Right now, signs seem to be that the Mariners will be receiving Cliff Lee in this three-way trade. It is not yet official, as Roy Halladay still has to okay a contract extension with the Phillies, but many consider that nothing but a formality, so I'm pretty comfortable with the feeling that this is a done deal. As such (and with the understanding that, yeah, this could all still blow up):
- Over the last two years, Lee has thrown 495.1 innings over 70 starts, postseason included. His ERA over that span is under three, his FIP is under three, his xFIP is well under four, and his tRA is well under four. While he's not likely to sustain his low rate of home runs, this isn't one of those situations where regression turns a seemingly good pitcher into a disappointing one - even allowing for some statistical normalcy, Lee still comes out looking aces. He is the definition of a workhorse, and though he's not young, the worst injury he's ever had is a hernia, so there are few better bets for 2010. No single pitcher is a guarantee, but Lee's about as close as you're going to get. And we don't even need to worry about a league adjustment.
- Lee succeeds in the same way that Ben Sheets used to succeed - by just throwing strikes over and over with sufficiently good stuff to maintain a solid strikeout rate. He doesn't miss a ton of bats - his contact rate is actually below-average - but he's consistently ahead in the count, which puts him at a significant advantage. In a way, he and Felix take remarkably different paths towards a similar end result, and it'll be all kinds of fun to watch them BACK TO BACK OH MY GOD
- OH MY GOD
- It's important not to pay too much attention to early reports of what the Mariners are giving up, here. There are a ton of names floating around and, without confirmation, we're essentially left guessing. But while everyone's nervous about how much we're losing, remember that Lee didn't bring back an amazing haul from Philly last July, and now he only has a year left on his contract. Pitchers with a year left generally don't get jaw-dropping returns, no matter how good they are. Johan Santana only got Carlos Gomez and some pieces, and Santana even negotiated a long-term contract. We will lose some real talented young players, but barring complete surprise, this is not a trade that's going to gut the system, because good executives don't gut the system for a guy on a one-year deal.
- It's also important to remember, as Graham has pointed out, that Cliff Lee's a virtual lock to be a Type A free agent next winter. Which means we can either sign him to an extension, trade him midseason, or let him walk and collect a pair of draft picks. Even though he's set to be a free agent, it is highly unlikely that he only makes a one-year impact.
- That Lee is a free agent next winter is, of course, a big concern, since the Mariners are good but by no means league favorites. The odds right now are against his remaining here for a while. He's only set to make $9m in 2010, and he's going to want his payday. That said, letting him pitch in this ballpark with this defense...I don't think Lee's going to be granting anyone any kind of discount, but if the Mariners can convince him that this is as perfect a situation as any, they could lock him up before next fall. If they want to. He's a lefty in a big stadium with an amazing group of gloves and a front office that's moving the organization in the right direction. Seattle's a great place for a guy like Lee.
- Remember when Daisuke Matsuzaka was making his home debut and Felix stole the spotlight by throwing a one-hitter? The Red Sox signed John Lackey this morning. Anyone notice? Suck it Boston.
- It took something like two months for those damn Erik Bedard rumors to come to fruition. I woke up this morning thinking about Ian Snell and hours later we're a Roy Halladay signature away from grabbing Cliff Lee out of the blue. Jack Zduriencik is a magician. Rumors fly around all the time, but who had him getting Lee? Or Figgins? Or Gutierrez? It can be aggravating to follow a team with a front office this quiet, but it can also be the most exhilarating thing in the world.
- The Angels lost Chone Figgins, they lost John Lackey, they missed out on Roy Halladay, they missed out on Cliff Lee, and if the Red Sox finish this Mike Lowell deal, they'll probably miss out on Adrian Beltre. They did manage to land Hideki Matsui, but that's by no means a high-impact addition. If you thought it was frustrating to miss Rich Harden, imagine how Tony Reagins must feel.
