(And I don't think you should get angry either)
The news broke today that Mark McGwire, the penultimate holder of the single season home run record, has admitted using steroids during the 1998 season. I'm sure that everyone remembers the epic battle he had with Sammy Sosa that year: between the two of them there were 136 home runs hit that season. I wasn't even a baseball fan back then, but I clearly remember reading articles about the chase for Maris's title all through the summer and into the fall. Exposure to the home run race was completely unavoidable, even if you weren't actively following sports at the time.
The articles I remember reading weren't just about a number falling, though. They were about baseball's resurgence. 'This is just what baseball needs', they said. After the 1994 strike, baseball required a compelling story to rebuild itself, and what better story than the hunt to break one its most hallowed records? It was true, as well. Per game attendance reached pre-strike levels for the first time that year. The home run chase made baseball relevant again.
And now that's tainted. Granted, we already knew that McGwire and Sosa were heavily implicated with cheating, but today's announcement makes it official. The duel between those two that helped mend baseball? Done with corked bats and performance enhancing drugs. Takes a bit of the shine off of their collective achievement, no?
Many, many people are going to use this news as an opportunity to vilify Mark McGwire. Honestly, I think that that's a load of crap. While it's true that McGwire doing steroids set a horrible example to children, I know exactly zero people my age who decided to start roiding when it turned out that one of their heroes was cheating (and trust me, I was at an impressionable age). McGwire hurt exactly one person, and that is Mark McGwire. I assume Sosa was on PEDs too, so same for him. Integrity of the game? Baseball didn't care.
My opinion is that most players in the late 90s/early 00s were on PEDs in one form or another. We know that the fringe players were cheating. We know that the superstars were cheating. I don't have any problem assuming the average players were doing the same (otherwise they wouldn't have kept on being average). Drug use appears to have been systemic and cultural, and with the public and media attached to power and asking endlessly for more home runs, I find it very difficult to blame a player for caving to the pressure and taking illegal (sort of) performance-enhancers.
Certainly, there are those who stayed clean. These players have a lot to be proud of, and they alone possess the right to be angry about the steroid era, because they alone were hurt by it. The fans demanded home runs. The media drooled over the stories. MLB needed supermen to rebuild itself after a strike year. More or less everyone was in favour of the results that PEDs generated and they weren't interested in the hows or whys.
The players who cheated? They were actors, not real villains. The rest of us are the ones who wrote the script.
14 recs | 258 comments
No one cared when it was discovered that McGwire was using performance enhancers in 1998
it seems a wee bit hypocritical to all get uppity about it 5 years later
Poochie - January 11, 2010
I cared
He cheated. Of course, so did many others but that doesn’t dismiss it. As far as I’m concerned, Maris still holds the record for 1 season and Aaron is the all-time leader. That’s the world I choose to live in. If I wanted to see steroid jocks I’d go watch WWF or whatever they call it now. I’ve already given up on the NFL & NBA.
algionfriddo - January 12, 2010
You do realize that Aaron was on amphetamines ("greenies"), correct?
And there were no testing to say that Maris wasn’t as well? You might as well give up on the MLB, too.
Your argument, and the accompanying statement of closemindedness says to me that you touch children inappropriately on the bus. That’s the world I choose to live in.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Let's not turn this all flame war-y please
pdb - January 12, 2010
People can say they care about cheating and whatever, but I like to poke at the walls people put up.
I was done after that comment, but your point is taken.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Aaron cheated.
Teej - January 12, 2010
I'm cheating at work today by using an addictive drug to help me stay focused.
Drinking this much caffeine is not good for my body, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to get fired for falling asleep at my desk while everyone else is getting work done.
Teej - January 12, 2010
I WILL NEVER LOOK AT THE NEWS THE SAME WAY AGAIN
I WANT MY INNOCENCE BACK
pdb - January 12, 2010
Just wait until SB tells you about the time he drank a Red Bull.
You’ll see the defense industry in a completely different light.
Faux - January 12, 2010
I drank caffienated tea this morning
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
I also shared the illicit substance with one of my coworkers
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Last week, I couldn't get any work done because of a headache, so I took Tylenol to enhance my work performance
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Last week I couldn't get any ass so I snorted coke and I still couldn't get any ass
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
SSS, needs more data points.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Aren't we all cheating by using science to help tell us what's good and bad for us in our daily diets?
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Oh, no, I'm part of the problem?
SAY IT AINT SO
Faux - January 12, 2010
I'm trying to figure out
How amphetamines and anabolic steroids are in the same class. Because in pharmacology, they’re not. At all.
This is not an argumentative statement, I am genuinely curious.
section331 - January 12, 2010
They both enhance performance. Steroids do it one way, coke another.
McGwire had his horse of choice, and out there there’s someone drinking a bottle of daytime cold medicine to stay awake longer to work out more.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Cheating in MLB does not depend on the type of pharmacology
The use of any substance perceived to give a performance enhancement is what’s against the rules.
pdb - January 12, 2010
Understood
I see – if we are making this an argument about time periods, then I guess it makes sense. People are jumping around a lot, though, so it’s difficult to tell what various points are being made. When people bring this topic up, it often sounds as if they are linking amphetamines with anabolics; just needed some clarification.
Daytime cold medicine puts my ass right out; ugh. Drink some tea. :p
section331 - January 12, 2010
I just see them as drugs that help you do your job better.
My main point is, we can’t accuse one group of players of cheating and being evil while conveniently ignoring that players have always gone to certain extremes to continue playing the game at the MLB level.
When I say “Aaron cheated,” I don’t really think we should hold it against Aaron; I’m just pointing out that if McGwire is a rotten cheater, so were a huge chunk of baseball players during the “good old days” when all athletes saved babies from fires and traded their jerseys for Coca-Cola.
Teej - January 12, 2010
Haha!
I missed out, apparently…
I guess I might argue that building fast twitch muscle fibers isn’t really the same as simply being able to stay awake/alert longer (not to mention that the “alertness” caused by amphetamines is of dubious nature). Yes, they are two forms of cheating, I suppose, but one is a a bit more of an advantage over the other, I would think?
Again, please don’t construe what I’m saying as being argumentative. I missed out on all of this business altogether, so I’m relatively new to whatever points people might be making.
section331 - January 12, 2010
No worries at all.
