Jesus Christ you guys.
The information right now is that Clement's almost certainly been traded, and that Aaron Pribanic may very well be involved as well. In addition, there are rumblings that it's a bigger package, and that the M's are moving minor league players for ML or ML-ready parts. And that's it. No idea to whom or for what. Details should come out after everyone wakes up again.
Graham's update and probably related: Pittsburgh sources are saying Jack Wilson and Ian Snell to Seattle for Clement, Cedeno, and the entire Clinton rotation. Immediate reaction from [Graham] is that it's an excessive loss of pitching prospects if true. We almost have to be pulling something else back for this to make sense. Maybe they're paying a tonne of cash?
Another update: Official. Pirates press release
0 recs | 1024 comments
Can't sleep...
Fin - July 29, 2009
...clown will eat you
Spoomeister - July 29, 2009
Now I can't sleep even more.
After watching this.
Fin - July 29, 2009
Tim Curry is satan
There are no other possible explanations
Karma Police - July 29, 2009
Actually...
He is
coolguyrob - July 29, 2009
That movie scares the shit out of me.
Slow Country - July 29, 2009
This trade beter be ground breaking for all the sleep we're losing over it.
JamMasterJesus - July 29, 2009
*better
JamMasterJesus - July 29, 2009
*We're not trading for Jeter...
PositivePaul - July 29, 2009
I'm just worried about what I'm going to find when I wake-up in the morning...
that’s what’s keeping me from leaving this thread now – who knows how many comments will be here by morning?!!
mwalter - July 29, 2009
We love you Jeff
That is why we make you create new threads! I really hope a trade is announced early tomorrow morning. And I KNOW I’m going to wake up around 4:00, go back to sleep, and have a dream about us totally fucking this trade up, then wake up and be so very grateful.
OceanBird - July 29, 2009
Argh. I JUST woke up, and I am nerdy enough that the whole time I'm doing cool new shit over here, I will be thinking of the Clement deal.
Fuck you, time zones!
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Just meaning like an hour ago. But close enough.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Okay, it's 4:00 AM where I am, I probably ought to sleep.
Here’s hoping Reid Brignac is a Mariner tomorrow morning.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
Good Heavens.
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
So what's the inside scoop on this trade?
Robert - July 29, 2009
Man I wish rturk89 was here to tell us.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
Your wish is my command.
M’s get Lillibridge and Kazmir, Rays get Clement and Morrow, White Sox get Pribanic. I made that comment or comments 1 1/2 years ago. How long before its forgotten?
rturk89 - July 29, 2009
This is awesome.
And you, sir, have received a rec for this.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
Wow, are you the guy who made the original Lillibridge claim!?
Upon confirmation you will receive a shiny rec for legendary comment status.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
I've been telling my kids about him!
and yes, yes he is.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
I've just recced him then, thanks!
YOU, RTURK89, ARE A FUCKING LEGEND.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
I love Jeffie :(
Curse his hobbled knees.
marinerdan - July 29, 2009
Read this in the comment at MLB Trade Rumors
Mariners Get:
3B Matt Gamel
C Angel Salome
SP Manny Parra
Brewers Get:
C Jeff Clement
SP Jarrod Washburn
Sounds like bull shit but here’s to hoping Z didn’t have any other offers on the table.
David89 - July 29, 2009
That deal would be a steal for the Mariners.
An absolute steal.
marinerdan - July 29, 2009
"Read this in the comment at MLB Trade Rumors"
NO
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
How's Gamel's defense?
Goose - July 29, 2009
Bad, from what I've heard.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
He claimed she raped him first.
But the forensics are not in his favor, so he’s on shaky ground at best.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
Well hopefully he can get a good deal from the DA.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Are you sure you're tired?
CapSea - July 29, 2009
No person of authority ever in the history of ever has commented on MLBTradeRumors, ever.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
8lb man found in woman's vagina
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Also people like to mention the draft he was in and compare him to
some of the great players that came out that year, and I don’t think that’s all that fair because not many people were complaining when we drafted him. In hindsight it looks bad but at the time he was an established college hitter who was a catcher with 30 HR potential.
Sometimes these prospect things just don’t turn out.
marinerdan - July 29, 2009
Most of us wanted Troy Tulowitzky, but weren't heartbroked over Clement.
Goose - July 29, 2009
I remember watching him play against WSU in Pullman where he hit a 2B and a homer.
I was grumpy for the rest of the day, but pleased when I heard we drafted him. Too bad it never came together here.
JAH - July 29, 2009
School me on Reid Brignac
If we do wind up getting him, why should I be excited? Assuming he lives up to his full potential who would he be comparable to? It would really be nice to have a real shortstop considering we haven’t had one since Alex Rodriguez…
OceanBird - July 29, 2009
Guillen?
But yeah, that position’s been hard to fill.That and catcher. Shockingly.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Yeah, so I've already given up on getting any sleep tonight.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Guys I doubt anything is going to be announced until morning EST at the earliest. Baseball guys have to sleep too you know...
That said, today at work is going to be a total writeoff because of this … it’s only 10.40AM here and already I’ve been on LL for about an hour…
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
Dude, its so hot here in Seattle, being close to 100 degrees Fahrenheit
And the buildings here do not having A/C. Its horrible.
Fin - July 29, 2009
100 degrees? I thought Seattle was like Manchester - aka gloomy all the time and cold.
I’m sat in my office and the two women have the bloody portable heater on … but enough LLLJ.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
Its just a myth.
Yes, maybe late September to maybe late April or early May is gloomy and overcast with seldom sunbreaks, but in the summer, its consistently at least 70 degrees, if not higher, and most of the time has some sun in the day.
Fin - July 29, 2009
It's to prevent the overpopulation of an already crowded city and area.
If more people from the east coast and California experienced the Northwest, we would be much highly populated here.
Fin - July 29, 2009
I've been doing the same, peaking in to anywhere where I can check this thread throughout the morning...haha
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
SOMEBODY KILL THE SUN THIS IS RIDICULOUS
OlSalty - July 29, 2009
This is not an off topic post.
Also the sun’s gone for another couple hours so this makes no sense.
Mariner John - July 29, 2009
Kill it now while it is asleep
Go Manures - July 29, 2009
Where have you/have you not gone, Alcides Escobar/Reid Brignac
Mariner Nation turns its lonely eyes to you’s…
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009 via mobile
I am consumed by this insatiable need to know
and cannot be expected to do anything, save click refresh habitually until I know exactly what has happened and how I am supposed to respond to it.
ARG.
JY - July 29, 2009
You and Jeff Clement
I bet the poor sap has been refreshing MLBTR every five minutes
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
The waiting is killing me.
Good thing it’s an early game because I didn’t sleep last night.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Seriously
Cleveland starts at noon thirty PST, so my guess is that ~10 am pst/1pm god’s time we’ll get an announcement
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
EST is God's time?
Pah! GMT is where it’s at.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Hell yes.
marinerdan - July 29, 2009
BST! BST!
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
So I looked at Drayer's blog this morning
… she doesn’t have anything new since last night, but she mentions that Clement “could be packaged with Brandon Morrow.”
Am I the only one who thinks that trading Morrow is a little weird? This is his age 24 season, he’s under team control for what, four years following this one, when healthy he has shown he can be an effective reliever… he’s got to have a lot of potential value to somebody, doesn’t he?
Two Rs and Two Ls - July 29, 2009
I for one would be unhappy with trading Morrow. I would like to wait until he has had a year as a starter before giving up on him.
Of course if GMZ can get a great deal for him, I’d be OK. But I have a feeling his trade value is not strong right now.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
I don't think it's necessarily weird
It depends on the return. For instance, packaging Clement and Morrow to get a guy like Alcides Escobar (probably with something else in return) doesn’t seem crazy. We desperately need a SS. You have to give up something to get something.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
I really doubt that Clement and Morrow would be enough to get Escobar.
My hopes for this deal rest on the shoulders of Reid Brignac.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
You're probably right
He’s just the type of guy I really want back. Brignac would be good, too, but I’m not sure about taking on a higher salary like Kazmir as well (since that seems to be the rumor). If he’s healthy, it’s OK, but if he turns into the second coming of Bedard, that’s a lot of $$ tied up.
Regardless, if we get our SS of the future, I will probably like it.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Escobar's not happening
even if the brewers were stupid, and they’re not, they couldn’t take on Washburn’s salary without shedding some. If we’re dealing with the Brewers chances are pretty good it’s Hardy coming our way. Maybe someone else to make it sweeter, but forget about Escobar.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
I hope you're wrong.
With how much this is being built up, I want someone more exciting than Hardy.
katal - July 29, 2009
I think they could take on some salary
but Clement, Morrow and Washburn for Escobar is horrible. Hardy is too much rather than not enough.
JetSam - July 29, 2009
Whose perspective are you talking about here?
Also, I don’t think there’s anything about Morrow moving. Pribanic is the other name, no?
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Milwaukee perspective
JetSam - July 29, 2009
GOD DAMN IT SOMETHING HAPPEN :o
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Shhhhhhhhh
people on the left coast are still sleeping, and are blissfully unaware of our anger….and the fact that they have to endure 100 degree heat today
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
You guys are weak.
It’s consistently in the 90’s AND humid out here on the east coast. Though, it must suck not having ac.
levnclf - July 29, 2009
Amen
Tired of all the bitching already…it will be back down to the 70’s next week and everyone will return their shiny new air conditioners/fans.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
please keep this on topic, thanks
bitching about the heat or about people bitching about the heat is going on in the off-topic thread.
pdb - July 29, 2009
Wow! These trade rumors are hotter than Seattle in July!
msb - July 29, 2009
102!
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
104!
Robert - July 29, 2009
Possibly not related
But a veritable bevy of Phillies prospects (SP Carlos Carrasco, C Lou Marson, SS Jason Donald) are scratched from their games as well.
Same deal, or is today just going to be wacky?
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Dave Cameron's just written off all NL teams as possible trade partners for Clement
and thinks that it’s down to one (or more) of four teams.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
I think ruling out all NL teams is a little hasty
After all, Brian Sabean and Omar Minaya are GMs in the NL, who knows what wackiness they could cause
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
And Brian Sabean could use a catcher who can hit
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Kung Fu Buster Posey
abender20 - July 29, 2009
What are the best equivalent blogs - kind of mirror-mirror of LL/USSM/Times - on potential trade partner teams?
I don’t know enough about any kind of TB / Cleveland sort of blogs to see which ones are reliable enough to look for hints. I mean, I can just drag out whatever is in SBNation for them, or their major newspapers, perhaps… but they might not be any better than the comments threads on ESPN or MLBTradeRumors…
Spoomeister - July 29, 2009
SBN has reliable blogs for both Cleveland and Tampa
Do not under any circumstances go to the Cleveland Plain Dealer’s website.
nickjs21 - July 29, 2009
DRaysBay is a really good blog run by R.J. Anderson who attracts retards almost as well a special school.
Good luck fishing for hints. Baseball transactions are very professional compared to say, football, where we knew for months about major transfers e.g. Ronaldo, Tevez, Eto’o before they were concluded. Leaks and ITK people are very hard to come by.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
"Royals - No. Not a Royals kind of player."
