Lookout Landing

I'm wondering how Dave is going to respond.

That is, after USSM is back from the inevitable FA signing crash.

He said Figgins made a lot of sense at 4/40. At 4/36, boy howdy.

He posted that he was happy with it at 4/36

In my defense, I had already starting writing the below comment before you posted this =)

This is how Dave

will respond.

Jed MC - December 4, 2009 reply

Shall I work the fill-in-the-blank for Dave Cameron now?

“Chone Figgins signed with the Mariners today for a slightly below market value contract over four years. While this costs us our first round draft selection (#18 overall), the value of that pick is more than made up with the savings on Figgins. Figgins projects to be a 3-4 win player over the first two years of the deal, and likely is getting less than market value because a large part of his value comes on defense. Good work by GMZ to target and sign an undervalued asset at a fair, below-market price”

I would rec this if mobiLLe didn't suck.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

I got you covered.

Fear - December 4, 2009 reply

Annnnnnd we're green.

Heh, I got most of it right!

Great, now I'm going to need to know how to say it!

Is it Sean or Ch-(as in cheesburger)-Own?

Sean

I will never call him Shawn.

It always bugged me when we played the Angels that his name was spelled wrong.

Now it can bug the OTHER TEAMS!

Forget pronouncing it right

I like pronouncing names phonetically, regardless of how they’re actually supposed to be spelled, and Chone Figgins has always been a fun one for that. Jaquizz Rodgers from Oregon State is also great material.

You mean it isn't pronounced Seen Bean?

Or the author of Beowulf, Seemus Heaney.

But Jacquizz Rodgers name is pronounced EXACTLY like it's spelled...

jah-quiz rod-jers

Jack-quiz?

Eh, probably closer to that

Whizz

Jack-whizz.

You're more literal than I am

I like Jah-qui-zee-zee, Jack-weez, Jock-whizz, etc. There’s a lot of good material there for someone a few beers in and slightly bored.

Here's a handy mnemonic device:

Cheech

Chone

Does this mean we're re-signing Jeff Weaver?

If it was supposed to be pronouced Sean/Shawn, Shaun, it would be spelled that way.

There’s plenty of acceptable ways to spell that name. Chone is not one of them. I refuse to pronounce it any way but Chone.

That's just downright enlightened.

I will also now pronounce our right fielders' name as eye-cheer-OH!

Ken Griffey Ger.

Ichiro is a Japanese name, and as such should be given the proper Japanese pronunciation.

Chone is American, and as such has no excuse for such a pronunciation.

I just don't understand the rationale - his parents named him and spelled his name differently

since a name is a large part of what makes us individual people, why is it wrong to have your name spelled differently than other people who pronounce in the same way? It shows individuality and creativity by the parents, and isn’t that something we should promote more of?

Or it shows that they're totally illiterate

As someone whose name has been frequently mispronounced throughout my life

I still say call the fucker CHONE

It shows retardation by the parents.

If they wanted to name him Sean or one of its variants, spell it that way. His name is Chone.

Can't wait until there is a DaChone or LeChone.

nathaniel dawson - December 4, 2009 reply

You have your wish, sir

Desmond DeChone Figgins

My fuck.

I didn’t realize this.

Why wouldn’t he go with the totally badass name Desmond?

Chone is a variant

So you get a perfect score in the

White-off challenge?

Jed MC - December 4, 2009 reply

He didn't pick his name.

Aaron Campeau - December 4, 2009 reply

Woah, I'm tired.

First comma should be another /

DO IT!!!!!

Wooooooooooo!

I like it a lot

Hopefully we can sign Harden too.

Two aces, two Ichiros.

Chone Figgins lead the league in walks last year!

Almost 5 times as many as Betancourt!

This is something that just boggles the mind

how can a guy with a <.100 ISO post such a walk rate? Insane. Even if it comes down to career norms, its still a bit hard to believe.

Reggie Willits.

Aybar and Izturis for me.

Whoops, this was supposed to be in response to "most annoying Angel."

Why Izturis?

Angels baseball.