- Cliff Lee does not, on his own, make us a great team. He just adds a handful of wins. I know it's no fun to look at things this way, since everyone wants to daydream about the Felix/Lee 1-2 punch leading us to the Series, but it is something we all have to keep in mind. That said, this division - once again - lacks a strong frontrunner, so these added wins are huge. And Z isn't done. Because Lee only costs $9m this year, we still have at least $10m or so to address other needs, and there exists the possibility that ownership could be convinced to spend even more.
- This can't be for real.
- You know who's going to be really excited about this? Felix. That couldn't hurt.
- Ian Snell walked more batters in 145 innings last year than Cliff Lee has walked in his last 489.
Wow, sexier than Bedard!
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
Those are fightings words to some.
Eyebrows - December 14, 2009 via mobile
What can I say, I prefer a nice suit to camo on a fishing boat.
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
Growl
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Down girl
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
(Cliff Lee *is* sexy though!)
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
I'd fuck him
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
Yeah, me too
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Nice.
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
And here this morning I was feeling bad for you.
Seeing that without Bedard or Branyan officially on board, the burly factor was down quite a bit.
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Still have Jack Wilson.
Eyebrows - December 14, 2009 via mobile
I said burly, not hurly.
He’s a total coyote arm.
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Perhaps I should clarify:
This comment was only meant to highlight the superlative sexiness of Cliff Lee by comparing him to Erik Bedard, who is already known to possess sexy qualities. Not sure if that helps, but there it is.
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
Now I see why Z wasn't going after Lackey...
(Well, aside from the cash/years—ick)
He felt he needed to counter Jack Wilson/Mike Carp and Lackey would’ve just made this team unwatchably ugly.
Adam B - December 14, 2009
I'd start talking contract extension as soon as he gets off the plane.
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
sexy, sexy signing
I really hope the ownership can toss out a few million more to make a serious run this year, if it’s looking this special and if Jack Z can manage a roster
Will Kier - December 14, 2009
no "if" on the Z roster talent
Will Kier - December 14, 2009
This probably pushes us to ~82 wins give or take
With, as you mentioned, some room left to move and 1B/DH still unfilled and currently filled with little to nothing.
Matthew - December 14, 2009
How are things looking in Sexy Russel land?
Are we still in the hunt for him?
Robert Lintott - December 14, 2009
Almost certainly yes
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
This feeling of... what's the phrase... "Enjoying baseball" is so refreshing.
Robert Lintott - December 14, 2009
Have Jack work his magic
to turn Morrow, Saunders and Lopez into Albert Pujols.
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
BACK TO BACK OH MY GOD
lemonverbena - December 14, 2009
Speaking of which,
you know who’s still available…
Matthew - December 14, 2009
Still have more money left than we need for Branyan...
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
But who is left...
That would actually want to drop cash on?
…Well, on the free-agent market, I don’t know if I would mind another trade however. _
Adam B - December 14, 2009
Randy or Bedard would be neat
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
Randy Randy Randy
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Unit and Griffey as M's teammates again would definitely put asses in Safeco seats
Not to mention BACK TO BACK OH MY GOD
lemonverbena - December 14, 2009
We're bringing Curt Schilling out of retirement?
Goose - December 14, 2009
One year of the Unit?
Why not?
tait644 - December 14, 2009
I didn't know I could orgasm reading...
My Bavasi-gland is still pumping cynicism juice through my veins in an effort to quell my adrenal response. As long as Moore and Triunfel aren’t being shown the door, I think it will lose.
Adam B - December 14, 2009
Janic - December 14, 2009
If you could just get the subtitle there to go away...
esoteric - December 14, 2009
Subject line, dammit.
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
What's your point?
When I do a spur-of-the-moment image search I don’t give a rats rear end about sourcing.
Adam B - December 14, 2009
He put Jeff's face on it.
Teej - December 14, 2009
Huh. So he did.
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
It's exactly the same with a kind of aging process, back-of-the-milk carton factor.
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Seriously.
Morrow + a C-prospect for Dunn?
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
Adam Dunn?
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
???
.
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
This guy has a better K rate.
