Ok, I know robot umpires is an unrealistic proposition,
but couldn’t they institute some sort of system to see who the best and worst umpires are, and move the worst ones to the minors while “calling up” the best minor league umps?
I have one question. Does each umpire create their own unique strike zone while learning their trade in the minors or do they wait til they get to the majors to do that?
PD: Can an umpire, regardless of service time, get demoted to the minors because of too many mistakes or consistently poor ball-strike calls?
MP: In a word, no. The system is not set up that way. We believe the best point of evaluation comes when the umpire is added to the staff. These guys trained for a substantial amount of time to get where they are. You need to hire the right people.
Reinforced in the Post Season by the cluase in the CBA that forces them to rotate the umps, so you don;t get the same one handling post-season chores two years in a row-- even if said ump is the best one for the job.
French got robbed between 9 and 11 times (the static strikezone Brooks shows makes me wonder about the close high and low pitches) and given maybe 2 strikes. Meanwhile Yankees pitchers were given 5-8 at best borderline strikes while only having 2 borderline calls made against them
And the SC game review shows the low pitch while the talking head is still yammering about Swisher's HR
and his remark (as we have just watched the pitch go low, and Langerhans heading to 1st on the walk, and then turning around in shock) is “Langerhans takes it like a man”.
Is it at the front of the plate? Where across the plane of the plate does it pick? It seems like that’s a slightly important detail. I do see a little bit of a curve that kind of looks like it goes through the square.
Plus isn’t that strikezone pretty standard for a left handed hitter. Isn’t it pretty well known that left handers have the strike zone shifted farther outside for some reason? Yeah here’s the article.
I like human umps so maybe i’m irrational and bias.
That’s kind of a result of human inability to call a truly accurate strikezone. In a perfect word (where robots call balls and strikes) it probably should be the same zone for all batters regardless of handedness.
Lefties just don’t deserve an equal chance cause they already got spoiled getting an easy track to the majors. I will favor an unequal strikezone on the stance that they deserve to get screwed out of spite since I can’t throw with my left hand.
I don't really care whether it's "standard" or not.
The strike zone is the strike zone because it’s exceedingly difficult to make decent contact outside of it. Forcing hitters to swing at pitches outside of the officially defined strike zone because, well, fuck them they should be used to it by now, is insane.
Still have the umps there to make the calls, but give them a device inside their mask (a little screen, indicator lights, whatever) telling them where the pitch is, according to Pitch f/x or a better technology to be delivered down the road. If they deviate more than X amount from what the computer says over a given period of time, they get “retrained” or demoted or canned.
That way, you satisfy the people who like the “theater” of human umps (I’m surprised these people exist, but I guess there’s a reason Angel Hernandez is still around) and the people who want a game called consistently and correctly.
Aren't the upper and lower limits of the strike zone in pitch/fx determined by people?
I mean, I thought the pitch was low, but when I rewound the game and looked at the pitch from the side view it looked like the top of the ball hit the bottom of the lower of the batters knees.
What bugs me about the pitch/fx coverage is that it’s not all as precise as people think it is. If the entire strike zone was determined by infallible machines then it would be a lot more palatable to me, but since it’s just a couple of staffers deciding the top and bottom of the box, it seems kind of strange to hold it up as the end all be all.
You’re taking issue with pitchf/x because it isn’t perfect, despite the fact that umpires calling balls and strikes are way worse? That’s a bit of a call to perfection fallacy, isn’t it?
Do you go off of the higher knee or the lower knee?
Is that even specified in the rules? From what I can see it isn’t but I could be wrong.
If you draw the red line in the bottom two pictures from the bottom of the knee, which I guess would be where the hollow below the kneecap is, the line is quite a bit lower.
We should compile a comprehensive list of the most egregious calls made by the umpires in the last few years of pitch fx info. Then put it all into a easily understandable package and ship it to every team’s front office, the MLB front office, the players Union and the Umpire’s Union. It wouldn’t accomplish anything, but it would be cathartic.
That was such bullshit
Everyone in my living room was yelling at the TV. >:|
section331 - August 15, 2009
Ok, I know robot umpires is an unrealistic proposition,
but couldn’t they institute some sort of system to see who the best and worst umpires are, and move the worst ones to the minors while “calling up” the best minor league umps?