And he walks too much for a slap hitter.

YOU WILL FEEL MY WRATH FOR BESMIRCHING EYEBROWS.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Figgins was in my opinion the most annoying Angel.

That’ll make him by definition one of my favorite Mariners if we sign him.

Hell yes!

So we have ~$15 million to play with on a starter and one or two 1B/DH types?

Woohoo!

lailaihei - December 4, 2009 reply

It depends on how the contract is structured

For example if they pay out 7, 9, 9, 11 they we have a bit more flexibility this year. That’s the nice thing about backloading contracts.

But hurts us in terms of flexibility in the future

yeah, it could be a cross-that-bridge-when-we-get-there thing, but I’d rather have a defined situation now and flexibility in the future than flexibility now and a potential albatross down the road

nathaniel dawson - December 4, 2009 reply

Depends on what their budget is this year

I really, really like this

Always been a fan of Figgin’s skills, but only recently have I been able to identify their actual value. I don’t think we’ll see a 6 win season, but I think 3-4 wins will be a safe bet for at least the first 2 years. Now that he has settled in at third, he is establishing himself as quite the defender, might not quite be Beltre status, but a Figgins/Wilson left side is a black hole.

edddgar - December 4, 2009 reply

Even if he's + 5 < x < 15, that's still really outstanding

I can’t possibly hope he’ll throw up another couple +18-20 seasons with .380 wOBAs, but I would be perfectly content with a .355 wOBA and +5 defense – that’s like a 4-4.5 WAR player right there

Potentially fills a leadoff hitter need for when/if Ichiro declines as well

To the bullpen!

Ichiro won't decline

Duh. When our favorite android begins to need spare parts, the Romulans will take him back for a refub in the still of a warm June night.

Well, this is going to take some getting used to

Corco - December 4, 2009 reply

I'm with you.

For sure

Although I am pretty sure that most of my dislike of him was simply because of the uniform he was wearing

I hate his face.

I'll feel alot better about this if we trade Lopez for something that makes up for the loss of our first round draft pick.

I'll feel a lot better about this when a killer whale eats your nuts

Yeah me too, I think.

I am starting to hope a killer whale eats the nuts off of the killer whale eats your nuts meme.

I am using this meme as long as the trade Jose Lopez trade bandwagon exists

But thank you for implying that my meme is at least male in some way =/

It isn't a bandwagon though. It makes good sense.

Sec 108 - December 4, 2009 reply

I'm only on that bandwagon if Zduriencik finds better value.

But I do want to see Lopez moved down in the lineup. He shouldn’t be batting 3rd.

This I can objectively agree with

he’s a pretty prototypical #6 guy – not great OBP, but some pop and handle the bat decently well.

If by "handle" the bat, you mean swinging and fouling off pitches four feet out of the strike zone

then yes, yes he can!

Hopefully that means it will only last for another week or so.

I was hoping for a concentration camp analogy meme to come from that

Like moving Lopez would be the Treblinka of terrible trades.

But, it was not to be :(

.

I may be in the minority here but...

I’m not at all excited about this! The first time he doesn’t make the bare handed play on the slow roller, I’m going to let him have it!

RED29 - December 4, 2009 reply

Maybe he'll play second!

Maybe =(

Oh Red, you wouldn't be happy about anyone who would replace Beltre! Not even Evan Longoria!

He would with Eva!

If you love it, set it free

And if it's meant to be, he won't sign with the Angels.

You can love them both!

It’s possible!

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Maybe we can teach him to appeal to first

I think I would puke.

I agree.

Fuck Chone. There’s no way he could ever stay in a game with a torn testicle.

Well, it's a good thing he won't be asked to.

This move would have been a lot more fun if this was Z's first move last offseason.

Figgins is one of my favorite non mariners.

Kirk - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Excpet he's a Mariner now.

Kirk - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Figgins is also a type A free agent

“Waves goodbye to #17 pick as it floats to the Angels”

18th.

Still a downer giving up such a high pick to a division rival

That pick is nothing special...