I don’t know anything about steroids or amphetamines. But people took them for a reason, so I’m inclined to believe both have helped major leaguers perform better, whether through strength, reaction speed, alertness or endurance. To the degree that one is worse than the other, I have no idea. I think it’s a hard line to draw, and it’s impossible to know who was helped how much by what substances, so I just assume everyone’s a cheater and stop worrying about it.
Teej - January 12, 2010
The best part is the purists who want players to try really hard to win hate steroids
yet the players took steroids to allegedly help themselves get better at baseball when it wasn’t banned by the rules
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Amphetamines
Were first created to find a synthetic adrenaline. Anabolics are specifically prescribed for patients with wasting diseases. Both have negative long-term effects, depending on the length/dosage.
It is definitely a hard line to draw, but what I do know is that taking prescription medication without a prescription (which is what these guys were doing, as it is illegal in the US to prescribe anabolics for muscle-building – or, at the very least, it is in the state of Washington) is a felony, and any one of us would have done over a year in jail + harsh fines for it. Part of me really doesnt’ care, and the other part is annoyed that they got away with it, since “normal” folks would likely see some time.
section331 - January 12, 2010
It was the best thing available then.
Now there are gene treatments and blood doping technologies that make steroids look like using a sledgehammer to drive in a thumbtack.
But at what time period do you draw the line and say the drugs of choice weren’t actually helping players? That’s the question that people who want to push the issue should be asking.
Faux - January 12, 2010
I think I agree with this
I just keep remembering something Jeff said quite some time ago (I think it was Jeff), about how anyone could inject themselves with a needle, but it took some degree of creativity to hide sandpaper in one’s glove, or doctor the ball/change one’s footing/whatever else is “against the rules” “before” the age of widespread drug use (that we know of).
section331 - January 12, 2010
Quite frankly, ballparks are smaller, the ball is more tightly wound, and stadiums are designed to help the ball carry
all of these things contribute just as much to extra home runs as steroids. Also, he didn’t cheat baseball. If it’s not in the rules, it’s not cheating.
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
They're the heroes baseball needed then, and we cast them away once it came to light.
I’ve never been incredibly angry at people using PED’s because I know the feeling that is to never play the sport you love again, or the pressure to succeed. They cheated and that’s that but I can’t bring myself to fully hate them, it’s a dark time yes but I guess I can understand why they did even though if I don’t like it at all.
Slurvey - January 11, 2010
Agreed fully.
As part of our culture of baseball and storytelling, we and future generations should always understand that there’s a certain context under which every event happens. Having that knowledge and applying it when evaluating the past seems a lot more reasonable than pretending this was the first generation in which players cheated and/or took drugs. We can’t just ignore a whole era because we’re disappointed by what we saw or embarrassed by what we encouraged.
Baseball saw a lot of hitting records broken during a time when parks became friendlier, the ball became livelier and players were taking PEDs. Armed with that understanding, we don’t need an asterisk and we don’t need a witch hunt.
Teej - January 11, 2010
What I don't get is why coming clean about it is somehow worse than keeping it a secret.
OlSalty - January 11, 2010
He could have just as easily lied and said all I ever took was andro
Poochie - January 11, 2010
Exactly
He could’ve pussied out like some other people and said he only did it once or something. But he didn’t. Give him credit for that at least.
OlSalty - January 11, 2010
And there wasn't even a positive test or another form of proof
The difference is that the righteous feel betrayed by McGwire and they don’t feel the same way about A-Rod, Giambi or Any Pettitte
Poochie - January 11, 2010
Because maybe they don't want their entire career to be tainted,
By taking it you can argue that they were screwing themselves over in the first place. Don’t want to do the time don’t do the crime.
Mark McGwire was an extraordinary athlete who had many accomplishments many he just didn’t want that all taken away from him if he came clean.
Slurvey - January 11, 2010
I was referring to the response to him coming clean though
OlSalty - January 12, 2010
Well-stated.
stupidquestions - January 11, 2010
Thank you.
As a St. Louis native (now Ballardite) who saw 62 and 70 in person, who fell in love with baseball that year, it’s been hard to see Big Mac go through this. You state my current position exactly: he succumbed to the pressures of greed and desire for fame, joined the culture around him, and cheated… just like everyone else.
McGwire certainly is not innocent, certainly not above reproach… but certainly classy enough to protect his family from grand jury inquiry, plead the fifth when he had to, and admit what we all suspected when he certainly had no need to come clean. A man with serious flaws and regrettable mistakes, but deserving of some respect for his ability to hit a baseball and ability to finally come clean.
JDubs - January 11, 2010
Somebody send this
To Brian Williams.
wandergeist - January 11, 2010
Apparently my stance on the issue is somewhat unique:
I don’t give a shit what these guys did before, but I think there should be a crackdown on PEDs that cause harm to athlete’s bodies permanently. Anything that doesn’t kill them is fine, but dangerous/unregulated stuff has to go. My reasoning: thousands of kids and minor leaguers are causing lasting injury to their bodies because it’s impossible for most of them to have even a dream of reaching professional sports without them (and even with them). Let’s say that even now over half of baseball players are on something, and it’s putting those that don’t to a huge disadvantage.
Why these PEDs should be banned:
Imagine you have a kid who’s a high school baseball player and pretty damn good. He’s not quite big or strong enough to really catch the eyes of scouts, but he has solid contact skills and a big league swing. He knows that almost everyone in the MLB is using, and if he doesn’t it puts him at a severe disadvantage. There is virtually no discouragement, even today, for him to not use PEDs.
How I want it to happen:
Take blood samples of every major and minor league player twice per year at random intervals, store them, and test them retroactively as new PED detecting tests are developed. That way players will be discouraged to take even the undetectable new designer drugs. After that, impose quickly escalating penalties and fines that actually discourage these guys.
What happened in the past happened in the past. It was good for baseball and I’m ok with that. I’m ok with PEDs, too, as long as they don’t harm the athletes long-term. I want to see the best baseball ever: faster pitchers, quicker swings, longer homeruns, all of it, but I also don’t want to see the guys who care about their bodies to be penalized for not using drugs that hurt themselves. I don’t want thousands of kids to hurt themselves by using these drugs in imitation of the stars, either. We all know what kind of damage the NFL has done to high school players, right?
