Or is Ichiro using a more crouched and slightly open stance than usual… I always remember him standing a little taller and closed off (I could just be retarded)
Thanks for banning me for awhile there for not using the subject line. At another sbnation site no one uses it except for exclamations. Sorry I wasn’t in the know there. Now bite it.
I think we will be surprised by our running game this year. Our starting 5 O-Linemen won't be on injured reserve to start the year.
Also, Julius and TJ are better than Hawks fans think. I think 7-9 is a worst case scenario, 12-4 is a best-case. I would not be shocked at all if we made it back to the playoffs. After all, how likely is it that we’ll lose our top 7 receivers, all 5 of our linemen, our starting QB for 8 games, our 2nd QB for 1 game, two of our LBs for 3 games, etc etc etc. for the rest of the year? The 2008 Seahawks, as referenced on FG, were historically unlucky with injuries.
I expect league-average production out of them. Maybe 4.0 YPC, 15 TDs from the total group, and 1,700 yards? If Hass returns to moderate form, and the Defense improves, that’s enough for 7-11 wins with 6 as a worst case and 12 as a best case.
And I realize I myself am a shitty commenter probably 2/3 of the time. But you, JM, and Doug keep the main page content so good that I can’t stop reading.
Sometimes I wonder how someone can see a subject line used on 1000 comments in game threads
then get warned about how we use it here, and then still not think they need to use it. Thousands and thousands of comments, each one with the subject line, and they act like this is totally new and we are picking on them.
Am I foolish for not being disappointed with Wilson and Snell for a 26-year old with no position, a MIF who can't hit, and 3 maybe-they-will or maybe-they-won't A-ballers?
Honestly, I’m happy we’re winning without our new talent, and I think the deal is a slight M’s win, though not a great deal for us. But honestly…we’re beating Roy Halladay right now. And we got a high K reliever for a reclamation project like Wlad. We may have given up too much quantity, but I really feel like we gave up high-risk, high reward, for medium risk, medum/high-reward (Snell being the high reward) am I wrong?
Also, holy crap we are winning against Roy Halladay while starting Chris Woodward at SS and Junior doubled in the go-ahead runs. I feel getting a true MLB SS, a 3-4 SP for high-risk high-reward guys, and winning against Halladay with our over the hill DH delivring the big blow is a great day overall.
Also, why is Branyan sitting two straight days? Is he hurt? My news search is in German today and will be in Italian tomorrow, so it’s hard to understand what’s going on. A little help, guys?
That's pretty much my thought. We got real upgrades at positions of need.
But, we may have gave up a little too much. However, it’s not a huge loss. We improved 2009 and 2010 at the cost of hurting ourselves in 2011 and 12 if the three A-ballers pan out. However, if they don’t we win the deal outright. Though I know evaluating deals at the time in better than evaluating them in retrospect.
I think that the value of that package will likely be around the equivalent of a league average starting pitcher for six years. This includes all of them as relievers, two of them as #4s, etc.
But I just can’t believe the Pirates had the leverage to demand this much. Snell told them he had no desire to pitch for them anymore. And they got ALL of Adcock/Pribanic/Lorin?
You’re right about Pribanic of course, but I think he made immense strides this year, and I feel there’s more projection there. He’s just not a finished/polished product. That and, uh, TONS of ground balls.
Pittsburgh will be happy if one of the three turns into a league average starter. If two pan out, we lose the deal. If three pan out, we did terrible in the deal. I guess the way I see it is, even if one pans out, we win. If two pan out, we lose slightly. If three pan out, we lose a lot. But at the time, if it’s not a slight M’s win, it’s a slight Pirates win. It’s not too lopsided in either team’s favor.
I guess I feel that A-Ballers that are not blue chippers have upside as 3 starters if they completely pan out, 4-5 starters if they reach their mean, and are AAAA guys if they don’t. I feel they have value, but they are not extremely likely to reach their full potential.
Results wise, our 3 A-Ballers have done really well. However, looking at the track records of most A-Ballers, they’re not likely to become more than 3, 4, or 5 starters, if they make the majors at all. Clement will likely be an ~.800 OPS bat, Cedeno will be .600-700 with good D. The A-Ballers…I don’t feel too bad losing them. I feel a bit bad losing THREE of them. However, odds are, based on past history, only one of them is likely to pan out. At least, that’s how it feels. I have no problem admitting I’m wrong if people can provide evidence otherwise about A-Baller’s success (J/M/G?) but I feel that Pittsburgh is hoping that Clement hits, Cedeno is around a .700 OPS, not .600, and one of the three P’s pans out. I do think that is a tall order. I don’t think that’s results based. I don’t think it’s a steal for the M’s. But I really don’t think it’s bad for the M’s either.
Sure. But even if they have 30% success rate (if that's how I'm to understand it, I've had a bit to drink so I'm sorry if I don't
I don’t think that’s a bad deal for the M’s.
WIlson is what, a 1.5-2.5 win player? Snell may have upside as a 3.50 FIP (I mean, he’s young and around 4.30 career), 4.20 tRA guy? I think we’re going for risk as much as the Pirates. We gave up a quantity of potentially good players for a few guys that our (fairly smart) FO thinks may give us a bit more value. I think part of my optimism may be just blind trust in Jack Z, but I really don’t think it’s a bad deal. We’re not ripping the Pirates off, but it’s in the realm of slight M’s win to slight M’s loss. I don’t feel bad about the deal.
However, if they end up being #5 arms/RPs, a not unlikely scenario, how bad is it? If we lose 5 years of middle relivers and/or a #5 starter, how bad is that? Jack has assembled pretty good #5 arms and MRPs for pretty much nothing. I know we’ve only had three averageish RPs by FIP (White, Lowe, Aardsma) but getting #5’s/RPs under team control for a small amount of money doesn’t look like something that Z is bad at. I guess that’s why I’m not worried. I feel like he can replace this loss fairly cheaply. Yeah, we may have lost a #3 starter if Lorin totally pans out. But we have to keep risk in mind. And if he becomes a #3 starter, I will cheerfully admit that Z blew it, hard, on this deal. I just don’t see the risk/reward possibility as that bad on the three A arms. I keep saying—it’s not a GREAT deal. But to say it’s bad is overstating it, really. For it to be bad, the A-ball arms would have to become more than cheap #5’s or decent Middle relievers. It’s possible they will become more than that. But based on what I’ve seen of pitching prospects in my day, I really just expect the least from pitching prospects. That’s probably wrong of me to do. I think not hating,but not loving the deal is about right. It’s a good return that may look below average later. But it’s not a deal we’ll rue in the future, I don’t think.