Last time we picked that high, we wound up with Josh Fields. Woo-friggin-hoo! Plus assuming Beltre rejects arb, we still get a supplemental rounder, which is only a few slots below anyway.

basebliman - December 4, 2009 reply

I wouldn't take that to mean the #18 pick sucks.

waldo rojas - December 4, 2009 reply

While I agree that the pick isn't all that much to get worked out about,

you can’t justify losing the pick by getting the pick for Beltre. We’d have Beltre’s pick either way.

Replacing the #18 pick with Figgins is a pretty good swap, I'd say.

basebliman - December 4, 2009 reply

Unless we had signed Beltre

And if we didn’t we probably wouldn’t have found production equal to either of them elsewhere.

Just because we did something stupid with a mid-first rounder last time doesn't mean that an entirely different group of people will do something stupid with it this time

nathaniel dawson - December 5, 2009 reply

It was Zduriencik

that signed Fields, you know.

"That pick is nothing special... Last time we picked that high, we wound up with Josh Fields."

it was Bavasi and Fontaine who picked Fields, you know

seattlebruin - December 6, 2009 reply

Figgins is worth it

Zduriencik has made a career off of intelligent draft picks, but he definitely sold his case that picking up a known commodity as opposed to what we get at 18, who has a good chance of falling flat on their face.

I think the quantity of our early picks last season made this pick even more expendable. The chances of picking up the quality that Figgins will produce during the 4 year contract with the 18th pick are extremely slim. That’s not to mean there won’t be quality players available at 18, but Figgins is worth forfeiting the chance to reap those benefits.

edddgar - December 4, 2009 reply

Ugh, and Gregg Zaun is a Brewer

from an irrational fan perspective, today has been a horrible day for me

Corco - December 4, 2009 reply

But we are getting better in the "slightly askew cap" department!

That's not a consolation

Corco - December 4, 2009 reply

Isn't it?

It is indeed a sad day for xenophobes.

So... WOOOHOOO CHONE FIGGINS BABY

Not so fast says Rotoworld

Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports heard from an Angels source that Chone Figgins is still available and the Halos are “still hanging around.”
SI.com’s Jon Heyman reports that the Mariners are in the lead, but bidding is still taking place. Figgins is reportedly asking for $36 million over four years; the M’s have offered $32 million for four years and the Angels are at $24 million for three years.

32 for 4? Even better.

He's going to be paying the M's to play at this rate.

If he can stay around that rate, wow.

Those are wildly different offers

Not exactly “hanging around” when you’re offering a year less

Haha I was thinking the same exact thing.

Zwakamatsu - December 4, 2009 reply

Same price per years, though.

They could easily extend their offer out another season.

That's not really that easy of a thing to do

Another year and another 8mil is a lot to add to an offer.

Fuck yeah

if were in the lead with a 4/32 offer then great. I mean, its not like we’re getting Chipper Jones or anything but he’d fill a big need for a few years and can move when someone else comes along. Sweet.

The positional flexibility is one of the things that sells me on it.

There’s no guarantee that a number of our aspiring infielders and outfielders will pan out, but the idea of having a guy who could move quite easily in the event they do and still provide solid production is rather exciting.

If Bill Hall can get any of his swing back Wakamatsu is going to have a ball next year filling out lineup cards.

Pick from a hat!

Random lineup generator.

COMPUTER SAYS:

ROB JOHNSON : CENTER FIELD

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Griffey for short

I hope it plays a MIDI price is right loser song too when it does that

Heyman now saying it's very close

Well that makes me think it's far

Was about to say

Who’s the idiot: Heyman for being an idiot, or me for consistently reading the idiot’s work?

Haha, yeah, but when all these guys are saying it's close, you have to feel pretty good

I'm embarrassed

that Heyman and I share the same alma mater.

Dave Clapper - December 4, 2009 reply

Its still not totally clear to me why we'd rather have a 4 yr deal with FIggins compared to a shorter term deal

with Beltre.

Edgar for Pres - December 4, 2009 reply

Beltre would be more expensive

And Beltre isn't going to sign a short-term deal.