Haha.
levnclf - July 29, 2009
Rosenthal:
Goose - July 29, 2009
I was about to post this.
How reliable is Rosenthal?
Also: Morrow and Clement for Jack Wilson!
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Mildly reliable
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
While not perfect, I'd say Rosenthal is considered one of the most reliable public sources out there.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Damn, I wanted Brignac :(
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Very reliable when breaking news, less reliable when dealing with rumors
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Here's the thing with rumors, almost every rumor is legit.
What I mean by that, is the teams have at least discussed the deal being reported. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen. Trades are complicated. Guys like Rosenthal, Gammons, ect. have good source. Sometimes they get used by teams to float rumors that are completely untrue, but for the most part, these deals are at least talked about. That in no way means that the deal is going to happen.
Tyler - July 29, 2009
Lowrie!
Coach Owens - July 29, 2009
Fuck the Red Sox, I don't want them getting anything remotely valuable from us.
Unless it’s a complete and thorough fleecing by us.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Lowrie, Anderson, Hagadone and Bowden!
Coach Owens - July 29, 2009
I still wouldn't completely rule out them of course.
Remember that both Seattle and Baltimore officials denied that a Bedard trade was in the works.
Coach Owens - July 29, 2009
I agree
if you’re talking brewers. It sounds more like extrapolation by him. I don’t believe Z, Melvin or Gord Ash would say something like that.
JetSam - July 29, 2009
One thing is for certain
Jack Z has complete control over this front office. The fact that no leaks have surfaced ~ 12 hours after Clement has been pulled is a testimony to a tightly-ran ship.
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
As much as it may suck that we are in the dark, I'm very happy that this is how it is.
This is how a good corporation.
Robert - July 29, 2009
That is not a sentence.
katal - July 29, 2009
Robert needs a comedy sidekick to finish all of his sentences for him
tootthekazoo - July 29, 2009
Hey-Ohhh!
msb - July 29, 2009
This is how a good corporation runs.
I am thinking of Apple here. Very rarely are there true leaks until days before a product launch and it allows them to always stay ahead of the competition.
Robert - July 29, 2009
Very true
I love it
tootthekazoo - July 29, 2009
And when they do leak they end up dead.
arbeck77 - July 29, 2009
Good point Robert.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
And then ...
the Twins name arises
msb - July 29, 2009
MLBTR shows
FOX reporter Ken Rosenthal states that Cleveland AND Tampa are denying that they are involved in any Clement talks.
tkballer22 - July 29, 2009
Late.
msb - July 29, 2009
I love random Fantasy bloggers
heh.
“Anyone that Seattle trades – using Adam Jones as precedent, I know the Mariners will make a bad move. The current squawk is they’ll deal Jeff Clement and Brandon Morrow. Why? Apparently because they think they have a shot this year, despite their No. 2/3 pitcher (Bedard) just went down with shoulder issues. Chapeau! Seattle. So if they deal either Clement or Morrow, be on top of that. I actually will not be as big on Washburn if he’s dealt. That OF in Seattle helps pitchers out a ton.”
msb - July 29, 2009
that kind of stuff still angers me a little
even though it shouldn’t
Sam Page - July 29, 2009
Well, would it be that hard to do a little research?
If a newspaper is letting you blog from their site?
msb - July 29, 2009
exactly
or, if you’re going to comment on a FO, at least be somewhat current with their moves. The best part is the last sentence.
Sam Page - July 29, 2009
The dude is a "financial reporter by day."
Nuff said.
Nadingo - July 29, 2009
Those last two sentences were the only ones
he should’ve typed.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
I love how the OF he compliments was 2/3 built by Z. (Well, before Saunders at least)
Coach Owens - July 29, 2009
So according to some Pittsburgh writer, the Pirates worked "until late last night" on potential trades
involving Wilson and Sanchez. I know what Dave said about ruling out the NL, but is there any chance that we got one of them?
Coach Owens - July 29, 2009
But where would Clement fit into their plans?
levnclf - July 29, 2009
There's always a chance I guess
but it’s important to remember that the Clement trade is probably not the only trade in the works right now, as we get close to the non-waiver trade deadline; it’s entirely possible that the Pittsburgh writer is right but that the potential trades don’t involve Clement.
pdb - July 29, 2009
I never got why I was supposed to be excited about these guys.
Two win infielders on the wrong side of 30. Their 2010 options seem reasonable. Either of them would obviously be an upgrade, but I guess I would just be more into going younger up the middle.
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
I'm so excited!
And the feeling is not at all tinged with imminent dread as in the past five years!
I love you Jack Z.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Surprise cockpunches are the worst kind of ball tampering.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
The immient dread is no longer there, but possible disappointment still is.
All the eariler talk of Escobar/Brianic/Hardy makes Wilson/Sanchez seem like a buzzkill if it happens.
Goose - July 29, 2009
I've tried not to expect any big returns.
msb - July 29, 2009
Well I would agree with that.
Still, I came to accept that Clement was a goner when he didn’t make the team, and getting a useful piece for Washburn (even as he’s played this year) comes off as a big win for us.
Morrow possibly leaving…whether that’s acceptable or not indeed depends upon the return.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Exactly
This is the same thing I’ve been thinking for about 3 days… Thanks Omerta for writing it so deftly.
A Steamy Day in Cleveland - July 29, 2009
Well, trying to fall asleep was no easy task.
russak - July 29, 2009
Apparently Freddy Sanchez and Jack Wilson read mlbtraderumors.com
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/pirates-rumors-sanchez-wilson-grabow.html
Sam Page - July 29, 2009
Also Phillies after Washburn, but scratched three minor leaguers for Cliff Lee supposedly
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866498/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Wednesday%27s-edition
Sam Page - July 29, 2009
Thank goodness it's a day game today.. Hopefully we hear something relatively soon.
It will be interesting to see if Morrow takes the hill tonight for Tacoma.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
OK it's 9 AM
Get your asses up and make some announcements already, damnit
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS FAGGOT SHIT
TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Are you looking in a mirror?
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson
is a possiblity if it is a deal for major leaguers. That’s according to Churchill. And that would be weird.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
GODDAMMIT I'M AWAKE AND IT'S THE MORNING WHERE THE FUCK IS MY NEWS?
esoteric - July 29, 2009
Doorstep?
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
in the bushes again
JetSam - July 29, 2009
Chris Tillman making his major league debut tonight.
I love how that trade has set the standard in such a bad way. The Phillies and Blue Jays must hate Bavasi right now.
Wilder. - July 29, 2009
I'm driving up to Baltimore with a buddy
to go see it. It’s vs. Greinke too so it should be a good game.
levnclf - July 29, 2009
Look at that team in 2010!
OF – Ich, Gut, Saunders, #4 Langers
IF – Branyan the Canyon/Shelton platoon, Jose Taco Bell, ANYONE at SS, Beltre, Hana-Banana, a few others…
P – King, Bedard, various others…
Notice the HUGE gap in the IF? If this trade doesn’t fill in that gap, I’ll be highly disappointed. Extremely Let Down. In the dumps… to say the least.
COME ON Z!
A Steamy Day in Cleveland - July 29, 2009
Beltre at 3B is wishful thinking as well
CKel - July 29, 2009
Uh, you are aware that Branyan, Beltre, and Bedard are all FA?
Because I’d be real surprised to see two of them resigned, let alone all three
Sportszilla - July 29, 2009
You have also added resignings of two FAs in the IF
argystokes - July 29, 2009
This is a bad post. Many of those players will be gone. Way to pay attention to your team.
Your attempts at jokes are bad and you should feel bad.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
And seriously?
How the fuck does Jose Taco Bell make any sense as a joke? I don’t even know where to start.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
You don't have a gif for this situation?
R.J. Anderson - July 29, 2009
?
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Now make him pop up and botch grounders
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Someone put Joses face on this gif. I'm to lazy.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
If there must be a trade/rosterbation thread
can we at least please keep it on topic?
pdb - July 29, 2009
sure.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
cheers.
pdb - July 29, 2009
Brave new LL
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
But whoever we trade for I plan to make a relevant gif!
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
RIP
calim - July 29, 2009
It must be a Boston fan thinking of Ellsbury
And getting confused
manifestus - July 29, 2009
Because he is fat and Mexican, obviously. Sometimes, Eyebrows, I don't understand the infiniteness of your stupidity.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I am sorry how could I forget?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
I notice a huge gap in the pitching.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Complete games for everyone! And bring me another Mai Tai!
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
Two man rotation. One who will be broken.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Yeah, it's too bad that teams are only allowed one trade per season near the deadlien and aren't allowed to make offseason moves to fill holes
oh wait…
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I wake up hoping for news and..
Damnit..
Well according to Larry Stone, its supposedly not the Indians and Tampa
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
MLBTR IS GOING DOWN NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Teej - July 29, 2009
Because you would suddenly lose so much good information.
Also, it’s working fine.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
We better not be getting Jack Wilson
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
I will fucking punch a newborn baby in the fucking face
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
we're trading him to KC for Yuni and Willie
David Piper - July 29, 2009
But Willies on the Red Sox wish list!
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Three way trade!
greymstreet - July 29, 2009
What if they took
Silva?
manifestus - July 29, 2009
What if Heidi Klum showed up on your doorstep with a briefcase full of money and the keys to a DBS?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
And then proceded to take off her clothes?
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Wait a minute
Did we just trade Carlos Silva?
Omerta - July 29, 2009
CONFIRMED!!!
Stone says the Tribe is not in the deal. Which is ok, so long as Tampa remains in it…
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Late
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
No
tait644 - July 29, 2009
NO
July 29, 2009 at 8:37 AM
FOX: indians, Rays not involved in Clement deal
Posted by Larry Stone
It is 9:37. You are an hour late.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
No
Stone just updated that to add his own confirmation that Cleveland is out.
Hence, CONFIRMED in nice big letters…
tait644 - July 29, 2009
STC
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Stone was quoting Fox an hour ago.
Calm down.
Teej - July 29, 2009
We had better hear by 10 a.m. or or or or
calim - July 29, 2009
I'll just keep waiting, I guess
calim - July 29, 2009
Hmmm
Larry Stone:
Geoff Baker:
Goose - July 29, 2009
I think it's safe to say Baker's right
There’s just no way Z doesn’t get SOMETHING for him at this point
calim - July 29, 2009
If Halladay gets pulled from his start today
in order to don an Angels’ cap that’s going to put a temporaray downer on this whole affair.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
I'm thinking Halladay stays
tait644 - July 29, 2009
'Specially because I'm going today. I don't want to sit out in 100+ weather to see effing Cecil.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Wow I really managed to mangle that sentence didn't I.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Fuck the Angles in the ass with Ichiro's bat
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Or the Angels, even.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
why yes. The collapse and the trade has me a little agitated
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Let Branyan do it
calim - July 29, 2009
Are you kidding?
the price being asked I think I’d rather he go to the Angels than anywhere else. He’s only got one more year under contract and Aybar, Weaver, Woods and whoever else… that’s a lot of marginal wins right there.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Ed Price Twitter
Source: #Pirates getting Jeff Clement from #Mariners. Other Seattle minor-leaguers involved. Could be for a P (Duke?) or a 3-team deal.
