Let's see what we've got here...
| Rk | Player | Team | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Pts |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Joe Mauer | Minnesota Twins | 24 | 3 | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 371 |
| 2 | Ben Zobrist | Tampa Bay Rays | - | 10 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 1 | - | 1 | - | - | 172 |
| 3 | Mark Teixeira | New York Yankees | 2 | 3 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 7 | 1 | - | - | 158 |
| 4 | Derek Jeter | New York Yankees | 1 | 5 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 157 |
| 5 | Evan Longoria | Tampa Bay Rays | - | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 106 |
| 6 | Zack Greinke | Kansas City Royals | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | - | 2 | - | - | - | 92 |
| 7 | Miguel Cabrera | Detroit Tigers | - | - | 3 | 1 | 2 | 4 | - | 2 | - | 5 | 74 |
| 8 | Kevin Youkilis | Boston Red Sox | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 8 | 1 | - | 69 |
| 9 | Chone Figgins | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | - | 3 | 4 | 1 | - | 1 | 3 | 1 | 60 |
| 10 | Jason Bay | Boston Red Sox | - | 1 | - | 4 | 2 | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | 54 |
| 11 | Kendry Morales | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | 4 | - | - | 1 | - | - | 1 | - | 39 |
| 12 | Ichiro Suzuki | Seattle Mariners | - | - | 1 | - | 2 | - | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 37 |
| 13 | Franklin Gutierrez | Seattle Mariners | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | - | 1 | 2 | 34 |
| 14 | Justin Verlander | Detroit Tigers | - | - | - | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | 32 |
| 15 | Felix Hernandez | Seattle Mariners | - | - | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 3 | 2 | - | 31 |
| 16 | Jason Bartlett | Tampa Bay Rays | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | - | - | - | 1 | 22 |
| 17 | Alex Rodriguez | New York Yankees | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | - | - | 18 |
| 18 | Roy Halladay | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | 1 | - | - | - | 16 |
| 19 | Adam Lind | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | - | - | 2 | - | - | 1 | 4 | 16 |
| 20 | Dustin Pedroia | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 4 | 1 | 13 |
| 21 | Bobby Abreu | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | 12 |
| 22 | Aaron Hill | Toronto Blue Jays | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | - | - | 12 |
| 23 | Mariano Rivera | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 9 |
| 24 | Torii Hunter | Los Angeles Angels | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 8 |
| 25 | Brian Roberts | Baltimore Orioles | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | - | - | 7 |
| 26 | CC Sabathia | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 1 | - | 6 |
| 27 | Carl Crawford | Tampa Bay Rays | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 1 | 6 |
| 28 | J.D. Drew | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 29 | Jon Lester | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 30 | Jonathan Papelbon | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 31 | Robinson Cano | New York Yankees | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 32 | Victor Martinez | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | - | 5 |
| 33 | Michael Cuddyer | Minnesota Twins | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 4 |
| 34 | Shin-Soo Choo | Cleveland Indians | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | - | - | 4 |
| 35 | Michael Young | Texas Rangers | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 | 3 |
| 36 | Jacoby Ellsbury | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| 37 | Jason Kubel | Minnesota Twins | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | - | 2 |
| 38 | Alex Gonzalez | Boston Red Sox | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
| 39 | Nick Markakis | Baltimore Orioles | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | - | 1 | 1 |
Zobrist posts the highest (position player) WAR in the American League and is absent from six ballots.
Mark Teixeira gets two first-place votes despite being an average first baseman and having one of the lowest clutch scores in the league, for whatever that's worth.
Assorted other ridiculousness.
Mauer's (probably) the smart pick, so in terms of what matters the network got this one right, but there are some stupid bloggers out there.
0 recs | 120 comments
we got Mauer right...
and bully for a high showing by Zobrist
but definitely some weird ballots… did someone hand in an all Red Sox ballot?
Freneau - November 12, 2009
Drew, Lester, Papelbon and V Martinez are all at #6, so it couldn't be the same one.
waldo rojas - November 12, 2009
Torii at #3? Hm.
waldo rojas - November 12, 2009
Golly, I wonder who submitted that ballot?
Goose - November 12, 2009
Wasn't me
But I did screw up and leave Zobrist off my ballot…completely forgot about him. Also, I’m the only Kubel vote.
