So as you're probably aware of by now, Phillippe Aumont made an appearance out of the bullpen in last Saturday's WBC tilt between Canada and the USA. And for a guy who just turned 20 in January facing some of the best players in baseball, I'd say the results were pretty good. Aumont loaded the bases and had shaky command over 25 pitches, but he got out of the inning unscathed, striking out both Kevin Youkilis and Curtis Granderson to escape the jam. It was vaguely reminiscent of Mark Lowe's big league debut, the only big difference being that Aumont didn't come in with little benefits like playing experience or time above A-ball. I imagine he was probably pleased.
In case you missed Aumont's inning, here are clips of what I consider to be his best fastball and best curveball from the game:
In the first clip, you see Aumont blow a tailing heater by Chipper Jones. The movement on that pitch is absolutely mind-blowing, and for the batter, it's kind of like facing a 94mph screwball. Good luck.
Meanwhile, the second clip shows David Wright flailing after an 81mph curve with more than a foot of break. Already a dangerous pitch, putting it in that particular location makes it utterly unhittable. Whether Aumont meant to put it there or not is up to you to decide, but the results are sexy. It's like a Morrow curve, only with some horizontal movement thrown in for good measure.
One inning, 25 pitches, eight swinging strikes, and a 95mph average fastball. Command issues or not, it's hard to watch that inning and not come away excited. Your typical 20 year old prospect isn't able to give that much trouble to 14 combined ASG appearances.
Being that this was only one inning of work, we can't expect that Aumont's fastball will stay that high as a starter. And make no mistake, he still has lots and lots of work to do. His location is all over the place, he doesn't yet have a great, consistent feel for his curve, and he needs to develop another pitch to offer to lefties. But this is a pretty good example of why age and level aren't nearly as important for pitching prospects as they are for hitting prospects. Just 20, with a playing age of something like, I dunno, 6, Aumont already has two pitches that, when they're working, are above-average by big league standards. His fastball has crazy movement and his breaking ball falls off the table. Those are weapons, and repertoires don't change by level; stuff is stuff, and a 95mph fastball is the same to Albert Pujols as it is to Matt Mangini. If June rolled around and Aumont suddenly got control of a changeup, he could probably come up to Seattle and have some success.
You can't really say that for hitters. Pitching prospects learn something new at each level, but the biggest factor in pitcher success is stuff, and stuff - or at least throwing ability - doesn't get much better with age or experience. It's like defense. You peak when you're young and gradually get worse. With hitting prospects, though, they have to both learn and grow into their bodies, and as such age and level are way bigger deals. An 18 year old with good power in A-ball will be more valuable than a 25 year old with good power in AAA, but at the same time that 18 year old with good power probably won't be able to survive the jump from A-ball to the Majors, because he'd be going up against the best and smartest pitchers in the world with underdeveloped physical and mental skills. He might be able to identify and destroy changeups from teenagers, but things are a little different in the bigs. So they have to take it slower. There are just too many things a hitter picks up in AA and AAA and with age for one to expect a hitter to have immediate success after skipping them. I hope I'm explaining this well.
Physically, hitters develop into the middle of their careers, while pitchers are ready at the beginning. And talent-wise, a hitter's only as good as the pitches he's faced, while a pitcher's only as good as the pitches he throws. That's the best quick summation I can give. So while you have to take a lot into consideration when deciding whether or not a hitter is ready for the Majors, it's much easier for a pitcher: either he throws ML-caliber stuff or he doesn't. It doesn't matter where he is or who he's facing. Whether he be a 19 year old throwing 95 in rookie ball with two other good pitches or a 32 year old throwing the same stuff in AAA, then - provided they're both given decent scouting reports - they're both ready to succeed in the big leagues. Once you have the stuff, and you know where it's going most of the time, then you're just about as ready as you'll ever be to face the ultimate challenge.