Adam B - December 14, 2009
So?
tait644 - December 14, 2009
Hellllll no
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Why?
Dunn is terrible.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
He'd be a fine DH if we had room on the roster for a DH-only guy.
Teej - December 14, 2009
No he isn't.
tait644 - December 14, 2009
If he has to play the field he is, and we already have a left-handed DH
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
LF Comment - DUH
DH Comment – Griffey is not our DH
tait644 - December 14, 2009
No, he is
he’s just not very good at it.
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
He was only worth 1.2 wins last year.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
Just get Nick Johnson.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
He's really only worth having as a DH
BrettJMiller - December 14, 2009
And not worth the price
BrettJMiller - December 14, 2009
Especially with guys like Branyan and Nick Johnson available.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
.394 wOBA in the NL, so he'd be a decent DH, at least 2 wins
but still, we already have that roster spot filled, and Dunn would cost talent to acquire, so no thanks
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Griffey is not going to be our starting DH barring something crazy this offseason.
I don’t see how that spot is filled.
BrettJMiller - December 14, 2009
Until we have someone playing more DH then Griffey
I’m going to assume he is our DH.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
It's still a roster spot down
like Dave has pointed out, assuming 12 pitchers and 8 position players, you have five more spots
Griffey
Backup C
Backup OF
Backup IF
Preferably right-handed batter who can play DH
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
This defense stays healthy I'd really like to see one of the bullpen spots go away.
Seems like an ace defense ought to be worth enough extra innings out of a healthy starting rotation.
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Well with Felix and Lee
We could probably get rid of one of the bullpen spots
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
Good point
It’s been a while since we had two starters who can go 200+ innings.
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Wow, I like how this actually makes sense.
CapSea - December 14, 2009
LANGERHANS!!!
I Lick Squirrels - December 14, 2009
I'm getting excited about the rotation next year.
Felix, Lee, Morrow, RRS, and Snell. That has good upside.
Kirk - December 14, 2009 via mobile
Cameron is speculating that Morrow may be going as part of the trade.
EnglishMariner - December 14, 2009
Whatever
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
MEANS MORE FISTER!
Matthew - December 14, 2009
Hey Angels,
Do you want to get fisted to death?
Robert - December 14, 2009
If Morrow and Saunders are included, it's not an A trade
tait644 - December 14, 2009
What about Or?
JY - December 14, 2009
I'm cool with one going
Just not both.
And I agree w/Jeff – Morrow going is better than Saunders going.
tait644 - December 14, 2009
Yeah.
I watched Morrow dominate the Yankees on local TV here, but I have trouble believing he can do it consistently and the possibility that he was just making crap up about wanting to be a reliever because of his condition, or whatever it was, kind of left a sour taste in my mouth.
JY - December 14, 2009
Better hold off on that Morrow part . . .
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
Is cautiously ecstatic a real emotion? Because that's how I feel.
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
That's how I'm feeling so it must be.
Eyeball Kid - December 14, 2009
I'm getting excited about the rotation next year.
Felix, Lee, Morrow, RRS, and Snell. That has good upside.
Kirk - December 14, 2009 via mobile
You must be really excited.
You must be really excited.
JBell523 - December 14, 2009
He must be really excited.
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Yes Cliff Lee is really good.
Bedard was also really good.
What are we giving up for Cliff Lee, that is very important.
I’m mostly hoping its not Saunders.
ARock - December 14, 2009
Cliff Lee is also healthy
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
He probably has explosive ebola.
Eyebrows - December 14, 2009 via mobile
Bedard had many, many more questions about him than Lee has
And we’re not giving up our entire farm system this time, either.
Jeff Nye - December 14, 2009
I am highly skeptical that Saunders would be included in this
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
Thats a relief.
ARock - December 14, 2009
Aumont however makes a lot of sense.
redwolf75 - December 14, 2009
Yeah, and I wouldn't miss him a whole lot
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
I pretty much stopped taking notice of him once he became a reliever.
Eyeball Kid - December 14, 2009
Preeeeeeeeeecisely
seattlesundevil - December 14, 2009
We have Fields anyway.
