaud you for going to the gym period

i haven’t done that in a long while…nature will definitely kick me in the ass the next time i go to the gym

i usually go running…which i need to do more often…grr

Yeah, I haven't done that in 2 months either.

So I ran 11 miles this morning. Also not a smart decision. I was dry-heaving for a while after the run.
Also, I may or may not have seen Matthew playing soccer. It looked like him, but I have no clue what he’d be doing in Redmond.

you run in redmond?

thatd be funny if ive seen you. I used to go running in Redmond when i kept my horse there
I REALLY need to build up my stamina again…10 miles is starting to feel difficult

damn it

i dont want to grow up yet and realize thats what hangovers are for!

True story, a guy I know loves clamato.. alot.
Come on, man, there HAS to be more to that story!
How about walking home and seeing college kids proudly hauling in cases of Busch Light?
Batista is a sunk cost...

but so is Silva… I know he’s not nearly as bad, but if he’s worse than Morrow, RRS, and Dickey, at what point (bad he gets, or good they get, or years left on contract) do we consider him cutting him/benching him.
Though he has looked better as of late. I suppose if he’s the 4th/5th starter, that’s acceptable on a competitive team.

Silva is a serviceable #4 or #5 pitcher.

He’s just an expensive #4 or #5 pitcher.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
I don't think we share the same definition of sunk cost...
Decisions like keeping Tits in the rotation are to blame for our inability to stay on-topic.
Partially.

When the opposing team scores 8 runs on us in 2 innings, it’s hard to keep on topic. Though it is fun to see RRS and Dickey in (if the game was televised like it was supposed to that is).

I was there

and yes, it was great to see RRS in for multiple innings. At least it made the ticket value worth SOMETHING.

It amazes me.

That we are a Lincoln replacement away from sanity. 6.5 other billion people could replace him, and BOOM…bubkus.

Sic Semper Tyrannis!

There are so many changes that are long overdue.
Lincoln and Armstrong

are at the bottom of it.

They must realize how badly we want Strasburg

because there’s no other explanation for this, unless they think Oakland, LAA and Texas are about to go on 60 game losing streaks

I really wouldn't mind if we were tanking on purpose.

But I’d rather get our young guys some playing time. And sign some guy like Rich White to be our closer /set up man so we can lose some more games.

if we are tanking on purpose

i almost wish there was some way they could tell us so i dont have to think they are just being stupid…or something

Yeah, I'm pretty certain they're tanking and "We're trying to win games" is a cover-up excuse for the media, and to get people to keep buying tickets
Since others went off-topic--excellent use of ponies.

However, even ponies cannot elevate Batista. Putting him out to pasture is not enough.

off topic? Nooooo! Really? i thought for sure we were on topic...

if ponies aren’t enough…
care bears?

That's going to be one bottle of glue that never gives up
awww i hate you guys!

JK

tho i have had horses that had about the (show) value of Batista and made me want to send them to the factory…
AND like baseball players, horses are DAMN expensive (at least in westside WA)

I'm once again declaring myself Shift Deputy for a Few Minutes.

After three failures to get my point across with the shift-key, I leave these people in the hands of the mods.
people? i think it's mostly me.
God damn it something must be wrong with this transmission

Shift already.

I like this one the best I think
Use the fucking shift key!

Hearts,
-The Management.

.

To be fair, that was a good suggestion.

But I would love to see a paint sign made by Graham and signed with a little pink heart.

Covert Strasburg

If they’re gunning for the StraSweep then they wouldn’t want the unwashed masses to know it. Maybe they don’t want to make overt “throw in the towel” moves?

Is it plausible that they’re going with a “veteran” to make it look like they’re trying?

Who knows…

Not buying it

It fits too well with their previous philosophy for “winning” ballgames. When this club had high expectations they were doing the same thing they are now. And it was a strategy which happened to be so horribly inept it resulted in losing. That strategy continues, because it’s still mostly the same people running the team, and their basic philosophical biases are just as fucking stupid as they were since they were hired..They won’t learn, the only thing that will change anything about this team is if we completely clean house.

And honestly, what could be more overt than batting Vidro cleanup and letting Batista keep his job? These guys are shit, there’s really no excusing it, they are respectively the worst in baseball at their jobs. It’s not like there is any reason to hide it if you’re really trying to sabotage things when you’re playing the worst players for their positions and they are the worst by a wide margin, everyone would know what you’re doing anyway…..So why not just go all the way? Why do you platoon Vidro instead of batting him cleanup every single day if you’re trying to tank?

The most logical conclusion is, they aren’t trying to tank, they are just fucking stupid.

But winning ballgames at this point means nothing

“These people are idiots,” is a lazy excuse. They do make bad philosophical decisions, but they’re not complete retards.

I'll say this

If Batista gets another start on this team, they are fucking retarded. With Dickey clearly being a better pitcher even at his worst, and JJ coming back…..if we ever see him start again, I think they meet the legal threshold for retardation.