WiHaloFan - November 12, 2009
I saw your ballot on HH, and outside of Zobrist and Morales, hard to argue with the rest
with regards to Kubel, the definition of “most valuable” is so ephemeral that I would have no problem with voting virtually any player who finished with 2 WAR+ in the 8-10 spots
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
I admit it, Morales was a homer pick
Leaving Zobrist off was stupid. Fortunately it didn’t effect the outcome.
WiHaloFan - November 12, 2009
Alex Gonzalez?
abender20 - November 12, 2009
That is by far the stupidest part of this
njd.aitken - November 13, 2009
Greinke had the highest WAR of anyone in the AL.
Can you make the basic case why Joe Mauer should be the MVP then? Does WAR not translate well between pitching and position players?
Eyebrows - November 12, 2009 via mobile
Fangraphs' pitcher WAR is based on FIP and that strips away a lot of things a pitcher may have done right or wrong
Jeff Sullivan - November 12, 2009
Can there be a WAR calculation from tRA?
Phil Hatzenbuehler - November 12, 2009
There can and is!
Matthew - November 12, 2009
Hey, look at that!
Phil Hatzenbuehler - November 12, 2009
At what site would this be located?
Poochie - November 12, 2009
halosheaven.com
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
I was told never to go there
Poochie - November 12, 2009
I assume it is some sort of goatse trick site with a name like that.
Robert - November 12, 2009
I think the case for Grienke is pretty strong
FIP biases aside. According to Stats Corner, his pitching runs above average was 68. Mauer was 54.5 batting runs above average. Mauer didn’t play the whole season at catcher (only 109 games) due to his injury, so you can’t give him the full positional adjustment (12.5 runs) for catching, and you have to add the penalty to his 29 games (I think that’s the number) at DH. Even if he’s a +5 runs catcher over his 109 appearances as catcher, he nets maybe about 10 runs on defense all told. That gets him to 64.5.
So even if I’m being a little stingy with defensive value, Grienke was a few runs better than Mauer. One thing I don’t know is whether leverage is figured into any of this. Mauer was not, by the way, good in the clutch this season and Grienke pitched 6 complete games.
philosofool - November 13, 2009
Choo at 34?
WHY DO THEY ALWAYS GET BETTER WHEN THEY LEAVE???
Robert - November 12, 2009
GOD I KNOW
That HoRam is just tearing it up, isn’t he?
Eyebrows - November 12, 2009 via mobile
Not to mention Yuni!
Eyebrows - November 12, 2009 via mobile
Ahahahahaha -2.1 WAR for 2009.
Eyebrows - November 12, 2009 via mobile
I think I'll call Dayton Moore and offer to stay on the DL for 100K a year.
Much better bargain than Yuni.
abender20 - November 12, 2009
The player's union would take issue with that
Trenchtown - November 12, 2009
I rather us had brought him back instead of Griffey
Robert - November 12, 2009
Me would have been unhappy with that.
abender20 - November 12, 2009
http://www.virtualtrials.com/survivescottm.cfm
Robert - November 12, 2009
Yeah, but you're a fake fan and don't count.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
I made a joke about this to you days ago.
Robert - November 12, 2009
Real fans root for their team to win.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
Congrats to Derek Jeter
who wins the “Player to be named in each spot of an MVP ballot” Award!
Matthew - November 12, 2009
Cycle!
Eyebrows - November 12, 2009 via mobile
Courageous
OlSalty - November 12, 2009
Jeter was fantastic this year
I can’t believe he placed so low on so many ballots
Poochie - November 12, 2009
I put him 5th or 6th, somewhere around there.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
That's within the margin of error
Poochie - November 12, 2009
It's a SSS
seattlecougar - November 12, 2009
No Zobeast #1 votes?
His defensive versatility and baserunning advantage give him added value that WAR doesn’t count which could easily negate Mauer’s defense.
lailaihei - November 12, 2009 via mobile
WAR is likely underestimating Mauer''s value
Poochie - November 12, 2009
Depends if you believe in clutch being part of MVP or not
Graham MacAree - November 12, 2009
WAR also doesn't have catcher's defense
and it might be lacking a bit in positional adjustment given catchers offensive games suffer beyond just the general scarcity issue.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
The clutch penalty probably overrides both of those
Mauer was baaaad in the clutch.
Graham MacAree - November 12, 2009
He had 94 high leverage PAs and hit .329/.426/.494
He was only bad relative to himself.
