This started as a game recap to take place of Jeff's usual recap and then I just kept going on my first bullet point to the extent that it morphed into its own feature-length post
Miguel Batista took the mound last night and immediately showed his renewed health by tossing fastballs in the high 80s. Last season, 14.9% of Miguel Batista's pitches had a start speed of 93 mph or higher. This season that number is down to 9.2%. Combined with his always troubling walk rates, Miguel Batista is either finished or injured (could be both) but one thing for sure is that for now he is ineffective.
Mike Blowers brought up the matter in question on the post-game, calling Batista's continued pitching through adversity a good quality, one which is to be admired. He even named Batista as the star performer last night over someone more qualified (Beltre, Ichiro). To add to our dead horse pile here on Lookout Landing, this is total frak. Personally, I think it's a byproduct of trying to cross-apply traits from other sports to baseball. Gritting it through injury can be beneficial in more team-dependent sports where such behaviour can inspire teammates to give more effort. In a sport like football (either one) or hockey, that's useful because effort actually means something. In baseball? It's highly marginalized.
Furthermore, as Jeff has many times pointed out, it's damaging to the team's overall talent level. While a hitter can play through minor injuries without impacting the team too much, a pitcher is a lone representative on the mound. If he sucks, he makes the team worse and markedly so. People would like to hold it up as a virtue, that the player is mentally tough or that he wants to win so badly that he's willing to play through pain. But here's the thing, baseball is a team sport and if the player wants the team to win so much, then he should be looking for the best opportunity to help get those wins whenever possible and that means recognizing when you yourself are costing the team those wins.
Now, I don't deny that major league players want to win and want it badly, but at the same time, I'd like to propose a motivation for this behavior that I feel weighs on their actions as well: the fear of being replaced. Nobody wants to admit that they are slipping, that they are worse now than they used to be. People generally only grudgingly admit that there are people better qualified than themselves. I don't blame them for this, it's a survival instinct and it's rooted deep in our genetic profile.
I suspect that rooted in every top athlete's psyche has to be the fear that if they sit down for an injury and open up playing time to someone else, that someone else might prove to be better than he is and the athlete might lose his spot. It's an understandable fear, anyone who's played sports (which includes myself) can empathize with it, but let's call it for what it is at a base level, selfish. No matter the motivation (most players probably want to keep playing in order to contribute to the team's winning, a noble goal) the player is putting his own interests (continued playing) ahead of what might be best for the team overall.
Our culture seems to have a fetish for people that try valiantly against long odds, no matter the outcome. And we view players that don't exhibit that drive on the surface as weak-willed or uncaring. We hold up our Rudys and our Willie Bloomquists as examples of ideal work ethic while spending disproportionally little time acknowledging the greatness of the Alburt Pujols or deriding the Erik Bedards for saying that they're hurt when people like Bedard and Pujols work just as hard as people like Willie Bloomquist. I don't propose to have a solution, or even to presume to call it a problem. I just want people to think more critically and not accept the media's portrayal at face value. Don't accept mine either. This is how I view it, nothing more or less.
0 recs | 162 comments
Matthew. If you want to be a respected voice and reach the average fan, please note the difference between its and it's.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
it's = contration of it is; its = possessive
(Matthew is correct, as far as I can tell.)
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Oh, except for the first line, italicized, "...its own feature-length post"
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
I await his changing of this and making me look ridiculous.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
And there it is.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I could hide your comments here
Matthew - August 26, 2008
I realise you have such power and respect it.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I think that was an offer, not a threat.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Typically Matthew is not that magnanimous.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
It actually was an offer.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
Thank you, kind overlord. You may hide these comments if you so choose.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I'll unhide them though
Graham MacAree - August 26, 2008
Rather peaceful with you gone during the day.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
semicolon to colon
should be
good article
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Anyone else find it funny the first 5 comments on this write-up are about the grammar?
Gomez - August 26, 2008
Well, not funny per se...
BrianL - August 26, 2008
I think it's a backhanded compliment.
When one writes well, it’s easier to spot the little mistakes. Plus it fit with the elite snobbery discussion.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
And misused semi-colons need to be corrected.
It’s a pretty poncy puncutation piece in the first place. Misusing it makes one look like a total poser.
Llewdor - August 26, 2008
Yeah, semicolons are like "whom"...
…if you aren’t absolutely certain of the correct usage, don’t use them at all.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Screw that. I use them when I want.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
Whomever would tell you; you weren't able to?