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Who is Ed Price?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Who's Ed Price?
Goose - July 29, 2009
AOL Fanhouse guy
broke…the Holliday story last year I think?
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
I don't want anything Pitts is offering
except for Snell.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
I'd rather have Duke than Snell
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Not I.
Goose - July 29, 2009
And who is Ed Price?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Is the Price right?
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
Why do the Pirates want Clement?
That org is so fucked
calim - July 29, 2009
To play 1st?
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Ryan Doumit's coming home!!!!
msb - July 29, 2009
Oh please!
Oh please! Oh please! Oh please!
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Now from Pittsburgh Gazette columnist Kovacevic
#Pirates Wilson looks like he’s been traded to Seattle
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Link
Here
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
My razor is ready.
russak - July 29, 2009
The armor that was my faith in Zduriencik?
Chinked…
tait644 - July 29, 2009
We don't know exactly what we're getting yet.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
This? This is what I waited all night for?
Jack fucking Wilson?
esoteric - July 29, 2009
Sigh.
Goose - July 29, 2009
This is agonizing.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Kovacevic again
#Pirates trade Wilson and Ian Snell for Jeff Clement,Ronny Cedeno, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, Nathan Adcock
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
WHAT
marc w - July 29, 2009
I MEAN.... WHAT
marc w - July 29, 2009
EXCUSE ME.... WHAT?
marc w - July 29, 2009
There's no way, right?
Absolutely no way
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
CAN'T BE. Can't be.
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
CANNOT BE.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
God I hope not
abender20 - July 29, 2009
This didn't happen
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Woa.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Wha...why so many...
Omerta - July 29, 2009
This better be fucking bullshit.
russak - July 29, 2009
Lies.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
No.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
WHAT
JY - July 29, 2009
If true, yikes.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
That would be waaaaaay too much
Take out Lorin and I’m ok with it though
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Yeah; it HAS to be one of Pribanic/Lorin. Not both.
marc w - July 29, 2009
Adcock too?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
WHAT!!!!
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Please link the Twitters if you are going to post rumors
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
The previous link was updated is all
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Hm
apologies, MD. Didn’t update the first time I refreshed it
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Wrong.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
This sure seems a steep price for two out of favor players at first glance.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
I thought this was supposed to be a 5-player deal?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Churchill changed it to "up to seven" in his last update
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I call bullshit
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
It's a little late for that.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Wilson channeled Sojo and his ever-famous hit.
Attractive Nuisance - July 29, 2009
We don't know what this deal is yet
Don’t go jumping off cliffs.
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Already gone.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Jumping took too long
I just drove straight off.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
Faaaaaaaaaallllllliiiinnnngggg
esoteric - July 29, 2009
And I'm freeeeee
freee faaalin
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
PIRATES!
GAH!
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Well so much for "First off, let's eliminate the entire National League"
Goose - July 29, 2009
Right now my hope is that Jack Z has scouted these guys and has decided in his infinite wisdom that they'll never amount to much.
And I do like Snell a lot. But man…that’s a lot to give up for Wilson and Snell.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
This doesn't pass my smell test at all
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
There's got to be a player missing, right?
calim - July 29, 2009
What about your Snell test?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Does it even work if we're getting Zack Duke in return?
Or does this sound like a 3-way trade
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
At least it would make Churchill wrong!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I think you mean Churchili...
PositivePaul - July 29, 2009
The last letter could be a capital I
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Well
Perhaps when Philly got involved in talks for Lee, it screwed up our chances with Tampa. And this is the best Jack could do for Clement.
But damn, that sure is a buzzkill.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
It's not like he HAD to deal Clement
He has to deal Washburn. Clement he could wait on
calim - July 29, 2009
My speculation.
Mariners get: Ian Snell and Ryan Doumit.
Pirates Get: Jeff Clement Aaron Pribanic.
Maybe?
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Absolutely not
abender20 - July 29, 2009
;)
Yessir.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
If this is true, at least we finally got a major league shortstop.
And we still have some trading chips. But that is a lot to give up.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
I guess you could call him that
But I’m not very excited in a 31 year-old SS with a couple of years left on his deal.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Yeah, me neither.
Goose - July 29, 2009
he's pretty expensive as well, isn't he?
Andrew Martin - July 29, 2009
Wilson's signed through 09
With a 8.4M club option for 10 (600k buyout).
Making 7.25M this year.
Either he’s a rental player (confused) or we’re about to open up the pocketbooks to keep him around.
Pirates Contracts
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
Maybe Pittsburgh eats his contract or sends us some money
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I hope that's the case
But their payroll is less than half of ours, and they just tried to offer Sanchez and Wilson lowball contracts to buy out their 2010 option years. Doesn’t seem like the kind of team that’s eager to eat any cash.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
they have been dumping payroll
Snell would fit with that too, as he is not cheap and flat out stated he doesn’t want to pitch for them
JetSam - July 29, 2009
Not wisconsin rotation, Clinton Iowa now. Small nit.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Whoops
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Understandable.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
With this much talent going to P-burgh
There’s got to be some cash coming back
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Yay cash!!
tait644 - July 29, 2009
To me
It would seem strange if PIT was the one doling out the cash
calim - July 29, 2009
Maybe Pitt is throwing in someone else?
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
Boy 'm glad I don't keep guns in the house
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Could this be a Pirates, Mariner, Tampa threesome?
I just had it in my head we were going to get Brignac somehow.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Well I understand why
because that would be fucking awesome.
This, well…this is something else.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
The aqueous trio?
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
Wow that is quite awesome I didn't even notice.
Rec for you sir.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
It would also be 'one of Adcock, Pribanic, and Lorin'?
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
*could
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Yeah, definitely.
If they’re covering 100% of Wilson’s salary THEN maybe two of ’em.
marc w - July 29, 2009
That would make much more sense.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
I remember thinking one of Tillman/Butler made sense.
I was so wrong it hurt.
JY - July 29, 2009
Please not Lorin.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
And down goes USSM.
Goose - July 29, 2009
USSM killed. What the fuck
Double06 - July 29, 2009
This seems mighty confusing to me
Robert - July 29, 2009
Bye USSM.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Well, what a fucking disappointment this could* turn out be.
*Still holding out some hope!
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Hoping is the first step towards disappointment.
JY - July 29, 2009
Believe me it'll never happen again.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
You'd think we would of learned by now.
God we’re fucking stupid.
Goose - July 29, 2009
From everything I can tell, this trade is happening as stated
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Sigh
Goose - July 29, 2009
Cool.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
And there goes the hope.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
I'm not even excited about Snell anymore...
tait644 - July 29, 2009
WHAT
marc w - July 29, 2009
I am so much less excited than I thought I would be
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Snell is good!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Ugh
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
USSM
still works for me lol
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
Rosenthal
There has to be more to this, right?
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Nope.
ESPN is saying that’s the whole deal.
Fear - July 29, 2009
What the fuck
abender20 - July 29, 2009
And Timmy K. loves it.
From the M’s side.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Tim Kurkjian can derelicte my balls
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Wilson is a professional hitter
and a great teammate.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Gritty veteran?
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
And he will rival Shelton in the Homely sweepstakes.
msb - July 29, 2009
I thought we'd go younger at SS
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Hahahhaha Clement announced as a 1B, now that's funny
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
That sure seems like a lot of talent to give up for Wilson and Snell.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
What...the...fuck.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Well.. This sucks.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Didn't Churchill say we were going to like this trade?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I guess he was wrong
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Churchill either has bad info or is a flaming idiot
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Also said the pitchers are "interesting" but they are "ranked very low" in the system
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
I liked Pribanec...sigh.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Still trying to get my head around this...this is not happening. NOT HAPPENING.
WTF Z?
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
And Graham loses all current Mariner players on his jerseys at once.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Ouch.
marc w - July 29, 2009
This makes it all worth while
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Mariners can be Pirates, YAR!!!!
PositivePaul - July 29, 2009
Could this be some kind of prelude to another deal?
If we got Wilson on the cheap in order to add some payroll somewhere or something?
calim - July 29, 2009
For the love of fuck it had better be.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Seconded.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
We didn't give anything up payroll wise
Clement making 400k. Cedeno making 820k. Minor leaguers making effectively nothing.
Wilson making several mil over the rest of the season. Snell owed a few mil this year, a few mil next year. Both have expensive team options looming at the end of their runs.
We took on salary here.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
Churchill is sayin cash is changing hands too
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Makes my stomach less queasy
But it still doesn’t free up any of our payroll. Even if the Pirates eat the entirety of the Snell and Wilson contracts, we knock what – a million and change off our books this year, with over $10 million owed next year (assuming we pick up the team option on Wilson)? That’s a big commitment to make…
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
But a massive amount of money is coming off the books and we weren't clearing payroll for next year through trade anyways.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
This makes me more sure we'll move Washburn by the end of the week
calim - July 29, 2009
Ugh, come on
qrsouther - July 29, 2009
Well then...Lets hope Washburn nets us something better!
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
We just traded for Jack Wilson and Ian Snell
Washburn isn’t going anywhere
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
One can hope.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Buyers!
Goose - July 29, 2009
I don't get it.
Adding Wilson at this point, at that price…
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Let's be honest here, Snell and Wilson are a good return
The only thing I don’t like is the quantity of our single-A arms in the trade
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
I thought we'd go younger at SS
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Still could
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Absolutely
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I am glad I get to talk about how ugly Jack Wilson is for a year and a half
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
He looks like how I imagine 19th century middle infielders
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
He if Jack Wilson is having a year where he hits he's an all star!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Not on a team with other players
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
He once OPSed close to .800!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Washburn for Aybar
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Not sure if they could get Aybar for two months of Wash.
Maybe Sean Rodriguez and a minor piece like Jayson Miller.
Zu Long - July 29, 2009
This basically kills our single-A pitching depth
yeah Pribanic, Lorin and Adcock were behind JC Ramirez and Pineda, but that’s a ton of decent prospects to give up
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
That's the upside, I guess.. At least they are Single-A arms.
A lot can happen with them..
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
This is exactly how I feel. We got good players back. And a lot of those guys may not pan out.
But the Pirates seem likely to have at least one of those guys pan out.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
And even though Clement is liked, he was a busting prospect
Poochie - July 29, 2009
And Cedeno is just busted...
manyoso - July 29, 2009
Never had enough to talent to bust
calim - July 29, 2009
Tell that to Cubs fans.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
He's going to be 26 this year and is basically a DH.
I think the single-a arms were the prize for Pittsburgh here honestly.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Lorin and Pribanic both going makes me sad
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Still could give Konerko/Morneau like upside if he stays healthy
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Call me disappointed.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
FETT'S GIF, NOW
JY - July 29, 2009
Never more appropriate.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
So Lorin, Pribanic, and Adcock aren't like sure-thing prospects.
It seems like a lot, yeah. But it’s not like we just traded a bunch of blue-chippers or anything.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
We had very little pitching. Most of which in the low minros, now pretty much barren.
russak - July 29, 2009
That's the main problem I have with this.
JY - July 29, 2009
Additionally...
I could handle it if we were going for a shortstop who was a long-term solution, but Jack Wilson? Really?
