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The home run was really unneccesary.

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A -69 for Lowe eh?

That’s how Sean Connery scored with your mom last night.

Any way in Lowe’s defense he was pitching 4/5 last days including a 2 inning stint yesterday. I knew when we put Lowe out there it was gonna be bad. He was overworked and they should’ve put Morrow in or something don’t blame Wak too much for using Lowe especially since he’s been pretty effective his last few outings but Mark Lowe shouldn’t had been on the mound tonight.

Pitman pointed out that pre-game Wak said they were hoping to get several innings out of Batista as the pen was pretty shot.
That turned out pretty well.
I image thats what he thought when they had to pull Batista for crapitude.
Home runs against us usually are, unnecessary.

Olson pitched a respectable game. The offense was, once again, offensive.

Redman and Carp!

I vote we just bring them up from Tacoma to play SS and 2B. It’s not like they can really be any worse defensively than the Blunder Twins.

Actually that would look worse I'm pretty sure.
Yes, they really could.
I would agree with this.

It might look worse at first, but we need to look forward, what we’ve got now clearly isn’t working and any experience we can give Carp and Redman might pay off for 2010, 2011…

Carp and Redman are not middle infielders.
Do we not have any replacement infielders in the organization?
We traded them away. :(

As far as middle infielders, we’re pretty damn dry.

Chris Woodward?
is 33 and mediocre.
...and is not Jose Lopez or Yuniesky Betancourt.

Just a thought.

You'rer not Yuni, strap on a glove and get the fuck out there.

It’d be an improvement right?

Whoopdie goddamned doodle

People need to realize that even though Yuni and Lopez are bad they’re not the worst baseball players on the planet.

And Lopez > Yuni
I'm not so sure of that anymore :(
I don't think that's true. Lopez has lost almost all his value as well...
Significantly better
Does this mean we can't discuss this?
Are you serious?

I’ve been out of town for a week. Did we really trade them and for what and why?

I meant Asdrubal Cabrera and Luis Valbuena.
Don't we have to work with what we've got?

In all seriousness, if we could get rid of the doublemint twins (who aren’t worth anything that I can see) and give Carp and Redman some experience, wouldn’t we be in a better boat?

Carp is lefthanded and only a so-so fielding first baseman as is.
And Wlad is a much better investment of gametime than Redman, who is almost thirty.
Carp would be a disaster in the middle infield. Prentice Redman is an outfielder who has played the infield one time in his career (from what I can tell).

I understand what you’re getting at, but it’s not a video game where you can just plug guys into any position. This would be a disaster.

FIRST BASEMEN AND CORNER OUTFIELDERS CAN'T PLAY THE MIDDLE INFIELD

IF THEY COULD BRIAN LAHAIR WOULD BE A STAR

I am amazed at this sub thread.
It's like Question? but not funny.
I have to give you credit.

You at least picked right-handed throwing OFers to convert into middle IFers. So while the idea’s still pretty dumb, it’s not as potentially dumb as it could be. LH throwing 2B and SS would be, um, amusing.

It would be a blow to the defense, but it would be worth it
Not anyone who's going to help anytime soon.

If only Callix Crabbe were any good. :(

Redman isn't a prospect but

with the team struggling this badly I would willing to give him a shot. He does have an OPS of .1000.

This is a really bad comment.
Yeah.

But their defensive mistakes would be sort of adorable.

No not really.

Actually maybe… Just maybe if it’s tripping over their feet and falling on their faces every play then I guess yes it maybe be kinda funny.

Friendly tip:

Using the reply button that’s below each comment helps a lot around here. Makes the conversations a lot easier to read. It nests each comment underneath the one it’s responding to. Pretty sweet feature.

Do we have a single legitimate All-Star?

Or are we the team that gets one because every team has to have at least one player? Who is it? Clearly, I’m in a mood tonight. Ichiro is always a good bet, but… We’ve got some great defensive players, but our offense sucks so much. Why can’t Beltre play like he wants a contract next year? Why do we continue to send Yuseless and Loafie out there every night, both in the field and at the plate? Griffrey gets a pass, his only job is to put butts in the seats. Branyan, Gutz and Endy are doing what we expected. Joh is Joh. I wish Felix was what he could be every night. Washburn is better than expected. Silva is Silva. The Ministry is the Ministry. Balentien probably needs more playing time. Wak still hasn’t figured out the best line-up (although without more LHBs he’s running uphill). Please, Z, make this season worth watching. It’s been so long or it seems like it’s been so long.