If he is willing, he would accept arbitration and try to negotiate out two or three years before the hearing.

Couldn't have said it any better

even if we get him, it would be three years of Beltre for the price of four years of Figgins, who is a better fit for the team anyway

Beltre probably doesn't want to stay and he wants at least 3 years too

They are about equally valuable

but the way Chone gets his value fits better into the team Zduriencik is trying to build, or so it seems.

For 4/36, I'm feeling somewhat decent about this

I’d like some home runs on our roster, though. Stat.

Runs is runs

But it's a little easier to score when you can hit the ball over the fence

Sure, but it's not like Zimmerman is on the market

Not to mention, a little diversity helps.

Chone adds diversity

HA!

Without fireworks, home runs have lost their appeal over the years.

(increased understanding of advanced metrics have helped, too)

But.. but...

Funk blasts?

xero3k - December 4, 2009 reply

Duh, clearly the answer is to bring back Ritchie Sexson

Richie.

Sorry, that one always drives me crazy.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

mea culpa

But at least he’s not on the team :)

Yeah, I'm not even sure how that mistake is made so often

Ritchie Sexon.

Mariner John - December 4, 2009 reply

Ugh.

I always preferred to see it as "Ritchie Sexton"

Hearing it pronounced as Sexton was also annoying.

Mariner John - December 4, 2009 reply

.

[helmetthrowing.gif]

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

.

ralphie81 - December 4, 2009 reply

I'm not speaking of home runs directly

Merely the threat of them will do at this point.

Yay!

Even though Figgins is everything I hate about the Angels rolled into one player. I hope he stays the annoying little pest that he’s always been.

MFAN - December 4, 2009 reply

He walks, though.

That’s not really a stereotypical Angels thing.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Is it because he's short?

how the hell does he walk that much? I don’t get it.

Magic!

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Fouls off about 80 strikes per at bat.

Crystal for DH - December 4, 2009 reply

This needs to hurry up and become official already.

GOD I KNOW

I’m not getting anything done at work. This is the first interesting baseball thing to happen this winter.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

You werent excited for the Scutaro signing?

Ugh, watching Twitter for #mariners news...

is almost as painful as reading the comments at the Seattle Times.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/mariners-on-verge-of-signing-chone-figgins.html#comments

heyman says the M's are very close to signing him

very smart move by the M’s if this thing gets done

And now Heyman is reporting 4/$35.

BrianL - December 4, 2009 reply

Yes yes yes. keep dropping!

4/35 according to Heyman

Says Figgins moved closer towards our 32 number

so its a done deal?

Sounds like he confirmed it without confirming it

Close but not final, I guess

.

phillies are stupid

for an extra 3M a season they couldve had a much better player in Figgins

Two million!!!

2 million reasons why the M's are smarter than the Phillies

Two fewer years.

Aaron Campeau - December 4, 2009 reply

Anybody got a list of Twitter feeds to follow for more updates?

I have the local beat reporters that I follow, but I don’t have many of the national guys

Yes

SI_JonHeyman, Ken_Rosenthal

Is it just me or does anyone else have mixed feelings about a 4 year deal?

Being a fan of a team who has been burned so many times by long term contracts I am somewhat gunshy of this, rational or not.

At 9 a year, he should cover the value of his contract pretty easily barring injury.

Good free agents wont sign short term deals, so be happy that the price is reasonable (favorable, even)

I'm still hoping the last year is a PA based vesting option

which justifies going nearly 1M a year more than the Angels.

Why do we need to justify it?

It's a good contract

Basically what Aron said

think of it as a three-year deal in terms of value added, with a decent shot at simply freerolling the fourth year if he adds eight-nine wins in the first three

The final year or two he may not live up to the contract, but he won't be a Silva like

non-factor. Maybe he’ll only be 6 million dollar player in 2012 or 2013, but it’s not like this deal with hurt the franchise from being successful down the road

Well, it might be a pain if he gets hurt or whatever

nathaniel dawson - December 4, 2009 reply

Usually, salary inflation for free agents somewhat balances out declining play

When DeChone Figgins is in the 4th year of his deal, free agents will likely be getting more, maybe $5 to 5.5 MM per win. That has the effect of making him more affordable in the future.