Aumont has more potential, but wonkier mechanics.
JY - December 14, 2009
Bedard is to Lee
as Jose Lopez is to Chase Utley.
davidcameron - December 14, 2009
More Venezuelan?
Usually I value your analysis, Dave, but that doesn’t make sense to me. Bedard isn’t Latino
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
And Lopez doesn't get hurt much
tait644 - December 14, 2009
So Erik Bedard is really good then?
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
In all seriousness, not sure that's a fair comparison
since Lopez derives a lot of value from being boringly consistent and playing a lot of games at a decent level, whereas Bedard is awesome when he’s healthy, but isn’t really healthy for enough time to have a huge impact
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
We're getting Chase Utley?!?!?!?
msb - December 14, 2009
Or perhaps Bedard : Lee :: Snelling : Edgar
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
We'll probably get more innings from Lee in this single year than we got from Bedard in 2 years
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
And then some
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Nobody as good as Adam Jones or Chris Tillman
G_ - December 14, 2009
PLAYOFFS!
Robert - December 14, 2009
according to SI
The Mariners are likely to be parting ways with Phillippe Aumont, a talented right-handed pitcher and Canadian native, in the trade, though it’s not yet clear whether he would go to Toronto or Philadelphia. Another name being discussed as possiblye leaving Seattle is Michael Saunders, a speedy outfielder. It appears the Mariners are tying to keep 25-year-old righty Brandon Morrow out of the deal, which is not expected to be finalized on Monday due to its complexity.
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0Zhx6oBSr
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription
Jerikantilles - December 14, 2009
I'm really interested in that jacket
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
I'd much rather have the Tee
gregrabble - December 14, 2009
what, not the SI subscription?
Jerikantilles - December 14, 2009
Without looking anything up, I feel like I'd rather ship off Morrow than Saunders.
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
Absolutely
No question at all.
Jeff Sullivan - December 14, 2009
Kind of a letdown from the Gillies/Ramirez/Aumont rumors, though...
tait644 - December 14, 2009
I'm not really keen on this if Saunders is involved
Morrow and Aumont would be fine.
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Me too.
I’d also rather give Morrow.
We have SIX YEARS of Saunders.
ARock - December 14, 2009
I love IP 9.0 H6 R1 ER0 W0 SO10 HR0 ERA0.00
InSpokane - December 14, 2009
Sucks he doesn't get the win.
Wilder. - December 14, 2009
Who cares about the win. It just a really good outing.
InSpokane - December 14, 2009
I think it's a joke
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
In the Bedard deal, it wouldve been a terrible deal even if we got 2 good seasons from Bedard
Because we gave up too much.
Here we get 1 year of Lee. It really depends on who we are losing.
For now, I’m trusting that Zduriencik isnt screwing us and giving away too much.
6 years of Saunders would be too much, imo.
Morrow/Aumont probably fine.
I’ll trust people like Dave Cameron and Jeff’s analysis of this way more than my own. But personally I dont want to see a move that sacrifices the future for one good year, even if we do get a good year out of it. Sacrificing relatively minor pieces of the future is perfectly ok, those are replacable. We just need to not give away Adam Jones 2.0 for Bedard 2.0.
ARock - December 14, 2009
Saunders is not the player Adam Jones was or is and Bedard is not the pitcher that Lee is.
Goose - December 14, 2009
Saunders is really good
Jones had more value but it’s not as big a gap as people are insinuating
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
In no universe is Cliff Lee Bedard 2.0
gregrabble - December 14, 2009
In no way, shape, or form is Saunders Adam Jones 2.0
Sportszilla - December 14, 2009
Thats good, if we arent paying too much then this is an awesome deal.
ARock - December 14, 2009
WE'RE THE BEST TEAM EVER
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
THAT'S THE SPIRIT
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Stop me I'm suddenly very excited about 2010
Gihyou - December 14, 2009
Me too!
I just dont want to end up feeling a lot less excited about 2011-2012.