Branyan, Ichiro, Bedard
Actually, Branyan has a decent case

He’s certainly behind Cabrera and Morneau, but one could make a strong case for him over Pena and Texeira, were they inclined to look at only this year’s results.

Bedard is an interesting case – his production per inning is as strong as anyone after Greinke and Halladay (and maybe Verlander), but his lack of innings hurts his cause.

At least your not over analyzing his
No and no

We don’t really have a legitimate All-Star if you’re simply going by merit and nothing less, but Ichiro will almost assuredly be elected to start the game again, meaning we won’t be one of those teams who has someone added to the reserves or the pitching staff just because they need a representative.

Branyan has played like an MVP
And he's still third best, at best, at his position in the AL

I’d be surprised if his defense is better than Cabrera’s or Morneau’s either.

You'd be surprised if his defense is better than Miguel Cabrera's?
Well if you go by the limited 2009 UZR data, Cabrera's better!

I have a feeling that might not be true all season.

Who gives a shit
Well, at least the Angels lost
This is wonderful news.

I just CANNOT let them win this division again with a mediocre team. I don’t think I can take it. Something has to be done. Something.

The Rangers could win this sorry division, would that make it more palatable?
I'd prefer the A's if it can't be us, but I'm OK with Texas.

At least they’re exciting to watch. I want to be inside Elvis Andrus.

I think it's not going to be the A's, I don't think they aren't going anywhere.

I totally agree that Elvis is impressively good, but we’ve got great outfield defense. If we could just upgrade the middle infield defense (even without adding much offensively) we could probably keep up with the Angels (yeah, I live in a glass half full world), I think we could have the pitching to keep us in this. I think Carp and Redman would not be any worse than Yuni and Lopez. Why do you think I’m wrong here?

Because they cannot play the middle infield.

Mike Carp is playing the easiest position on the field, and he’s so-so by most accounts. Are you just going to move him to shortstop, the toughest spot on the field? Mike Carp playing shortstop is . . . I’m seriously laughing just thinking about it. Yuni sucks as a shortstop, but he’s miles beyond these guys as an infielder.

Are you really proposing that Carp and Redman should play middle infield for the Mariners?

Here’s the defensive spectrum.

You can’t take a player who is average at best at their respective position and move them way up the spectrum and expect anything resembling passable defense.

Defense matters.

Yet we trot out Yuni and Lopez out there most every game.
Let's put Clement at SS and get that left handed bat in the lineup
Now you're talking!
I'm typing actually
In my head you're talking, the narrator voice is still up in the air though

I’ve been toying with James Earl Jones but it screws up the pace in a fast thread

Yuni and Lopez are leaps and bounds better than a bizarro infield of Carp and Redman.
At least it might be entertaining unlike

the isomnia curing crapfest that is going on right now.

What is this based on?

Yuni and Lopez leaps and bounds better than what? They aren’t better than any replacement level player that I can figure.

Yuni and Lopez suck

WHEN COMPARED TO PEOPLE WHO CAN PLAY UP THE FUCKING MIDDLE.

Well the Skip Schumaker experiment has been such a resounding success I can see why you might want to try this.

Why not give Cedeno a shot first?

Mike Carp's defense at 2nd would not be replacment level.

It would be an absolute disaster. I’d rather just play with 7 men if this was our last option.

Er....
Jesus Fucking Christ really?
Was Truinfel our only legitimate MIL that had a shot at making the club this year?
Middle infielder I meant.
He didn't have a prayer
Triunfel's probably still a couple years away

and not sure if he’ll ever play the MIF in the bigs

I totally agree that defense matters.

I’ve read so much that Clement is the poster boy for what the Mariner’s need this year. I’m so sick of people wanting to see Clement. He isn’t a defensive catcher. Carp is not the best defensive 1B we have either. Redman is CF and not a middle infielder. But if people can beg for Clement, I would like to give Carp and Redman the chance to do better than Yuni and Lopez. It’s a chance. They’re cheap. No, neither one of them would be playing their given position, but Yuni and Lopez are playing their regular position in a substandard fashion. They are slackers on defense and hackers on offense. 2009 is time to find out what the Mariners can and will do. Lose the doublemint twins and try something that might work better. In balance, I don’t believe either Carp or Redman will be a minus when you balance out their defense and offense from what we are currently getting from Yuni and Lopez.