As for McGwire, HoFer without the PED issue but I can see arguments against him being a HoFer if you’re really one of those people who cares a lot about longevity or a block of dominant years or something.
lailaihei - January 11, 2010
There is no way players would ever in a million years agree to blood testing twice a year.
Robert - January 11, 2010
The White Sox were going to not take any of the drug tests in the probationary year of testing
In order to force MLB to start doing full on testing.
I think this is the largest failing of the MLBPA – protecting the members who were cheating over the best interests of the players who were clean. This then creates an environment where to be competitive; you have to take potentially harmful drugs.
Wouldn’t it have been in the players’ collective interest to enforce tough testing in order to keep their house in order? And economically speaking, they could still use allowing greater testing as a chip to be traded for a concession from ownership in bargaining.
CMC_Stags - January 12, 2010
How much credit should the home run chase get for helping baseball to recover?
It seems that it would be a difficult thing to prove, like saying that Ken Griffey would put butts in seats.
Janic - January 11, 2010
It may be difficult to prove
but I vividly remember the summer of 1998, because I was doing a lot of traveling for work that year, and in every city I went to – big cities, small towns, none of which had baseball teams of their own – all people could talk about as far as sports went was McGwire/Sosa. It was pretty awesome.
pdb - January 12, 2010
I was seven years old at the time
And without a doubt that’s what first got me interested in following baseball
CKel - January 12, 2010
So you were juicing at 7?
Dude.
pdb - January 12, 2010
I am going to disagree with you on this one Graham
Steroids are illegal in the US. They have long been banned by the Olympics. McGwire knew what he was doing and did it anyway. I don’t feel sorry for him, just like I do not feel sorry for Madoff.
Graham, maybe you don’t know anyone, but then then again, it is not like people that do would tell you either.
There was an “Outside the Lines”a few years ago that had a survey that a lot of HS athletes were taking PED’s because professional’s were using them and they wanted to be professional.
I’ve read stories where college athletes were doing it because they thought others were doing it and needed it to keep up.
Sorry, I just do not buy your argument.
Coug1990 - January 11, 2010
Here's my tidbits.
Being a HS student I know the athlete crowd would do generally anything to make sure they’re in shape be in Creatine or someother god knows what product. Could it be tied to pro athletes? Maybe but that’s generally the copeout answer I hear and quite frankly it pisses me off. There’s a pressure to succeed and they cave in and when they get caught they throw the blame else place.
I’m not saying Mark McGwire is an exception he cheated and Graham knows that. We’re blaming him for the wrong reasons and quite frankly blowing it out of proportion as well.
Slurvey - January 11, 2010
It does make it easier when popular people do something
Or why else do people do such stupid things on reality shows. You are right that everyone should take responsibility for their own actions. But, two wrongs do not make it right.
Coug1990 - January 11, 2010
Plus athletes in general are the type of people who would naturally take PEDs in order to get better.
Regardless of whether those above them were or not.
Mariner John - January 11, 2010
The Madoff comparison is ludicrous.
Nothing Mark McGwire ever did put anyone else directly at risk. He didn’t ruin anyone financially for his own gain, he didn’t set out to defraud thousands of people/organizations, etc.
Aaron Campeau - January 11, 2010
They were both cheats that I do not feel sorry for.
Everyone can try to justify what he did in this thread because he was exciting or he hit long home runs, but that is all that is occurring. McGwire broke the law. I don’t feel sorry for him.
If you don’t like Bernie, pick someone else, that is fine. There are cheats all around.
Besides, he did defraud all the players that were clean. He did defraud every fan of teams that he helped beat.
Coug1990 - January 11, 2010
If you don't think that every single team in baseball had multiple PED users during his career you're kidding yourself
Aaron Campeau - January 11, 2010
Maybe, maybe not
Again, he cheated all the players that weren’t using PED’s. That all teams had teams had players using PED’s as a justification would be like saying that I stole $1000 from a bank compared to you stealing $25,000, so I am innocent.
Sorry, I don’t accept you reasoning. (and I know that you don’t have too)
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
The problem with your argument is that the parallels are unrealistic
and you’re neglecting the fact that steroids weren’t against the rules when he took them.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
They were against US Law
If he would have been caught, he would have been arrested. He would not have done any jail time, but he likely would have gotten a slap on the wrist.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Technically there's only a law against possession
If someone else shot him up, he committed no crime.
I just don’t see why we baseball should come down on him for something that wasn’t against baseball’s rules.
GJS - January 12, 2010
That's really the key
I’m very much against PED’s philosophically. But if a substance wasn’t against the rules when a player used that substance, then it isn’t fair to retroactively penalize him. It’s a moralizing which hunt.
lemonverbena - January 12, 2010
Of course, what is "against the rules" would need to be identified
If a substance wasn’t specifically against baseball’s rules but was otherwise illegal, then it is an arguable grey area.
lemonverbena - January 12, 2010
One might argue
That only shows he was thinking ahead about how to get through the loophole…
section331 - January 12, 2010
But speeding is illegal too...
Yet mainstream culture says it’s ok. At the time the culture of MLB accepted steroid use, at least implicitly.
I certainly don’t feel sorry for him, but I’m not getting worked up over the fact that he used. MLB should have cracked down sooner, but I understand why he was doing it.
Sidi - January 11, 2010
They also give out ticket's for speeding
Coug1990 - January 11, 2010
But typically the police ignore you if you're only 5 over...
At the time you had to work pretty hard to get caught using steroids as well.
Sidi - January 11, 2010
I was once pulled over for my right sided tires going slightly over the white line when making a turn
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Are you black?
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Tickets != public outrage
okay, so steroids are illegal. Let’s give McGwire a slap on the wrist and say he can’t be in the Hall of Fame on his first ballot, then let him back into regular baseball society
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
hah, i didn't see this before i posted the same thing.
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Lots of things that are illegal in the world are legal in sports
Jeff Sullivan - January 11, 2010
I do not get your point
Coug1990 - January 11, 2010
Mark McGwire wasn't breaking the rules of baseball and so therefore his the legality of his PED use isn't relevant
Aaron Campeau - January 11, 2010
Yes, because we all know baseball rules trump US law
That is a ridiculous argument.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
It's really not.