There was a quote in this weeks ESPN the magazine about how scouts have a term that goes something like "There is no such thing as a pitching prospect"
Because so few ever do what they’re supposed to do.
(and please note his career tRA is closer to 5, though there were extenuating circumstances like he hated everyone), we’ll be paying him $4.25 million next year and then a club option at $6.75m the year after.
IF we want our 1.5-2.5 WAR SS in Wilson, we’ll need to pay him $8.4M.
That’s what happens if everything works out. That’s not a terrible outcome or anything, but we traded ‘a ballers’ and Clement and Cedeno for a moderate chance of paying players around what they’re worth. Huh.
It was 4.57 in ‘08 and 4.57 in ’09. Again, we seem to be betting on the notion that he’s much more like his career year in ‘07 (4.01 FIP), and that he’s been walking the world because he’s mad at Pittsburgh.
I’ve got no problem with that – he seems talented and all. But again, IF he’s able to pull it together a bit and get to league average in the AL (which would take a lot of improvement), then…. he’ll be paid exactly what he’s worth.
Again, he’s a good risk, but Pitt. had no leverage with him, and we seemed to give up a lot in order to assume that risk.
it's an annoying trade because it feels like we could have gotten more.
But because the pirates are also essentially paying their contracts the rest of the year, it’s not that bad. Wlad’s kind of sucks, but whatever. Also Branyan has back tightness.
I guess I just feel that unless two of Pribanic, Lorin, and Adcock actually pan out, we win. I’ve heard people say that Jeffie’s upside is .275/.360/.475…and as a catcher, that’s great, but as a 1B, not so much. Also, Cedeno is what, a 1-2 WAR player? I guess the reason I see it as a slight M’s win—at least for now—is because we gave up guys who may or may not make it to the bigs for guys who are sure upgrades now. I love me some prospects, but it seems we gave up C+ to B prospects, not A prospects to get solid MLB players now. And as much as I love Jeffie, I don’t see him as more than a B prospect. But I’d love to hear a more detailed take from you—I know I’m not half the analyst you are. Let me know why you think what you do? I’ve heard Jeff’s take, but I’d love to hear yours as well.
Lorin, Pribanic, and Adcock are high-risk, high reward guys. People knew Jones would be good. They knew Tillman would likely at least be not-terrible. I don’t see this package as comparable, because the three arms we gave up are all high risk, being in A-ball and all. As I’ve said, I don’t think this is an outright win for the M’s. But it’s not a loss. For 2009 and 10, it’s probably a wash or slight win. But you have to factor the risk of the A-Ballers we gave up as well as the reward. Like I’ve said, you’re a better analyst than I, but I don’t seriously believe that we overpaid drastically. Maybe a little. But not a lot.
Well, what I've been trying to communicate (poorly, probably) is that Jack may not feel that they are likely to reach their potential.
If he’s wrong on them, well, we didn’t do too well in this deal. But if he’s right, we did. At the time of the deal, we are either slight winners or slight losers in my eyes. But I think Jack knows how to evaluate players, and the risk is probably why he was willing to trade them.
But how many A-Ballers of that profile pan out? I think Jack Z is just hoping that they don’t pan out to improve for the next two years. Yes, it sucks to lose them, but I think he’s taking less risk for a higher chance of medium to above average reward.
I’m not jumping for joy over the deal. But realistically, it’s unlikely that all three of the a-ballers pan out. If Clement becomes an .830 OPS 1B, and Ronny reaches a .700 OPS true talent level, and two of the three A-Ballers pan out then Pittsburgh won the deal. However, it has seemed in the past that high risk a-ballers don’t often pan out. If they do, results wise, we lose. I think Jack Z’s line of thinking is, however, that it’s not likely that all three pan out, and we’re adding wins against high risk A-Baller’s panning out. Like I said, it’s not a great deal, but I just feel it’s wrong to lament it as a BAD deal.
Wilson is worth 2.5 WAR with a great year, and Snell is worth 3.0 WAR. Best-case scenario. At worst, Wilson is what, 1.5, and Snell is 2.0?
I love Clement. I almost bought a jersey. If he has a great year, he’s worth what, 3.0 WAR as a 1B? His bat is great for a catcher and average for a 1B as far as I’ve been told from great SABR analysts like you and J/M and Dave.
Cedeno? 1.5 if he can get to a .300 wOBA and play similar defense?
The 3 A-Ball arms are nice. But Lorin is a 3.0 WAR guy if all pans out, Adcock about the same, and Pribanic around 2.0? That’s if they reach their absolute upside, right? At least, that’s how I seem to interpret it from what I’ve read. Maybe I’m wrong. But it seems like, for 2009 and 2010, we win the deal. It’s possible Pittsburgh gets better value. But if we get 2 wins from Snell and Wilson this year, and 5 wins from the two next year, it’s not terrible. Pittsburgh’s return has higher upside, but significantly higher risk. If they all reach their potential, we lose the deal outright. But how likely is it that all of the players we traded reach their total upside?
Of course the players we got are going to be more valuable over the next year and a half. Pittsburgh is trading for the future. But if they end up with a Clement and a Lorin as quality major leaguers under team control at a cheap cost, then they win the deal long-term. If Adcock or Pribanic also get to that level, it’s a wipe-out unless Snell is phenomenal here.
Right. I know for 2009 and 2010 it's hard for us to lose.
I’m just saying that, it’s possible that we win beyond that too. Not necessarily likely, but it’s not a sure thing that even one of the three A-Ballers pan out. I think overall this trade is most likely to be a wash for us. But to call it great, or terrible, seems wrong to me.
5:46pm: Henry Schulman at the San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that it's a done deal, Sanchez straight up for a minor-leaguer. Stay tuned for the name.
Heeeeeee.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Mariners: Complete Game Streak Breakers
katal - July 29, 2009
Ian Snell looks like a prison rapist
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
And he looks like he's in jail for giving a snitch a new smile.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Describe your familiarity with this population
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson looks like he was the victim of said prison rape.