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
WHATEVER, I DO WHAT I WANT!
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
In the same way you do not capitalise.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
It's great to be exempt.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
I think you mean "Screw that; I use them when I want."
You’ll get the hang of it.
The Alaskan - August 26, 2008
Or you could just learn how to use them.
“Whom”, especially, isn’t hard. It’s an object.
Llewdor - August 26, 2008
Yeah...
“Learn how” to be “absolutely certain” :)
Your sig is hilarious.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Also...
…I didn’t mean “whom” is hard, just that misusing it looks pretentious, and it’s way better to just use “who” if you aren’t sure.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
While I'd like to agree, I work with people whose entire job is to know grammar, punctuation, etc.
And I’d say half of them know how to use whom properly. It’s just one of those things I don’t think a lot of Americans were taught at a young age. It’s hard for people adopt it later in life.
I think whom will be obsolete in a few decades anyway, so whatever. I won’t mind seeing it die.
Teej - August 26, 2008
Perhaps one day the Hollywood image of a ballplayer will disappear.
Perhaps people will call out pitchers who play through pain and realize that light-hitting, mediocre players don’t deserve the praise that has been heaped on them. Maybe then people will realize that “padding stats” actually benefits the team as a whole.
Until then, I’m stuck listening to Blowers spew off that shit.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
A great way to sum it all up.
Furthermore, Jeff is selfish for not admitting he’s injured in the best interest of himself for continued writing time. He has a fear deeply rooted in his genetic profile that Matthew will replace his writeups.
Double06 - August 26, 2008
We're experimenting with roles over the final five weeks since it's a lost season.
We might get some young kids some playing time, and try to build toward next season as we face a winter of change.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
I'm a little afraid of these young kids who will get playing time.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Hello there!
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
If that happens, I'll be the first to go.
It’s like replacing Felix with Piniero for the 09 season.
Faux - August 26, 2008
We're only giving them platoon roles to start with.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
This is a relief.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I'm just asking for a chance, Skip.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Whatever, I've been through flame wars
Gomez - August 26, 2008
Oh God
you’re going to trade me, NOLA, JI, seattlebruin, and Robert to another blog for a single blogger, aren’t you?
BrianL - August 26, 2008
You forgot Fogel.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
That's up to Jeff
Gomez - August 26, 2008
A fragile blogger at that
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
What would this place be like without us?
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Good?
JI - August 26, 2008
Quiet?
The Alaskan - August 26, 2008
Bluebird Banter?
BrianL - August 26, 2008
This.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Better
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
But who would suck up to Jeff?
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Fogel
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
I'd rather suck up to someone who's not a mod and is generally despised
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
LFoJL.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Suck up to marinator?
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
I'm waiting for AK to come back
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
You should go suck up to him on Churchill's blog
Oh – you should suck up to Coach
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
This makes me so, very sad.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Jeff doesn't need people to suck up to him
The man has perfectly suitable self-confidence.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
I wish to leech off of his self-confidence and awesomeness.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
goddammit
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
Which is why he tried to kill me three times when I met him
Robert - August 26, 2008
Why did he stop after three?
Gomez - August 26, 2008
He recognized the familiar scent of failure and got discouraged
Robert - August 26, 2008
He thinks Robert is cute.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
This also.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
These.
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
Those
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
Thus.
…wait
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Thous.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Thems.
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
Stupid dead weight bringing down my trade value
Robert - August 26, 2008
You're the Kam Mickolio of this deal
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
I loved Kam and he would have been my new Potatoes this year
Robert - August 26, 2008
I have more trade value than you.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
It's not just a sports ethic, however, to work through pain.
It’s reflected in people’s inability to stay home sick from work, or take a vacation, or even take a lunch break. Anything along these lines is a weakness, and US culture demands strength at all times.
We want results now, hence, continuing to do our jobs even when weakened. We fail to look to the future and acknowledge that perhaps healing will make us better long-term. Instead we want whatever we can get in the moment. In this way, is it really surprising that Mariners are playing through pain?
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Surprising? No.
But it’s no less infuriating to me. And you’re right, it’s a rampant cultural trait that permeates many areas.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
As cultural traits go, it's remarkably beneficial
So it doesn’t work so well in baseball…. meh.
marc w - August 26, 2008
See, I would disagree.
