Jeff has recently covered why the Mariner offense projects to be better than last year's even with the loss of Russell Branyan and the absence of a "big bat" acquisition. Thanks once again to our hope of avoiding any black holes in the lineup, simple regression, and modest improvement from suck to quasi-average could boost the run scoring by 50 or so runs over 2009's total.
There is an aspect of run scoring - one that is a skill - that is glossed over by most wOBA formulas, however, and that is base running. Being able to effectively run the bases, advancing on fly outs, going first to third, etc, is not the same as simply being fast, as most people should have figured out from watching supposedly fast runners suck at stealing bases. Speed is a part of it, for sure, but being able to read the ball off the bat is vitally important too. Just like judging routes in the outfield in order to catch a ball, the quicker, and more accurate, a player's reaction is, the faster he can make a jump on the base paths.
With the addition of Chone Figgins to the team, obviously the Mariners are going to have a dynamic presence at the top of the lineup with him and Ichiro Suzuki. Both are prolific and successful base stealers. Both are very good at the little things concerned with base running as well and the Mariners should be expected to gain a few runs from that. How does the rest of the team look, though?
This isn't an exhaustive look at the issue. I just wanted a general idea, so I used Baseball Prospectus' base running report and excluded the runs from stolen bases. Jeff's recent post utilized the wOBA formula at FanGraphs, which already includes values for stolen bases and caught steals. Let's take it by position so that I can avoid having to make a fake lineup card. A fair warning ahead: while base running is a part of run scoring that can, on the individual level, significantly alter a player's value, as a team it rarely shifts things dramatically.
| POSITION | STARTER (BACKUP) | RAA |
| CATCHER | Rob Johnson (Adam Moore/Josh Bard) | -2 |
| FIRST BASE | Casey Kotchman (Jack Hannahan) | -4 |
| SECOND BASE | Jose Lopez (Jack Hannahan) | -2 |
| THIRD BASE | Chone Figgins (Jack Hannahan) | 5.5 |
| SHORTSTOP | Jack Wilson (Jack Hannahan) | -1 |
| LEFT FIELD | Ryan Langerhans (?) | 0 |
| CENTER FIELD | Franklin Gutierrez (?) | 2 |
| RIGHT FIELD | Ichiro Suzuki (?) | 5.5 |
| DESIGNATED HITTER | Milton Bradley (Ken Griffey Jr.) | -2 |
Rob Johnson is renowned for being "fast for a catcher", and he may actually be not bad for a catcher; it's hard to tell without positional averages. What we can tell though is that even if he tops the percentile chart for catchers, Johnson is no great shakes. Adam Moore actually showed some decent speed in a very limited time. Josh Bard has frequent arguments with the dirt on the base paths and has to stop and argue with it, or so I assume based on his horrific speed ratings.
Kotchman is pretty mediocre, even for a first baseman. He hasn't gotten a full season of exposure in a while, so it's a little hard to get a recent read, but I would expect him to be around 4 runs below average over his seasonal allotment of playing time.
Figgins is a legitimate speedster. His last three years have been worth 5, 6 and 7 extra runs from base running. Ditto Ichiro, even down to the same values for the past three seasons. Both are on the wrong side of 30 though, so I've docked them a bit for 2010.
The rest of the team is a collection of players right around average, with slightly more negative than positive likely thanks to the DH and Loafie.
All told, not that fabulous, but not slothful either. Thanks to Ichiro, Franklin, and Figgins, the Mariners have built up a speed buffer that the rest of the lineup chips away at. In the end, the lead those three put up help me think this will be an above average unit overall, but the magnitude is so small - on the order of fewer than five runs - that it turns out to be meaningless. But hey, at least they're not negative, right? Also, boy do we need more bench depth.
1 recs | 43 comments
Half of a marginal win is still important though, especially given the 2010 Mariners figure to be close to playoff contention
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Well the totals above come to +2
and given the error bars on something like this, it’s not going to change my estimation of the Mariners ability to score runs. Granted, the Angels are probably worse than average, so we might gain half a win over them, which would be important.