JY - July 29, 2009
Low minors depth is not difficult to restock though
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Exactly
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
WTF is that deal!???!
I thought we were sellers.
ARock - July 29, 2009
This isn't a 2009 addition
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Well it is but that's not its intended purpose
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
So Jack Wilson is the SS for 2010?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Probably?
And Snell is here for a while if he recovers what he lost.
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Hopefully he was just feeling suicidal because, well, Pittsburgh.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
But going from Pittsburgh to Indy shouldn't make you that much happier.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Hey my mom's side of the family happens to be from India-no-place.
Seriously though, Snell was crushing down in AAA. He just needed to get out of whatever atmosphere in Pittsburgh was poisoning him.
I’m actually really pleased to have Snell. I think we paid too much, but then maybe I’m overvaluing young prospects.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
Wilson has a 2010 option
Why did we trade for one year of Wilson?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Because he's good?
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Roughly average, I guess
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I'm sure it's a pre-cursor to re-signing Joel Pineiro
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Not really
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
If he's healthy he's worth 2.5-3 wins
Poochie - July 29, 2009
If his defense doesn't fall off, and "a bit above average" isn't good.
I feel like what I’m saying makes it sound like I dislike this trade more than I actually do.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
nice defense
JetSam - July 29, 2009
I don't know what to think!
I need someone to tell me who won this deal, and they need to tell me now!
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Yes, I have no clue who these people are.
ARock - July 29, 2009
Wilson - how does he compare to Brignac?
ARock - July 29, 2009
Unfavorably.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Old
calim - July 29, 2009
In what way?
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
He's certainly more attractive
Poochie - July 29, 2009
The Langston trade lives on!
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
YEAH FUCK Z HANG HIM REAL GOOD
Robert - July 29, 2009
How long before Dave shows up here to break this thing down as I am sure the USSM servers have caught fire
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I haven't heard from him yet today
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I figured Graham would be the one to off himself
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Dave is awake now
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Graham is alive.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Thank heavens
Poochie - July 29, 2009
BRETT LORIN!
No, no, no, no!
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
What happened to Snell for Wlad? Why is this happening to us?
russak - July 29, 2009
I am glad that it's Snell we got back and not Duke.
Goose - July 29, 2009
I expected so much better from Z
Hugeee let down.
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
This isn't the huge trade chip that Z had in play..
Clement was a lost cause at AAA and had no future with the organization, Cedeno – nuff said, and a host of Single-A arms for a starting SS and a 27-year-old major league starting pitcher.
It’s not like we mortgaged the future or anything.. Single-A arms are easily replaced.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
OK, after cooling down a bit, I like this trade a little more
I had forgotten that Snell has so much team control left and is reasonably cheap.
Now let’s just hope he’s actually still good.
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
That Triple-A ERA is nice and shiny.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
So is his 17 (?) strikeout performance..
Snell is really pretty good..
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
He is
His ML peripherals were solid and his MiL numbers were phenomenal
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Most of us were vastly overvaluing Clement's value
Robert - July 29, 2009
Not me!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
It's almost like instead of Graham baiting we were actually giving a very accurate baseball analysis
Robert - July 29, 2009
I would never presume to do so with prospects
But Clement was done here, is aging, and has injury problems
Poochie - July 29, 2009
And his uniform was too tight.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It showed his nice tight ass though.
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
Ahahahaha
Ian Snell, Seattle Mariner
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Is it fair to say we still haven't solved our SS problem?
Long-term?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Very fair.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
It's pretty well patched over for now
Plus Franklin and Noriega are fun
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Juan Diaz might be up before that.
JY - July 29, 2009
I'm guessing that Triunfel is now projected at 2B?
bamfor - July 29, 2009
I thought people were pegging him to be a 3B.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Do we at least get to see Wilson tonight?
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
I doubt he'd get here for a 1:40 start
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
He's coming from San Franciso, right?
So, it’s possible.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Oh.
Well, that changes things.
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
Day game.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Woodward at short?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
They could already have him on a flight for all we know
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Any possibility
that Washburn now goes for pitching prospects instead of a SS?
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
Here's the thing
You can’t view this as a last-ditch bid to contend in 2009. This is all about setting us up for 2010. GMZ clearly likes this team as constituted and doesn’t want to tear it apart. And who can blame him? The clubhouse under Wakamatsu is apparently as good as it gets.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the FO pursue an unlikely tack: keep the core players with the team. Re-sign Washburn, Beltre, Branyan – hoping they’ll feel so good about the team that they’ll come at a discount – fix the gaping holes (SS), and continue to win with pitching, defense, and timely hitting.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
But it's sort of a bid to contend this year.
Otherwise, why get Wilson?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
That's contingent on an awful lot of things to go right.
JY - July 29, 2009
Official release:
Pirates acquire five players from Seattle in deal for Jack Wilson and Ian Snell
The Pittsburgh Pirates today announced that they have acquired first baseman Jeff Clement, shortstop Ronny Cedeno and right-handed pitchers Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin and Nathan Adcock from the Seattle Mariners organization in exchange for shortstop Jack Wilson and right-handed pitcher Ian Snell. The announcement was made by Pirates Senior Vice President, General Manager Neal Huntington.
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
I'm not a fan of trades that involve 5 of our guys.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
I, uh, like this.
Sorry guys.
Garces - July 29, 2009
JUDAS!!!
tait644 - July 29, 2009
I'm kind of with you.
We got the two best players in the trade.
Of course, in 3 years, this may look silly.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I'm not wild about it but I don't think it's awful
People generally just tend to be a little overprotective of our prospects.
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I just don't like Wilson very much.
He’s older, he doesn’t hit, and he’s moving to the AL and Safeco. I don’t see how he is much more than a marginal addition.
And is Pitts giving us any cash?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Wilson is a two-three win player.
He’s a good stopgap
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I would bes surprised if he is closer to three wins than two next season
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Maybe he's an Ichiro in terms of defying aging curves. His UZR range is insanity.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I mean sure it's possible but I think it's honest to call him a solidly league average player.
And he’s being paid like it next season, so it’s not a bad contract or anything.
Eh, I don’t know. I don’t like it but I don’t hate it.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I'm in complete agreement. I would have preferred to see the team get someone like Brignac or Hardy,
but it’s hard to argue with Snell and Wilson as long as the Pirates eat some of the money.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I could still argue with it.
I’m not going to though, because whatever. It’s not bad.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I hope you all like one-run games.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
They sure are more fun than blowouts.
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
I do when we win
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Samesies!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
He was worth 2.6 wins in 2007
1.5 in half a season last year
and is on pace to be worth 3 this year
That’s a decent three years of play
Poochie - July 29, 2009
He's also a 31 year old SS whose value is almost entirely in his defense.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Someday I'd kinda like a shortstop who can hit the ball.
Goose - July 29, 2009
A run is a run is a run.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
There aren't a lot of those and value is value.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
This is a valid point
But on a one year deal with Pitt picking up some of the tab, I think you have to like it
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I don't like it, but I don't hate it.
I’m glad we got Snell and I’m glad we have a SS but I feel like we gave up too much.
And this is also where I admit that I do not like and have never liked Jack Wilson.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Yes I would have like to have gotten one more player back
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Or just not given them Lorin.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Question becomes how much
if it’s like $3.5M, I think I’m pretty OK with this
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I must have something cleared up for me
Do we have Jack Wilson for next year as well? Because I’m hearing different things about him having an option. Is he just guaranteed to take it?
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
If we exercise his option
Which of course we will, barring injury.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
He is ours for 2010 provided we don't trade him
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Not me!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
It's not a bad trade per se
I just think we gave one too many of Pribanic/Lorin.
That and it’s a huge fucking anti-climax.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Ian Snell
“Snell was demoted to AAA-Indianapolis Indians on June 24, per his request, after publicizing his battle with depression and contemplating suicide.”
Anyone know the latest on his condition?
ImaginaryRomances - July 29, 2009
Yeah I was just about to highlight that.
Obviously Z believes it to be a non-issue…
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Steve Hecht?
msb - July 29, 2009
Hopefully he does whatever Greinke did.
ImaginaryRomances - July 29, 2009
Getting away from the Pirates can only be good for him
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
And moving to Seattle!
So sunny!
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
It is right now!
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
I dunno, PNC is pretty and he gets to hit
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Seeing Bucs fans happy makes me nauseous.
russak - July 29, 2009
I mind that less than the idea that we may have been jobbed by the GM of the Pirates.
JY - July 29, 2009
Isn't Huntington supposed to be semi-functional?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
He has the pedigree, yes. A few questionable moves so far in his tenure, but it's probably a little early to judge.
He’s a smart dude.
Teej - July 29, 2009
So, really, what craters of dumbness are left in MLB front offices?
KC, Washington (at least for now), Houston…
Who else? The White Sox? Philly?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Mets
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Is Minaya awful at dealing with players
or just the media?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
He just swapped Church for Frenchy.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Yeah, I forgot about that.
Paying Rodriguez that much was a bad move, and they came out pretty poorly in the Putz trade.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
And then there's the Oliver Perez deal.
- The Luis Castillo deal (he’s doing well so far this season, but still: a ridiculous overpay.
- The failure to build any bench depth whatsoever.
etc.etc.
And never forget: this is the man who traded Sizemore, Phillips and Lee for half a season of Bartolo Colon. Spare me your “they had to go for it! contraction!” arguments. That was off the table at the time he made the trade. Omar’s just a putz.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
And a complete and total inability to build a bullpen.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
The White Sox aren't dumb, they're just weirdly inconsistent.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Yeah, the White Sox somehow cobble together good teams.
But they depend on guys like Jermaine Dye and Matt Thornton becoming quality players.
It’s irritating.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
There's a case to be made that the White Sox are good at finding players with fixable flaws and making them good.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Quentin!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Beat me to it.
Hey, was it you I was talking about this with in the other thread last night?
esoteric - July 29, 2009
Probably.
I still don’t think he’s good, but he’s made some good moves and has his talents.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Kenny Williams is underrated as a GM.
Not great by any means, but a better scout than people think — he’s good at targeting undervalued/flawed players and slotting them into Ozzie’s insanity. And at the end of the day outcomes have to matter for something.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
He also traded Swisher away for Wilson Betamit
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Everyone on the Southside knows that Ozzie was behind that deal - he HATED Swisher, and the feeling was mutual.
Doesn’t mean that Williams had to assent — or get so little back for him — but Tony La Russa’s been pulling the same stunts for years in St. Louis as well (e.g. the Fangraphs article today).
Agreed though: that’s the biggest black mark on his recent record. I don’t think that was a failure of scouting, though, so much as it was one of personalities.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
salary and personality played a role
JetSam - July 29, 2009
I'm sure Swisher's a real clubhouse cancer.
Teej - July 29, 2009
Actually, the stories out of the southside here were more interesting and complex than that.
Swisher irked Ozzie immensely in several ways:
1.) His tendency to be jovial and happy-go-lucky even when the White Sox were in the crapper (which they were for much of 2008, despite limping into the playoffs at the last second) INFURIATED Guillen. Trust me, if you’re familiar at all with the way Guillen wants his team to work, you understand how this clash can and would be fatal.
