We need Johnson, good reasonable cost bat. We have replacement level+ backup at the position if he gets hurt.
Would be nice to add a ~league average DH (2 wins), and use Griffey as a PH.
Harden would be great too, like Johnson we easily have slightly above replacement level arms to fill in if he misses some time, but we need the upside potential.
Mike Cameron would be great too for a year, if we can afford him. Granderson is gone and we dont want Bay, so probably Saunders will be the left fielder. Cameron is about the only one left that I would be happy to see us get at that position.
Mike Carp can DH in the same sense that Griffey can, or Loafie can play 1B.
Yes, you CAN do this. No, you SHOULDN’T do this if you can avoid it. Carp’s not that good a hitter.
FWIW, Bill James projects Griffey and Carp to be ~.330 wOBA hitters (Carp, .331, Griffey, .328), and I think James’s system is likely overprojecting their performance (as it does for a lot of players)- but the point is it calls them out as being roughly equivalent. We should be trying to do better than have a replacement-level DH. Carp’s fine as a backup plan, but that’s it, especially given that the Designated Hugger is going to be on the roster anyway.
I think that is a blatant pessimistic projection, which is acceptable for a young prospect.
But Carp can hit. Maybe not for power, but he posted .391 wOBA in Double-AA and .364 wOBA in Triple-A (.388 wOBA during his short time in the majors).
And hitting isn’t what is intriguing about Carp, it’s his ability to get on base. The guy is an on-base machine and it makes him much more valuable than Griffey at DH. If Carp can develop a little bit of power, he can be a left-handed version of Edgar Martinez without the batting average.
Edgar has a career that’s very, very unusual as MLB ones go. Almost nobody (OK, maybe guys like Jose Cruz Sr. and Minnie Minoso) has their peaks in their 30’s.
I think Carp is in the Paul Sorrento/Adam LaRoche/Brad Fullmer mode of guys who can hit some and deserve MLB time, but aren’t anything special, and his AAA numbers don’t scream “OMG promote this guy now”.
Unless a player is a top-50 hitter in baseball history, they are a horrible comparison to Edgar Martinez.
What I was trying to get at is that Carp has a similar skill set to Edgar. Carp will have to develop a bit more power and will fall short in batting average, but he will get on base 40% of the time and he can hit all over the field (e.g. not a dead pull hitter like the players you mentioned above).
Carp is going to surprise people. He won’t have the career Edgar had, but he will be a guy we can count on to produce at DH every year— unlike the revolving door of ineptitude we have had the last five seasons. Carp is a better option than Griffey at this point.
I don't think it is unreasonable considering the numbers he has put up the last couple of seasons.
2008 AA – .403 OBP in 566 PA
2009 AAA – .372 OBP in 490 PA
2009 ML – .415 OBP in 65 PA (yes, extremely limited sample size)
Nobody is going to accurately project what Carp can do in the majors, but he is only 23-years old and shown he has the ability to get on base in the high minors. If he can improve his zone contact percentage 5-10%, he will likely hit for a better average to go along with his high walk rate.
I doubt we’ll see much of Carp in 2010, but if he can develop some power in Triple-A this year, I think we’ll see Carp at 1B or DH full-time beginning in 2011.
Look, I’m not saying Carp is going to be a world-beater hitter. However, he has the skill set to be an above-average player on offense who could be a mainstay in the lineup.
It's not that I disagree that he has the potential to be above average
(Though that would take a bit of a step up on his part)
But .400 OBP is well above “above average” and seems wildly optimistic to me. You kind of have to throw out those MLB numbers until he gets more PA’s, and his AAA numbers were pretty far from .400 and should be expected to go down somewhat in transition to the majors.
I always have had a small warm spot in my heart for Chone because of MVP Baseball.
I don’t remember if it was the ‘04 or ’05 incarnation, but I loved that game to death (as I know some of you did too). My friends and I would always do fantasy drafts and usually we’d end up taking Chone because his overall rating was horrible, but all his skills were legit and he could fill in as a starter at any position you failed to take until Round 16 or so.