The last time we signed someone to this contract it was Jarrod Washburn

Chone Figgins is much better than Jarrod Washburn

Since I didn't know what the fuck I was talking about when we signed Jarrod Washburn

what kind of player did he project as? 2 WAR? Less?

He projected as a winner with World Series experience, a ring, and some serious veteran determination.

Yes, Washburn was predictibly a 2 WAR player

So we gave 10 mil per year to a league average player. This time we’re giving 10 mil per year to a better than leage average player, potentially significantly better.

I thought he was around average at the time

If I had the tools then that I did now I would have revised that down a win

So you would have guessed we were paying $10M/win when it was closer to $3.9M/win on the market at the time

oh Bill Bavasi, I don’t miss you

Maybe that should have been 1.5 WAR

That was his average over the three years before he signed with us

Any which way it was a sucktastic deal

This one would not be.

So, Beltre goes to the Angels, hangs around the magical Bobby Abreu, in that ball park, and strats hitting again?

So crabby I can't type.

Or Beltre goes to the Giants and Glaus or someone goes to the Angels

Please.

Sure!

Spiezio comeback tour

The player who should not be named

Player A

eponymous_coward - December 4, 2009 reply

.

I kinda want him to go to the Angels

Poochie - December 4, 2009 reply

I kinda want you to get surprised sexed by King Kong

Aaron Campeau - December 5, 2009 reply

I'm still holding out hope that Beltre stays and they put Figgins at Second.

Beltre on the 1 year arb deal would be too expensive.

I am hoping Chone plays 3 and we trade Lopez for value and get another 2nd baseman.

I get that, but it makes me sad.

So I guess Tui is fucked, then?

He's just being part of the family tradition

Promising amatuer careers followed by hilarious professional failures?

Also, he needs to play for the A's.

Tui can go get fucked for not following in his brother's legacy while being one of the major reasons why the UW program went down the shitter.

Yeah, screw him for following his dreams

I think one of the major reasons UW football went down the shitter is because they sucked at a lot of other positions too.

BrettJMiller - December 4, 2009 reply

Like Head Coach

fuck

Is it a hilarious professional failure if you never actually get more than about 4 starts?

If you were taken in the second round of the draft as the QB of the future, yes

Wouldnt that be a fail on the Raiders

Not if Tui sucked and gave them no choice

Even my massive boner for him didn't think he would go before the late 3rd round.

Well, the Raiders also picked Darrius Heyward-Bey 7th

Sebastian Janikowsi 16th overall, and caused me for the first time ever in the first two round of the NFL draft to honestly say “I have never heard of this player before right now”

Jamarcus Russell 1st overall.

I forgot that they picked a kicker in the 1st round.

Thatw as much worse than Russell or Heyward-Bey.

Janikowski was a once and a lifetime kicker!

Meh, trade him.

Not necessarily

If we move Lopez I imagine that Tui will be our 2B next year.

Are we really that high on Tui's ability to make the transition to second in just one year?

in the catastrophic event that Lopez is moved, I like the idea of getting a stop-gap FA 2B more than Tui, I think.

My guess

Would be Tui plays 3rd, while Chone Figgins plays 2nd.

zeke5123 - December 4, 2009 reply

It doesn't make much sense to move a guy who has learned to be a very good 3b off of third,

especially in favor of someone who hasn’t proven to be great either way.

eponymous_coward - December 4, 2009 reply

Hannhan/Hall

Plus you see who this year’s Adam Kennedy is.

Oh yeah, forgot about Hannahan

But kind of like having him around as utility/insurance guy

but I guess we have Bill Hall for that too

eponymous_coward - December 4, 2009 reply

Well, if this leaves us with ~15 million...

You’re in pretty good shape, since what you’d need at that point is C depth, the #1 and a couple of hitters for 1B/DH. If you’re lucky, you find this year’s Branyan (since Branyan won’t be the deal he was last year).

