Slowly, Rob Johnson is gaining acceptance amongst our circles here. Why, I am not that interested in. Perhaps just enough time has passed for us to get used to the idea that he, Rob Johnson of all people, is our starting catcher that people have stopped caring. Another factor might be that with Jeff Clement gone to Indianapolis and Adam Moore and his .766 Tacoma OPS clearly not yet ready, there does not seem to be any other choice right? We know Kenji sucks. Right?
"Catcher's defense is not important" has become too much of a black and white mantra around here, another example of a nuanced and context-dependent assertion getting blown up into a mass media sound byte and applied all willy-nilly. Defense is important no matter the position. The deal with catchers is that
A) We cannot fully evaluate their defensive impact. We have two meaningful defensive metrics for catchers: how well they control the running game, and how well they block pitches (i.e. preventing wild pitches/passed balls). We have good solid understanding of these and how to translate these into runs.
B) Compared to other positions, the standard deviation amongst Major League catchers for the above mentioned metrics is just not that large. The best catchers at controlling the running game are usually around +5 runs per season, the worst -5. Ditto for blocking pitches. ~20 runs is the difference between the best and worst catchers.
Now, yes, if you paired up the worst in both with the best in both, you would get something around a two win difference. Two wins is big and meaningful, but that is also like Baseball Prospectus' old problem with replacement level players. To determine WARP, BP used to take a replacement level hitter (which they had a good measure of) and combine it with a replacement level fielder (which they had less of a good hold on) and use that to set replacement level for a player. That set the bar way, way too low because if you were at that level in both aspects, you were not hanging around Triple-A waiting for a job, you were in High-A if you were under 24 or else you were a coach.
In practice, the best and worst catchers in the Majors would be about ten runs apart in the defense that we could measure. Compared to other positions, that is tiny and thus defense is currently less measurably important of a factor at catcher than at another position on the field. Cleared up?
How does that apply to us now? League average caught stealing rates are stable at 26 to 27% each year recently. Kenji Johjima's rates have been 28%, 40%, 27% and 52% this year. That is remarkably good. Rob Johnson was bad in limited action last year, but is just under 30% so far this year, a fair number but still 10% behind Johjima's career rate. Even though that is a big difference in percentage, that still only translates to a handful of runs in Kenji's favor.
However, we have the other measurement that we have pretty well down; blocking pitches. Note that you should not just look at passed balls otherwise you let the scorekeeper into the mix. You want to consider both passed balls and wild pitches and, no surprise to those that watch Johnson futilely try to catch, this is where Johjima really shines compared to Rob Johnson.
Per nine innings caught, Kenji has rates of 0.38, 0.36, 0.34 and 0.34 passed balls + wild pitches. That might seem high, but the MLB average so far this year is just over 0.39 so Kenji comes in a little above average. Rob Johnson, on the other hand, yowza, has a career rate of 0.58, a whopping 0.22 more per nine innings than Kenji. Now, is that perfect? No, because we are not controlling for pitchers caught, but it is probably pretty close to washing out.
Thanks to Sean Forman, we have a figure to attach to each passed ball and wild pitch of 0.27 runs. For every nine innings caught to date, Rob Johnson has been about 0.06 runs worse than Johjima at the actual act of catching. Over the course of a typical 1,000-inning catcher season, that is 6.6 runs.
When you add up our two measures of catcher's defense, Rob Johnson falls about 8-10 runs behind Kenji, nearly a full win. That is a sizable gap to make up with in terms of hitting, and given their respective ZiPS' projections (.296 wOBA for Johnson, .294 for Johjima), that would equal just three-fourths of a single run over a typical catcher's season. Even their current wOBA*s (.286 for Kenji, .299 for Johnson) does not even the difference on defense.
It reads like I am trying to build a definite case for Kenji Johjima over Rob Johnson, but that is not really my aim here so let me include a couple important points. One, Rob Johnson is trending upward, his hitting is improving and he has age on his side. Kenji Johjima is clearly in decline, so while he seems like an obvious choice (by about 7-9 runs/1000 innings) at the moment, this is an always fluid analysis.
Secondly, this is based on the stuff that we can measure and it sure seems like Rob Johnson excels at everything that we cannot. The pitchers do love him, I will not deny that or deny that it has any effect at all, but I also think it has a massive hill to climb just to make them equal in value and I want people to understand what they are asserting when they claim that Rob Johnson is our best option at catcher.