Figgins gets a $2 million signing bonus and salaries of $8 million next year, $9 million each in 2011 and 2012 and $8 million in 2013. The $9 million option for 2014 becomes guaranteed if he has 600 plate appearances in 2013.
Safe to say the vesting option isn’t going to hurt us much. If Figgins is bad, it seems pretty unlikely he’ll get 600 PAs.
I'm getting ready for Flo Rida's next Mariner song "You Can By My Chone."
A vesting option that is equal to his yearly salary and requires essentially a full season of play to vest is just excellent. I can’t see anything bad about this deal. This has put me in a great mood. Bring on tomorrow!
Or we could stop naming every infielder ever to play for the Mariners and assume it’s Beltre since he’s the only recent infielder who would cause Figgins to move to 2nd.
I wish they would have used wOBA rather than OPS+ to justify their claim, as a lot of Figgins production is with his legs, not the bat. There is also no reference to fielding or his versatility.
That would be a nifty trick since Guillen is on the Tigers.
Also, I think we’ve got this covered in one of the rumor posts in the FanShot section. Also, this. I definitely agree he’d be nice if we could get rid of Silva in the process.
Welcome Chone!
I officially don’t hate you anymore.
Floyd Gondoli - December 8, 2009
I'm cautiously excited.
Teej - December 8, 2009
Woo
OlSalty - December 8, 2009
I'm balls deep in excitement.
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
Marvelous!
royalcurve - December 8, 2009
Chone is ground balls and soft liners in excitement.
But the amount of overall excitement is still the same.
CapSea - December 8, 2009
wExcitement
CapSea - December 8, 2009
Since we've pretty much assumed it was happening since Friday it seems a little anti-climactic
Still, hooray and huzzah and all that.
Gihyou - December 8, 2009
How long tell the first
“Beltre would have had that” post?
Fear - December 8, 2009
It'll happen at approximately 1:58pm on Dec. 8, 2009.
JLProck - December 8, 2009
And welcome to Chone.
You’ll never be Adrian Beltre in my heart, but you’re still a welcome addition to this team. Keep up the defense, alright?
JLProck - December 8, 2009
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Dewey N - December 8, 2009
;)
royalcurve - December 8, 2009
Time to get a new jersey!
Dewey N - December 8, 2009
Exactamundo.
royalcurve - December 8, 2009
Anyone know what number he'll be wearing?
Dewey N - December 8, 2009
I'm putting my money on 6
Flip 9 around on the other side of the rivalry.
njd.aitken - December 8, 2009
Has anyone had 6 since Dan Wilson?
I can’t remember…
Mikky - December 8, 2009
Woodward
It is my favorite number and it slightly perturbed me.
Interceptor - December 8, 2009
Guillen, J
Corco - December 8, 2009
Way to wait 4 days...
ARock - December 8, 2009
Drayer, quoting Z:
Teej - December 8, 2009
Best news ever.
Terminator X - December 8, 2009
I would rec it a million times if I could.
Terminator X - December 8, 2009
Hey now.
Keep it in your pants until something gets done.
Pebohead - December 8, 2009
Deal with it.
Terminator X - December 8, 2009
Don't tease me so
abender20 - December 8, 2009
This would lead to me having a happygasm if it were to manifest
Trying to not get my hopes up :(
OlSalty - December 8, 2009
.
lemonverbena - December 8, 2009
Fuck Jeff Cirillo.
JLProck - December 8, 2009
`
BrianL - December 8, 2009
,
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
He'd do the same to your sister if he had the means and equipment.
Mariner John - December 8, 2009
Did anyone else know he's currently the color guy for the Brewers?
BrianL - December 8, 2009
Yes.
kentcheesehead - December 8, 2009
Cedeno???
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
Rec'd for thinking like I think
Kirsten Schlewitz - December 8, 2009
After all, Ronny is languishing in P'burgh, what with them going out to get Bobby Crosby to "push him"
msb - December 8, 2009
Bloomquist!