I Lick Squirrels - August 15, 2009
The idea of unions it nice, but in application they often suck balls.
The part where they circle the wagons for the scrubs is the part that sucks the hardest.
Kermit. - August 15, 2009
Here is Mike Port talking about how they watch umps, back in May
he’s the VP for umpiring for MLB
msb - August 15, 2009
Brilliant!
Kermit. - August 15, 2009
`
I sense a flaw in the system.
BrianL - August 15, 2009
Reinforced in the Post Season by the cluase in the CBA that forces them to rotate the umps, so you don;t get the same one handling post-season chores two years in a row-- even if said ump is the best one for the job.
msb - August 15, 2009
Hmm.
I should have proofed that, just a bit.
msb - August 15, 2009
Wow, the picture on the left shows how much of a fucking obvious ball it was
gregrabble - August 15, 2009
Its not where the ball is when it hits the catcher's glove
Edgar for Pres - August 15, 2009
Yes and that picture demonstrates that it was clearly low when it crossed the plate
gregrabble - August 16, 2009
I think C.B. has lost it at this point.
The players don’t even seem mad anymore. It’s almost comical.
Geeves72 - August 15, 2009
It almost makes me question my commitment to baseball when subjectivity can entirerly dictate the outcome of a game.
JLC - August 15, 2009
Hockey!
Matthew - August 16, 2009
C.B. has always been a miserable little cocksocket; this picture just provides convenient scientific proof.
Spoomeister - August 15, 2009
Blood
I want blood
Poochie - August 15, 2009
If you go to Brooks you feel worse
French got robbed between 9 and 11 times (the static strikezone Brooks shows makes me wonder about the close high and low pitches) and given maybe 2 strikes. Meanwhile Yankees pitchers were given 5-8 at best borderline strikes while only having 2 borderline calls made against them
Malcontent1 - August 15, 2009
This pisses even me off.
royalcurve - August 15, 2009
You have a pro-burly-white-man bias, though.
Teej - August 16, 2009
I do? I have to take a good look at myself.
royalcurve - August 16, 2009
And the SC game review shows the low pitch while the talking head is still yammering about Swisher's HR
and his remark (as we have just watched the pitch go low, and Langerhans heading to 1st on the walk, and then turning around in shock) is “Langerhans takes it like a man”.
msb - August 15, 2009
Sometimes it's pretty obvious that whoever is editing the video together for ESPN
knows a hell of a lot more than the people paid to talk about it.
Fuckmikereilly - August 15, 2009
How does Pitch f/x pick where to draw the circle
Is it at the front of the plate? Where across the plane of the plate does it pick? It seems like that’s a slightly important detail. I do see a little bit of a curve that kind of looks like it goes through the square.
Plus isn’t that strikezone pretty standard for a left handed hitter. Isn’t it pretty well known that left handers have the strike zone shifted farther outside for some reason? Yeah here’s the article.
I like human umps so maybe i’m irrational and bias.
Edgar for Pres - August 15, 2009
I believe it puts it on the front plane of the plate
meaning that if that pitch crossed the front plane below the zone, it definitely crossed the entire plate below the zone.
BrianL - August 15, 2009
And concerning the lefty strikezone
That’s kind of a result of human inability to call a truly accurate strikezone. In a perfect word (where robots call balls and strikes) it probably should be the same zone for all batters regardless of handedness.
BrianL - August 15, 2009
Nah
Lefties just don’t deserve an equal chance cause they already got spoiled getting an easy track to the majors. I will favor an unequal strikezone on the stance that they deserve to get screwed out of spite since I can’t throw with my left hand.
Edgar for Pres - August 15, 2009
I don't really care whether it's "standard" or not.
The strike zone is the strike zone because it’s exceedingly difficult to make decent contact outside of it. Forcing hitters to swing at pitches outside of the officially defined strike zone because, well, fuck them they should be used to it by now, is insane.
Aaron Campeau - August 15, 2009
The strikezone is actually shifted not expanded
Which might make it easier for them since they don’t have to worry about inside pitches getting called strikes.
Edgar for Pres - August 16, 2009
I'm used to pitch #2
It’s pitch #6 that’s insane. Not only is it well below the rulebook strike zone; umps don’t even CALL the lower border of the rulebook strike zone.