Phillippe Aumont has a long way to go before he's ready to pitch in Seattle. But the difference between his development and, say, Carlos Triunfel's is that, while they both have a lot of ground to make up, Aumont is legitimately capable of making it up in a hurry. While we have no idea when, or even if he'll ever get himself completely straightened out, it's the potential sudden explosiveness that makes him and other pitching prospects so damn exciting. Volatile unpredictability is the spice of life.
0 recs | 89 comments
I think the last time I was this excited for an M's prospect was Felix.
That inning was just fucking nuts. I think I’ll have to go watch it again.
BrettJMiller - March 9, 2009
All games need to be in slow motion
So I can see what’s happening…
section331 - March 9, 2009
Where did you go, Dave Henderson.
Matthew - March 9, 2009
I agree.
appleshampoo - March 10, 2009
God I wish the Cardinals had anyone in the minors with that kind of stuff
vivaelpujols - March 9, 2009
Pujols will look pretty fine in a M's uniform.
Slurvey - March 9, 2009
No he wouldn't
JI - March 10, 2009
Wrong.
Mariner John - March 10, 2009
Needs more Pujols.
Vatinius - March 10, 2009
Flag'd
vivaelpujols - March 11, 2009
Unless you are a “typical” left hander. You are ready for prime time the second you hit you’re 30th birthday!
brent in Korea - March 9, 2009
The movement on that fastball makes it look like a whiffleball pitch
Sam Page - March 9, 2009
or a change...
I looked at the video before reading anything and I was thinking he had some nice movement on his change. Slow motion can be deceiving, that is crazy movement on his fastball.
mymrbig - March 10, 2009
God, I remember Lowe's debut
Was one of the only games I went to that year. Terrible game, nothing good about it until he showed up. After he loaded the bases we all groaned, but when he got out of it, the entire stadium rose up and cheered for him. That night made me a Lowe fan for life.
Ezzra - March 9, 2009
That always struck me as weird
Mark Lowe got a rousing ovation. Who the fuck was Mark Lowe?
Jeff Sullivan - March 9, 2009
Nobody at all. But that night sucked and we needed something to cheer about.
And getting out of a bases loaded jam (though it was his fault) in his major league debut was pretty impressive. After he gave out a single, double, and HBP, he roared back with an 8 pitch full count K, managed to throw out a runner at home, then struck out Magglio (the 2, 3, and 4 hitters).
Honestly, I really have no idea why it was so epic to those of us who cheered for him. All I know is I haven’t seen a half inning that got me more emotional in the last 5 years of Mariners. Maybe you had to be there.
Ezzra - March 9, 2009
Did you ever experience Thunderstruck?
Wilder. - March 9, 2009
Yeah, I did, and loved every minute of those innings
But everybody expected Putz to succeed. This was just some guy in his major league debut down 6 runs- a clear underdog against the likes of Pudge and Magglio. And you gotta root for the underdog.
Ezzra - March 9, 2009
No, I mean, I get it
it’s just such a weird situation in retrospect. For all we knew, it was just some nobody reliever.
Jeff Sullivan - March 9, 2009
Except for those of us watching on TV.
I think we fell in love with his stuff pretty quickly. Oh, that changeup.
Matthew - March 9, 2009
I hadn't heard of him before the game
Ezzra - March 9, 2009
I was at the game when Bryan Lahair made his ML debut.
Even he got about a 5 minute standing ovation. I think everyone was just so happy to see Sexson gone and an have alternative to Ears.
Vatinius - March 10, 2009
I think I might have been at that game.
I know I went to the game on July 4th and then another game later that week. Why did I throw out my 2006 ticket stubs? Arg.
appleshampoo - March 10, 2009
Oh god I'm loving Aumont even more...
You’re not the only one dreaming…
Oh man this article makes the NY Times looks like the NY Post or the Post like the Times… I forget which one is the good one.
Slurvey - March 9, 2009
But he's French. He'll be the downfall of this team.
/marinator
Phil Hatzenbuehler - March 10, 2009
French Canadian
double negative is a positive!
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Doesn't matter.