Angels baseball! You gotta love these guys!
sooper jeenyus - December 8, 2009
It's going to take a lot to get Yuni out of KC.
waldo rojas - December 8, 2009
Please happen
gregrabble - December 8, 2009
Seriously, Beltre-Wilson-Figgins? Death to Infield Things.
lemonverbena - December 8, 2009
I think Alex Rodriguez probably costs too much, and Omar Vizquel can't swing a bat anymore.
Do we have all the former Mariner infielders yet?
ChristopherA - December 8, 2009
Someone give Pete O'Brien a call.
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
He was my favorite player when I was old enough to remember watching baseball.
AtomicGarden - December 9, 2009
That's because he was the King.
The King of Pop-ups!
Wilder. - December 9, 2009
Cross Wilson Valdez off the list.
HARRYP09 - December 8, 2009
Am I the only one who thinks he may be talking about Branyan?
Vatinius - December 8, 2009
No, but a lot of us like Beltre more.
Jed MC - December 8, 2009
Wouldn't really make sense in that context
gregrabble - December 8, 2009
I know it's huge, but it's awesome:
EnglishMariner - December 8, 2009
My new favorite Irish baseball player!
DaCheez - December 8, 2009
Finally!
A reason to have a special St. Paddy’s Baseball Day!
msb - December 8, 2009
This is what took the announcement so long to happen.
Mariner John - December 8, 2009
If we can add Nick Johnson and Rich Harden I'll be so excited for 2010.
And if we extend Felix … I will extend something.
EnglishMariner - December 8, 2009
Are Chone and Junior just chopped liver to you? Come on!!!
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
Junior? Really??
ToddK - December 8, 2009
Junior is...
Not Chone
ARock - December 8, 2009
Signing Nick Johnson and Harden would just about complete the offseason.
Adding a DH and C would be gravy, but those positions can be filled internally. Adam Moore could blossom and Mike Carp can DH.
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
I agree.
We need Johnson, good reasonable cost bat. We have replacement level+ backup at the position if he gets hurt.
Would be nice to add a ~league average DH (2 wins), and use Griffey as a PH.
Harden would be great too, like Johnson we easily have slightly above replacement level arms to fill in if he misses some time, but we need the upside potential.
Mike Cameron would be great too for a year, if we can afford him. Granderson is gone and we dont want Bay, so probably Saunders will be the left fielder. Cameron is about the only one left that I would be happy to see us get at that position.
ARock - December 8, 2009
I would think
Johnson would DH and Carp would play 1B so that we could protect Nick Johnson’s china doll body.
Edgar for Pres - December 8, 2009
Excellent point.
redwolf75 - December 8, 2009
Good point.
ARock - December 8, 2009
Mike Carp can DH in the same sense that Griffey can, or Loafie can play 1B.
Yes, you CAN do this. No, you SHOULDN’T do this if you can avoid it. Carp’s not that good a hitter.
FWIW, Bill James projects Griffey and Carp to be ~.330 wOBA hitters (Carp, .331, Griffey, .328), and I think James’s system is likely overprojecting their performance (as it does for a lot of players)- but the point is it calls them out as being roughly equivalent. We should be trying to do better than have a replacement-level DH. Carp’s fine as a backup plan, but that’s it, especially given that the Designated Hugger is going to be on the roster anyway.
eponymous_coward - December 8, 2009
I think that is a blatant pessimistic projection, which is acceptable for a young prospect.
But Carp can hit. Maybe not for power, but he posted .391 wOBA in Double-AA and .364 wOBA in Triple-A (.388 wOBA during his short time in the majors).
And hitting isn’t what is intriguing about Carp, it’s his ability to get on base. The guy is an on-base machine and it makes him much more valuable than Griffey at DH. If Carp can develop a little bit of power, he can be a left-handed version of Edgar Martinez without the batting average.
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
I think Edgar's a horrible comparison for Carp.
Edgar has a career that’s very, very unusual as MLB ones go. Almost nobody (OK, maybe guys like Jose Cruz Sr. and Minnie Minoso) has their peaks in their 30’s.