And it’s worth noting that we have no idea how McGwire obtained the steroids he took; there are plenty of ways to do so legally.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
Now you're just being funny
If that were the case, he would not have acted the way he did in front of congress.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Sure he would have.
He wasn’t going to be disciplined. He just wasn’t ready to admit it. Thousands of people take legally prescribed steroids every day.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
No he woudn't have
So now you are making the argument to me that Mark McGwire only did steroids because he was legally taking them? Blue, you are funny!
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
That is clearly not what he is saying
Poochie - January 12, 2010
But clearly we were talking about Mark McGwire
and he did say that there were plenty of ways to obtain steroids legally.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
No.
I am making the argument that since your</I entire argument is based upon the premise that he obtained steroids illegally, you need to provide proof of his having done so before your argument is valid.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
Aw nuts.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
Innocent until proven guilty. That's how America works.
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
But that's not how the media works unfortunately
which is where all this awesome righteous indignation comes from.
pdb - January 12, 2010
The media takes it upon itself to determine who the *villians* are and publicly defame them.
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
I'm glad you know what Mark McGwire would have done.
BrettJMiller - January 12, 2010
I suspect that he also didn't want to talk to congress because he had contempt for the whole process
Poochie - January 12, 2010
As well he should have, seeing as how it was fucking retarded
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
I agree, it was all political
But, once you are there, you have to do better than he did.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
If you actually watch his testimony instead of the soundbites, he comes off quite well.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
I know, I saw it live and I was shocked to later find that the consensus is that he was an embarrasment
Poochie - January 12, 2010
I thought Palmeiro was the embarrasment.
With the whole shaking of the finger and all.
Goose - January 12, 2010
Agreed
Poochie - January 12, 2010
He was a hero...
until we found out he lied. He was lauded for his testimony… and rightfully villified when he turned into either a liar, hypocrite or both.
jameslcrockett - January 12, 2010
What did he lie about?
Poochie - January 12, 2010
Palmeiro?
“Let me start by telling you this: I have never used steroids, period. I don’t know how to say it any more clearly than that. Never.”
5 months later… busted! Whether he used them intentionally or not… if you’re going to wag your finger at Congress, you better bloody well know what you do and don’t have in your body. He didn’t. It may be ignorance… but it doesn’t make it any less of a lie.
jameslcrockett - January 12, 2010
I thought you we talking about McGwire
Poochie - January 12, 2010
McGwire did lie at first in 1998 regarding his Andro use
but changed his story when evidence to the contrary was shown. I know you love the guy, but he was no saint.
Sec 108 - January 13, 2010
I did watch it back then and he came off bad
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
That's clearly a matter of opinion
and I think the public opinion has been largely colored by the endless and out of context “I’m not here to talk about the past” snippet.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
unfortunately...
they wanted him to talk about the past, the present and the future… he came off as evasive about a pertinent question… which now we know why.
jameslcrockett - January 12, 2010
I applaud him for being evasive
Poochie - January 12, 2010
Dog dammit
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
That he came out today and admitted that he did steriods kind of disproves that theory
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Not really.
He did it because he’s a hitting coach and the story wouldn’t go away until he admitted it.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
If you think that this story is going to go away now, you are mistaken
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Huh?
Nobody cares anymore because it confirms their suspicions. The media can move on because its no longer relavent.
Poochie - January 12, 2010
We'll see
Time will tell. Anyway. I have to go to sleep. Have a good night everyone.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
Only the idiots are going to continue to badger him about it now that the whole story is out there
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Not at all
He was actually very thoughtful
Poochie - January 12, 2010
He was being so disingenuous that he came off really bad
If you didn’t see it that way, then fine. You are in the minority. There is nothing wrong with that.
Coug1990 - January 12, 2010
He wasn't being disingenuous
He was saying what he had done wasn’t relavent and he was spot on correct with his predictions of what would happen with steroid hysteria.
Poochie - January 12, 2010
He comes off as being honest and intelligent
he comes off as a man who is unwilling to take blame, as an individual, for an entire generation’s faults, but who is clearly discouraging the use of the drugs. He comes off as someone who is not there to try to cover his ass and look good for the camera but as someone who thinks there is a problem and wants a serious process instead f a show trial.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
And even yesterday two Rosenthal and Mossi were attacking him for giving thoughtful answers about what steroids do and not the ones they wanted to hear.
Poochie - January 12, 2010
Sometimes the minority is right
remember the time that the majority thought the world was flat?
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
And how is he being disingenuous?
he is stating EXACTLY what ended up happening – denying use wasn’t believed and admitting use led to grand jury testimonies. He also said that using steroids is wrong, something he re-iterated yesterday. Just because you believe something is wrong doesn’t mean you didn’t do it either.
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Actually, he sounds similar to a certain LLer, which I find to be awesome.
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
Ever watch the grand sport of hockey?
I love it and love the fights. But if you and I got into a fight in public, that’s called assault.
zeke5123 - January 12, 2010
Not if both sides decline to charge.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Public disturbance
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Not always true
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
In most cases.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Declining to charge does not make it legal
it just means that a prosecutors office won’t pursue it. It’s still illegal.
Snuffleupagus - January 12, 2010
For example, there generally aren't assault charges as a result of a baseball brawl.
Janic - January 11, 2010
Unless you decide to throw a fastball at a fan
Brian Floyd - January 12, 2010
To clarify, player on player contact.
Janic - January 12, 2010
Hockey Fights!
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Are we really going to blame McGuire and people like him for this?
they are part of a system. Shouldn’t the people in charge of the system be blamed?
Snuffleupagus - January 12, 2010
I pretty much lay all the blame, if there is blame to be laid,
squarely at the feet of Selig and co. They knew, teams knew, everyone knew – but they also knew they were presiding over one of the most profitable eras in baseball history, so why rock the boat?
pdb - January 12, 2010
Exactly
that’s what makes me so pissed about all of this. There will be a million articles about the ‘shame’ McGuire brought to the game, or something something. But where are the articles slamming Selig?
