I'm not going to bother speculating on whether or not a deal will go down, but if you've been paying any attention to things at all this afternoon, you've heard that the Marlins are interested in dealing Jeremy Hermida and a couple of others as part of a complicated trade for Manny Ramirez. And regardless of whether or not anything actually happens, the fact that they're even willing to consider this speaks volumes as to how nutso they really are.
With a pair of $20m club options on the horizon, it's unlikely that Manny would be any more than a rental. And as an everyday LF, he just...he isn't very good.
A little quick and dirty number-crunching projects Manny to have a .384 wOBA the rest of the way, against Hermida's .332 (give or take a few points for both). If you assume ~200 remaining plate appearances, that comes out to an offensive difference of nine runs. Were a trade to go down today, you could reasonably expect Manny Ramirez to improve Florida's offense by about nine runs over the final third of the year.
But offense is only half of the equation. The advanced defensive metrics consider Hermida to be a roughly average corner outfielder, while Manny tends to fall somewhere in the -30 < x < -20 range. So, assuming there's nothing all that wonky about how the metrics deal with the Green Monster and Manny really is that bad, we're talking about a ~7-10 run difference the other way. You know what falls between 7 and 10? 9.
If there's any truth to these whispers, then the Marlins are thinking about trading three more guaranteed years of Jeremy Hermida, along with a couple prospects, to make themselves not better. Like, at all. At most, we're talking a handful of runs for a team in third place.
You have to really, really, really believe in Manny's drawing power for this to even begin making the slightest lick of sense from Florida's perspective. It's a bad idea. It's a really bad idea. I'm all for the Marlins trying to make a big splash, but sweet baby Jesus, there are better ways.
0 recs | 65 comments
I want it to happen because I hate the Marlins and love Manny
but it’s terminally stupid.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
It's a good deal for Boston.
JI - July 30, 2008
A very good deal
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
...That fucks over the Rays and makes them better at the same time.
JI - July 30, 2008
Fuck Dave Samson.
Two Rs and Two Ls - July 30, 2008
And here come the "Manny Ramirez" Google News hits.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
This is crazy.
JI - July 30, 2008
You woould say Manny and bay are ~equal with the bat?
How less terrible is Bay at defense?
JI - July 30, 2008
I'd give Manny a 5-10 run edge at the plate
but Bay slaughters him in the field. As an LF, Bay’s the better player. If the Red Sox are able to turn Manny into Bay, prospects, and financial flexibility…
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
Agreed.
Plus 1 year of Bay after this one.
JI - July 30, 2008
plus fuck Tampa
JI - July 30, 2008
GO FUCK YOURSELF
P Brady - July 30, 2008
Was a joke.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
Don't mess with the Rays.
They’re for real.
oc - July 30, 2008
IT WAS A JOKE
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
FA REALZ!!!
oc - July 30, 2008
But Manny's options are team options yes?
So Epstein can just decline them after the season anyways. In other words, trading Manny doesn’t net the Sox financial security because they could have it regardless.
And isn’t there anecdotal evidence that Manny plays the green monster decently well whereas it tends to eat visiting LFers alive?
I don’t think it comes close to making this deal make sense, but I do think it’s less of an abortion than, say Kazmir-Zambrano.
Matthew - July 30, 2008
Having Bay locked in at ~$7.5 m for 2009 gives the Red Sox much more flexibility.
JI - July 30, 2008
Why the Marlins aren't trading for Bay I don't know
maybe they really want the draft picks for next June and they’re trying to save money by not going to arb with Hermida???
JI - July 30, 2008
The Pirates' FO is really smart and realizes it's always a bad idea to trade within the division.
esoteric - July 31, 2008
It gives them a good starting OF next year for a low price.
And even if Manny’s better than Bay at playing the wall, I don’t think there’s any way to deny that this trade would be helping the Red Sox in both the short- and long-terms.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
if this deal goes down, i'll be happy for the Pirates.
oc - July 30, 2008
Padres broadcast proposes Manny to the Packers for Brett Farve.
Goose - July 30, 2008
ESPN explodes
GhettoBear04 - July 30, 2008
It was Manny's idea.