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
After looking at that smiling face,
it is hard to believe he has depression issues.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Missing John Lackey.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Ian Snell gonna cut a bitch?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
You just knew he would get a hit there
danduke - July 29, 2009
Snell looks dangerous.
russak - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson looks not dangerous
calim - July 29, 2009
The guy in the middle looks like a whiter LL Cool J.
Jed MC - July 29, 2009
Who are those two ugly people?
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Oh. Right.
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Snell looks kind of like fiddy.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
A lighter skinned 50 cent.
Fin - July 29, 2009
You guys are all so racist.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
How does Jack Wilson play such good defense with one eye pointing toward first and one toward third
abender20 - July 29, 2009
WILSON!
w00tah - July 29, 2009
LOOK AT THAT BEAUTIFUL MAN.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Here it is!
Limerickx - July 29, 2009
JACK!
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
So is it just me?
Or is Ichiro using a more crouched and slightly open stance than usual… I always remember him standing a little taller and closed off (I could just be retarded)
Also
Bunt here?
BQueezy - July 29, 2009
I don't think Wilson looks that ugly, personally.
appleshampoo - July 29, 2009
He looks like someone you'd find next to you at the pub.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
He looks like Bilbo Baggins retarded cousin.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson sighting at the ballpark. Doesn't look like a baseball player
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
I wonder is Jack Wilson will walk out to Josh Grobin.
Fin - July 29, 2009
Groban
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I am sorry you know that.
Rich Langford - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson looks so relieved...
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
He'll be even more relieved when we trade him to the Red Sox tomorrow.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Indians coming back!
danduke - July 29, 2009
Riiight
calim - July 29, 2009
Too bad we dont have Josh Wilson in seattle anymore.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
The sacks are juiced!!!!
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Is Wilson gonna come running in and hit Silva with a steel chair?
Goose - July 29, 2009
I dont know why this is funny.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson appears to be balding
Robert - July 29, 2009
NOW Hines gets gunshy?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It was the right decision...
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
Ive never seen to eyes so close together.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Are you an optomitrist?
calim - July 29, 2009
Ugh how did he not score on that?
Please don’t fuck this up Griffey
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Good job on holding him ketchup man!
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
JOSE LOPEZ IS GOOD!
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
In a moral sense.
Fin - July 29, 2009
Odd
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
HIT A GRIFFTRIPPER!!!!
Robert - July 29, 2009
Well this will be hilarious
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Pinch-hit Wilson for him!
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
HILARIOUSLY PERFECT
JBell523 - July 29, 2009
Oh, great, now Jr. going to ground into a double play
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
I'm sorry I ever doubted you Ken
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
WHY DID YOU DO THIS JEFFREY SULLIVAN
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
TO GIVE GRIFFEY HIS MOMENT
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!
w00tah - July 29, 2009
WE ARE BACK IN THE GAME
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!
Goose - July 29, 2009
GRIFFDOG
Matthew - July 29, 2009
GRIFFDAWG*
Robert - July 29, 2009
HAHAHA GRIFFEY RIFFFETEIRGAPGIHAP
abender20 - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY
GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY GRIFFEY
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!!!!!!!!!!
CSD - July 29, 2009
FUCK YEAH!!!!!
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY'S BACK
I CAN’T WAIT FOR BOBBLEHEAD NIGHT!
katal - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!!!!!
Robert - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY DIDN'T FUCK UP HOLY CRAP
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEYGRIFFEY
Fin - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY AMERICAN HERO
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
How can Griffey look so lost for a month? Then comes up with two of his best swings of the year
off Halladay?
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
Griff es en fuego!!
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Rad
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
GRIFFEY!!!
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
THE BEST PITCHER ON THE MARKET IS JARROD FUCKING WASHBURN TAKE THAT AND REWIND IT BACK YOU CHUBHUNTERS
abender20 - July 29, 2009
What kind of shitty pitcher gives up 11 hits to our offense?
Matthew - July 29, 2009
The kind that isn't worth 4 top prospects.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
We'll offer you Jarrod Washburn for just 3.75 top prospects!
Matthew - July 29, 2009
So... two normal ones and Kyle Blanks?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
You don't like Kyle Blanks or defense accounts for .25 of a players makeup?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Your math is suspect
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Oops.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
You're not real good with math are you
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Get out of my head
abender20 - July 29, 2009
In front of a good defense, too!
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
There is no defense that could stifle Griffey
abender20 - July 29, 2009
NICE JOB ANTIQUES ROADSHOW!!!
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Would be complete wtih Jay, Gar, and Dan coming back from retirement to get at bats.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
RRS in line for the win again.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Now watch the bullpen blow it like they did for Washburn.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Go back to La Mirada
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Wait who live in La Mirada?
TheBishop - July 29, 2009
Angel fans
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Does he pitch the eighth?
I trust him more than anyone in our pen.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
He has been giving some liners
abender20 - July 29, 2009
With 89 pitches, I can imagine him coming back in.
The 7th sucked but other than that he’s been good.
appleshampoo - July 29, 2009
Haha now it is OUR kind of one run game
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
Needs more runs
calim - July 29, 2009
So can we get Wilson in there for the 8th?
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
2 doubles for the griff.
He didn’t even have to run that hard. .. or Wilson could be Griffey knees for an inning
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
That ball is way off the plate
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
It was a ball, yes.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Fuck, the EQC says that was a ball.
Fin - July 29, 2009
They also have AC.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Not.
A strike.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Bullshit call, ump
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
It's sad that Shelton had to be in the lineup today
calim - July 29, 2009
It's definitely not a strike
But he’s been calling it all night
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Also not.
A strike.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Jarrod Washburn 3rd in ERA again? Like that fucking matters.
brian_sun - July 29, 2009
Sadly the other GMs don't seem to think it matter either. Doesn't sound like contenders are offering much for him.
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
I'll take one B prospect for him.
russak - July 29, 2009
1. He's a 2 month rental. 2. I don't understand why the Yankees are even interested in him. A fly ball pitcher in that ball park is doomed
brian_sun - July 29, 2009
The Why doesn't matter from our perspective. If they are willing, great.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It really was much better when you didn't feel the need to share your opinion with the rest of us at every opportunity
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Define "every". I only posted 3 times today.
brian_sun - July 29, 2009
Well this is a lie
http://www.sbnation.com/users/brian_sun
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Fuck you Kenji
Rudy4three - July 29, 2009
Griffey likely was glad he didn't have to run any further.