ARock - December 14, 2009
Random power bullpen arms aren't really hard to replace
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Yes, thats what I am hoping we are giving up.
ARock - December 14, 2009
It's what Aumont is, and as long as it's something like Aumont, Gillies and Ramirez, this is highway robbery for the M's
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Yes indeed.
That is a deal that is insane.
JY - December 14, 2009
Have you heard anything else about it?
I’m really hoping that these Morrow/Saunders rumors start to die down because I’m getting a bit worried
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
They can have Morrow
I am convinced that this org has mindfucked him into uselessness
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Worst case Morrow is a useful reliever right now, and a legit closer
I’d pretty strongly prefer to hang onto him, but agreed that I’d much rather see him go away than Saunders
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Of course ironically, if Saunders gets traded, Lopez looks a lot safer so...
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
By uselessness I meant a wildly inconsistent 4/5 starter
He can relieve, though I’m not so sure he has the control to be a closer. SOmetimes he just can’t find the zone at all.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Despite popular belief, I have no relevant contacts whatsoever.
They can take Morrow though, and I wouldn’t care that much.
Hands off Saunders unless Holliday is in the bag.
JY - December 14, 2009
Okay, Here's What I Don't Get
So, the M’s have the prospects to satisfy Toronto. Why not just deal with them directly, instead of three-teaming it and bringing in Cliff Lee?
Caveat: In no way am I suggesting that acquiring Cliff Lee is bad. It’s good. It might be better than bringing in Halladay, when you consider payroll and contract extensions and the like. I am not sure.
I’m wondering why the Blue Jays felt the need to complicate things by bringing in a third party.
robbbbbb - December 14, 2009
Halladay would have to waive his no trade to come here..
He wouldnt do that.
seattlesundevil - December 14, 2009
Cause Halladay didn't want to come here.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
I think we're the ones complicating things, not Toronto
we’re not offering an elite prospect like Philly is
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Also what seattlesundevil and Scruffy said
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Roy Hallady would only accept a deal to a few teams
He required an extension, a contender, and a team that trained close to his home in Florida.
arbeck77 - December 14, 2009
Because Halladay apparently wants to sign a long term extension with Philly.
redwolf75 - December 14, 2009
I'm pretty sure that third party is us.
Eyeball Kid - December 14, 2009
They probably
Want a lot more prospects than what the Mariners are giving up in this three team trade. You figure the Phils give up a few prospects to Toronto, Lee to Mariners, Mariners give up a couple prospects to the Phils, some go to Toronto, some stay in Philly.
ungoreatstefan - December 14, 2009
Okay, I get what y'all are saying
And it makes some sense. But why, then, are the Phils spending cash and resources to swap one veteran pitcher for another? You look at raw WAR numbers, and Halladay and Hamels have been equally valuable for the last two years. You might could make an argument for durability, &c, but I’m trying to figure out what Philly’s motivation to make this deal is.
Something doesn’t quite add up, to me. But I’ll take it.
robbbbbb - December 14, 2009
Because they can sign Halladay to an extension and can't sign Lee to one
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Lee won't sign. Halladay is signing.
seattlesundevil - December 14, 2009
Because a certain smart GM has decided to insert himself into the trade of another, dumber GM
and rob that GM blind
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Also, what Graham said
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
This one is better.
seattlesundevil - December 14, 2009
I'm afraid that's what it is
And I love that. God bless our front office, every one.
robbbbbb - December 14, 2009
Yes this is my preferred reason
ARock - December 14, 2009
Ruben Amaro <3 Halladay
They wanted him the whole time… as an M’s fan, I’d just shut up and enjoy another GM being a fanboy like you did when you got Cedeno and Garrett Olsen from the Cubs for Aaron Heilman.
jameslcrockett - December 14, 2009
Man, he is sexy
A rotation of Felix, Lee, Morrow, RSS would be hot. Snell…eh, I could see it, but not my type exactly.
appleshampoo - December 14, 2009
I am going to make a starting rotation calendar....