Jeff Sullivan - November 12, 2009
Teixeira: .992 OPS HL, .948 OPS overall
This is weird.
Jeff Sullivan - November 12, 2009
Right, but that still takes one win off him
Graham MacAree - November 12, 2009
So in otherwords the MVP is just as vague and undefined with "smart voters" as it always has been
Hooray progress!
Poochie - November 12, 2009
Here's the thing.
The MVP is meant to be awarded to the best overall player in the league. However, though the best player in the league is the player with the best defensive and offensive production, the MVP usually focuses completely on offensive output.
.Taylor - November 12, 2009
No, there's a debate over how heavily you should weigh clutch stats
Poochie - November 12, 2009
At least it's an intelligent debate though
Graham MacAree - November 12, 2009
Kinda hard to have an intelligent debate about that
“I think clutch should be considered because it provides value”
“I think clutch should not because it’s mainly luck”
I mean, it’s more intelligent, but basically impossible to prove either way.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
If it could be proved one way or another, it wouldn't be a debate.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
Sorry
It’s basically impossible to provide evidence for either side. I’m sure you agree their has to be some objective evidence (even if it’s social science) in a good debate.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
Not really
I can have interesting discussions on which is the best style of beer without any semblance of evidence
Graham MacAree - November 13, 2009
We're from Seattle. We can argue about anything.
.Taylor - November 13, 2009
I don't see what geography has to do with this
Aaron Campeau - November 13, 2009
True
Poochie - November 12, 2009
Gutierrez posted a 2.44 clutch rating, as opposed to Mark Teixeira's -1.73.
To what degree would you suggest incorporating this “clutchiness,” Graham? In this case, it just happens to highlight the fact that Gutierrez’s defense made him an overall better player than Tex, but there are plenty of great position players who aren’t clutch. Is that enough to devalue them as an MVP candidate?
.Taylor - November 13, 2009
I can't make suggestions on whether or not to include clutch hitting
It’s just a matter of whether or not you feel clutch hitting ought to be included
Graham MacAree - November 13, 2009
Teix at #3? Uh, yeah....
RBI wooo!
stupidquestions - November 12, 2009
Abreu over Drew is hilarious, too.
abender20 - November 12, 2009
Didn't you hear? He made all the other players better through watching him bat!
msb - November 12, 2009
Just out of curiosity, who voted for LL?
Jeff and Matthew?
Any way we can get a mods vote and a community vote for one of these polls?
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
I would love to see a community vote at one of the sites that have shitty communities
Poochie - November 12, 2009
Jonathan Papelbon for MVP!
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
What about that one blog whose all major contributors are trolls?
Robert - November 12, 2009
Lookoutlanding.com?
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
I voted 11 times
because many people didn’t care and traded me their votes for office supplies.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
If you really voted eleven times then how come Jose Lopez didn't get any votes??
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to.
abender20 - November 12, 2009
You always have loved you some Alex Gonzalez.
abender20 - November 12, 2009
My 9th ballot was composed completely of names drawn at random.
Matthew - November 12, 2009
so...
1. Derek Jeter
2. Jason Bay
3. Jason Bartlett
4. Jason Bartlett
5. Jason Bartlett
6. Jonathan Papelbon
7. Michael Cuddyer
8. Brian Roberts
9. Jason Kubel
10. Alex Gonzalez
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
I really hope someone just voted for Derek Jeter ten times
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
That would explain why Mauer was completely left off one ballot.
RunningFool - November 12, 2009
I think it's neat that Zobrist fared so well
Who here thinks he’ll even be in the top 10 in the “real” MVP voting?
Poochie - November 12, 2009
I could see him crack the top ten, but not the top five.
But it will be funny when people like Abreu get more votes
Matthew - November 12, 2009
I would bet he is left off a few ballots entirely because he is a utility player
Poochie - November 12, 2009
But also because of the stupids
abender20 - November 12, 2009
Same thing
A-Rod was denide an MVP in 1996 because some writers “don’t vote for number 2 hitters”
Poochie - November 12, 2009
With a simplistic approach of just looking down the list and comparing to Fangraphs' WAR leaderboard,
Bay is the first name that jumps out as way out of place. 31st for WAR (3.5), 10th in the voting. Overall, the SBN folks really did pretty well.