I think Carp is in the Paul Sorrento/Adam LaRoche/Brad Fullmer mode of guys who can hit some and deserve MLB time, but aren’t anything special, and his AAA numbers don’t scream “OMG promote this guy now”.
eponymous_coward - December 8, 2009
Unless a player is a top-50 hitter in baseball history, they are a horrible comparison to Edgar Martinez.
What I was trying to get at is that Carp has a similar skill set to Edgar. Carp will have to develop a bit more power and will fall short in batting average, but he will get on base 40% of the time and he can hit all over the field (e.g. not a dead pull hitter like the players you mentioned above).
Carp is going to surprise people. He won’t have the career Edgar had, but he will be a guy we can count on to produce at DH every year— unlike the revolving door of ineptitude we have had the last five seasons. Carp is a better option than Griffey at this point.
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
Interesting that the Ms have had three of the NLB outliers ...
Edgar, Ichiro & Jamie
msb - December 8, 2009
ahem.
MLB.
msb - December 8, 2009
You project Mike Carp for a .400 OBP in MLB?
Matthew - December 8, 2009
I don't think it is unreasonable considering the numbers he has put up the last couple of seasons.
2008 AA – .403 OBP in 566 PA
2009 AAA – .372 OBP in 490 PA
2009 ML – .415 OBP in 65 PA (yes, extremely limited sample size)
Nobody is going to accurately project what Carp can do in the majors, but he is only 23-years old and shown he has the ability to get on base in the high minors. If he can improve his zone contact percentage 5-10%, he will likely hit for a better average to go along with his high walk rate.
I doubt we’ll see much of Carp in 2010, but if he can develop some power in Triple-A this year, I think we’ll see Carp at 1B or DH full-time beginning in 2011.
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
That's crazy
OlSalty - December 9, 2009
Okay... thanks for the rebuttal?
Look, I’m not saying Carp is going to be a world-beater hitter. However, he has the skill set to be an above-average player on offense who could be a mainstay in the lineup.
Why is that so hard to believe?
Wilder. - December 9, 2009
It's not that I disagree that he has the potential to be above average
(Though that would take a bit of a step up on his part)
But .400 OBP is well above “above average” and seems wildly optimistic to me. You kind of have to throw out those MLB numbers until he gets more PA’s, and his AAA numbers were pretty far from .400 and should be expected to go down somewhat in transition to the majors.
OlSalty - December 9, 2009
Lots of guys peak in their 30s
Poochie - December 8, 2009
Felix will get the extention.
Before Jan 15th. It will be a wait still but whatever.
mark sobba - December 8, 2009
but not that high.
philosofool - December 8, 2009
I always have had a small warm spot in my heart for Chone because of MVP Baseball.
I don’t remember if it was the ‘04 or ’05 incarnation, but I loved that game to death (as I know some of you did too). My friends and I would always do fantasy drafts and usually we’d end up taking Chone because his overall rating was horrible, but all his skills were legit and he could fill in as a starter at any position you failed to take until Round 16 or so.
Anyway, whoo!
SethGrandpa - December 8, 2009
May Figgins carve a new legend in Mariner Lore
ThundaPC - December 8, 2009
I got a Choner!
It’s out of my system now.
Slow Country - December 8, 2009
Is that like a shiner?
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
It is purple and shiny...
Slow Country - December 8, 2009
,
® Eyebrows
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
Speaking of Eyebrows, I wonder what he thinks of all this?
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
I wonder too
royalcurve - December 8, 2009
I have made my feelings known.
Eyebrows - December 8, 2009
I'm sure he has several of those at home.
CapSea - December 8, 2009
I've covered one side of my entry hallway with them.
Sometimes, when it’s especially cold out, I like to crank up the heater, strip naked, grease myself up in butter and gyrate against the pleasurewall.
Eyebrows - December 8, 2009
Well yeah, this is what I assumed.
CapSea - December 8, 2009
Sometimes?
royalcurve - December 8, 2009
This is now my favorite LL comment, ever.
Jeff Nye - December 8, 2009
Ugh you whippersnappers will never know.