/marinator
Phil Hatzenbuehler - March 10, 2009
But math!
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
I miss marinator
I would love to see a thread with him, butthol, manzell, F’nA’ and weaton4life
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
What about spittle?
Mariner John - March 11, 2009
ASUBoyd, where are you now?
pdb - March 11, 2009
In Arizona?
Matthew - March 11, 2009
Manzell? Never heard of that guy.
.Taylor - March 11, 2009
Great writeup Jeff..
His stuff is ridiculous. You could put any guy in the majors in the box against him right now, and I’d feel there would be a good shot that he’d strike that guy out. Of course the consistency to get man after man out is what he needs. But from a stuff perspective, there isn’t a major leaguer in the game right now that would enjoy stepping into the box against him.
Rudy4three - March 9, 2009
I would feel much less confident were he facing a lefty
Jeff Sullivan - March 9, 2009
Hooray!
Corco - March 9, 2009
Yeah it's hard to watch that inning...
especially when ESPN skips it on the replay to get to something more exciting, apparently.
PascoJoe - March 9, 2009
Another look at Aumont's mechanics
One thing I notice with his mechanics is his glove side stability. If you look at how his glove falls off behind is left hip as he rotates to release, it indicates that he’s pulling off of his target line a bit more than he should. This is the same kind of “front side fly” that Wash has (look at a still frame of him at release), Ramon Martinez did, and so did Steve Avery. I’m sure there’s dozens more that do it, but those 3 guys jump out at me now.
Martinez and Avery both broke down often in and never made good on a promising career. In my opinion, a strong, stable front side is more important to the long term health than whether someone is throwing overhand, 3/4, low 3/4 or side arm. Don Drysdale, Walter Johnson, Dennis Eckersly, Randy Johnson, and even Sabathia all throw at a similar angle as Aumont, so the angle doesn’t worry me as long as it’s repeatable and he can still get on top of the fastball (downward, late movement) and breaking ball (getting the ball down and in long the lefty.)
Just my $.02 so take it for what it’s worth
codered - March 10, 2009
Trying to predict long-term health from pitching mechanics is a huge no-no around here
Just so you know.
Graham MacAree - March 10, 2009
I think he's making the repeatability case as much as the mechanics one
which is a fairly valid argument, as far as I can tell.
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
'In my opinion, a strong, stable front side is more important to the long term health than whether someone is throwing overhand'
Graham MacAree - March 10, 2009
I chose to only selectively read portions of the second paragraph.
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
I guess I should have said
that long term effectiveness and repeatability have less to do with arm angle than they do a stable front side.
codered - March 10, 2009
Filthy.
brayden04 - March 10, 2009
Question...
I notice his leg “kick” on his follow through is very different on each pitch (it goes higher on the curve). Does that matter it terms of tipping pitches, or is it too late in the motion for the hitter to notice?
speedomike - March 10, 2009
Probably much too late, might be a .gif thing, too
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Way too late
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
I wouldn't think it's too late, but in this case
it seems more a matter of the situation. In the ‘low kick’ gif, there are runners on 1st and 2nd. In the ‘high kick,’ the bases are loaded. I think the former is his attempt to get the ball to the plate a little quicker.
marc w - March 10, 2009
After looking at the video again
it appears to be a FA/CU difference, rather than a base situation difference. I still don’t know how important it is, though.
His leg doesn’t really look that different until the ball has almost arrived, by which point the hitter has already seen the pitch and probably figured out what it is. Or, if he hasn’t, it’s too late to do anything about it.
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
Whoops a doodle
I thought we were talking about his leg kick pre-delivery. A leg kick on follow through is, of course, WAAAYY too late.
Even the pre-delivery kick doesn’t look too different now that I look at it more closely. He’s not tipping his pitches.
marc w - March 10, 2009
Yeah, I don't see anything different about his knee lift
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
I figured as much
speedomike - March 11, 2009
I assume that's a two-seamer he's throwing?
The movement is obscene.