2.) The spectacularly poor production didn’t help at all, especially when combined with said joviality. Guillen came this close to saying in the press that it seemed like Swisher didn’t care.
3.) When Swisher was finally benched late in the season (justifiably, given his performance thus far) he began to sulk pretty openly.
4.) As a side note, apparently Swisher’s style wasn’t all that popular in the clubhouse either. From all reports, the whole outgoing wacky clown schtick clashed badly with the personalities of the team’s established leaders, quieter guys like Thome and Buerhle and Dye. Incidentally I would love to have seen how Swisher got along with Pierzynski.
Again, we all know that Swisher was/is better than his numbers in 2009 — that’s why he’s happily ensconced in the Yankees outfield and is heading to the playoffs — but it was this combination of factors that made his exeunt inevitable. Shouldn’t have had to end like that, and lord knows the Sox got 100% jobbed on the exchange, but there you have it.
I don’t doubt that Kenny Williams still thought that Swisher was a good player, but his hand was forced by Ozzie’s hatred of him, his own bad behavior, his relative unpopularity with the players, and his poor performance. A perfect storm leading to a terrible trade.
esoteric - July 29, 2009
So I see Jarrod is still here.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Yeah, we're not done
Wlad, the choke of 1B/DH in Tacoma and other pieces are still around, and of course Morrow could move now that we have Snell, so Jack’s not done
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Yeah, Z probably has one or two more trades in him.
So we should probably wait and evaluate after it’s all over.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
There's still a shoe left to drop
Wlad and Wash in the least, if every M’s writer/blogger is to be believed
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
We have to wait for Lee/Halladay to be resolved
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I will miss Lorin. Not really to upset about anyone else.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
This looks alright to me. It's not like Clement had any place with the Mariners at this point, and I'm not going to be heartbroken over Cedeno
Are the 3 pitching prospects anything special?
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
I think its the 3 pitching prospect part that makes some feel uneasy about it.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
Lorin and Pribanic were/are legitimate prospects but nothing special
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Yeah I thought Lorin might be something interesting as his name sounded familiar
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Guess that depends on who you talk to..
I tend to think that the volatile nature of single-A arms makes them expendable – especially when we are getting a major league caliber starting pitcher back in the deal.
Though I am sure there are many different viewpoints on that.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Ronny :)edeno
You helped, Ronny!
calim - July 29, 2009
Ce:Deno!
bamfor - July 29, 2009
Snell is 27 already?
Huh, I thought he was younger than that……
Goose - July 29, 2009
So who is going to the Pirates SBN page to post the Cedeno danger chart?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
And tell them about :(edeño
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
It's an overpay
I’ll post this on USSM if it ever comes back to life, but the whole point of targeting a guy like Snell is that he should be fairly low cost to acquire. This isn’t a fairly low cost.
davidcameron - July 29, 2009
You could put it on fangraphs:)
greymstreet - July 29, 2009
This is reminiscent of the Bavasi era
In that it looks like the Mariners targeted a guy they liked and gave up what they needed to to get him. If the front office’s valuation of Snell is accurate, then it should work out, but it’s certainly not the value acquisition one would hope for.
Nadingo - July 29, 2009
Let's not go nuts
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I don't see it.
They wanted a shortstop. Perhaps the cost for Brignac/Hardy/Escobar was way too high for them to stomach, and this was a reasonable fallback option. I highly doubt that Jack Wilson was at the top of the M’s target list.
Teej - July 29, 2009
We could always give the Brewers Wilson + stuff for Hardy!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Stop teasing me
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Escobar needs a veteran to take him under his wing.
Teej - July 29, 2009
You're a dick
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I was thinking about Snell, rather than Wilson
I’m not trying to say GMZ = Bavasi, but it just looked like a similar kind of move. When is a buy-low guy not a buy-low guy? When you decide that you have to have him. I admit it’s just a random guess on my part, but it’s hard to explain why they would overpay for a guy who has fallen so out of favor with his club.
Nadingo - July 29, 2009
Well, for one,
Snell is the exact same situation as Clement, except Snell has proven himself at the MLB level before
Matthew - July 29, 2009
It’s always an overpay when you are acquiring major league-ready pitching.
This is a good deal for the Mariners.
Toxicadam - July 29, 2009
Logic:
Everyone gets ripped off when they get MLB-ready pitchers. Therefore, overpaying for an MLB-ready pitcher is ok.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Bad Logic
tait644 - July 29, 2009
That was the point.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Also
subject line
calim - July 29, 2009
This always bothers me.
If everyone in baseball thinks they need pitching, then they’re missing the point. If all the teams you’re facing have the same “problems” with their pitching staff, it’s not really a problem, because everyone’s in the same boat.
Teej - July 29, 2009
This is why I don't like it.
Wilson falls into the same category for me; he was a nice second option at SS because his cost should have been low.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Current minor league stats
Just a quick look at recent AAA stats.
Date OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO
Totals 2 2 0.96 0 37.1 28 4 13 47
Stripesjr - July 29, 2009
Snell?
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Oh, nevermind, none of the pitchers we gave up are in AAA are they
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Yeah
K/9: 11.3
BB/9: 3.1
Averaging 6.1 innings over 6 starts. (I don’t know where to get the good stats for the minors.)
yuniform - July 29, 2009
He's also doing this as a 27 year old.
It’s not like he’s a prospect dominating AAA.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Yeah, but it means he should be in the majors.
He’s not a AAAA pitcher. He just was stuck in a bad situation.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson is awesome at defense.
So there’s that.
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
And he hits over 200!
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Not JJ Hardy awesome
And that bat isn’t going to be pretty in Safeco…
tait644 - July 29, 2009
And did we mention he's 31?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Acquiring 31 year olds for 1 year isn't a huge deal
Hating Jack Wilson is a bizarre thing to do, especially if Pitt are paying for him
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
I guess my point is that we still have long-term SS issues.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
There's still a fair amount of time to fix them though, and this team can obviously compete next season.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Which will be sorted out eventually I imagine
For now we don’t have a 2010 shortstop issue and we’ll probably be contending
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
thank you Z
All I wanted was a SS instead of the .170ish BA we had yesterday. This was not a bad deal at all. And if those three prospects do average, then we’re still looking at a fair deal.
A Steamy Day in Cleveland - July 29, 2009
Yeah because Jack Wilson is an awesome hitter
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Almost an all white infield!
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
We should get rid of that one Venezuelan fucker we still have starting
(note to GMZ – I will quit the Mariners for a long time if this happens)
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Not that GMZ would care but holy fuck would I be sad if they traded him
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I like him, even better without Yuni on the team
The biggest thing that bothered me was having all those freaking hackers on the team. Look how much better we are with plate discipline! (mostly sarcasm!)
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
And no, plate discipline is not my code for white guys.
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
Why is that mostly sarcasm?
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Because we have plate discipline combined with guys who can't hit now
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Which I guess was better than Ronny and Yuni who combined no plate discipline with an inability to hit as well
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Productive outs? I don't know. But yeah, pitch counts and no bat
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
Better than what we had.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Matthew points out that Chris Snelling also plays for the Pirates
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
I heard Snell was depressed because everyone thought he was Australian.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It's like we have two little retarded babies
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Oh so cute.
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
I actually liked Snelling
Poochie - July 29, 2009
All your jerseys belong to Pittsburgh!
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Straight cash, homey
abender20 - July 29, 2009
We'd better trade Washburn and it'd better make up for this.
Goose - July 29, 2009
We better trade Wilson and make up for this.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Apparently Tim Kurkjian mentioned something about this possibly being part of a bigger deal?
I didn’t see it, but I don’t doubt it.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
He didn't say anything specific.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I kinda wish I was still sleeping.
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
So I guess buying an Ackley jersey on August 18th would be bad news
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Knee blowout +trade.
Yes
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
How about a Silva jersey?
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
Well that was ... pretty damn boring
After all the buildup.
manifestus - July 29, 2009
At least we didn't give up Pineda/Ramirez.
russak - July 29, 2009
That would have been fucking awful
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
There's still time!
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Phillies are on the verge of getting Cliff Lee.
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
There's the domino that we need to fall... Then Wash becomes the best lefty out there.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Why the fuck wasn't CE:DEN:O pulled last night?
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Because nobody actually cares about him
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Infact, he's batting 9th and playing SS for us today.
MFAN - July 29, 2009
He could play today for the M's in a Pirates uni and no one would care.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
We're just going to bat RRS there instead
Same production level
calim - July 29, 2009
We did >:(
Poochie - July 29, 2009
.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
I wanted him to be good mostly because fuck the Cubs
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Preach it brotha
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Hell yeah.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Same value injured or healthy.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
The Pirates didn't care that much if he got injured.
Also, we couldn’t without being left in a very bad position.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Maybe Z only this morning convinced them to take Ronny off our hands
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
I'm kinda surprised at everyone saying that this is anticlimactic
We just patched the shortstop and SP holes next year
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Yeah I'm somewhat happy with this
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Not unhappy...
Just curious to know what else is in the mix as far as trades go…I’d be shocked if we’re done now.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
That's my thinking too...
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
Snell is fine
But Wilson is a pretty shoddy patch.
Not even Mighty Putty.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
How the hell is Wilson a shoddy patch?
Poochie - July 29, 2009
ZiPS
gives Wilson a .294 wOBA for the rest of the year. Not sure how much that would drop moving to the AL and Safeco. Is .280 too low? Cedeno’s projected wOBA? .284. Can Wison’s glove save that many runs to make more than a marginal improvement?
I guess I was also hoping to have a long-term answer at SS out of this whole thing.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
What Graham said, and what I said earlier
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I'm pretty sure this is inaccurate.
seattlesundevil - July 29, 2009
He's a league average shortstop
He’s a pretty huge upgrade on the 2009 team, probably on the order of 3 wins
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
What I don't like about the "3 win upgrade" talk..
Yes he’s a pretty substantial upgrade over Cedeno, but he had been performing below replacement level this season. Doesn’t the whole concept of replacement level state that we should value Wilson based on what he can provide us above replacement level, rather than above Cedeno?
Or would this year be some sort of exception due to the cupboards being extremely bare at SS?
CKel - July 29, 2009
Cedeno is our starting SS
any upgrade is based on how much better he is than Ronny, not how much better he is relative to any arbitrary point
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
If you want to know what the upgrade is for the team, then you have to consider the performance level Wilson is replacing.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I'm saying
If Cedeno was performing below replacement level, what stopped GMZ from going out and acquiring a replacement level SS before this trade ever happened? Was it simply the hope that Cedeno would improve? Or is the replacement level being based on years past and the only freely available talent at SS this year actually graded out as being below replacement level?
CKel - July 29, 2009
Cedeno is replacement level
Poochie - July 29, 2009
He hasn't been this year, performance wise
CKel - July 29, 2009
There's no way he's actually a .170 hitter
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Haha point taken.
Thanks for the discussion, I wasn’t sure if we were all assuming Cedeno to return to replacement level
CKel - July 29, 2009
Replacement level is fine as a concept, but it shouldn't be taken nearly as literally as people do.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
People like to get overhyped and disappointed.
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
Potentially
Snell is far from a guarantee.
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I'm pretty high on Ian Snell right now
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Other than the fact that he's bat shit crazy, he's a very good pitcher.