Eyebrows - December 8, 2009
Welcome abourd Chone.
Vatinius - December 8, 2009
Ahaha
OlSalty - December 8, 2009
SEofTTLE?
Wilder. - December 8, 2009
Actually, I think it's SEoATTLE.
C-Nage - December 8, 2009
Welcome Figgins,
may you be all I hope you to be! :D
mark sobba - December 8, 2009
Nostradamus Award goes to Gomez.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/7/1/563024/7-1-open-game-thread-part#7119507
eponymous_coward - December 8, 2009
Contract details
For those interested: link
Safe to say the vesting option isn’t going to hurt us much. If Figgins is bad, it seems pretty unlikely he’ll get 600 PAs.
JLC - December 8, 2009
Ok, I like that vesting option alot more now. I figured would be lower than that.
Goose - December 8, 2009
Ditto.
BrianL - December 8, 2009
Shit
If he bats seventh in the order and gets fives daya off, he’ll struggle to make 600PA. This vesting option comes to fruition only if he’s really good.
philosofool - December 8, 2009
Yeah
I almost feel like it was put in there to convince Chone to sign before the Angels or any other teams stepped in to top the deal.
JLC - December 8, 2009
I like that vesting option a lot more than I liked Vidro's.
Benne - December 8, 2009
I'm getting ready for Flo Rida's next Mariner song "You Can By My Chone."
A vesting option that is equal to his yearly salary and requires essentially a full season of play to vest is just excellent. I can’t see anything bad about this deal. This has put me in a great mood. Bring on tomorrow!
CapSea - December 8, 2009
It is so obvious to me who Z is talking about
The Edgar is coming out of retirement to play third.
Coug1990 - December 8, 2009
My money is on Jose Vidro
Corco - December 8, 2009
Miguel Cairo!
Eyebrows - December 8, 2009
Sexson, perhaps?
C-Nage - December 8, 2009
What about Felix Fermin?
Or we could stop naming every infielder ever to play for the Mariners and assume it’s Beltre since he’s the only recent infielder who would cause Figgins to move to 2nd.
Mariner John - December 8, 2009
Adam Jones?
CapSea - December 8, 2009
Spie...
No, I can’t even say it as a joke.
msb - December 8, 2009
I'm so glad i hadn't really gotten into baseball the time spiezio was around
I wished I hadn’t heard anything, to be honest.
C-Nage - December 8, 2009
Adam Jones for second base!
JamMasterJesus - December 8, 2009
I was actually thinking Wilson Valdez
Corco - December 8, 2009
Late, and signed with the Phillies.
HARRYP09 - December 8, 2009
I think after reading the contract terms we can start to consider this 'Great News'.
600PA for his option to vest? $36 Million over four years for a 2-3 WAR player who can play multiple positions effectively?
EnglishMariner - December 9, 2009
BB-Ref poo-pooing Figgins.
I wish they would have used wOBA rather than OPS+ to justify their claim, as a lot of Figgins production is with his legs, not the bat. There is also no reference to fielding or his versatility.
EnglishMariner - December 9, 2009
Sorry, the link:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/3728
EnglishMariner - December 9, 2009
Shit.
Didn’t see this until after I put up the FanShot. Oh well.
That’s a POS article.
JLProck - December 9, 2009
Enjoy Figgy
I know I’ll miss him
ryanfea - December 9, 2009
Oh good god.
Do we have to call him that? Are we going to be hearing Herny and Moorey and Smithy too?
nathaniel dawson - December 9, 2009
Figgy rolls off the tounge a little better than the others
ryanfea - December 10, 2009
Carlos Guillen
The Dodgers are looking for a pitcher in exchange for Carlos Guillen He would fit the “former Mariner infielder” category.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10496890
Chimarinersfan - December 11, 2009
That would be a nifty trick since Guillen is on the Tigers.
Also, I think we’ve got this covered in one of the rumor posts in the FanShot section. Also, this. I definitely agree he’d be nice if we could get rid of Silva in the process.
CapSea - December 11, 2009
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