I think there are many chronic illnesses that go along with working too hard, at a stressed out level. In addition, it affects social relationships and family life. To say it’s a positive cultural trait is not necessarily the case.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
It hasn't reached that point, but I just want to throw in a caution on this steering towards politics as far as cultural comparisons
Matthew - August 26, 2008
I honestly wasn't going there, but noted.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
So many undefined terms, so little time.
Are you really advocating that people shouldn’t work if they’re not ‘feeling it’ on any given day? If not, then what’s ‘working too hard’ and who gets to quantify it?
People not coming in to work because they heard it was going to be cold or because they have a lot going on right now affects a hell of a lot, including the social relationships of their colleagues. How do you weigh that against the incremental utility gains from only working when you really want to?
marc w - August 26, 2008
I think you took my comments and went to an extreme that I certainly was not aiming for.
But I don’t want to go too far down this road, as it is Matthew’s post and he’s asked us to tread lightly.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Working hard is a positive trait
Insisting that others work hard to a fault is not.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
No, succeeding is a positive trait.
Whether you work hard is irrelevant as long as you produce resutls.
Llewdor - August 26, 2008
This.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
Please go out into the working class and relay this to the thousands of companies across the nation
Thus, we can say that
Working smart > Working hard
Gomez - August 26, 2008
Exactly.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Results based analysis is stupid
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
Only when you are trying to predict the future.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
What's amazing is how many companies get away with making decisions via results based analysis
Gomez - August 26, 2008
I'm sorry, I cannot see the infuriating without the use of capital letters.
You’re going to have to spell it out for me.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Also
Workplaces and peers tend to look down on those who take time off to heal up. Some people have sick-time that’s respected, but most don’t, and most Americans would find their jobs threatened if they called out sick for a single day.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
That sounds like hyperbole, but look at it the other way
people who take lots of sick leave at the first sign of a sniffle really are bad for organizations. Taking the ‘pitching through pain is bad for your career’ axiom in baseball and using it as a way to indict work ethic doesn’t make sense.
marc w - August 26, 2008
Actually, I'm not deriding it
I’m just illustrating the perspective from which we get the ‘players that don’t play through pain have girlparts’ mindset.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
Heh.
I was told that if I didn’t take my days off, I would be reprimanded.
This after two years, and only taking days off for my dad’s funeral.
Unfortunately, I like my job a lot more than the rest of my life.
Faux - August 26, 2008
You do your job better if you take regular time off, though.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Not really.
A lot of my job involves long running projects, and dropping everything for a few days knocks me off my stride, and getting caught up is harder than just gritting through a couple weekends a month.
Faux - August 26, 2008
OK well...
…I’m certainly not going to tell you how to do your job (between projects, maybe, tho?), but it is generally true that humans do their job better if they take regular time off. Even relatively infrequently.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Same at my office.
If I show up sick, I’m in trouble.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
That's part of the problem.
I don’t get sick. Haven’t had anything but allergies for as long as I can remember. My work lumps vaca and sick days together, and so I end up with 19 days + ~14 comp travel days at the end of each year. If I called out sick every once in a while, all the days added up at the end of the year wouldn’t look so bad.
The only reason they are pushing the issue is they got worried when they saw the fact that I was opening the building I was at last year at 0430 and closing it at 2200 for all of Q4.
Personally, I think it’s stupid. I’ll work as long as I have the energy, and I prefer to. I don’t expect it out of anyone else. If I felt overloaded, I would have taken a day off, or worked the set hours and let someone else close shop.
Faux - August 26, 2008
God I wish my company lumped vaca and sick together.
Having a set amount of sick days is stupid.
Matthew - August 26, 2008
We used to get 14 days vaca.
And the “Honor System” for sick days. It only took one person to ruin that.
Faux - August 26, 2008
My company just calls them "personal days"
so really it’s like having extra vacation, except they don’t get mad if you enter your time after the fact
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
Yet so is having to use all your vacation time as sick time when you have a genuine medical condition.
Requiring all vacation time to be gone before extended sick leave is used screws you over. Then when you go to actually use a vacation, there’s nothing there, and you have to take unpaid leave.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
When I worked at Fry's I wasn't even told I got vacation time
And when I quit they mentioned how I just forfeited it all.
Robert - August 26, 2008
My mother got written up for taking 3 days off to bury her mother after she died
No joke.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
My brother worked at the Sears automotive department
and was fired for attending his own high school graduation. Despite a three month advance notice.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Man alive
Some employers are generous and flexible, and some are just fucked-up-stubborn against time off.