Tyler - July 29, 2009
Works for Greinke.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Well that characterization sounds downright uncharitable.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Probably is.
Tyler - July 29, 2009
Someone who educates little kids for a living should not be talking about mental diseases like this.
For shame.
R.J. Anderson - July 29, 2009
Go to rehab
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I'm excited to have him but you can't just completely write off peripherals that have declined that bad
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I was only excited about him being traded for something like Wlad.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I'm not writing them off but I think he'll end up as a servicable back of the rotation guy here
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Thank goodness he has taken over AAA
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
If he hadn't annihilated AAA I wouldn't be nearly as happy
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Samesies!
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Quick go buy a jersey.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
A lot people are melodramatic
Robert - July 29, 2009
Everyone that's talking?
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
It's anticlimactic because I was hoping for the holes to be patched by Brignac/Kazmir.
Honestly, I like the two acquisitions we ended up with but I was decidedly underwhelmed.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Hmm
This is hardly statistical, just a way to think about it that makes me less queasy…
We traded Betancourt for an A-ball pitcher and a AA-ball pitcher. That’s roughly equivalent to 3 A-ball pitchers, so it’s slightly the same as trading Betancourt, Clement, :(edeno for Wilson and Snell. That sounds a lot better, given that Betancourt is a known (worthless) quantity.
I don’t think we’ll ever give up 5 players in a trade again without evoking nervous recollections of the Bedard deal. It’s become an unlucky number methinks.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
If you're gonna think about it that way might as well factor in Souza and Hannahan
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Also, this doesn't sound right.
“We traded Betancourt for an A-ball pitcher and a AA-ball pitcher. That’s roughly equivalent to 3 A-ball pitchers.”
I don’t think this is the case.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Like I said, hardly statistical
But how many guys perform at A-ball and fizzle out at AA? Roughly half? Figure one of the three we gave up doesn’t pan out at that level, and we’re more or less in the same boat.
Suppose I could have looked up the numbers for the 5 guys in question.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
Prospect busts aren't stochastic
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Has anyone seen this little gem from Ian Snell?
In an interview with ESPN 1250’s Ken Laird, Pirate pitcher Ian Snell was asked about his off-season plans. Laird asked if Snell planned on staying around the city.
Snell’s response?
“I would never be caught living in Pittsburgh. It’s not my type of city.”
He’s got character! I like that.
ImaginaryRomances - July 29, 2009
Haha him and Ichiro can talk about their least favorite cities.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
He prefers rain and heroin
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
"Character" or "is a total dick that's too stupid to pick his battles"?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Everyone else gets to pick where they live, why can't Snell?
If he could’ve turned his dig about Pittsburgh into a metaphor about a bowling date, everyone would love him.
Snell: good in AAA, hates Pittsburgh, lacks tact.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
If a Mariner went on the radio and was too stupid to know better than to insult the city it would piss me off.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
x
I have friends who spent a summer doing an internship in Pittsburgh and said they were pleasantly surprised by the city. I think it has really improved over the last several years.
alon91 - July 29, 2009
Shame about all the Steelers and Penguins fans.
In fact, my sig was originally going to read ‘Fuck Anaheim & Pittsburgh’ but I figured it didn’t really apply to a basebaall blog as I sort of nothing the Pirates.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Snell is going to be immediately put into the rotation isn't he?
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Yes.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
I would think he'd go in the Vargas/Olson slot,
but I have no real idea.
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
I imagine he'll take Washburn's slot
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Bedard's?
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
We've got a lot of open slots.
Heydude - July 29, 2009
Zduriencik
Larry Stone
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
"Next few years"
Anyone else think an extension might already be in the works here? Even with the club option, Wilson’s only signed through next year…
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
Doubt it
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I'd consider throwing him a 2 year extension
Buy out next year’s option and add him for 2011 at 10-12 million over 2? The Pirates offered him an 8M, 2 year extension and he shot it down… How many SS are better than Wilson (even with his projected age-related decline) over that period? I wouldn’t mind locking him in for another year at that price, especially when we’re almost certain to pay him over 8 next year.
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
No reason to talk extension until you have to
Wilson’s not a special player and there are other players out there we could get.
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Jack W?lson
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Washburn out, Snell in.
Now I will never get to sleep.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Washburn out?
Did I miss something?
BQueezy - July 29, 2009
Insinuation.
Jack’s quote leads me to believe he’ll be directly inserted into the rotation, likely in place of a soon to be traded Washburn.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Bedard?
Am I missing something or isn’t that the more immediate slot?
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Hernandez
RRS, Olsen, Vargas, Snell, is my presumptive stab at the rotation.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Olson
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Shit.
I had a 50/50 shot.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Can I add BranyAn in here as well?
I see it spelt BranyOn all too often and it really fucks me off.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Normally I don't point out misspellings but a misspelling in a comment about misspellings is pretty funny.
(Also, I agree.)
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I don't want to be a prick about it, but at this point in the season people should know how to spell Olson.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Like anyone gives a shit about Olson
But yeah
Kermit. - July 29, 2009
I know this was brought up earlier in the season
but I was too lazy to look it up and as I said, just took a guess and ended up wrong. My bad.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Yeah isn't that some sort of grain?
JMKaustin - July 29, 2009
Spelt isn't wrong.
Teej - July 29, 2009
I've read it back and I can't see what is.
Is it just spelt/spelled or am I being an idiot?
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
Spelt is a grain.
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
I assume that's what people are talking about.
And you’re English, right, where “spelt” is a perfectly normal spelling?
Teej - July 29, 2009
Oh, that's ok then. For a second there I worried I was becoming illiterate.
Spelt is fine over here, yes.
Eyeball Kid - July 29, 2009
I thought spelt was an error until someone pointed that out to me recently.
Words!
Teej - July 29, 2009
My most sincere of apologies.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Heh.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/11/7/656375/take-5-seconds-and-help-da#10054330
Teej - July 29, 2009
If he wasn't British I would still call BS.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
That looks really sad
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Hopefully we get someone else
I hate Olson so much.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Jose Vidro was a former all-star
Defense is great but is Wilson likely to do any better than a .300 wOBA next year?
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Yes
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Then I'm pretty OK with this
At least we’ve got LaFromboise
Bearskin Rugburn - July 29, 2009
Likely?
It’s a possibility but I don’t see it being likely.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Marcelling his wOBA* gives .320
The NL is a better league but it’s not .20 wOBA better
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
This is where I admit that I was looking at UZR and glanced at FG wOBA
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Naughty
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Oh like yours is so much better
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Ours doesn't think Pedroia was god last year
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Me want touch
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It's almost like you adjust for park differently
Poochie - July 29, 2009
That .005 difference is huge
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Really?
His last four years’ wOBA:
.301
.335
.293
.300
And now he’s moving to Safeco and the AL?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
.
wOBA
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Why not Fangraphs?
tait644 - July 29, 2009
They don't include RBOE and don't park adjust properly
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
He slugged .440 in a park that is death on RHBs
That’s not to say that should be expected, but he has show good power at times, and been putrid at others
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Yeah because Safeco is just a rose garden for RHBs
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I was under the impression that PNC is horrific for right handed hitters
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Me as well, but it's not as if Safeco is any better
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Now that I step back from "OMG WHY NO BRIGNAC" I rather like this deal.
I hate giving up Pribanec and Lorin, like everyone here, but I still like it.
kentcheesehead - July 29, 2009
Look at it this way
Would you guys trade Clement and Adcock for Snell? What about Cedeno, Lorin and Pribanec for Wilson?
Humongo - July 29, 2009
First yes, second no.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Yes, no
I would not give them both Pribanic and Lorin
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
It's really just one too many of Lorin/Adcock
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Lorin
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Kovacevic again
“Pirates put up significant amount of cash in Wilson, Snell trade”
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
This is encouraging.
levnclf - July 29, 2009
Indeed.
Humongo - July 29, 2009
Is cash an issue with the M's though?
russak - July 29, 2009
Would've been
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Frees us up to take on some cash in a Washburn deal
seattlecougar - July 29, 2009
We can always use cash.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
It's an issue with about 28 teams.
Teej - July 29, 2009
It's an issue witht he Yankees as well, just at a much higher level.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Yup. Money is money, and having more is good.
Teej - July 29, 2009
Wait, Biggie lied?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I would hope so.
tait644 - July 29, 2009
Chris Snelling is slugging .123 in AAA
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
WHY THE FUCK WASN'T HE TACKED ON
Poochie - July 29, 2009
He was pulled from the game but tore his acl walking into the dugout.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
This news is a spoonful of sugar.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
A caller wants Softy to use his pull to make a call to get Washburn traded for Hector Rondon.
msb - July 29, 2009
Heard that
What an absolute moron.
mikiturner - July 29, 2009
Why are you listening to softy...
I hate that jackass.
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
He's not Cowherd.
however I find that 710 is actually live.
msb - July 29, 2009
Oooh! It's Rob Johnson, Team Spokesmodel!
msb - July 29, 2009
Awww.
Rob thinks this means they are not giving up!
and that the Lord has a plan for his buddy Jeff.
msb - July 29, 2009
That is true, I hate Cowherd above all else
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
Apprently the Pirates are putting in a signigicant amount of cash into the deal
says Dejan Kovacevic via twitter
So if you’re replacing Cedeno (-.7 WAR) with Wilson, who has 2 WAR on the season (derived basically solely from his defense), and the Pirates are covering most of the cost, it’s not that bad.
Plus, Ian Snell did this. I mean, holy crap.
Pat Andriola - July 29, 2009
"Wilson found about the trade through the media, not directly from the Pirates."
Stay classy, Pittsburgh.
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
*from Kovacevic blog
cyberwulf - July 29, 2009
What type of compensation pick are we looking at if Snell offs himself?
Robert - July 29, 2009
Darryl kyle
marinerdan - July 29, 2009
He died of natural causes
Jerk
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Two-for-one grief counseling at WalMart
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Surprised it took an entire hour to start piling on the guy
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
I had to get my parting shots in at the retard first.
Robert - July 29, 2009
Fruit basket from Selig.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Sympathy from Angels fans?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
This is fun
We got this.
I like it.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
He also walked 4 in a game and 5 in a game
I’m not convinced he’s fixed yet.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
we got a Toyota Tundra?
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
'Twas a throw in.
Jack’s truck just broke down and he needed a new one.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
shut out the brewers
with the exception of a Gallardo HR. It was also a game with high emotions due to beanballing in an earlier game etc. and he was fired up.
JetSam - July 29, 2009
Two things:
He set a Victory Field record!
And why is the Pirates AAA team called the Indians?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I liked Ian Snell until I realized his name used to be Ian Oquendo
That made me think he was dirty and smelled
calim - July 29, 2009
Because Mesoamerican Indians smell?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Obviously
calim - July 29, 2009
I dunno
“Snell” doesn’t necessarily conjure up images of Irish Spring.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
My take is up on FanGraphs
For anyone who cares.
davidcameron - July 29, 2009
How's USSM handling this?
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
I CAN'T READ IT
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
I was only able to find it on my RSS feed.