Snuffleupagus - January 12, 2010
Speeding is also illegal and has been for a while
I the last time you drove, you at least went at least 5 mph over. A lot of things are illegal. How do you chose which laws you break.
Sports players cheat all the time. Any time you play any sports you do things that are against the rules and try to get away with them. Why are some bad and others ok?
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Speeding isn't a felony...
section331 - January 12, 2010
Is it actually a felony
if you are just in trouble for possession. I know selling is a felony for sure though.
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
I think you mean isn't in the title there.
Faux - January 12, 2010
I wasn't sure if its a felony or misdemeanor
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Aha, mixed that up there.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Best I can tell its based on quantity posessed.
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Speeding is a felony if you're under the influence
But just speeding in traffic 5mph over the limit? That’s an infraction. Maybe it varies state to state, but I have to think if speeding was considered a felony, there would be far less tickets given out, and way more people in prison for it…
section331 - January 12, 2010
Yeah true. Speeding is a bad example.
But you are ok with breaking some laws that don’t have big penalties. Basically you chose to break laws that you won’t get punished for. If speeding was a felony but there were no cops patrolling for it, people would still speed.
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
Exactly.
McGwire and Sosa helped baseball a hell of alot more than hurt it in 1998. That chase was amazing and I will be eternally grateful to them both for what they did for the game.
Goose - January 11, 2010
I wanted to give McGwire a hug
With any luck, his coming out will coax other players from their holes. I have a hard time dicks like Clemens and Bonds will come out, but with time hopefully it will happen.
OceanBird - January 12, 2010
Corked bats and performance enhancing drugs
You’re talking about Rafael Palmeiro, right?
Janic - January 12, 2010
Sammy Sosa
Robert - January 12, 2010
Palmeiro didn't cork his bat.
But <insert Viagra joke here, make sure to use the word "wood">.
The Typical Idiot Fan - January 12, 2010
What he did was illegal and immoral.
He obtained and used substances banned by US law and the act of obtaining them from other individuals and using them illegally amounts to conspiracy. By using these substances illegally he gained an unfair and immoral advantage over law abiding players who were not using illegal substances. He cheated and broke the law and then denied it before congress and the American people. He is not a man worth emulating or respecting. I watched Roger Maris and Henry Aaron break home run records and admired their accomplishments. I still do. Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod and McGwire and any other cheats do not deserve respect for their baseball accomplishments. There are right and wrong ways to do things. It’s not fuzzy or a grey area, it’s simple and black and white. Do the right thing, do not cheat and do not lie. To do so cheapens the game you supposedly love and hurts those who do it the right way and the fans who paid to see an honest contest.
maqman - January 12, 2010
I can't say I care if it was illegal or immoral
I’m watching baseball to be entertained, and if a player wants to acquire a substance that is illegal, but will allow them to recover from injuries more quickly and keep them out on the field more, I’m all for it. I just will never understand why people get so insulted about the “sanctity” of the game, as if people haven’t cheated throughout the history of the sport. No, spitballs can’t get you arrested, but amphetamines sure as hell are illegal, and plenty of players took those. Why are you going to ignore Aaron taking illegal amphetamines? I don’t get the double standard there.
Maybe I’m just some emotionless robot, since I only care about enjoying the product on the field and not how it got there. Oh well.
DKCecil - January 12, 2010
Why immoral?
And as pointed out above, there are many, many things that are illegal in society but are legal in sports. There is clearly an exception made for athletes when it comes to certain rules.
It was not against the rules of baseball to use steroids. Everyone else was using them. He had no advantage over his fellow players, and comparing him to Maris or Aaron is beside the point. Maris and Aaron played in a different era and had other advantages.
But nevermind all that. I’d love to hear your response to why steroid use is immoral, since I, and many others, don’t see any moral issue here at all.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
"There are right and wrong ways to do things. It’s not fuzzy or a grey area, it’s simple and black and white."
If it’s simple black and white, then why do you admire Aaron’s accomplishments but not McGwire’s? Both used dangerous drugs that helped them perform better.
Teej - January 12, 2010
Prove to me that Roger Maris and Henry Aaron weren't using 1960s/70s PEDs either
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Aaron admitted to taking greenies in his autobiography.
R.J. Anderson - January 12, 2010
I SMELL AN ASTERISK
pdb - January 12, 2010
Here's the thing
This point has been brought up many, many times by many, many people. Cheating did not start with PED’s, did not originate with Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds, and is not limited to drugs. Groundskeepers that alter the composition of infield dirt and foul lines? Performance enhancing. Players that took amphetamines like they were M&M’s for decades? Performance enhancing.
Point being, if you draw a line at cheating, you have to draw the whole line, not a line that selectively starts with the type of cheating that you personally disagree with.
pdb - January 12, 2010
In fact
some people have even written books about it
msb - January 12, 2010
I'm reading that book as we speak.
wazzu93 - January 12, 2010
Me too.
melenious - January 12, 2010
Why pile on McGuire
the thing that really bothers me is that everyone knew he was doing it. If you didn’t, you’re a moron. That means everyone in baseball was complicit, and loved it. But now we all want to blame the individual. Everyone in baseball, from the commissioner to the fans, took part in the steroid era. Vilifying McGuire is just an attempt to pretend we’re not guilty (mostly writers).
Snuffleupagus - January 12, 2010
He gave multiple interviews at his locker with a big bottle of andro right there on a shelf for all to see
pdb - January 12, 2010
Not to nitpick, but you're missing a U in that player name.
Faux - January 12, 2010
He's got a U where a W should be, really
pdb - January 12, 2010
I was trying to be less nazi and more witty.
Faux - January 12, 2010
You can't be less nazi or more nazi
Either you’re a nazi or you aren’t, there is no gray area it black and white. It’s illegal and immoral, and if you’re a nazi then you bring shame to an otherwise pristine and innocent blog. For shame, sir.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
NOT EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE
Besides, Nazi’s always wore shades of grey –
Faux - January 12, 2010
[thatsracist.gif]
Faux - January 12, 2010
I am absolutely stunned and appalled that this .jpg was not Nazi Mods with Robert
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Can't get to it.
I can’t open up pages on LL after 9, but updating works on pages I have open.
Faux - January 12, 2010
I got it. It was funny.