So do they keep him in the pen or what?

Is he even close enough to being DFA? I suppose even if the was, this team has demonstrated that they like to keep players around much longer than they should be.

Also, I don’t understand the graphic in the WE chart, can someone explain it?

that's a good question

would he be better in the ‘pen or would he be one of the infamous pitchers that throws the game away after the starter’s done (literally)...
he couldnt be as bad as EOS…right?

Dickey is getting some nice starts with Bedard hurting this and that. I would much rather see Dickey as a starter long-term than Batista…it’d be sad to see him go back to the ‘pen when Bedard’s back (if ever..)
While Dickey is replacing Bedard, i would much rather see RR-S get some starts. What do they have to lose?
Strasburg.
or put Morrow out there. i don’t know if he would make a good starter but he is a better pitcher and at least even if he lost it’d be interesting

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Proper use of the shift-key is mandatory here.
CAPITALIZE THE GODDAMN CORRECT LETTERS
And he would certainly be better in the pen

Every pitcher is better the fewer innings they are expected to pitch since they don’t have to worry so much about pacing themselves, but I have serious doubts that he is even valuable as a bullpen arm anymore.

EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN ONE OF THEM
THAT WOULD BE GODDAMN PREFERABLE TO NOT CAPITALIZING ANYTHING PERHAPS

or not.

Sorry, note taken.

Other internet blog groups I’ve been a member of called me a priss for always using correct grammar. I also get that when I use full sentences and correct grammar (like capital letters) on IM.

Still trying to figure out the “culture” here. Only been here (actively) less than a week.

Oh, and I am retarded. I thought the shift key pic meant “shift topic” as in you’re boring, off topic, or inapporpriate. I don’t mind admitting I’m dumb. I lost it tonight a long time ago.
Got it now. I promise.

Just blame it on being trashed
That's usually a good way to go around here..
Gotta throw in improper spelling though.
I love this place and its insistence on maintaining high standards.
Seriously... my workplace

doesn’t even have such high standards…. People send me emails with smiley faces and uncapitalized, unpunctuated sentences all the time.

People at my workplace do that too

sometimes to people in the USAF. Oh well.

Exactly.

I guess I have been used to groups, friends, and even work-related instances where online netiquette is very loose, emoticons and abbreviations (like LOL) are the way, and if you use complete sentences and capital letters then you are considered pompous and prissy.
Was actually refreshing (rather than mad at being corrected) to find this place is not like that.

Really?

Ponies being shipped off to the glue factory….

Ichiro! hit a homerun!

And seattlebruin has to update his sig!

Wayyyyy ahead of you
He got a walk and I didn't even notice!
I love MLB.com's headlines:
Sox are Meche-merized
I love Joe Maddon.

Dioner Navarro bunted for a hit in the sixth inning with the Rays up 5-0, then was plunked his next time up. Maddon had this to say:

“I really disagree with what they did,” Maddon said. “We’ll stop trying to score runs when they stop trying.”

“Too many times people have had things passed down through legend or lore in regard to the appropriate or inappropriate things to do,” Maddon said. “Maybe in 1922, you wouldn’t (bunt) because nobody is going to hit a home run. But in the year 2008, people hit home runs. And you could see how they came back. Once again, in baseball, for me, there are moments when people definitely mentally move at a glacier pace, and they really have to get beyond it. That’s what I think about that situation. And it stunk.”

Joe Maddon is quickly becoming my favorite manager in the game.
Oh Sylar... I miss that crazy bastard

A few years ago,

when he was saying that the Rays were going to attempt to steal bags at pretty much every opportunity, I thought he might be an idiot. But the more I pay attention, I see he’s far from that. And he’s a disciple of Scioscia, so at least he learned how to “put the game in motion” from someone who does it very well.

I also love Manny Acta. Funny, smart, open to new things.

After Acta gets fired this year, I would love to hire him.
Yes please.

Speaking of, another reason to love the Rays is the fact that they didn’t fire Maddon when the team was awful. They knew they were building something, and Maddon was their guy.

It's a great point. I can't understand the 'don't humiliate the other team' brainbug.
The only time I'd disagree with you would be this past season in football, when the Patriots would be up by 30 in the 4th quarter and still be passing almost every down

and they would keep Brady in. That’s just plain stupid

Especially considering that the Rays bullpen ended up giving up four runs in the 9th.

And they easily could have given up more.

That's awesome
Is it wrong that I like the Indians 80's unis way more than their current version?

Can’t say the same for the Mariners though.

Also, funny how, just like the 80’s, the Mariners and Indians are both having shitty years.

Now that I think about it

I remember reading somewhere before the All-Star break that Jim Riggleman would like to see how this team performs with all of its parts back. Basically get Putz back, get Bedard back, get Batista back into the #5 slot, and lets see how they do.

This seems to be where he’s heading. Don’t like it one bit if true.

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