Teej - March 10, 2009
For the world's sake I hope so
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
For my sake I hope not.
Aaron Campeau - March 10, 2009
Does he need a change?
AJ Burnett only has two pitches (fastball, curve), and he’s pretty successful.
Llewdor - March 10, 2009
I'd say Burnett is an exception
The majority of successful starting pitchers need three pitches. Aumont might be a special case if his fastball and curve turn out that good, but I think it’s more likely that he’ll need to throw a change at least a little bit.
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
Erik Bedard as well
essentially you need a spectacular offspeed pitch and a ton of deception in your delivery to be successful with only two pitches
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Pretty much
and it’s worth pointing out that both Bedard and Burnett do throw a change (and Bedard a cutter as well) at least a little bit of the time.
Aumont’s arm slot also leads me to wonder how much success he could have against lefties if he weren’t to develop a third pitch.
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
With a fastball tailing like his does, he might have a shot
because what you’re looking for is something moving away from an opposite handed batter anyway
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Any ideas why Bedard has thrown his change so much less each of the last four years?
Did his curve just get that much better?
And I think I agree that Aumont needs to learn a third pitch because even if he can’t throw it well, it still adds one more thing a batter has to watch for against him, even if the guy knows never to swing at it.
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Couldn't tell you
Has to be a curveball comfort/ability thing.
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
He could probably be ok without a change
or even very good with Maddux command. But him being 20 wouldn’t you at least try to teach him a change for a couple of years to see if he takes to it? He’d be a killer even if he remains a little wild.
Bearskin Rugburn - March 10, 2009
I think the problem is that he'll never get on top of a change and thus won't get the desired effects and probably won't be able to throw it for a strike
but yeah, it’s worth a shot.
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
He could try to learn a splitter instead
Jeff Sullivan - March 10, 2009
If it were a video game he could have a knuckleball as an offspeed pitch
JI - March 10, 2009
I missed how in Ken Griffey's Super Slugfest, David Weathers could throw a 101 mph fastball and a 56 mph unhittable knuckleball
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
Satchel Paige can do something like this in MVP 05
JI - March 10, 2009
Video game knuckle balls are obscene
I think it’s hard to program the physics of one properly.
bluemax - March 10, 2009
Well given that a good knuckleball essentially takes advantage of creating an incredibly turbulent flow in front of the ball
and we have trouble describing turbulent flows in general, I’m not the least bit surprised that video game designers have no idea what to do with one.
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
I don't have any trouble describing turbulent flow:
’It’s turbulent’
Graham MacAree - March 10, 2009
You're clearly more talented than I am then
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
I wonder which game has the most realistic knuckler
Maybe the old FPS games since their physics were helped by the dude who wrote the physics of baseball.
bluemax - March 10, 2009
*mathematically describing turbulent flows
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
I wish you'd stick to topics you knew something about.
abender20 - March 10, 2009
There's no need to make fun of my lack of general knowledge =(
seattlebruin - March 10, 2009
It takes too long to mock your lack of specific knowledge though
pdb - March 10, 2009
That fastball just broke my zipper
Incredible
tootthekazoo - March 10, 2009
Unzipping your pants from the inside is a common symptom of watching Aumont pitch.
abender20 - March 10, 2009
I'll start wearing sweat pants then
tootthekazoo - March 10, 2009
nonononono
Aaron Campeau - March 10, 2009
But they provide comfort and flexibility
tootthekazoo - March 10, 2009
They should call them "Fuck it, I give up" pants.
Aaron Campeau - March 10, 2009
A completely appropriate name
I would wear grey ones paired with a tan colored duster jacket (think trench coat) if I had reached the “Fuck it, I give up” stage
tootthekazoo - March 10, 2009
That sounds more like the registered sex offender phase.
Aaron Campeau - March 10, 2009
I still would use the blanket phrase of "FIIGU" for any use of sweat pants
Lots of interconnecting phases and stages to that, but all of them boil down to sweat pants
tootthekazoo - March 10, 2009
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