You're joking, right?
Carp and Redman would have to hit like Super Pujols in order to break even for the amount of runs they'd give up playing the middle infield.
You have to remember.

When we say Lopez and Yuni suck at defense we are comparing them to other middle infielders, we’re not saying Jack Cust and Prince Fielder would be a better double-play duo. You can’t just take any player and say they are better at defense than Lopez and Yuni, putting Mike Carp at 2nd would kill any offensive value he would bring to the team.

Lopez and Yuni suck at defense compared to Jason Bartlett and Adam Everett, not Mike Carp and John Kruk.

I guess I disagree.

To me, Yuni and Lopez suck way more than you think they do. I think almost anybody would be better in their spots, especially, people who could add something with their bats.

You know how opinions aren't supposed to be wrong?

I think you have just invalidated that assumption.

I get what you're all saying. So why do you love Clement so much?

Why does the FO get so much heat for leaving him in Tacoma? He’s a crappy catcher. Maybe, and I mean maybe he can hit MLB pitching, but he’s still a miserable catcher. I’m just trying to figure out this site and I don’t mean to be obnoxious at all, but I’ve read nothing but “We love Clement and we need his bat right now” since spring training. I don’t see him as a better prospect against RHP than Carp, who may also be miserable at a middle infield position. I was just suggesting that he move from 1B to 2B and use his LHB to his advantage in a lineup that would seem to need that.

You realize that Clement is only miserable compared to other catchers and no other random players who have never caught, right?

If you put Carp behind the plate Clement would quickly look like the greatest defensive player of all time.

Jeff Clement has actually caught in his career.

Mike Carp has never played 2nd plus catcher defense is kind of hard to judge, I think we’d all agree that Clement isn’t very good at defense but it’s still a hard position to judge nonetheless.

Also we have Rob Johnson on the team who can’t hit or play defense, so might as well replace him with someone who can at least hit.

Also you will notice that no one is calling for Jeff Clement to play 2nd base or shortstop.
I said nothing about Clement.

Your argument is simply dumb.

Or to actually answer your question

We do not want Clement to be called up to play somewhere where he’s never played. He has played catcher probably since he was 7. Mike Carp probably hasn’t been agile enough to play second base since Little League. Calling up Carp to play 2nd is like getting a chance to have George Carlin (ok, Mike Carp isn’t anywhere near as awesome at baseball as Carlin was at life but this makes more sense than your point) perform for a night and choosing to have him play jazz. At least he’ll be better than Kenny G!

Do you suck on lead paint chips in your spare time?
Here is the thing.

Almost any middle infielder would be better in their spots not any player. They’re bad at their positions compared to people that play their positions, their not bad at it compared to DH’s and catchers.

Skip Schumaker is a player who's never played the infield professionally and he's something like 15 runs worse than Yuni projected over 162 games

and he has the prototyical body of a secondbaseman. Even though he is hitter reasonably well, he’s worse than replacement because of his defense

Carp or whoever would be much much worse on both sides of their game. You assumptions have no basis is reality.

What are you talking about? He has only one error in 32 games! Don't be drinkin' that Haterade!

The softest, surest hands you’ll ever see…with a -30 UZR/150 – and what the hell, he has a -122.25 UZR/150 in 47 innings in the OF this year? I’ve never seen any UZR/150 that bad, no matter how small the sample size.

He's a good outfielder
No, I would put a pitcher at third base.

It would be a blow to the defense, but it would be worth it.

Well if you actually think this then you're a fucking retard
I'm so confused
Are you a fan from another blog trying to sabotage us or something
No, not seriously.

But it sure might be more entertaining.

Where did he COME from? I hadn't heard anything about the guy, and BAM he's filthy.
Us winning the division with a mediocre team?
Yes please!
I know there aren't a lot of options but

something had got to be changed. The team as constructed right now just isn’t going to score.

Ackley can't get here soon enough.

Hopefully he will erase the memory of Lopez..

This seems to be an odd prevailing thought.

Why does everybody assume Ackley ends up at second base?