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
Thanks for banning me for awhile there for not using the subject line. At another sbnation site no one uses it except for exclamations. Sorry I wasn’t in the know there. Now bite it.
blackvanilla - July 29, 2009
Bahahahaha
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
BAWWWWWW
danduke - July 29, 2009
Dear oh dear.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
It's been real.
Later gator.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
You're going places.
bluemax - July 29, 2009
A LA CAJA!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Hahaha
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Seriously
Jeff Sullivan - July 29, 2009
Other SB Nation sites blow
Bu-bye
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Seriously
It’s like a different world.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Buffalo Rumblings is solid...more or less the football version of this site...
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
Ha!
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
This is why I don't hang out at too many of the other SBN blogs
for teams I like. They’re just so painful to read.
Not that I’m a UW fan but I remember trying to read the UW blog and the lack of comment reply going on just drove me nuts.
bluemax - July 29, 2009
I like Field Gulls.
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Bloggingtheboys is very solid.
Stats oriented like LL.
houseofprime - July 29, 2009
That place was awesome last year when the Cowboys doinked.
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
Did somebody say my name?
Robert - July 29, 2009
ITS ALL ROMOZ FALT JESIKA SIMPSONJ
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
Watching Romo drop that snap live in person may have been the greatest sporting event I've ever attended.
Baseball will always be my first love but sweet jesus that was awesome.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
I blacked out for ~ 5 seconds and came to hugging some fat guy
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
I am so glad that I finally have an answer to this question.
(Sounders equalizer in US Open Cup Semi)
At least until I forget it again, but I could not pick out anything that trumped that before.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Yes the end of last year was quite unpleasant.
houseofprime - July 29, 2009
The only good football blog is Field Gulls
And our readers are out of control half the time. Though it has gotten better.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Half?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I'm being generous.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
Wait till September?
Robert - July 29, 2009
Please?
Robert - July 29, 2009
In September FG will be so bad. :(
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Because of the lack of a running game?
I feel your pain.
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
I think we will be surprised by our running game this year. Our starting 5 O-Linemen won't be on injured reserve to start the year.
Also, Julius and TJ are better than Hawks fans think. I think 7-9 is a worst case scenario, 12-4 is a best-case. I would not be shocked at all if we made it back to the playoffs. After all, how likely is it that we’ll lose our top 7 receivers, all 5 of our linemen, our starting QB for 8 games, our 2nd QB for 1 game, two of our LBs for 3 games, etc etc etc. for the rest of the year? The 2008 Seahawks, as referenced on FG, were historically unlucky with injuries.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
I agree with pretty much all of that. I think we'll be +/- 10 wins.
But I’m far from convinced that the RBs are sufficient for doing anything other than sneaking us into the playoffs.
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Oh they're not great by any means.
I expect league-average production out of them. Maybe 4.0 YPC, 15 TDs from the total group, and 1,700 yards? If Hass returns to moderate form, and the Defense improves, that’s enough for 7-11 wins with 6 as a worst case and 12 as a best case.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Uh. FG has pretty shitty commenters.
And I realize I myself am a shitty commenter probably 2/3 of the time. But you, JM, and Doug keep the main page content so good that I can’t stop reading.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Its been better since they got rid of that one guy.
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
Hee hee
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
You should have been banned just for liking the Thunder
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
The guy that runs WTLC has a giant glamour shot of himself on the front page.
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
You were not banned, you were warned.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
And you are still not using the subject line.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Sometimes I wonder how someone can see a subject line used on 1000 comments in game threads
then get warned about how we use it here, and then still not think they need to use it. Thousands and thousands of comments, each one with the subject line, and they act like this is totally new and we are picking on them.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
~
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Drive down to LA right now. I'mma get you pregnant.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Ain't he somethin?
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Patton!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
PATTON
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Yes?
Patton - July 29, 2009
LL doesn't judge a man by the color of his skin
It judges him by how well it can see him in the dark when he smiles
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
There are guides here.
Have fun no longer needing them.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Kenji Nojima
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Can anyone come up with any lineage where Jack Wilson knows somebody in the clubhouse?
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
He knows Whitey.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Also Griffey played against him a lot.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
He's an MLB player. So are the other guys in there.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I just think its possible he's sitting there like the new kid in class, not knowing anyone, and hoping to talk to the cute girl. (Gutierrez)
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
This is exactly what I envision happening
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Then he will ask Guti out on a date to play baseball
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
But it will be interrupted by other, mean baseball players who want to drink Guti's blood
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Then they'll go on a wild chase down the Pacific Coast
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Climaxing in an epic fight between the mean baseball players and Wilson in an abandoned dance studio
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
You've thought about this a lot more than I have...
But I appreciate it. I just hope that they win the big game in the end, down 7 runs in the 6th inning, but dammit they won’t give up.
We’re gonna need a montage.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
I'm like 96.5% certain this was a Twilight reference
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
I see your 96.5 and raise you 100.0000
abender20 - July 29, 2009
You're 196.5% certain?
I question your mathematics
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Question my poker instead
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I am
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
I would never get a Twilight reference.
Full Moon on the other hand, Im all over that.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson's mom's recorded voice will be used as bait
calim - July 29, 2009
Also, Guti's hot sister will be there
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
You need to go jump in the ocean
abender20 - July 29, 2009
This was fantastic
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Six degress of Jack Wilson?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
At least he and Chris Shelton have something in common.
Sundevil78 - July 29, 2009
I think Sweeney babysat his dog once
Grifey tickled him at the Allstar game I think
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
I think he was in Footloose with Kevin Bacon
Am I doing this right?
PDXTai - July 29, 2009
Ruh rohs....Lowe in
appleshampoo - July 29, 2009
He'd be a good basketball player
Triple double
danduke - July 29, 2009
Take the "IFFEY" out of GRRRRRRIFFEY and you just get "GRRRRRRR"
This is the greatest composition I have ever authored.
Attractive Nuisance - July 29, 2009
Add the "Eat" to the "GRRRRRRRR" and you get "GRRRRRRRRRRREAT!"
CapSea - July 29, 2009
Wow,
I can’t believe I missed that one. You are amazing just like me.
Attractive Nuisance - July 29, 2009
♥ Us ♥
CapSea - July 29, 2009
K!
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Nice pick by Shelton
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Goooo GGRRRRRR!
Goooo GGRRRRRR!
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
If you take the fe out of felix and take the nandez out of hernandez, you get lix her.