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Fister is like 8 feet tall.
He would increase the cute quotient more than Snell, but Snell will probably (hopefully) be better if he gets his head on straight.
appleshampoo - December 14, 2009
Snell's a fox
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
Probably Felix, Lee, RRS, Sneel, Fister??
Since we probably lose Morrow here in the trade?
ARock - December 14, 2009
Snell*
ARock - December 14, 2009
Sounds like Morrow is the one guy who is definitely not leaving
which gives us lots of options for the back of the rotation behind Felix and Lee (assuming this gets done)
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
My head is still swimming. I don't even know what to do.
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Snack Cart!
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
I mean, I really.... Felix and Lee?! It's just.... I can't. I'm broken.
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Come up with a snappy name instead of the tired "1-2 punch"
“FelixiLee” which is supposed to sound like “Felicity” is all I have.
PDXTai - December 14, 2009
Lee-lix. Lee-flix.
FLeelix
FeCliff
Clifflix
Robert Lintott - December 14, 2009
Thunder and Lightning
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Shake and Bake!
tootthekazoo - December 14, 2009
Crack open the sizzurp!
EnglishMariner - December 14, 2009
Good suggestion.
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
I hope Cliff Lee loves the clubhouse chemistry enough to really want to return to Seattle after next year
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
Also the amazing defense
gregrabble - December 14, 2009
Actually.... we might be able to extend Lee...
Was reading the ESPN article…
I wonder if the same might apply to us, or if that was an arrangement that was more exclusive to Philly.
JY - December 14, 2009
I read somewhere else that Lee had made it clear he wouldn't give a hometown discount
and wanted market value. I can’t imagine GMZ won’t at least kick the tires a bit, but I’m completely OK with getting one year from Lee and two draft picks if they can’t work out something reasonable.
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Jack plays hardball.
It’s hard to imagine him giving a huge contract if he can avoid it.
More likely, he’ll put an offer on the table, and say it’s a shame if he doesn’t take it, and then walk away from the matter. The rest is up to Lee.
JY - December 14, 2009
Yup, and I like the way he operates
again, marrying yourself to one specific non-Felix or Ichiro player is how contracts like Carlos Silva happen
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Just so everyone knows, Silva is pitching in Venezuela right now
and he fucking sucks.
JY - December 14, 2009
Good thing VWL stats don't mean anything
right? right?
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Not always.
But the LVBP ~= double-A competition.
8.0 IP, 14 H (3 HR), 2/3 K/BB
He fucking sucks.
JY - December 14, 2009
I was kidding anyway.
Winter league stats seem to me to be like the SATs. If you do well it doesn’t mean you’re good. But if you blow…
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Edwin Hurtado is good in the LVBP.
It doesn’t take a whole lot.
JY - December 14, 2009
I'd say doing well doesn't mean much, but doing poorly means you really suck
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Do we want to sign him if he's asking for that much?
He’ll be 32 at the end of this season and I’d imagine the value for him on the market will be inflated.
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
I'm happy to let him walk
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
What would you be willing to extend him at?
4/$55?
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
It's a moot point
He won’t sign any extension I’d be happy with
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Fair enough
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
He will if he gives us the tickles discount!
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
Everyone is so worked up about Cliff Lee's pitching...
I’m not convinced that’s why J-Z wanted him.
Think about it – Gutierrez, Figgins, etc. It’s all about defense. Now imagine Cliff Lee’s gold glove behind the back catches up the center. That’s what this trade is all about. Gold gloves potential in every position.
(or it could just be that Lee is awesome.)
Kunkoh - December 14, 2009
Fox Sports is saying Aumont, Morrow and Saunders
Link here.
krb - December 14, 2009
All that says is that they were among the names in play
gregrabble - December 14, 2009
Which is pretty obvious
gregrabble - December 14, 2009
Nope
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Not really
Just means that there are rumours about them
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Well this would be bad, thankfully, they're only saying those two are in play
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
All Three is Too Much
I could see Aumont + (Morrow or Saunders). That sounds like a fair deal to me.
robbbbbb - December 14, 2009
Don't scare me like that.