ToddK - January 12, 2010
There is almost never a situation that is simple black and white.
Aaron Campeau - January 12, 2010
Racism!
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
Not sure I follow this....
Then…
Maybe I’m missing something.
speedomike - January 12, 2010
He's talking personal vs. systemic there I think.
In the first quote, McGwire only hurt his own body by taking steroids. He didn’t hurt his teammates directly, or force anyone else to use, and taking them didn’t make him drive through a childrens’ hospital with a semi truck. There’s also the fact that it hurt his HOF chances and legacy (albeit because of stupid people, but that’s the system).
In the second, the fact that so many people were using and the system that it created where everyone felt like they had to use hurt a lot of players who would have not normally used in any other circumstance, in both the “image” of ball players in that era (although I think that’s debatable) and long term health. So the players that used are worse off for it, and those that didn’t still are looked down on as if they did.
Faux - January 12, 2010
I feel McGwire deserves ridicule for two things
the 1st being a personal choice and the 2nd being systemic consequence of that choice.
When confronted, the very first time, he should have been honest about his usage. He then could’ve gone on to say that everyone does it without pointing fingers necessarily (at least without a subpoena). Instead he went through over a decade of denial (including a nice performance in court) when everyone else knew it was true. That said, I appreciate him coming clean now, even with the assumed alterior motive of confronting the media head on with it. IMO, it’s important as humans that we praise good deeds and mock bad deeds (as an example to the rest of us). Steroid usage has unquestionably tarnished the game, and McGwire contributed to that and then subsequently avoided owning up to it, going so far as to hide away from the public for four years. If that doesn’t drum up a bit of scorn, then perhaps consider the following…
…no, he did not hurt anyone physically but himself; however, his actions and the actions of every other steroid user most definately affected every other player in baseball. Yes, many, many players were users during this period, but not EVERY player was, and for every Mark McGwire there was a John Doe who never made it because he was competing against already talented players whose abilities were enhanced by drugs. There was a steroids user who made the all-star team and subsequent bonus while the non-steroid user did not. So Mark McGwire, as a part of the admittedly vast legion of players who used steroids and the MLB/team officials who were aware of said usage, deserves scorn for his small yet highly visible role in the whole unfortunate melodrama.
Do I hate Mark McGwire? No. Am I “angry” at him? Of course not. But does he deserve the shame he now wears openly on his sleeve? Absolutely. They all do.
Omerta - January 12, 2010
I'll nitpick at that a little.
I would disagree that “Steroid usage has unquestionably tarnished the game”. It’s like saying that coke and amphetamines tarnished the game from the 60s-80s. It’s the same problem, just a different time period. The only difference I see is the media storm.
I also think that putting McGwire and Canseco and Rodriguez et al on some sort of shame pedestal as all that is wrong with the sport is retarded. When you get down to it, they were really bit players in a game that they had no real power to change. Just because they had a spotlight doesn’t mean much in my eyes. The real blame lies in the PA and Selig that refused to do anything until after gov’t stepped in.
Faux - January 12, 2010
To undermine my somewhat serious argument,
Hate the game, not the playa.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Didn't intend to insinuate that McGwire
Clemens, Rodriguez, et. al should be seperated from the pack to be spit on by the peanut gallery. I think any players that indulged should shoulder equal shame and scorn, unfortunately, the media will natuarally focus on the “greatest” of these players so fairness in this case flies out the window.
I didn’t really elaborate, but I concur that the administration at the time are ultimately responsible as they were the only ones who could truly stop it.
That being said, no one held a gun to these guys’ heads and forced them to use. I wont give them credit for groupthink for the sake of the almighty dollar. There are those who abstained, however precious few they may be.
Omerta - January 12, 2010
Here's where my problem with this comes in:
Where do you draw that line, and who do you bring in that didn’t even know they were doing anything wrong?
Between eye surgeries (Maddux+) and prescription cock-boosters (Manny) and caffeine (everyone) and who knows what else, you’ll have players do things they think are fine and get caught, and players that might be doing something that should be wrong and have no repercussions. At least now a line has been drawn, and from that point on is when we should care. Before then seems like a pointless exercise.
Basically, I really can’t blame the players at all. It’s a business, without strict regulations in effect you have to look out for number one and do what you can to get ahead. It’s not like they owned companies that dumped toxic waste and built schools on top, they really only hurt themselves.
Faux - January 12, 2010
You bring up a good point
the testing has been flawed and positive results have popped up from unexpected things. It is difficult to put a blanket on “everyone” who has ever tested positive. Some people might get caught up in a dragnet and slighted even though they were legitimately clean…and that is unfortunate. If slander could be regulated…
That being said, I am fine with those who have truly “roided up” being lambasted by the media and fans on the internet…the field is murky but it exists nevertheless and those who took the drugs and (in some cases) broke long established records deserve the scorn they’ve inherited along with their place in history.
I don’t want to make it seem like I’m sitting here stewing. I was nodding my head in agreement at the Mariners Q&A when the blogger panel largely agreed that steroid users shouldn’t be penalized for entry into the HOF. I’m not angry, just somewhat saddened that one of the lesser of our human qualities won out en masse and tainted a period of baseball I grew up with and cherished.
Omerta - January 12, 2010
.
We encouraged them to cheat ten years ago. Why not lambaste ourselves?
Graham MacAree - January 12, 2010
Because we had no idea and our love was predicated on the fact that they were perfect human beings
Poochie - January 12, 2010
Add stupidity to 'encouraging cheating' then
Graham MacAree - January 12, 2010
Am I the only person who imagines a juicy piece of meat
every time someone says lambaste?
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
No
I imagine one of those pieces of meat with socks on it, actually…crown roast, I think?
section331 - January 12, 2010
Excoriate is really much better word for it
visually anyway
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Guilt by association
“We” did not encourage steroid usage. What the fans are guilty of is naivete.
I’m not going to go so far as to say that 16-17 year old version of me was “stupid” for being enamored with homeruns because they were powered by steroids, or your average joe fan, for that matter. How were we to know? Was this information at our collective fingertips, because I certainly didn’t know about it or if I even thought about it, didn’t believe it to be as widespread as we subsequently discovered.