Teej - July 29, 2009
Ian Snell's contract:
08:$0.75M, 09:$3M, 10:$4.25M, 11:$6.75M club option, 12:$9.25M club option
I really dislike this trade unless the Pirates are sending like $12M to us
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Holy crap thats a lot of money down the road.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Snell's contract is fine
$2 million for Snell next year is a bargain, and the team options are friendly if he rebounds to previous form. It’s Wilson’s $8 million for next year that i don’t like.
davidcameron - July 29, 2009
10:$4.25M
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Maybe Dave is assuming the amount of money we're getting from the Pirates to cover Snell's 2010?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Yeah I was thinking they need to cover Wilson's option
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I guess the Pirates didn't want to do a Wlad for Snell swap.
russak - July 29, 2009
Jack Z is on 710 right now
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
He says Snell will probably go to Tacoma.
His happy place.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I'm just sad we won't get to see Clement close for us.
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
Bottom line:
No sir, I don’t like it.
You’d better do something good with Washburn Jack.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Apparently the Phillies and Indians have agreed on a Cliff Lee deal
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Good
now trade Washburn faster.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
That's much better than Halladay ending up there
Poochie - July 29, 2009
According to GMZ they're sending Snell to AAA
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Probably*
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Wait until Washburn is moved
Poochie - July 29, 2009
"To get his feet wet in the organization" and to see where he fits in the rotation...
msb - July 29, 2009
Yes
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Hahah!
Brock just asked Z about Snell’s suicidal episode and he says “well, this weekend I had similiar thoughts.”
Omerta - July 29, 2009
You must be 20 seconds ahead of me
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Give or take.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Holy fuck someone quoted UZR in the ESPN comments
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
But is not 2012 yet,
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Is fangraphs down?
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
I just lost it
arbeck77 - July 29, 2009
All the USSM readers crashed it.
Teej - July 29, 2009
Hmm..
“12:42pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi report that the sides have agreed to a deal that sends Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco to Philly for Jason Knapp, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald and Lou Marson. The teams still have to examine medical records for the deal to go through.”
Interesting.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Wow, Francisco.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
That is odd.
Teej - July 29, 2009
Holy shit.
Garces - July 29, 2009
That's like someone quoting Proust on icanhazcheezburger
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
This was a reply to seattlebruin above.
I’d better stop for the day.
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
USSM died.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Ian to Seattle - Snell's Like Teen Spirit
SFMariner - July 29, 2009
Aaaaaaahhhhhhh no
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Yeah, as soon as I posted
I realized that it probably wasn’t worth it.
SFMariner - July 29, 2009
This would work if Snell wasn't 27.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Snell's Like Team Spirit.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Better
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Still fucking awful.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I think it's okay.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I hate Nirvana/grunge/rain/coffee jokes.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Let's try and keep Snell as far away from Cobain as possible.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
And Heroin and Shotguns.
Mariner Melee - July 29, 2009
Or just Courtney
qrsouther - July 29, 2009
So we've traded
JJ Putz, Sean Green, Luis Valbuena, Jeremy Reed, Jeff Clement, Brett Lorin, Aaron Pribinac, and Nathan Adcock for
Franklin Gutierrez, Endy Chavez, Jason Vargas, Garret Olson, Jack Wilson, Ian Snell, Maikel Cleto, and Ezequiel Carrera
That looks worse all the sudden
Corco - July 29, 2009
You forgot :(edeno
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Cedeno both went in and out
so doesn’t count on either list
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
No I didn't
Corco - July 29, 2009
No because he's gone.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
In combining the trades, Cedeno cancels out.
That’s the whole point.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Ah. My mistake.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Just having Gutz in there makes it look fine to me.
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
What about Carp?
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
I knew I was forgetting someone
Corco - July 29, 2009
Helps a little.
Did Cleto ever start pitching?
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Yes, in Clinton.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
That's good to hear, thanks.
I’ll have to check his numbers.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
They suck
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Well shit.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Eh, Gutierrez is an All-Star, Chavez and Wilson are both league average, Vargas and Olson have value and Snell could be fun.
Putz sucks, Green is a reliever, Clement isn’t especially valuable and Reed is a nutjob.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
And $$$$
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Has anyone reported how much $$$$ is coming to Seattle?
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
Salk says Dave Cameron should be on the show a little later.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Really?
I wonder when they’re going to tell me that.
davidcameron - July 29, 2009
Now I'm just confused.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
They probably plan to call soon and set it up
Its just funny that they announced it without saying anything to me first.
davidcameron - July 29, 2009
Don't let them assume things of you Dave!
You gotta play hard to get now.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
They know you dislike the trade!
Poochie - July 29, 2009
If Jack Wilson can discover that he's been traded via the media, then why can't you be informed of your appearance on the radio via LL?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
They said they were "trying" to get you...
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Is that what it was?
I heard something about getting Dave on later, but the radio’s in another room.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
No I think I heard what you heard
Poochie - July 29, 2009
They didn't say he'd be on for sure.
It was right around when Salk was talking about receiving an email from Dave earlier saying we overpaid, but they both still like it anyway, and then he said something about trying to get him on later.
Omerta - July 29, 2009
He said they were hoping to have Dave on
msb - July 29, 2009
If either of the arms we gave up make the top become quality pitching prospects I'm going to be upset.
russak - July 29, 2009
Shit.
russak - July 29, 2009
That's not a good way to evaluate trades.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Cliff Lee is gone
Washburn is the best lefty on the market.
..Is Fangraphs still down?
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
~
http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/fangraphs.com
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Gracias.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
That is a neat little website.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I never thought I would ever hear that.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
I wonder if the M's will now trade Washburn at all.
Supposedly he wants to stick around Seattle, and Hernandez, Snell, Washburn would be an interesting nucleus for 2010 if they resigned him. I only say this because this move seems concentrated on the next 1-2 years.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
I was thinking Washburn would still be traded, and Snell would take his place
oreotree - July 29, 2009
Could be, but that leaves the M's in essentially the same position they're in this year
+ Jack Wilson for 2010. You only get Wilson if you’re planning to make a serious try next year. Otherwise you’d just get Snell.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Well not technically the same position considering we would probably get something in return for Washburn.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Is there any way everyone can just wait until Friday to see what happens?
Nah, probably not.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Silly question
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Oh that would be good
Resign him at his highest value for a prohibitive contract. That’s worked out great before.
manifestus - July 29, 2009
Given that we know TheOptimist isn't stupid
I’m guessing he means for something like $2/10 or $1/6
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
No way Washburn would take that.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Not quite that low, but something in that ballpark. Certainly nothing over 8 mil a year.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
There is no contract that Washburn would sign that we would like.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Obviously you wouldn't do it if you thought Wash was going to try to soak you.
Like I said, if he theoretically WANTS to stick around, 2/14, 3/20 might be a possibility. Not bad for a veteran pitcher.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Gross
Matthew - July 29, 2009
But what other motivation could this trade possibly have?
You don’t trade for Jack Wilson and give away all those young pitchers if you’re building for the future. This says the M’s are taking a shot at next year.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
I'm with you on the building for the future.
There’s no way Z thinks we’re going to win it all next year, right?
PDXTai - July 29, 2009
I think he sees an opening. The Angels lose a number of key pieces this
offseason and there’s now way they keep everybody, the A’s are a few years away from competing again. The Rangers are a threat, but life’s risky. Could be Z is thinking if he can get 5 to 10 games better he has an excellent shot at the division, and anything can happen in the playoffs.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Why not?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Ian Snell could conceivably be around through 2012
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Also Jarrod Washburn sucks
Matthew - July 29, 2009
He could conceivably be around forever.
katal - July 29, 2009
~
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Maybe we can flip him for Moyer at the deadline then.
PDXTai - July 29, 2009
So the M's traded 3 Single A prospects, Jeff Clement and :(edeno
To get a guy who’ll be paid a 20 million over those years if they decide to keep him around and a half year of Jack Wilson? (No reason to get his option if they’re not making a serious run in 2010.) Not to mention said pitcher blew up the last time he played in the majors. I guess it works, but it seems like there would have been cheaper ways to get a player with as many questions as Snell.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
It is interesting that Snell's value seemed so low according to reports and yet obviously it wasn't that low.
You’d think the M’s could’ve acquired Wilson alone for Clement and maybe 1 of those pitchers.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
And a week or so before he was traded
people were saying that the As would have to throw in tons of cash to move Matt Holliday and still not expect much in return.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I am thinking the same thing.
Recall Washburn, when asked about re-signing with Scott Boras as his agent, said, “he works for me”.
The team seems to have developed great clubhouse chemistry. If guys like Washburn, Beltre, and Branyan are willing to be reasonable with their contract demands, I suspect the FO will want to keep this team together.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Or, "he works for me"="he gets me lots of money."
Even a hometown discount will be expensive.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
It's not that I'm upset about this trade
I just expected Jack to do better.
If this was Bavasi, we’d be happier.
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
If this was Bavasi I think the general reaction would be significantly more livid.
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Our expectations are so high for Jack.
Which I think they deserve to be.
But seriously, if this was Bavasi…he wouldnt want Snell. He only wants the old dudes.
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
Snelling!
russak - July 29, 2009
I think that's a fair point.
I’m definately giving him the benefit of the doubt as time passes here..
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Reminds me of a Gillick type of move.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Gillick made trades?
Robert - July 29, 2009
Al Martin!
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Hey that was a good trade
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Piss off fuckant
Robert - July 29, 2009
And he wasn't too fond of minor leaguers.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
How does that make this a Gillick type move?
Robert - July 29, 2009
Low minor league prospects for Major League tested players.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Yeah, I'm going through Gillick's tenure w/ the M's.
Besides the Martin trade, there’s also:
Jeff Cirillo (Brian Fuentes, Jose Paniagua and Dennis Stark),
Ismael Valdez (Derrick Van Dusen and Jermaine Clark),
Randy Winn (Antonio Perez and Lou Piniella),
Rey Sanchez (Kenny Kelly)
and I probably missed some. Conclusion: we’ve taken in a lot of lame veterans.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Offerman!
Omerta - July 29, 2009
Yeah I missed that
I was searching B-R for trades. They say:
“Received Jose Offerman from the Boston Red Sox as part of a conditional deal.”
Translated, does that mean we paid for the privilege of having Offerman?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Cirillo/Bell were the only turds
Poochie - July 29, 2009
You mean David Bell?
We got him for Joey Cora, I think. That’s actually a pretty good trade. Especially judging by the 2001 All-Star votes.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Bell for Relaford was a bad deal
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Ok, but that wasn't a "minor leaguer for major leaguer" trade.
And that was basically a cash move, and not the worst thing ever.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
But he was such a badass in the Rose Bowl against Michigan
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
As one of those '90s Jays fans, I can say
yes, he made a bunch of deadline trades.
How could he give up Pedro Munoz?
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I think you mean Jeff Kent
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Shoot, I actually meant Glenallen Hill.
I was a huge Tom Candiotti fan, though.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Poor Wash doesn't know Snell is his replacement
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I'm sure Washburn is just sitting in lobby at Seatac waiting
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I'll be honest.
I’m still upset we didn’t get Brignac.
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
Well... yeah...