8 recs | 40 comments
Has any work been done on framing pitches?
I know one of the knocks against Kenji is that he doesn’t frame pitches well. Could we look at called strike rates on the same pitch from the same pitcher and draw a useful conclusion?
I’m not really a Rob or Kenji fan, but I’d pick Rob over Kenji right now as I think this season is a lost cause and Rob has a higher ceiling for 2010.
PDXTai - August 14, 2009
I think Beyond The Box Score did a preliminary study a while back that measured called balls on pitches in the strike zone
and Kenji came out towards the bottom of that. But I don’t know if that’s repeatable, or how meaningful it is.
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
Wouldn't they have to compare the same pitcher/catcher combo
with the same umpire in the same ballpark. I would think the number of pitches that fit the category would be too small a sample to come up with any solid conclusions.
Jed MC - August 14, 2009
Yeah, it was in no way a conclusive study
It’s just the best we have, I think.
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
There would be no need to frame pitches with the new MLB robot umpires.
44FAN - August 14, 2009
Precisely!
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
Does it really matter that much who is starter and who is backup?
It seems to me that the best arrangement (unless you have a total stud) is to have one catcher who catches 3/5 of the time and another who catches 2/5. This keeps both catchers fresh and prevents fatigue. Given how small the difference is between Kenji and Johnson, does it really matter which one catches 3/5 and which 2/5?
b_rider - August 14, 2009
Yes.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
Great stuff
It really IS good to have a sense for how much work you’re asking the intangibles to do in this equation.
Still, I might take issue with the idea that the PB/WP data presents a ‘massive hill to climb’ for Johnson to be given the nod as the starter. On a per game basis, the measurable advantage for Kenji – on defense alone – is somewhere in the 0.09 runs or so. Johnson’s batting advantage does not overcome this, but it chips away at it – using the wOBA* (and a league ave. of .329 – not sure that’s right), the run advantage is in the 0.05 range ASSUMING that Johnson is a true-talent 0.58 PB/WP catcher going forward. At that point, you really aren’t demanding that ‘intangibles’ overcome some huge gap. This isn’t a massive hill. It’s there, it’s real, but it’s not a massive chasm like it used to be.
The trend is moderately important, but much MORE important (to me) is the idea that Johnson may be here for a while, and it’d be nice if he could start cutting down on PBs and work towards getting the wOBA near .310 or so. Kenji is not a part of this org going forward, and while the M’s still are on the fringes of a playoff chase, it’s not really clear right now that Johnson’s advantage with the bat doesn’t outweigh the PB problem. It’s close anyways, and I don’t mind if they let intangibles (or the pitchers) make the call at this point.
marc w - August 14, 2009
Whether you look at it per game or 1000 innings,
the math does not change.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
Rrrriiight, so...what was this in response to?
marc w - August 14, 2009
It seemed like you were restating the whole thing on a per game basis
and then saying the intangible stuff isn’t that big in that sense.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
Huh. Not my intent.
I just stuck with per game because of your measure on runs from PBs/WPs.
marc w - August 14, 2009
Ah, ok.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
Well we lost our only catcher with dreamy eyes so meh.
Slurvey - August 14, 2009
This is probably a dumb question,
but it seems like Rob Johnson throws out a lot more guys who aren’t trying to steal, but just get too far off the base. Is this in his CS%? Also, does the calculation take into account stealing 3rd base as opposed to stealing 2nd?
PlaySportsinSeattle - August 14, 2009
I think so, and no
The latter, though, generally isn’t worth much worry.
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
For the most part, yes and secondly, yes, the run values for CS are amortized across all situations.
It’s not a per case basis as that would be insanely noisy.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
At this point
Shannon Drayer’s two bits on the catching situation HERE, and HERE, caused me to be more at peace about Rob Johnson being the primary catcher.
The organization and even Rob Johnson himself are most certainly aware of his shortcomings. The rational seems to be that the things he needs to work on he can physically improve upon easier than trying to coach someone into building a great relationship with the pitching staff.
Then there’s the possibility that Rob Johnson can improve next year when he doesn’t go from trying to win a backup job to trying to be the primary catcher.
Hard for me to get annoyed with Rob Johnson these days. Given the current situation, it is what it is.
Still, it’s nice to be able to quantify roughly what we’re dealing with between Rob Johnson and Kenji Johjima.
ThundaPC - August 14, 2009
This is where I'm at.