Gomez - August 26, 2008
It was my brother's first job, and he was pretty upset about it.
Told him he was better off elsewhere, because an employer who does something like that is just going to screw you at every opportunity.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Yes
Things like this show you who isn’t worth working for.
(Sadly, my mother stayed with the casino, as she didn’t have any other recourse. She’s still there, and they pay her far better than she’d make anywhere else)
Gomez - August 26, 2008
Western culture values effort over contribution.
Aside from promoting mediocrity, it also prevents us from measuring contribution effectively because people will try to incorporate effort into that measure, which is both unknowable and irrelevant.
Llewdor - August 26, 2008
As long as people remember Kirk Gibson and Curt Shilling this will never go away
Robert - August 26, 2008
Robert brings up an excellent point
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
They played well.
JI - August 26, 2008
Key.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
Yes but people don't remember the ones that didn't.
Robert - August 26, 2008
Larry Walker?
JI - August 26, 2008
Can you name which injured players torpedoed our season last year?
Robert - August 26, 2008
I'm gonna go with Lofa Tatupu
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
And DJ Hackett
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
Raul, Sexson
JI - August 26, 2008
And Weaver
Point is you remember way more success injury stories than you do failures.
Robert - August 26, 2008
Weaver wasn't really hurt was he?
JI - August 26, 2008
Suckitis can be very painful when you're an established Major League pitcher
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
People don't remember Larry Walker?
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I remember him looking horrible in the 2005 playoffs
He hardly played in the second half that year (although when he did play, he played very well), but it’s clear he wasn’t 100%.
JI - August 26, 2008
Alber tPujols never gets much credit for playing hurt
but he played hurt for significant portions of 2005 and 2007 and it caused him to be less fantastic than usual.
JI - August 26, 2008
Is tPujols made up of individual batted ball results to come up with a true offensive value for him?
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
thePujols.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
Yes.
JI - August 26, 2008
Pitchers who pitch through pain and get injured even worse are the best
Dewey N - August 26, 2008
In fact one of them even shut us down last night
Robert - August 26, 2008
Replacement Level Blogger
I’m the replacement level blogger they fear. I’m here. I’m a grizzled vet among the Mariner bloggers.
And I have admin privileges. I’m Matthew’s worst nightmare.
Steve Nelson - August 26, 2008
Bah? Replacement level?
I can find better talent over the waiver wire.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Than Steve Nelson?
Bite your tongue, you know not of what you speak.
Graham MacAree - August 26, 2008
"erik bedard is a manly man even though he speaks french"
lol
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
cat
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
Hm.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
Too many responses?
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
None of which are nice.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
I assumed as such.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
JI - August 26, 2008
There's one.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
I should capitalize "lol
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
unquote, question mark
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
I hope you meant
question mark, unquote
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
No...
…as in: I should capitalize “lol”?
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
.... whoosh ....
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
No, I get it, but that's not correct.
Also, original post references the “related links” in the original post, which includes “erik bedard is a manly man even though he speaks french”, which I thought was very funny.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
See, when I was in school I was told to put all end-sentence punctuation inside the quotes.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
And I've been wondering for years if this is grammatically correct.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
It is
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
That is not correct.
It depends whether the quote “includes” the punctuation.
It would be correct to type “Is the quote a question?”
But would it still be correct if “the quote is not a question”?
Generally, quoted sentence fragments have punctuation outside, quoted complete sentences have punctuation inside. But it varies.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
You may be correct upon further review
seattlebruin - August 26, 2008
My 7th grade English teacher lied to me.
BrianL - August 26, 2008
On one hand, proper English usage changes over time.
On the other, yes, probably.
great gonzalez - August 26, 2008
It's common in North America for it to be taught that way.
But it’s wrong.
Llewdor - August 26, 2008
Semicolons, too.
Teej - August 26, 2008
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that I am not always against people playing through pain
Playing through pain is only bad if it (A) makes you worse than your replacement, and (B) jeopardizes your long-term health.
Batista pitching through pain was stupid because hurt Batista (and even healthy Batista) are unthinkably horrible. Beltre playing through pain is not stupid because he is not putting himself at further risk and he is still light years ahead of who would take his place.
Jeff Sullivan - August 26, 2008
Jeff Clement has a slow bat.
JI - August 26, 2008
Jeff Clement pinch hit through the pain last night and did just fine.
Kirsten Schlewitz - August 26, 2008
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