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
Hilarious.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Thanks, I'll be here all week.
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
Maybe.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Possibly not
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Can you just erase my comment please?
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
Thanks
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
GOD
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Hilarious, you are not.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
Yes he is.
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
I beg to differ.
Also, who asked you?
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
I think his reply was aimed at the original comment
abender20 - July 29, 2009
We protect Eyebrows like a sacred cow around here
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
It's just water weight, you insensitive brute.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Who will be sacrificed to the demons in control of the Angels.
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Yeah that'll work well for you.
Look what happened when we sacrificed Adenhart.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Too soon.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
He made this joke for the firast time in May.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
We made similar jokes in April.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
And you wonder why the Angels never lose...>_>
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Because their clubhouse chemistry got so much better without Adenhart in it?
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Guess so. Congrats on your win tonight.
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
You haven't been around LL in a while.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Guess not. :P
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
You're not a pitcher
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Neither is Adenhart anymore.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
Ding dong!
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Nope.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
We shall encircle him with stink eyes a blazin.
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
If your eyes are smelly and on fire maybe you should wash them
with some cool water. Try to not get any soap in them.
Eyebrows - July 29, 2009
It's a love / hate relationship.
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
He's extremely hilarious?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
What the shits?
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Apologies.
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
Whew
Aardsma in the ninth…I feel confident.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Nothing but sliders!
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
Thing of beauty!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Okay, now I need to go to White Castle.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
Don't do it!
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Nothing to do with my Indian heritage or my pot smoking habit.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
I'd rather have dosa, but that's just me
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Good dosas here in NJ. Well, dosa it is, then
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
mmmmmmmysore masala dosa. Now I'm jealous.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
All the way, man. The spices, they linger on your tongue for a good hour after you eat it.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
Now I want to go to Cascadia for HH.
waldo rojas - July 29, 2009
Methinks Lowe should demand Kenji
as his personal catcher…
edgar is good - July 29, 2009
Fast ball... faster Ball... Fastest Ball
Line out to guti
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
Hammerin' Jack is up woohoo
Looks like they got Bruce Lee’s son to pitch the 8th
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
Brandon League is white.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
And he generates more swinging strikes than called strikes.
abender20 - July 29, 2009
I've been out all evening and have missed two trades and a game?!
What is the general feeling of the trades? First glance, looks like an unusual trade considering our position as reloading?
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
I like em
Not as much as the dreamy thoughts we hoped for but I think definitely upgraded
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
I think Dave pretty much sums up my feelings.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
What did he say? I have to shoot in a few mins...
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
Overpay for Wilson/Snell, doesn't like Wlad trade at all
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
We get monies.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
I think Aardsma should get to wear his gladiator helm to pitch tonight
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
This game looks fun. Even if we didn't score 10 runs.
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
How did we get so many hits against Roy???
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
Am I foolish for not being disappointed with Wilson and Snell for a 26-year old with no position, a MIF who can't hit, and 3 maybe-they-will or maybe-they-won't A-ballers?
Honestly, I’m happy we’re winning without our new talent, and I think the deal is a slight M’s win, though not a great deal for us. But honestly…we’re beating Roy Halladay right now. And we got a high K reliever for a reclamation project like Wlad. We may have given up too much quantity, but I really feel like we gave up high-risk, high reward, for medium risk, medum/high-reward (Snell being the high reward) am I wrong?
Also, holy crap we are winning against Roy Halladay while starting Chris Woodward at SS and Junior doubled in the go-ahead runs. I feel getting a true MLB SS, a 3-4 SP for high-risk high-reward guys, and winning against Halladay with our over the hill DH delivring the big blow is a great day overall.
Also, why is Branyan sitting two straight days? Is he hurt? My news search is in German today and will be in Italian tomorrow, so it’s hard to understand what’s going on. A little help, guys?
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
His back is sore.
Scruffy Lefty - July 29, 2009
I agree with you about the trade
It’s not something that I’m really excited about, but I thought we did okay.
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
That's pretty much my thought. We got real upgrades at positions of need.
But, we may have gave up a little too much. However, it’s not a huge loss. We improved 2009 and 2010 at the cost of hurting ourselves in 2011 and 12 if the three A-ballers pan out. However, if they don’t we win the deal outright. Though I know evaluating deals at the time in better than evaluating them in retrospect.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Treating the A-ballers as irrelevent is as short sighted as people who think prospects don't matter in trades
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
It does feel like they're a collection of maybe 5s/likely RPs though.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
You could probably have squeezed one league average starter out of the three
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Wow, I think that's your 90th percentile.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Let's rephrase this:
I think that the value of that package will likely be around the equivalent of a league average starting pitcher for six years. This includes all of them as relievers, two of them as #4s, etc.
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
90th percentile from each?
seattlebruin - July 29, 2009
Not in my opinion.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I think that's a stretch.
90th percentile you get two of ‘em. Lorin/Pribanic weren’t getting GBs with like 85 MPH fbs.
Two #4s is possible. Maybe not exactly likely, but….
marc w - July 29, 2009
Pribanic was also running below average K rates in A ball as a college arm.
I liked him, but I don’t have high hopes for him.
If it was Adcock + one of Pribanic or Lorin, I think this would be looking like an even trade.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
I'd be happier with that
But I just can’t believe the Pirates had the leverage to demand this much. Snell told them he had no desire to pitch for them anymore. And they got ALL of Adcock/Pribanic/Lorin?
You’re right about Pribanic of course, but I think he made immense strides this year, and I feel there’s more projection there. He’s just not a finished/polished product. That and, uh, TONS of ground balls.
marc w - July 29, 2009
Didn't Jeff Weaver get a bunch of ground balls?
PositivePaul - July 29, 2009
Buds, Paul. Buds.
He was a fan of freshly ground bud, and always knew where to find some. But no, he wasn’t a GB pitcher.
marc w - July 29, 2009
That was my thought as well.
Pittsburgh will be happy if one of the three turns into a league average starter. If two pan out, we lose the deal. If three pan out, we did terrible in the deal. I guess the way I see it is, even if one pans out, we win. If two pan out, we lose slightly. If three pan out, we lose a lot. But at the time, if it’s not a slight M’s win, it’s a slight Pirates win. It’s not too lopsided in either team’s favor.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
I'm not calling them irrelevant.