He’s cheap. It seems upgrading at catcher would not the most efficient way to improve the team. I mean, does anyone really know what an undervalued catcher looks like at this point?
Manzanillos Cup - August 14, 2009
.
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
Like someone who can't catch a pop up?
CMC_Stags - August 14, 2009
He's putting up .241 BABIP for Indy so far
And is still posting a .283/.377/.696 line.
Though he’s played 10 games at 1B and 3 at DH. Though the Pirates do a have a bunch of young catchers in the org.
CMC_Stags - August 14, 2009
Seems like Tony Sanchez will get fast-tracked to the bigs and only as a catcher.
So we should assume Clement is probably a 1st baseman long-term if everything goes as the Pirates plan, yeah? In which case I would assume he’s not such a good commodity.
And then there’s that Doumit guy who probably has at least a few more years of club control left.
Kenny Knows Sports - August 14, 2009
Yeah, I guess the borderline "not-a-catcher" types could be considered undervalued.
I guess I’ve just come to accept that a lot of scouts seem to think that a good portion of a catcher’s value is tied up in things that we haven’t figured out how to (objectively) measure yet. How often to teams run out a great hit, poor defense catcher? Almost never – he’s always moved to another position. Wakamatsu has let us know numerous times that he basically looks at Johnson’s bat as a National League manager would look at a pitcher’s bat.
Manzanillos Cup - August 14, 2009
This was mostly just Graham bait
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
A lot of scouts used to/still evaluate a prospect based in part on his facial structure and how he 'looked' in a uniform.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is that baseball currently has a much lower tolerance for defensive catcher mistakes than it does for catchers making a lot of outs with their bat. This seems unreasonable, but it doesn’t sound like we’ll be the ones to buck the trend.
Manzanillos Cup - August 14, 2009
Anyway, none of this is going to matter in a couple years because Steve Baron!
Manzanillos Cup - August 14, 2009
Sucks
Graham MacAree - August 14, 2009
I wish I remembered where I put the non-choppy one
Poochie - August 14, 2009
But....HE HAS A GOOD CATCHER ERA!!!!!1!~
ARock - August 14, 2009
Well
That can’t hurt.
Steven was taken - August 14, 2009
Regarding PB vs. WP
I can understand the case for using them equally in the equation, since you definitely don’t want to the scorer’s decision play into it. But it seems pretty clear that not all PBs/WPs are created equal, some pitches really are wild enough that the catcher has little or no chance to catch the ball. It seems like it wouldn’t be that hard to have a UZR-like metric for catcher defense that is measured by someone watching the games and putting the “blame” on either the catcher or the pitcher. Aren’t the values for UZR recorded by actual people watching the games and grading defenders on a play-by-play basis? Granted it would be a lot of work to create a position-specific defensive rating, but it doesn’t seem like we’re that far off, if someone had the means to assemble such a statistic.
appleshampoo - August 14, 2009
You could probably put together a pretty good approximation just with PITCHfx data
Jeff Sullivan - August 14, 2009
It seems like you also have to factor in some sort of "presence" factor when evaluating a catcher's value.
And I’m sorry if I missed somewhere where “presence” is factored.
I’ll bring up again the recent Yadier Molina article in ESPN and how coaches and players talked about how a runner couldn’t take an extra step off first because of Yadiers skill in picking off runners. And you know when a guy who has a great caught stealing rate is catching compared to a guy who is awful at throwing guys out, they’ll obviously run more.
So I’m assuming that is also factored in when considering the run differential between the league’s best and the league’s worst? That bad catchers (and/or bad catchers in combination with slow pitchers) get run on more often than their opposites?
And I’m just asking in generalities, not in the Kenji v Johnson debate.
Kenny Knows Sports - August 14, 2009
It's factored in.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
Wait...what's wrong with Moore's .766 OPS?
Isn’t that pretty awesome for a catcher? Not that it means he should be called up today, but it sounds like you’re kinda down on him and I don’t really get why. If he can put up a .298/.347/.419 that in the majors, I’ll be super pumped.
DAMellen - August 14, 2009
Right but AAA isn't the majors and a .766 OPS in AAA at 25 isn't something to get excited about.
Especially not with the defensive issues Moore has.
Aaron Campeau - August 14, 2009
That is not awesome for a catcher
much less for, as Aaron points out, a 25-year-old in Triple-A with defensive problems.
Matthew - August 14, 2009
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