Omerta - January 13, 2010
We encouraged the love of tape-measure home runs
which begat the use of drugs perceived to increase the distance of said home runs.
pdb - January 13, 2010
And naivete is stupidity anyway
Graham MacAree - January 13, 2010
So the lesson is
don’t love/support sports, or they’ll use steroids? I think they (the players) should shoulder a bit more personal responsibility than that, shouldn’t they? Yes, peer/media/fan pressure and all that, but ultimately it came down to a personal decision.
Omerta - January 13, 2010
No, the lesson is don't get all outraged when it's discovered that athletes cheat
Sports is a bottom-line business with a binary outcome; you win or you lose. Winning means more money/fame/adulation/stuff. The temptation is there – as you say, it’s a personal decision, but that decision is entirely understandable given the outsize, ridiculous emphasis people place on sports. So to get all outraged when a player is caught cheating just seems sorta silly, really.
pdb - January 13, 2010
Well I will agree with that.
Of course, we know why the media plays up outrage…and the fans feed off of that.
Personally I’m not angry, as I said earlier in the thread somwhere, I just don’t feel like letting these guys entirely off the hook, is all. Largely, you reap what you sow in life.
Omerta - January 14, 2010
roids meant $
Personally I can’t blame McGwire.
Roids help the player rehab faster and get back on the field doing what they love.
Also, these players had millions of dollars at stake – the slightest edge could translate to lots of money for your family, the charities you support, your car(s)…..
And if so many other players are doing it, should you really sacrifice your career and fortune so that you’ve taken the moral high road and are now working at as a used car dealer with a longer life expectancy, and they’re retired, sipping margaritas on the beach – because they took every measure to perform at their peak for themselves and their fans?
And I say this as someone who’s taken the moral high road – didn’t cheat on tests, didn’t lie at interviews – and I tell you, the world shits on you unless you get results. They forgive you later for doing what you had to do.
It’s out in the open, the MLB tests for PEDs now, they punish for use, McGwire has talked about the past…..
what’s left to talk about?
does he deserve HoF recognition?
who’s in that has used but not admitted it?
If every player used, do none of them go? 75%? 50%?
who makes the 90s all-steroids team?
CBF - January 12, 2010
.
- Yes, I’d say he deserves a place in the Hall of Fame. Just because baseball decided that steroids were an outrage after the fact doesn’t change that he was one of the greatest players of his era.
- We don’t speculate about steroid usage around here, so I’ll guess Yuniesky Betancourt
- All the ones who are deserving should still go to the Hall of Fame.
- Brady Anderson, Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro, Roger Clemens for sure. Probably not Bonds
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Absolutely agree with your first bullet point
McGwire is a tiny cog in the steroid machine; MLB had a chance to clean things up and go public with it’s problems and they ignored it instead.
Omerta - January 12, 2010
This whole mock outrage is so hypocritical
In the American college system, use of Amphetamines like Adderall and Ritalin to pull ‘all-nighters’ and maintain focus is widespread. I attended a small Christian college and even at my school such abuse was seen as the norm. This shouldn’t really be that suprising, after all, since Adderall and other amphetamines/detroamphetamines are given to fighter pilots during the Iraq war.
Everyone I know would probably do something illegal (if they didn’t think it was immoral) to gain more recognition at their job and in turn make more money. I could think of many many examples, but you can’t argue that fact, because it is simply true.
As far as the sanctity of the HOF is concerned, there are known cheats, other drug abusers, gamblers (yes someone other than Rose and Jackson bet on Baseball and got away with it), racists, Klu Klux Klan members, a player that reportedly sharpened his spikes to deliberately injure (Cobb) and Pedophiles (It has been reported that Ruth would sleep with girls younger than 15) in the HOF. Admitting a steroid user shouldn’t be so bad.
Ballard Erik - January 12, 2010
So you're saying that
Paedophilia and racism enhance baseball performance? Huh.
section331 - January 12, 2010
Yep. That is clearly what I am saying.
Ballard Erik - January 12, 2010 via mobile
Excellent
Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. :D
section331 - January 12, 2010
Maybe that's my problem.
I did the beers and hot dogs and I’m still not in the majors.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Molesting children and hating Graham
Seem to be the key.
section331 - January 12, 2010
Who's the token Asian of LL, sb or Graham?
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
In seven months my child will be.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
I thought you lived in Seattle
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I do.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
So your child will be American
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Sure
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Pretty sure they were not talking about citizenship.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
Dude, excellent. Congrats.
I don’t know how I didn’t know that.
CapSea - January 12, 2010
You are only on Facebook between 2am-7am?
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
Pretty much yeah.
Also, by the time I wake up there are like 200 new status updates and things get lost in the shuffle.
CapSea - January 12, 2010
Thanks for the congrats.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
Who's the token butthol of LL?
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Isn't he still around?
Faux - January 12, 2010
Poochie
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/1/28/738717/mariners-cubs-discuss-heil#11784349
Faux - January 12, 2010
The best part is that I made that comment, too
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
That's how I found it.
Faux - January 12, 2010
.
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2009/1/28/738717/mariners-cubs-discuss-heil#11783488
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
I'm clairvoyant.
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
If you were you'd know that people cringe at a good number of your comments.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Taylor, just an FYI
learn when to let some of these subthreads go. Please.
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
What the heck?? I was just playing along....
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
Word can hurt you know
Poochie - January 12, 2010
I always thought you were the token typing dog.
Faux - January 12, 2010
n
Hey I found the letter you were missing
Graham MacAree - January 12, 2010
Well done
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
The only thing I'm angry about is
that the McGwire and any other play connected other performance enhancing drugs discussions take over all press coverage. Baseball has new and amazing heros: Felix, Lincecum, Jones, Longoria, Andrus, Gutierrez, Crawford, the Upton Brothers et al. Everyone just needs to acknowledge that players in 90’s and early 2000’s used performance enhancing drugs and move on. That way, we can truly embrace the great players of today and, frankly, a better more well rounded game where we can enjoy quality defense, smarter base running, and pitching.
InSpokane - January 12, 2010
Why write about choir boys when you can write about controversy?
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
If it bleeds, it leads
pdb - January 12, 2010
If we prick them do they not lead?