JI - July 30, 2008
Clayton and Gammons wed.
oc - July 30, 2008
Can Manny run the ball? That might be a good trade.
Gomez - July 30, 2008
Ramirez is a poor fit for Florida
Dolphins stadium is a fairly large park which would supress his power numbers to a certain degree. I can also see his defense getting much worse when he does not have the green monster in left field reducing the area he needs to cover. With no DH, his defensive limitations cannot be covered without leaving him out of the starting 9 which limits their options.
tdot mariner fan - July 30, 2008
Starting to sound awful close
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
According to R.J., Manny said it won't happen.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
And he's of the reliable sort
Mariner John - July 30, 2008
R,J, hung the moon as far as I'm concerned.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
*R.J.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
I meant Manny
Mariner John - July 30, 2008
Manny don't front.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
Your wOBA numbers
What are you using to calculate wOBA? My in-season Marcels + WAR spreadsheet give me a .364 wOBA for Manny and a .344 wOBA for Hermida. I’ve got the difference between the two at about five runs the rest of the year.
This is unbelievably bad trade for Florida.
davidcameron - July 30, 2008
( .72*BB + .9*1B + 1.26*2B + 1.54*3B + 1.9*HR ) / PA
I was just using a flat three-year average because I couldn’t be bothered to weight.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
However, I obviously trust your Marcels more than my own cocktail napkin calculations.
I just don’t have access to them.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
Ahh, that's why
I used Sal Baxamus’a Marcel spreadsheet – just copy and paste. Pretty easy.
davidcameron - July 30, 2008
This is like a statistical genius conversation..
Numbers, asterisks, Marcels, spreadsheets.. I’m impressed
seattlesundevil - July 30, 2008
So much for genius
Jeff’s numbers were right – I made a transcription error. The offensive difference is about 7 runs the rest of the year.
davidcameron - July 30, 2008
I was happy to go ahead and not tell anyone about that.
Besides, geniuses make mistakes.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
Just text me good news tomorrow
and we’ll call it even.
davidcameron - July 30, 2008
Given the way things have gone in the past, I hope you're the one doing the texting.
Aaron Campeau - July 30, 2008
Did the text about Ichiro's dropped catch count as a negative?
I have a reputation to maintain.
Jeff Sullivan - July 30, 2008
This trade counts as bas news.
JI - July 30, 2008
Adrian Beltre to the Twins for Jose Vidro!
Graham MacAree - July 30, 2008
::sobs::
BrianL - July 30, 2008
Hey smart people
In the second comment here Tangotiger says to find runs above average per PA you “subtract the league average OBP from wOBA, and divide by 1.15.” But here it says “Run value per PA above average = (wOBA for player – wOBA for league) / 1.15 .” So which is it? And if it’s the latter, where can you find league average wOBA? I tried on firstinning.com but couldn’t find it
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - July 31, 2008
You can just plug the Baseball-Reference league averages into the wOBA equation
Jeff Sullivan - July 31, 2008
Thank ye kindly
Last Fan Of Jose Lopez - July 31, 2008
So now the real question.
If they’ll deal Hermida for Manny, what do they think Rhodes is worth?
DAMellen - July 30, 2008
Let this deal happen....
This would cause the Mets to panic and overpay for Ibanez.
PLU Tim - July 30, 2008
It'd be funny to see both teams overpay for LFs that can hit but are terrible at defense.
But I like the Marlins, so I hope that they pull their heads out of their asses before its too late.
Fin - July 30, 2008
What are the Mets going to overpay with?
David Wright?
Their system has already been pillaged.
Wilder. - July 31, 2008
No.
Matthew - July 31, 2008
I am pretty sure Manny may put some butts into the seats.
I can’t think of much more of a benefit of that.
Fin - July 30, 2008
than that*.
Fin - July 30, 2008
For two months until he leaves.
Teej - July 31, 2008
And it's Marlins fans.
They wouldn’t sell out if Jesus was playing CF and Felix was pitching
dbroncos31 - July 31, 2008
How could he play two positions at once?
Aaron Campeau - July 31, 2008
The Marlins owners should thank God that 200 people still show up every day.
Teej - July 31, 2008
This thread looks smaller than the last time I saw it...
Mariner John - August 1, 2008
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