I have a somewhat irrational desire to sign Mike Cameron, though. Because I think an OF defense with 3 CFs (Saunders as the 4th backing up) would be pretty neat. You’d probably have to play “wheel of DH”, though (rotate position players through the DH position to give them days off), and that’s not going to work with Griffey!!! on the roster.

Better then Lopez.

Figgins would be the #2 hitter, no?

JBell523 - December 4, 2009 reply

Ichiro, Figgins, Guti

1, 2, 3 punch!

An average of all projection systems has Felix giving up 7.1 less bullshit hits this year

Fett42 - December 4, 2009 reply

...Plus there's Figgins' defense too!

Fett42 - December 4, 2009 reply

Bad news, guys.

Maybe this wasn’t such a great pick-up after all. Jason Churchill is saying on his blog that Figgins isn’t even worth 4/$30M. Sorry.

katal - December 4, 2009 reply

DAMNIT. WHY GMZ WHYYYYYYYYY

Well gosh, that settles it....

Next thing you know, Pedro Calderon is going to be telling us that Chone Figgins OBP and defense are overrated and he's just the black WFB

Oh, he already has.

Here you go

linky

Uh

this one is truly special… why does Pedro think that Chone is coming in to play second base?

Because Lopez is as good as gone!

Because nobody will want to sign Beltre so he'll accept arbitration and come back from $12M

Everyone knows that.

Oh Jason.

You came so far at one point. ESPN has retarded your learning.

ABORT ABORT

Churchill hasn't liked a lot of what Zduriencik has done.

Which I don't get.

Wait what....

I just checked the thread.

By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-04-2009 14:12:59
10-11 isn’t my concern… he’ll be worth the money, most likely, during that two-year span.

It’s years three and four, when he’s 34 and 35 that I’m worried about.

But the M’s are better today than yesterday. Right now, they have the second-best roster in the AL West behind Texas.

I think its just important for everybody to remember

that there aren’t many 35 yr old players who are worth paying $9 million a year. There are even less that have never shown any power throughout their career.

Edgar for Pres - December 4, 2009 reply

There aren't many league average 35 year olds?

So I checked

and last year there were only 19 hitters born in 1975 or earlier who had a WAR of 2 or higher. There were only 11 that were born in 1974 or earlier. I don’t think that is very many.

Out of those 19 hitters, only 6 of them have ISO under .150 and none of them have ISO under .100.

I just think a lot of things for Chone have to keep going right for him to stay a league average player as he ages. I’m not saying its a horrible deal because it isn’t that large of a deal and he does have a lot of flexibility to fit in and fill any holes our team might have in the future. I’d probably say its a fair deal and is giving the M’s good but definitely not great value for their money.

Edgar for Pres - December 4, 2009 reply

God that Ichiro sucks

if we were paying him $3M/year, it would be worth it though

Jason's initial response to most deals is that he hates it, the player involved in overrated, the money

and terms isn’t right. Then after a couple days, he posts something like he did above. Where it’s like “Yeah, the deal isn’t so bad afterall”

And in fairness, his whole deal seems to be that the M's aren't contenders in 2010, therefore

they should be doing 1 year deals and avoid paying out significant money until they are truly positioned to win

That's because he is an idiot

Poochie - December 4, 2009 reply

Well it sounds like Churchill doesn't know what the fuck that he is talking about and is making shit up as he goes along.

Where's that surprised face

Who the hell is Jason Churchill?

That’s not a question.

www.prospectinsider.com

It sure looks like question, what with that strange bit of punctuation at the end.

I re-read and now I'm confused.

Exclamation-point yoga

Judging by his comments about Figgins

He’s an incredibly angry little man.

Jeff Nye - December 4, 2009 reply

From @shannondrayer

“Figgins deal all but done-most likely will not be announced today however.”

Ok everyone, back to work.

Eyebrows - December 4, 2009 via mobile reply

Fuck work more baseball

No.

I had to come home to wait for the glazier (90 minutes late) so I have nothing better to do.