They're assuming we'd have a logjam of OF players? Or something
A lot of things can happen in two years.
I've heard lots of people saying it though.

Some in context to the Mariners and some not. Peter Gammons seems convinced he’s the next Chase Utley.

He just had TJ surgery. There are fears that his arm can't handle outfield play.

I don’t know how much concern is warrants, but that’s what it is.

How the heck did I get a warning

All I have done is lurk, this is my first post.
And for what its worth, I am digging this site…one of the best on SB Nation

I'm starting to think we won't make the playoffs
Why do you hate the Mariners?
Oh my, what caused that thinking?
Mostly the lack of offense, the injuries, poor play from all our right handed infielders, Brandon Morrow's meltdown, and the losses.
Those are all ridiculous things to base that thought off of.
Right, we aren't anywhere near the playoffs.

And this year, we never were.

There are some days when I'm glad when I get slammed at work and don't get to see the game.
Report from Cheney

*RR-S didn’t look great but pitched 4 innings giving up only 1 run on a solo homer. He only threw 49 pitches. He was behind in the count a fair bit, but got a lot of soft flyball outs. No walks, 1 strikeout.

*Chris Shelton is kind of fat and really shouldn’t be playing 3B. LaHair didn’t really have a chance to look awful in RF.

*Jeff Clement looks short up close and personal. Mike Morse (2B tonight), on the other hand, looks like some kind of gangly giant.

*Saunders laid down a sexy bunt single and had a nice running catch in RF

Seriously people, taking stock of what the fuck is actually happening.

Last year’s team lost 101 games. We started Miguel Fucking Cairo at 1B. Our OF defense was a joke. Zduriencik came in and traded a broken closer for two thirds of our outfield, our fourth best starter and a middle infielder we’re all dying to see get more playing time. The Mariners are reasonable competitive and are moving in the right direction. Yes, our offense if bad, What the fuck were you expecting? Jesus Tapdancing Christ. Take this season for what it is. Calling for corner outfielders and first basemen to replace our middle infield? We’re way fucking smarter than that. I hope.

Screw outfielders and first basemen.

We should be playing our pitchers as our 2B and SS. I think Carlos Silva would make an excellent 2B.

Uh…

Silva would be a better DH I think.
You forgot Garret Olson
And Carp.

Once he is called up, he should add more injury to insult towards that trade.

I'd like to see Jesus tapdance.
It feels like you glossed over some of the suck from last season

Anyone who advocated picking up Adam Kennedy is looking like a sage right now.

He even hit home run tonight.

I wonder how many runs we will score between now and...

I can't stop laughing at this crap

It is so retarded it hurts.

Fuck cheezburger night. Are they going to give away cats, cheesburgers, or just retarded lolcats memorabilia?

I vote for cats. I would take a free cat if it was handed to me.

You Stupid Cat

Easy solution:

Since we’re the home team, change the rules so that if one of our middle infielders gets a glove on a ball, it’s an automatic three outs and ends the inning.

Voila, Prentice Redman and Mike Carp are now the best defensive middle infielders ever. All our problems are solved. I call this the F’n A’s-Sinking Away solution.
 

I think our lack of range would make even that a bad bargain for us.
A summary on the intelligent stance to offence and defence in player evaluation

We do not favour one over the other. All we do is allow both aspects of play to inform a decision.

Therefore playing a +20 bat/-60 glove player over a -10/-10 player would be dumb, but playing a +20/-20 player over a -20/-10 player would not be dumb. See how easy that is?

It's almost as if every player is the sum of their defense and offense
Ummm, what?

I think I just lost IQ points reading this thread. Mike Carp and Redman in the middle infield? Really?

Why not just trot out a whole lineup of little people and have the opposing pitchers walk them due to a miniscule strike zone. See, I can throw out a ridiculous idea based on an illogical thought too.

What happened to the quality posters? I have been here 4 plus years in various forms (thanks to the SBN switch I lost my username) and this thread wants to make me bake special brownies just to make it go away.

One very confused poster =/= no quality posters
Look a little harder - e.g. anywhere besides a Saturday night thread where one nutty guy hijacks it when everyone else is out, asleep, or drunk.
It was a Friday night.
Try again
I have Monday off, so my days are all fucked up.
Fucking Brandon Morrow
I'm glad I read this!
This is what you get for reading every comment on the site

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