Eyeball Kid - December 14, 2009
Sorry about that. Read it a bit quickly, I guess.
And I still haven’t gotten over Bavasi.
krb - December 14, 2009
Boooooo
Read better.
tait644 - December 14, 2009
Hey, let's not be a jerk after she apologized.
CapSea - December 14, 2009
This.
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
+1
SeattleFigginsFan - December 14, 2009
Uh ohs.
Wilder. - December 14, 2009
Cosigned
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
Please don't use chatspeak on LL (+1, lol, ur, go 2, etc.)
just a quick site rule. Thanks!
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
To be fair, we're supposed to refrain from "This." also, so maybe he was trying to use it ironically.
CapSea - December 14, 2009
This is why I went with "All of this" in the OT thread.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
Perhaps I was!
SeattleFigginsFan - December 14, 2009
From Let's Go Tribe
I know how you guys like your memes, so I thought I’d drop this on you. Might get some mileage out of it:
nickjs21 - December 14, 2009
Call me a snob, but
illiteracy != sexy
FlaskInSafeco - December 14, 2009
But he's a master chess player, so...
JY - December 14, 2009
This is a Bedard response level of awesome.
JY - December 14, 2009
That's awesome
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Sooooo, he's good for Charlie work?
edddgar - December 14, 2009
I'm not doing fucking Charlie work.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
I think I'm in love...
I Lick Squirrels - December 14, 2009
I really only care if he can read the catcher's signs.
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
As a Rangers fan
I’m officially worried about the M’s….and I didn’t think it would happen this soon.
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
GMZ laughs in your general direction
deacvision7 - December 14, 2009
You're probably still the better team....for now
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
You think?
I guess it all rests on the health of Harden and Hamilton (assuming he remembers how to hit)
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
You're the better team.
Check out our lineup. Seriously, that’s a sad sad offense. We need to sign one and a half above average bats to be on the low end of decent.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
We're already on the high end of decent
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Maybe I'm underestimating Guti's and Lopez's projection but
Ichiro
Figgins
Lopez
Griffey?
Gutierrez
Carp?
Saunders
Johnson/Moore
Wilson
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
I wouldn't count on Griffey
being a regular part of the line up. He should be just a bench player/designed tickler.
Fear - December 14, 2009
And defensively from those players at their expected positions
Great
Great
Average
N/A
Awesome
Below Average
Great
?
Awesome
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
I was thinking offense only, but you're right.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
Sounds like we ought to get rid of the average defensive player
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
I wish that dumb bitch Last Fan of Jose Lopez hadn't gotten himself banned
he’d be on my side, I think
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
I've attached myself to a new second baseman!
SeattleFigginsFan - December 14, 2009
But Figgins plays third!
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Not for long
SeattleFigginsFan - December 14, 2009
Figgins is likelier to be good than great, but thats nitpicking.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
He's probably in the same 5 < x < 10 range as Ichiro
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Maybe that's already decent territory
but I’d like to see at least a LaRoche type bat added at 1B and someone with knees for DH before I call it decent. Holliday and or Johnson make me a happy camper.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
As a team, not as an offence
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Oh yes yes, of course. I was thinking run scoring only.
No as it is we’re an average team. Maybe a tad better (as it is assumes Lee). Adding one bat makes us good. Adding one bat plus Holliday makes us an unequivocal division favorite, I think.
Bearskin Rugburn - December 14, 2009
I agree
That your lineup is bad, but if you watched many Rangers games last year our lineup wasn’t much better. Okay, maybe it was, but hardly a lineup that was consistent. What was the stretch in September….like 4 games with 1 run scored?
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
Yeah, it was horrendous last year
sprite - December 14, 2009
I know....
Very painful to watch.
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
Well, Neftali Feliz will still destroy us all.
I Lick Squirrels - December 14, 2009
Assuming they don't find a way to trade him first...
Fear - December 14, 2009
JD wouldn't do that
I love that guy.