I guess I feel that A-Ballers that are not blue chippers have upside as 3 starters if they completely pan out, 4-5 starters if they reach their mean, and are AAAA guys if they don’t. I feel they have value, but they are not extremely likely to reach their full potential.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Results based analysis.
You’re better than that, Brett!
katal - July 29, 2009
Well here's how I think it is.
Results wise, our 3 A-Ballers have done really well. However, looking at the track records of most A-Ballers, they’re not likely to become more than 3, 4, or 5 starters, if they make the majors at all. Clement will likely be an ~.800 OPS bat, Cedeno will be .600-700 with good D. The A-Ballers…I don’t feel too bad losing them. I feel a bit bad losing THREE of them. However, odds are, based on past history, only one of them is likely to pan out. At least, that’s how it feels. I have no problem admitting I’m wrong if people can provide evidence otherwise about A-Baller’s success (J/M/G?) but I feel that Pittsburgh is hoping that Clement hits, Cedeno is around a .700 OPS, not .600, and one of the three P’s pans out. I do think that is a tall order. I don’t think that’s results based. I don’t think it’s a steal for the M’s. But I really don’t think it’s bad for the M’s either.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
If only one of them is likely to pan out they have a 33% success rate.
67%^3=30% which would therefore be the likelihood of none of them panning out per your suggestion.
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Sure. But even if they have 30% success rate (if that's how I'm to understand it, I've had a bit to drink so I'm sorry if I don't
I don’t think that’s a bad deal for the M’s.
WIlson is what, a 1.5-2.5 win player? Snell may have upside as a 3.50 FIP (I mean, he’s young and around 4.30 career), 4.20 tRA guy? I think we’re going for risk as much as the Pirates. We gave up a quantity of potentially good players for a few guys that our (fairly smart) FO thinks may give us a bit more value. I think part of my optimism may be just blind trust in Jack Z, but I really don’t think it’s a bad deal. We’re not ripping the Pirates off, but it’s in the realm of slight M’s win to slight M’s loss. I don’t feel bad about the deal.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Um. Cost? Years of team control?
Some of these things are important
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
I understand that.
However, if they end up being #5 arms/RPs, a not unlikely scenario, how bad is it? If we lose 5 years of middle relivers and/or a #5 starter, how bad is that? Jack has assembled pretty good #5 arms and MRPs for pretty much nothing. I know we’ve only had three averageish RPs by FIP (White, Lowe, Aardsma) but getting #5’s/RPs under team control for a small amount of money doesn’t look like something that Z is bad at. I guess that’s why I’m not worried. I feel like he can replace this loss fairly cheaply. Yeah, we may have lost a #3 starter if Lorin totally pans out. But we have to keep risk in mind. And if he becomes a #3 starter, I will cheerfully admit that Z blew it, hard, on this deal. I just don’t see the risk/reward possibility as that bad on the three A arms. I keep saying—it’s not a GREAT deal. But to say it’s bad is overstating it, really. For it to be bad, the A-ball arms would have to become more than cheap #5’s or decent Middle relievers. It’s possible they will become more than that. But based on what I’ve seen of pitching prospects in my day, I really just expect the least from pitching prospects. That’s probably wrong of me to do. I think not hating,but not loving the deal is about right. It’s a good return that may look below average later. But it’s not a deal we’ll rue in the future, I don’t think.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
There was a quote in this weeks ESPN the magazine about how scouts have a term that goes something like "There is no such thing as a pitching prospect"
Because so few ever do what they’re supposed to do.
Kenny Knows Sports - July 30, 2009
That's BP's thing and TINSTAPP is dumb
Graham MacAree - July 30, 2009
*If* Snell works out, and is a 4.2 tRA guy
(and please note his career tRA is closer to 5, though there were extenuating circumstances like he hated everyone), we’ll be paying him $4.25 million next year and then a club option at $6.75m the year after.
IF we want our 1.5-2.5 WAR SS in Wilson, we’ll need to pay him $8.4M.
That’s what happens if everything works out. That’s not a terrible outcome or anything, but we traded ‘a ballers’ and Clement and Cedeno for a moderate chance of paying players around what they’re worth. Huh.
marc w - July 29, 2009
I haven't looked up Snell's tRA today, so I admit that I'm ignorant to that.
However his FIP is pretty solid. I’ll discuss this more tomorrow afternoon however. It’s 1:30 am here and I have to sleep.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
His FIP is around league averageish
It was 4.57 in ‘08 and 4.57 in ’09. Again, we seem to be betting on the notion that he’s much more like his career year in ‘07 (4.01 FIP), and that he’s been walking the world because he’s mad at Pittsburgh.
I’ve got no problem with that – he seems talented and all. But again, IF he’s able to pull it together a bit and get to league average in the AL (which would take a lot of improvement), then…. he’ll be paid exactly what he’s worth.
Again, he’s a good risk, but Pitt. had no leverage with him, and we seemed to give up a lot in order to assume that risk.
marc w - July 29, 2009
it's an annoying trade because it feels like we could have gotten more.
But because the pirates are also essentially paying their contracts the rest of the year, it’s not that bad. Wlad’s kind of sucks, but whatever. Also Branyan has back tightness.
CapSea - July 29, 2009
I also feel like we could've gotten more.
But I trust Jack to make the best trade available to us at the time. I feel if he could’ve brought back a Brignac/Kazmir package, he would’ve done it.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
I totally agree that Z would have taken Brignac/Kazmir had he been able to at a reasonable cost
That’s why Z is still cool
Corco - July 29, 2009
It's not a slight Mariner win
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
This man seems like he knows whats going on.
marc w - July 29, 2009
I trust you then.
I guess I just feel that unless two of Pribanic, Lorin, and Adcock actually pan out, we win. I’ve heard people say that Jeffie’s upside is .275/.360/.475…and as a catcher, that’s great, but as a 1B, not so much. Also, Cedeno is what, a 1-2 WAR player? I guess the reason I see it as a slight M’s win—at least for now—is because we gave up guys who may or may not make it to the bigs for guys who are sure upgrades now. I love me some prospects, but it seems we gave up C+ to B prospects, not A prospects to get solid MLB players now. And as much as I love Jeffie, I don’t see him as more than a B prospect. But I’d love to hear a more detailed take from you—I know I’m not half the analyst you are. Let me know why you think what you do? I’ve heard Jeff’s take, but I’d love to hear yours as well.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
If Adam Jones and Chris Tillman had busted the Bedard trade was great
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Why does everyone care that we gave up two A-ballers in that deal?