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
I'm upset we didn't get Hanley
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I wanted Pujols.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
I hated this trade at first
But I’m excited about it now. I think most of us overvalued Clement. I’m wishing and hoping Snell does good but I can’t shake the feeling its going to be a lost cause.
I worry about Ichiro though. You could tell he was nervous around Shelton, and now that Wilson is going to be on the team…I just don’t know if he can deal with it!
OceanBird - July 29, 2009
No one here really overvalues Clement.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
The way the reactions played out in this thread makes it seem like a lot of people overvalued him
Robert - July 29, 2009
I think they're upset about the pitchers.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
I sensed it was all the young arms that made this deal a little less favorable. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on Clement knew he had little value here.
kentroyals5 - July 29, 2009
My not liking the trade has little if anything to do with Clement
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
I did.
Or rather, I was hoping that other GMs still did.
Nadingo - July 29, 2009
Of course, the important consideration
is that there are probably a number of teams where Clement’s value>Clement’s value in Seattle. Makes it hard to objectively value him when you have to take the organizational context into account.
pmc47 - July 29, 2009
Too many honkies
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
What are the chances of a follow-up move?
Like Wilson + Washburn + Morrow for JJ Hardy or some such?
It seems that Z is going after defense first, pitching second, hitting third. I think that makes sense based on the current market, but I’d still like to see another move.
PDXTai - July 29, 2009
1. I still say thats WAY too much for JJ Hardy, even if people do love him.
2. I think Jack Wilson is our SS for this season and next.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
I was mentally prepared
for something I’d be gleaming about.
I lost sleep for Jack Wilson? >:(
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
But great defense.
russak - July 29, 2009
Kovacevic again, again
#Pirates paying all but $400,000 of each of Wilson, Snell salaries rest of this season.
ManifestDestiny - July 29, 2009
Thats kind of nice I guess...
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
So we're on the hook for all of Wilson's 2010 salary?
BrianL - July 29, 2009
If we pick up his option
Yes. Which seems likely.
If we decline his option, I think there’s a small buyout and we’re off the hook.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
YES YES YES
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Oh, this season
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Yay?
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Good
esoteric - July 29, 2009
That's nowhere near enough.
Not even close.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
That works out to roughly $3M
If that’s all they are sending, I am incredibly disappointed.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Yeah I was hoping for at least double that
Poochie - July 29, 2009
I said it would take 10-12
for me to be happy with the deal.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I wanted them to pick up Wilson's option
Poochie - July 29, 2009
If we decline the option on Wilson
Will be get draft picks?
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
I highly doubt Wilson qualifies as a Type B
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Im unaware of the rules..
can you offer arbitration after you decline an option?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
In some cases.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
The left side of our infield is Jacked up.
Manzanillos Cup - July 29, 2009
Cute.
fresnofan - July 29, 2009
I can imagine the Mariners commercials next season
WELCOME BACK TO ANOTHER EDITION OF MARINERS JACKASS! I’M YOUR HOST, JACK WILSON!
OceanBird - July 29, 2009
Timely AND family friendly!
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Until Beltre comes back
at which point the left side of our infield will be fucking awesome, if only for a month or so
Zack - July 29, 2009
I wonder how much it would take to re-sign him.
Honestly, I think a lot of teams still undervalue defense, which is what makes him so valuable. Given the direction this team is taking (pitching and defense), he’d fit right in, even though his RH bat isn’t perfect for Safeco.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Adrian Beltre has no incentive to stay in Seattle.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Is Red not enough?
ralphie81 - July 29, 2009
Beltre is going someplace where weather like our current weather
is not considered an apocalyptic historic heat wave.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Just got back in after hearing about the trade earlier via text.
What bums me out the most is that we’re not getting any of the high-end shortstops. Somewhere, the Mariners need to significantly improve their offense. While Wilson over Cedano is certainly an improvement, it’s not the upgrade a JJ Hardy would have been.
Trading the three A-ball starters really hurts, too. I was a big fan of Lorin.
katal - July 29, 2009
DH and 2B could still be upgraded at some point
although I doubt DH is upgraded this year.
bluemax - July 29, 2009
Branyan to DH in 2010?
I have visions of Carp coming up to play 1B and Branyan turning into our DH. Crazy?
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
But....
Isn’t Branyan a better defender?
arbeck77 - July 29, 2009
No idea
I just think Branyan fits in well here and would like to re-sign, but I think Carp’s a guy who is ready for the majors.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Carp is ready to be a completely forgettable major leaguer
and Branyan is a plus defender at first
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Branyan could play 3B next year though.
Giving you a Carp-Lopez-Wilson-Branyan infield and basically freeing Z up to go after nothing but pitching and a DH this offseason.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
True, but that doesn't really sound like a move GMZ would make
it’s been pretty clear he likes guys who are plus defenders, and Branyan wouldn’t fit that bill at third.
Also, that assumes you can sign him to a reasonable contract after this season is over.
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Yes
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
Just give him some tonic!
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
He already has some, but it just increased the size of his rear end.
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
Why has everyone missed the "Jose Lopez is good" memo?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Punting is winning.
bluemax - July 29, 2009
I have a feeling we'll have a shiny new DH/C/2B next year
Poochie - July 29, 2009
You do realize high end shortstops are pretty damn hard to find or acquire?
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
Obviously.
The fact that we were in discussions for three of them, and yet we ended up with Jack Wilson, is what disappoints me.
katal - July 29, 2009
So would we have been better off standing pat?
russak - July 29, 2009
Judging by the highlight package on ESPN, Jack Wilson appears to be at his best when he's wildly off-balanced
I’ve never seen him play (except maybe in the all-star game), but all his highlight throws come with him falling off to one side. The same, sadly, is true for his at-bats, most of which don’t even show him hitting line drives.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
I think Snell will be the interesting piece.
I wonder if Jack is turning the M’s into the Denver Broncos of baseball. i.e. build a great offensive line (the defense, in Safeco) and make average running backs (pitchers) look great so that you can trade them for more valuable pieces.
Ian Snell is now pitching on one of the best defenses is baseball, and it did just get better with Jack Wilson.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Tacoma has a terrible defense.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Sorry, Ian Snell will soon (i think) be pitching on a great defense.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
And Jack Wilson won't be playing for Tacoma
JY - July 29, 2009
I think Snell is the key to the trade. He has more god given talent then any of the players
we gave up. If he can get his stuff together with Wallace and Adair, he’s the best player in this trade and a valuable piece to the puzzle
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
I like that Rich Poythress just signed.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Yesterday.
JY - July 29, 2009
He signed yesterday.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I thought it was today, as well.
“TNTmariners The Mariners signed second-round pick Rich Poythress officially today. Met him, big guy, bone-crushing handshake, reports of 700K bonus 2 minutes ago from web”
Divish says today, as well.
Garces - July 29, 2009
I need an edit feature, as well.
Garces - July 29, 2009
Officially maybe
It came out early yesterday
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Sorry, I am happy he signed yesterday.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
I just heard it and I'm excited.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
He'll be playing in double-A by the beginning of next week!
JY - July 29, 2009
I got my thoughts down.
I’ll spare you the tl; dr/LLLJ by not reposting it, but mediocre trades bring out my existential side.
I don’t know what provokes this shit. Someone better get the super soaker.
JY - July 29, 2009
I think this trade would make a whole lot more sense if we were 3 games back or less.
However, the trade could still work out to basically being just Jeff Clement for Ian Snell and Jack Wilson and they are both essentially free for 2009.
It sounds to me like Lorin and Pribanic were still long shots to be successful starting pitchers in the majors?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Being free in 2009 is pointless.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
If they had to spend 5 million or more on them this season that would not affect the front office in the slightest in regards to what moves they make now and in the offseason?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Year to year budgets do not roll over.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Okay maybe its pointless to us, but it wasn't pointless to the Mariners. I just heard a lot of rambling through the comments about the amount Wilson costs this season and not being happy about it.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
A) Who cared about what Wilson costs this season?
B) Comments on this site != represent the Mariners
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Well
take the money from the Pirates and give it to Dustin Ackley to sign. :)
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Saving money is saving money
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Pointless from a 2010, what we can do in the offseason, perspective
Matthew - July 29, 2009
But good from a signing draft picks/international FA perspective
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Hopefully, yes.
I should have been more clear though that I was talking about how it affected our upcoming offseason.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Then that's fair
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
As far as it relates to the Wilson-Snell thing
is because this seems like a 2010 or expensive/bust trade to me. Which is why I wanted more of Wilson’s or Snell’s 2010 salary covered.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I wonder if the M's know about Jack Wilson's side job
noisy.penguin - July 29, 2009
Him and Shelton in playing the same on the same infield.
russak - July 29, 2009
I was waiting for someone to point out that we also just traded for the MLBs leader in Total Fugliness.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Perhaps the M's can use their connections at the "Dandy House"...
cogs - July 29, 2009
Balentian traded
to the Reds for a RP. Seems like a good move.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Rhodes!
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
Link?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Robert Manuel!
http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/2914662479
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Well looks like Wiki users are all over Twitter feeds too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Manuel_(baseball)
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
It's what MLBTR is using, also.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
Seems like a pretty good return
We have a surfeit of outfielders. Cheap, effective relievers, I feel like you can never have enough of.
saltydog75 - July 29, 2009
Really?
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Well he was DFA'd the other day.
If we get anything better than organizational filler for him, I’m content.
katal - July 29, 2009
If Manuel's on the Reds' 25-man roster, can the M's still move him to Tacoma if they want?
And judging by his stats at Fangraphs, it looks like he has a pretty good K rate.
yuniform - July 29, 2009
That's good, restores a little of the pitching depth.
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Not really
Manuel is a non-prospect type, a random, forgettable big-league ready reliever
He’s not really depth at all except bullpen depth.
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
"He’s not really depth at all except bullpen depth."
What?
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
We had tons of low minors SP prospects yesterday.
Now we don’t. Manuel doesn’t change that.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
But he said he isn't depth.
And followed it by saying he is bullpen depth.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Bullpen depth means almost nothing
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Yes
But I think you guys are missing my intension of smartassery.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
No, we're not
Matthew and AC are just clarifying my point. Meaningless bullpen depth does nothing to offset the starters we gave up earlier today.
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I wasn't questioning what you were saying
More so how you were wording it.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Thanks, AC
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
According to Dave N. this trade made :(edeno cry
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Aww
BrianL - July 29, 2009
Buck up, my wittle bubu!
cogs - July 29, 2009
His hitting made us cry.
Sec 108 - July 29, 2009
I would cry too if I just got traded to Pittsburgh
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I WILL COMFORT HIM
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
He's just sad because he finally had a fan
and now he has to leave
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I think he finally heard me at that last game, too.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
I'm pretty sure he did.
Sec 108 - July 29, 2009
What's funny is that anyone else that heard you probably thought "aw geez, another causual woman fan that cares more about looks than talent."
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Actually a guy in our section yelled that he loved him too.
Sec 108 - July 29, 2009
Wow you have a lot of conforting in your upcoming schedule
Poochie - July 29, 2009
:'(edeno
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
:(_edeno
Robert - July 29, 2009
Aw goddammit this makes me so sad :(
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
He is eight
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
What are the odds that Jeff Clement gets as many major league at-bats as the 1700+ comments he got in the hours before his trade?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
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