Lanky - November 12, 2009
Well, that and Teixeira coming in about 8 spots too high.
Lanky - November 12, 2009
Alex Gonzalez?
baetown415 - November 12, 2009
I stopped looking after Bay.
I was referring to the performance of the SBN group overall – a little homerism for places 6 thru 10 doesn’t bother me any.
Lanky - November 12, 2009
Amusing to me...
Verlander and Felix flip-flopped from Cy Young to MVP ballots. Verlander must have had some serious offensive output in his interleague appearances!
seattlecougar - November 12, 2009
People are just disappointed that Felix fell off so hard offensively this year.
His OPS dropped by 4.857 points, and his OPS+ dropped by 1222 points. With that kind of offensive drop off, you’ve got to ding him.
joof - November 12, 2009
Yes, we expect Felix to hit a grand slam in every at bat.
He is that good.
ARock - November 13, 2009
Where's Marco Scutaro?
Worth a full win more than Jason Bay this year. Also put up more WAR than Hill and Lind. Probably not worth a 10th place vote, but if Jacoby Ellsbury is…
Manzanillos Cup - November 12, 2009
It's unbelievable how many people around baseball are failing to give Zobrist any real recognition
gregrabble - November 12, 2009
Awards voting formula:
[ERA or OPS] * ([Your Team’s Budget] / [Average League Budget])
seattlecougar - November 12, 2009
Don't insult OPS by putting it next to ERA please
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
They're pretty similar.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
Naw, the only problem with OPS is weighting
ERA is just retarded.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
They're both completely pointless at this juncture.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
By that logic, so is tRA if you have LIPS (uses base runs)
There may be no point to OPS given wOBA, but don’t relegated it to the land of ERA.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
I think you are totally missing the point.
Shocking.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
Edify me please
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
You said that OPS was similar to ERA
I say it isn’t because it is a lot closer to the “right” stat (wOBA) than ERA is to the right stat (tRA, LIPS). You’re point about it being superfluous is valid and is also disingenuous, because it has nothing to do with the original argument.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
The "original argument" was pretty a clearly a joke
which is something you seem completely incapable of understanding.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
"They're pretty similar"
Was a joke?
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
No, the post you responded to was a joke
and for the purposes of the joke, yes, they are pretty similar.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
I don't give a shit about the post I responded too
That had nothing to do with your statement.
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
Actually it had everything to do with your statement.
Aaron Campeau - November 12, 2009
This subthread is closed
Play nice
Jeff Sullivan - November 12, 2009
Wait who the fuck voted for Alex Gonzalez?
gregrabble - November 12, 2009
.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/11/12/1143024/2009-sbn-al-mvp-voting-results#24966435
seattlebruin - November 12, 2009
Oh wow, I thought he was joking
gregrabble - November 12, 2009
Who ever voted for Texeira deserves to be neutered
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
Voted for him at all?
Or just voted for him 1st?
Matthew - November 12, 2009
1st
vivaelpujols - November 12, 2009
Another thing about Grienke
While Mauer may have been better (the two were awfully close, see my response above), there’s little doubt that Grienke was among the best players in the AL last season. He got just eleven total votes, but 18 voters ranked at least ten players higher this season. That’s pretty bad. While the rule of thumb that hitters are more valuable than pitchers is right, it’s getting carried too far here.
philosofool - November 13, 2009
Some people don't vote for pitchers because they have their own award
Poochie - November 13, 2009
I am of that breed of elk
Matthew - November 13, 2009
As am I!
Poochie - November 13, 2009
I was really expecting a reply accusing me of being an idiot here.
Kudos.
Matthew - November 14, 2009
I was expecting you to accuse me of not being an elk, but rather a dog
Kudos sir!
Poochie - November 14, 2009
i'm confused
people voted for Teixeira and Aaron Hill, which means they like shiny numbers. But people also voted for Gutierrez and Zobrist which means they like defense and can look past the shiny numbers. Which is it?
Flamefox111 - November 13, 2009
The answer may lie in that 'people', as you correctly say,
is a pluralized form of ‘person’ and that more than one individual person voted in this award and that as per the latest terms of agreement, acceptance of a hive mind was not listed under the requirements of being an SBN blogger.
Matthew - November 13, 2009
Just an LL commenter
CapSea - November 13, 2009
Back to room 101 for you.
Matthew - November 13, 2009
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