Tillman’s ERA was over five!
marc w - July 29, 2009
In High Desert and his other numbers and rates suggested that he would do better.
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
Sarcasm
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Dammit... I suck
Slurvey - July 29, 2009
I think this is different...
Lorin, Pribanic, and Adcock are high-risk, high reward guys. People knew Jones would be good. They knew Tillman would likely at least be not-terrible. I don’t see this package as comparable, because the three arms we gave up are all high risk, being in A-ball and all. As I’ve said, I don’t think this is an outright win for the M’s. But it’s not a loss. For 2009 and 10, it’s probably a wash or slight win. But you have to factor the risk of the A-Ballers we gave up as well as the reward. Like I’ve said, you’re a better analyst than I, but I don’t seriously believe that we overpaid drastically. Maybe a little. But not a lot.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Just because they are higher risk does not mean you suddenly don't care until you see their careers
It doesn’t make them innately valueluess
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
He's not saying they are valueless.
Just riskier.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
By saying that we'll have to wait and see how they pan out he is clearly saying he is unable to value them as we stand
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Well, what I've been trying to communicate (poorly, probably) is that Jack may not feel that they are likely to reach their potential.
If he’s wrong on them, well, we didn’t do too well in this deal. But if he’s right, we did. At the time of the deal, we are either slight winners or slight losers in my eyes. But I think Jack knows how to evaluate players, and the risk is probably why he was willing to trade them.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Exactly. They have value, and I recognize that.
But how many A-Ballers of that profile pan out? I think Jack Z is just hoping that they don’t pan out to improve for the next two years. Yes, it sucks to lose them, but I think he’s taking less risk for a higher chance of medium to above average reward.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Oh I care about their careers.
I’m not jumping for joy over the deal. But realistically, it’s unlikely that all three of the a-ballers pan out. If Clement becomes an .830 OPS 1B, and Ronny reaches a .700 OPS true talent level, and two of the three A-Ballers pan out then Pittsburgh won the deal. However, it has seemed in the past that high risk a-ballers don’t often pan out. If they do, results wise, we lose. I think Jack Z’s line of thinking is, however, that it’s not likely that all three pan out, and we’re adding wins against high risk A-Baller’s panning out. Like I said, it’s not a great deal, but I just feel it’s wrong to lament it as a BAD deal.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
How many WAR do you think Wilson/Snell will provide next year?
Is that worth losing 6 years of Clement and the probability of getting some contribution for the pitchers?
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
And how much will we pay them next year?
It’s sporting of Pittsburgh to throw in money for 09 (which is more than half over), but that’s not the point.
marc w - July 29, 2009
Best-case scenario?
Wilson is worth 2.5 WAR with a great year, and Snell is worth 3.0 WAR. Best-case scenario. At worst, Wilson is what, 1.5, and Snell is 2.0?
I love Clement. I almost bought a jersey. If he has a great year, he’s worth what, 3.0 WAR as a 1B? His bat is great for a catcher and average for a 1B as far as I’ve been told from great SABR analysts like you and J/M and Dave.
Cedeno? 1.5 if he can get to a .300 wOBA and play similar defense?
The 3 A-Ball arms are nice. But Lorin is a 3.0 WAR guy if all pans out, Adcock about the same, and Pribanic around 2.0? That’s if they reach their absolute upside, right? At least, that’s how I seem to interpret it from what I’ve read. Maybe I’m wrong. But it seems like, for 2009 and 2010, we win the deal. It’s possible Pittsburgh gets better value. But if we get 2 wins from Snell and Wilson this year, and 5 wins from the two next year, it’s not terrible. Pittsburgh’s return has higher upside, but significantly higher risk. If they all reach their potential, we lose the deal outright. But how likely is it that all of the players we traded reach their total upside?
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
At worst, Snell is in jail for murder and Wilson is out of baseball.
marc w - July 29, 2009
His own murder!
calim - July 29, 2009
This is the nature of trades like this
Of course the players we got are going to be more valuable over the next year and a half. Pittsburgh is trading for the future. But if they end up with a Clement and a Lorin as quality major leaguers under team control at a cheap cost, then they win the deal long-term. If Adcock or Pribanic also get to that level, it’s a wipe-out unless Snell is phenomenal here.
calim - July 29, 2009
Results based
Matthew - July 29, 2009
The point is
It’s really, really hard to grade a trade like this until you do have some results.
calim - July 29, 2009
Right. I know for 2009 and 2010 it's hard for us to lose.
I’m just saying that, it’s possible that we win beyond that too. Not necessarily likely, but it’s not a sure thing that even one of the three A-Ballers pan out. I think overall this trade is most likely to be a wash for us. But to call it great, or terrible, seems wrong to me.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
Sum six years each of Clement, Pribanic, Lorin, and Adcock
We clearly lose this deal long term. We also clearly win the deal for next year.
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Again, Clement and Cedeno aren't the stumbling blocks here.
marc w - July 29, 2009
Branyans back is sore. He'll be back soon
I think it was a relatively even trade. Wilson just made an appearance in the dugout. Introduced himself to Wak
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
Branyan's been sore lately.
I don’t like the trade; we gave up too much minor league talent.
katal - July 29, 2009
Awww Mike Sweeney hugged Jack Wilson
Corco - July 29, 2009
How cute.
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
"its ok...you can talk to Chris over here"
Pessimistic Optimist - July 29, 2009
Bless his heart!
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Wilson first meets Sweeney and Mike gives him a hug.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Its like Mike Sweeney is a more manly Joey Cora.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
I remember winning a game against Roy Halladay when Miguel Batista was the starter.
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
Ruh-ohs.
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
DAMN IT AARDSMA NO
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Ah shit
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Boned
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
Nah
Poochie - July 29, 2009
Why are there so many Blue Jays fans????
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
Vancouver not that far away?
TheOptimist - July 29, 2009
Yeah but you need a passport now
I would have assumed that would keep several Canucks north of the border
Corco - July 29, 2009
This. I noticed it last year too. Lots of "Let's go Blue-Jays" chants. So annoying.
BrettJMiller - July 29, 2009
We're near Canada?
okdan - July 29, 2009
Canada is not too far away.
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Seattle is close to Canada and the whole country roots for Toronto?
thewyrm - July 29, 2009
Toronto is televised in Vancouver
Corco - July 29, 2009
Brain damage
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Wait is Aardsma fucking up?