Jeff Sullivan - August 15, 2009
Not to mention
How many times lately our pitchers haven’t gotten the low strike call on pitches that were a heck of a lot closer than that one was.
Jeff Nye - August 15, 2009
Yeah i agree
Its a shitty pitch. It sucks to get screwed. Its annoying. I just can’t really imagine the game with a computer for an ump.
Edgar for Pres - August 16, 2009
Honestly, I like an idea I've seen posted before
Still have the umps there to make the calls, but give them a device inside their mask (a little screen, indicator lights, whatever) telling them where the pitch is, according to Pitch f/x or a better technology to be delivered down the road. If they deviate more than X amount from what the computer says over a given period of time, they get “retrained” or demoted or canned.
That way, you satisfy the people who like the “theater” of human umps (I’m surprised these people exist, but I guess there’s a reason Angel Hernandez is still around) and the people who want a game called consistently and correctly.
Jeff Nye - August 16, 2009
That's an interesting proposal.
In-game feedback to the umps could do a lot to improve their zone calls.
BrianL - August 16, 2009
Yes let's punish players for your utter lack of imagination
What a lovely idea
Graham MacAree - August 16, 2009
Aren't the upper and lower limits of the strike zone in pitch/fx determined by people?
I mean, I thought the pitch was low, but when I rewound the game and looked at the pitch from the side view it looked like the top of the ball hit the bottom of the lower of the batters knees.
What bugs me about the pitch/fx coverage is that it’s not all as precise as people think it is. If the entire strike zone was determined by infallible machines then it would be a lot more palatable to me, but since it’s just a couple of staffers deciding the top and bottom of the box, it seems kind of strange to hold it up as the end all be all.
Smegmalicious - August 15, 2009
They decide where the strike zone is based on the rulebook definition of the strike zone.
That’s about a million times better than what we have now.
Aaron Campeau - August 15, 2009
The umps also try to do that, right?
I mean it’s not like the umps are out to screw us.
Smegmalicious - August 15, 2009
Umpires are way worse at calling balls and strikes than pitchf/x is.
BrianL - August 15, 2009
It is theoretically what they try to do but compared to pitch/fx they suck giant balls at it.
It’s not like someone is just glancing at the monitor and winging it. It’s pretty damned accurate.
Aaron Campeau - August 15, 2009
I'm not entirely sure I follow.
You’re taking issue with pitchf/x because it isn’t perfect, despite the fact that umpires calling balls and strikes are way worse? That’s a bit of a call to perfection fallacy, isn’t it?
BrianL - August 15, 2009
No, I'm just saying the pitch/fx isn't perfect.
I get that umpires make mistakes, but pitch/fx gets talked about like it’s infallible, and it’s not, particularly on high and low pitches.
Smegmalicious - August 15, 2009
Pitch FX is something like 15% more accurate
Poochie - August 15, 2009
Now this is just on principle
Jeff Sullivan - August 15, 2009
Do you go off of the higher knee or the lower knee?
Is that even specified in the rules? From what I can see it isn’t but I could be wrong.
If you draw the red line in the bottom two pictures from the bottom of the knee, which I guess would be where the hollow below the kneecap is, the line is quite a bit lower.
Smegmalicious - August 16, 2009
I guess this is what I'm trying to say:
This is where I would think the bottom of the strike zone is, but the rules seem pretty damned vague.
Smegmalicious - August 16, 2009
From what I understand the zone is determined by the batter's stance as they're prepared to swing
not while they’re in the process of swinging or check-swinging.
BrianL - August 16, 2009
It's not specified
What matters is that Bucknor called a strike on a pitch that umpires pretty much never call a strike.
Jeff Sullivan - August 16, 2009
Oh, what the heck.
For old times sake.
ThundaPC - August 16, 2009
Sadly my photoshop skills have not improved since the last time I updated that thread.
Goose - August 16, 2009
An idea.
We should compile a comprehensive list of the most egregious calls made by the umpires in the last few years of pitch fx info. Then put it all into a easily understandable package and ship it to every team’s front office, the MLB front office, the players Union and the Umpire’s Union. It wouldn’t accomplish anything, but it would be cathartic.
thewyrm - August 16, 2009 via mobile
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