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
Until Z acquires him for Lopez and Morrow.
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
Felix/Lee is damn good, no doubt
but I don’t fear the M’s offense. Now if they get Lee and Holliday or Bay? Different story.
sprite - December 14, 2009
No one will fear our offense.
They will however wonder how they lost when we walk/steal/single/bunt our way to victory.
Fear - December 14, 2009
CHONE!
royalcurve - December 14, 2009
Figgins is perfect for your park
I fear him
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
We'll have a Pythag expectation of 160-2 when we win every game 1-0 except the two times we lose 2-1
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Defensively destroying your opponents is like death from a thousand cuts.
Kermit. - December 14, 2009
Nobody needs to fear our line-up for us to out score them.
edddgar - December 14, 2009
Assuming the M's resign Lee at the end of the season
what’s the highest amount that you could look that they resigned him for without dry heaving?
I say 5 years/$70MM.
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
There's not contract he signs that is good
Lackey just got 5/85. Lee’s going to ask for something like 5/120
arbeck77 - December 14, 2009
Maybe he'll be good but only make 15 starts
And you can get him at a discount.
Drew062682 - December 14, 2009
And he'd be laughed out the office
because that’s a million more than the AAV of Sabathia’s deal, and while Lee’s good, he ain’t Sabathia, the Seattle ain’t the Yankees, and neither of Boston or New York needs a starter next year.
craig3410 - December 14, 2009
He's asking for Sabathia's AAV on a shorter contract
Graham MacAree - December 14, 2009
Well that's not happening from us
I hope
Gihyou - December 14, 2009
Lee was wanting 23M per from Philly....
laxtonto - December 14, 2009
I really want Nick Johnson
Just to complete the annoyance factor. We’d also probably see more pitches than any team in baseball if that were to happen.
coreyjro - December 14, 2009
We still have Lopez and Ichiro
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
We can change this.
There’s some team out there who’d love Lopez’s power.
redwolf75 - December 14, 2009
No
seattlebruin - December 14, 2009
Yeah, but they'll be fouling off ball four...
coreyjro - December 14, 2009
But Ichiro is annoying because he hits everything.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
Lopez is just annoying to us for swinging at shit.
Scruffy Lefty - December 14, 2009
So, if I'm getting this correctly...
We (may) lose Aumont + 2, but would be getting back, at worst case, a first rounder and sandwich pick as compensation for his being a type A. That’s not mentioning if GMZ decides to flip him at the deadline. I don’t see this being us giving up too much at all considering what we’ll get back later and LEE!
Brian Floyd - December 14, 2009
"at worst case . . ."
Actually, we’re not guaranteed a first-round pick as compensation, since the first 15 picks in the draft are protected. Also, a team could sign more than one Type A free agent, as the Yankees did last offseason. The Blue Jays had to settle for the Yankees’ third-round pick as compensation for losing A.J. Burnett, because the Yankees had to give their first two picks to the previous employers of Mark Teixeira and CC Sabathia.
Teej - December 14, 2009
Aumont + Saunders/Morrow + Gillies?
I’m cool with that for Rent-A-Lee (Type A).
If Saunders is gone… figure the M’s plan to stretch the pocketbook for Branyan-or-Johnson and one of Bay/Holliday. They theoretically have $17-19MM left to spend after extending Felix and giving raises… some backloading and some reaching deep in a bad-economy-means-decent-longterm-deals offseason might just yield contracts we’ll still be happy with in 3-4 years.
KingCorran - December 14, 2009
Is anyone on here a doctor?
Because my Zduriection has lasted more than four hours.
I Lick Squirrels - December 14, 2009
Wait, seriously?
Poochie - December 14, 2009
Yeah he's actually been really good for the last two years
SeattleFigginsFan - December 14, 2009
No seriously we're trading for Cliff Lee
Poochie - December 14, 2009
I think SeattleFigginsFan was messing with you
Dewey N - December 14, 2009
Damn I thought that guy was legit
OlSalty - December 14, 2009
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