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Unclear which direction just yet
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Well crap.
Pitch better Aardsma.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
What the fuck is this? A Lets Go Blue Jays chant?
Goose - July 29, 2009
It's almost as bad as Boston fans
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Seattle fans are too nice
If it was Philly they’d go home in the trunk of their car
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
This is starting to look like another one of those terrifying Aardsma appearances
Tube - July 29, 2009
You mean like 3/4 of his appearances?
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
We should have traded for a closer instead
We’re doomed
tootthekazoo - July 29, 2009
Robert Manuel
Corco - July 29, 2009
Splitter here would be nice.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
THANK YOU
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
Kindly have a seat, Mr. Lind
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Who gets a viking helmet...
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Whew
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
Who owns the new Viking helmet?
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
couldn't be Bautista
He gets an ewok helmet
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
What a fine time for Gameday to freeze
Graham MacAree - July 29, 2009
2-2 count, 1 out, runner on first
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Thrid out ground out to Hannhan (SP)
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Swinging Strikeout
InSpokane - July 29, 2009
Sounders jerseys look so terrible on people who are not fit.
thewyrm - July 29, 2009
Isn't that the case with most jerseys?
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
So true.
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
As do Basketball Jerseys,
If you’re fat, Football and Hockey jerseys are your thing…
GoCougs - July 29, 2009
It is difficult to find a hockey sweater that doesn't fit better if you're fat.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Sanchez got traded to San Fran?
Goose - July 29, 2009
Sanchez who?
katal - July 29, 2009
Ohhhhhhhh.
katal - July 29, 2009
Apparently, I hadn't heard about that until Sims mentioned it just now
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Yeah, told to stay in SanFran.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
That would be convenient for him
Corco - July 29, 2009
Officially now?
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
5:46pm: Henry Schulman at the San Francisco Chronicle is reporting that it's a done deal, Sanchez straight up for a minor-leaguer. Stay tuned for the name.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Tim Alderson, shit
Two great trades by the Pirates today.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Goes to show, maybe they wouldn't have taken just anything for Snell.
drm1125 - July 29, 2009
WHAT
marc w - July 29, 2009
Well today is a good day to be a Pirates fan.
Goose - July 29, 2009
Wowzers.
I didn’t really get a lot of their earlier moves, but I think they’ve done some serious work today.
marc w - July 29, 2009
Giants did desperately need a 2B.
houseofprime - July 29, 2009
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
AARDSMARIFIC
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Damn, Pirates dealing everyone.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Just you wait until they make the WS
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
No one wants to wait that long.
katal - July 29, 2009
Jeff Clement's retires after this.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
It still amazes me how Aardsma misses so many bats...
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
Kirsten Schlewitz - July 29, 2009
I feel like Gameday is way behind, what's the base/out status?
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
Well nevermind.
Aaron Campeau - July 29, 2009
CASE CLOSED! THE DA!
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
WIN OVER HALLADAY!
w00tah - July 29, 2009
11 hits!
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
Case Closed!
WIN!
ThundaPC - July 29, 2009
Get crushed by the Indians, beat Halladay
of course. What else was I expecting?
Shawk - July 29, 2009
Hyaaa!!!
We Whooped on Halladay
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
WEEEEEEh
abender20 - July 29, 2009
CANADA SHOULD STICK TO BEING A DOMINION.
EnglishMariner - July 29, 2009
We won without Jeff Clement!
WOO
Corco - July 29, 2009
DA closes the case!!
MFAN - July 29, 2009
Clearly the moral of today's game is that RRS is superior to Roy Halladay.
Vatinius - July 29, 2009
AWESOME
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
GAME
abender20 - July 29, 2009
SELL SELL SELL SELL SELL
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Neat, a win.
Today is still disappointing.
Trade Washburn!
Goose - July 29, 2009
CALL THE YANKEES AND GRAB THEIR TESTICLES VICIOUSLY
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Uhh
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
For Washburn
abender20 - July 29, 2009
They just traded for Jason Hirsh.
Matthew - July 29, 2009
We got Jewed
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Not here.
katal - July 29, 2009
If the BoSox lose, we're back in it!
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
DA DA DA
royalcurve - July 29, 2009
Jack Wilson looks happy to be here, that's nice to see.
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
He's happy to be anywhere not Pittsburg
SebastianPruiti - July 29, 2009
WASHBURN FOR HALLADAY STRAIGHT UP
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
Buy/Sell!
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
Reload!
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Needs more
PositivePaul - July 29, 2009
I think all Snell needs to make him happy is a Sweeney hug
Whoopetydoo - July 29, 2009
HYPHEN!!
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
We are getting Beltre back soon?
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
Yes.
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
Man, our defense is extremely going to improve.
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
KC series.
w00tah - July 29, 2009
Kovacevic says it's Alderson?
abender20 - July 29, 2009
What the donkeyfuck
abender20 - July 29, 2009
Yeah
Pirates making great trades.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Holy shit
gregrabble - July 29, 2009
That's a hell of a return.
Susheel Ramasahayam - July 29, 2009
With these returns today
it makes me think we’ve got to be able to get something good for Wash.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Gameday melts at 100+
lemonverbena - July 29, 2009
I think we just traded for HI McDunnough
Welcome Jack Wilson!
rizzshairpiece - July 29, 2009
I loved that movie.
Fearless Frog - July 29, 2009
Do you have any balloons that blow up into funny shapes?
Not unless round is funny.
Sec 108 - July 29, 2009
The pirates are screwing everyone over.
russak - July 29, 2009
We got screwed?
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
No
But I think we got beat
calim - July 29, 2009
So the White Sox need a SP...
Matthew - July 29, 2009
Hmm...
Off to look up prospects!
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
Boston is loosing
But I don’t know why I care because there’snoway
calim - July 29, 2009
Why not keep hoping?
I still want to trade Wash, but there’s no reason not to hope for a miracle.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
You never know, as far-fetched as it seems.
M'sin.. - July 29, 2009
I do know how to spell, by the way
I don’t know why I decided to type loosing
calim - July 29, 2009
Scott Elbert scratched from his start in AAA
99% chance it has nothing to do with the Mariners, but the Dodgers were looking at starting pitching…
If not, could be a trade elsewhere. In which case it could still be moderately interesting, because Elbert is pretty good.
Fuckmikereilly - July 29, 2009
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