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
RoidRage
CBF - January 12, 2010
This right here sums it up for me
The players who cheated? They were actors, not real villains. The rest of us are the ones who wrote the script.
Chicks don’t dig slow rollers back to the mound, remember. Chicks dig the long ball.
pdb - January 12, 2010
I'm a chick and I dig Mariner wins; I don't care how we get there. :)
wazzu93 - January 12, 2010
Yes!
Chicks dig the Wak ball.
Great, now I have to go make a t-shirt.
section331 - January 12, 2010
That's good because we're not going to be doing that whole long ball thing this year.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I will take wins
Over homeruns any day of the week.
section331 - January 12, 2010
Can I still hate McGwire for playing on two of my most hated teams?
Seriously this has become my least favorite story of the past decade. I would take roids in a New York Minute if it meant that I could provide financial security for my family and their children also. Most people would. Not all, but MOST. The ones who wouldn’t are already financially set or hate having money.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
That's what gets me about this
it’s the same debate people have when their favorite player goes to a rival team for 5 times the money they were making. If someone offered me a ridiculous sum of money to do my same job in a different city with a similar group of coworkers, I’d be gone faster than you could say SUCK IT LOSERS, and it’s the same with steroids, which led to that kind of payday.
pdb - January 12, 2010
I am coming around to this philosophy
after hating A-Rod like a bitter divorcee for many years. I was really just pissed at everyone abandoning my hometown team (even though I, too, left Seattle for sunnier pastures). And projected my anger at losing our best players onto the head of A-Rod the Goat.
lemonverbena - January 12, 2010
I think the real victim in all this
is Jose Canseco. Guy was right about pretty much everything…
But no one really cares any more, and Jose is still an asshat.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call Canseco a victim
but he was most definitely right about a lot of these things, and deserves a lot of credit for that.
pdb - January 12, 2010
After reading his book
And yes, I did, I wouldn’t call him a victim at all. He was very aware of what he was doing, that it was wrong, and that he might get caught.
section331 - January 12, 2010
I really wasn't being serious
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Believe it or not, people not named Jose Canseco actually share your non-serious view.
Faux - January 12, 2010
That he is an asshat?
I was serious about that part
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I know
And I was responding to pdb…
section331 - January 12, 2010
I think Ozzie Canseco was the victim.
Sec 108 - January 12, 2010
Nobody likes a snitch
lemonverbena - January 12, 2010
Mark McGwire is a real team player
Doing steroids means taking tremendous legal, professional, and health risks in order to benefit your team and help them win. Doing steroids is quintessence of being a team player.
seiferguy - January 12, 2010
Maris hit his 61st home run on the 162nd game of the season, while Ruth hit 60 home runs in a 154-game season
How does Maris deserve the record any more than a guy using steroids? We pick and chose what counts.
I’m not saying one is better than the other. Doing steroids is illegal and playing 162 games is not. I get that. I just wanted to throw this out there.
Edgar for Pres - January 12, 2010
asterisk
How many years was there a big ass asterisk next to Maris’ name?
jameslcrockett - January 12, 2010
new HOF wing
Maybe they should just create a special wing of the HOF, where all the players that took growth hormone or steroids can be inducted. Call it the section for the artificially enhanced. Arod, Clemens, McGwire, etc. can all be inducted when they get voted in. Then we can stop having to worry about whether a steroid user should or shouldn’t be in the HOF.
Paul AB - January 12, 2010
That is a terrible idea
Poochie - January 12, 2010
I think it'll work great.
Then in 10 years when people don’t care anymore they can rename it the “90’s Wing”, because there won’t be too many people from that era not in it.
Faux - January 12, 2010
People will stop caring?
You really think this will blow over in 10 years?
I’d guess people will still be arguing about it 20 years from now.
Or even longer.
Paul AB - January 12, 2010
I'm guessing you're right, since there will still be stupid people 20 years from now just like there are today
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
I don't give a damn that players used greenies from 1920whatever until a few years ago
pdb - January 12, 2010
Maybe they should close down the Hall of Fame entirely
until they can come up with a proper standard to select inductees
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I think righteous indignation should be factored into HOF voting oh wait it already is
pdb - January 12, 2010
Maybe we can just put their HOF plaques in undesireable locations
For example, you can read of the merits of McGwire and Palmeiro while on the shitter.
Fuckmikereilly - January 12, 2010
I cant stay mad at him.
He hit dingers!
wadswerth - January 12, 2010
Media
The media response to the McGwire confession has been bothering me. Almost every article I’ve read mocks and criticizes McGwire for tarnishing the integrity of the game. Many criticize MLB for not imposing stricter penalties. Many point to the fans, who ignored the latent steroid issue because of the excitement of the home run chase. However, what each one fails to mention in their holier-than-thou condemnations is the final complicit party—themselves. If anyone knew the degree to which steroids were used in the 90’s, it was beat reporters who talked to players and coaches off the record and were allowed (albeit limited) access to the clubhouse. If steroids and other PEDs (such as andro, which McGwire admitted to using long ago) “tarnish” the game of baseball, where were those who are supposed to inform the public? Portraying the 1998 season as a “legendary” home run chase, portraying it as inspirational, captivating.
Fuckmikereilly - January 12, 2010
Semantics
I know it’s just a semantic thing, but does anyone else but me get bothered when people say these players “cheated” when it wasn’t against the rules and one could even say it was encouraged in some respects?
I mean I know what people are really saying is they had an unfair advantage over their predecessors and people not taking these substances. But really, don’t they have an unfair advantage over their predecessors anyways in some respects with all the legal and acceptable supplements along with better understanding of the body, video, ability to spend the offseason training instead of bagging groceries, etc?
Anyways, mainly I’m only against steroids in the game because it’s so bad for your body in the long run and so it would be bad to make all players have to take the steroids in order to compete at the same level as the users (sort of like baseball was in the late ‘90s). But really, all the acceptable supplements that aid their bodies in a similar fashion as the unacceptable variety really aren’t that different, just not as effective. Yet people never comment on the cocktails of acceptable chemicals and supplements pretty much all players take (that aren’t necessarily always that good for you either).
hiskeyd - January 12, 2010
A solid article
Another Cubs Blog
Jeff Sullivan - January 13, 2010
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