Matthew - January 12, 2010
Angels below average at baserunning
music to my ears
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
They want Hideki Matsui to play the outfield sometimes
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
I want him to play every day so he can challenge the Brad Hawpe UZR record of -37.2
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
I look forward to when Vlad Guerrero plays 40+ games in the OF
.Taylor - January 12, 2010
For the Rangers?
I doubt he manages that many.
wandergeist - January 12, 2010
I doubt he gets out there any more than Griffey gets out into ours
They know his limitations and his contract reflects that. They have three very young, very athletic players in the outfield and there is no reason aside form sheer idiocy to start Vlad on the field
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Now now
Hideki Matsui wants to play the outfield sometimes, if I recall correctly. But your point stands. For one of the most fly ball prone pitching staffs in the leagues, they sure have a crap outfield. And it’s costing them nearly 60M.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
To be fair Torii Hunter is average-ish
of course, they’re paying $18M for that privilege so…
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
Whoops, its 50M counting Matsui
still that’s a 50M OF/DH that’ll total them nine wins if GMJ exceeds expectations and performs at replacement level. Yay 5.5M marginal wins!
Juan Rivera really screws things up… Take him out and its ~7 wins for about 46M.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I wonder how Saunders will perform on the basepaths, I'd have to assume positively on the order of at least a couple runs.
lailaihei - January 12, 2010
He hasn't been a prolific base stealer since the low minors, so it's hard to make that assumption.
abender20 - January 12, 2010
Baserunning and base stealing are different, though.
Saunders has tremendous speed (and a great speed score). In the low minors, fast guys can steal a ton of bases just because they’re fast, but as they move up, pitchers tend to be harder to read, catchers can throw guys out, etc… That doesn’t mean Saunders has lost a step, it could just be a change in the skill of his opponents. I think he is a plus baserunner now and could be a plus base stealer with some work.
lailaihei - January 12, 2010
Speed does not always mean base running ability.
abender20 - January 13, 2010
What's Mark McLemore up to these days
we could use some utility hustle and grit
cedarA - January 12, 2010
Figgins is basically a version of McLemore that can field and not be a helpless little girl whilst batting right handed
Poochie - January 12, 2010
This is because he is black, right
Kirk - January 12, 2010 via mobile
No it's because their skill sets are comparable and I am offended on the behalf of all African Americans everywhere that you would post this.
Poochie - January 12, 2010
There's hope for you yet
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
I loved McLemore
But this was before I started reading LL, etc. Was he really that bad?
d0nkey - January 12, 2010
He was somehow pretty good with the Mariners
but far worse everywhere else.
Jeff Sullivan - January 12, 2010
I call shenanigans on this
Fuzz - January 12, 2010
He's in Texas
At the Mark McLemore Sports Complex in Rockwell (just outside Dallas), teaching kids to play baseball. He also has interests in several other things including a home builder, a home automation business, and a specialty car business… none of which did well through the most recent economic era, I suspect, but I’m sure he’s doing all right.
wandergeist - January 12, 2010
I think the car business has been shunted off to relatives.
Lately he’s been an analyst for Fox Southwest, covering the Rangers
msb - January 12, 2010
A snap shot of the differences in manager (SEA vs LAA) philosophies
Angels vs Mariners top of the order hitters in 2009
Chone Figgins:
bases taken (on fly balls, passed balls, balks, wild pitches, diffensive indifference) – 22
EBT% (taken more than one base on single, double) – 66%
Chone Figgins was on base 43 times when a single was hit, reaching 3rd base 23 times
RS% (run scoring percentage) – 39%
Ichiro Suzuki:
bases taken (on fly balls, passed balls, balks, wild pitches, diffensive indifference) – 21
EBT% (taken more than one base on single, double) – 38%
Ichiro was on first 39 times in 2009 when a single was hit, reaching 3rd base 7 times
RS% (run scoring percentage) – 31%
Of course this is selective, but it illustrates a point. If you want to look into it more (i’m rushing to write this!) this is a common contrast with Seattle and Angel players (Abreu, Aybar, Hunter etc all run the bases similarly to Figgins). Angels as a team has emphasized an undervalued run scoring trait for years (baserunning) and have been using it to good effect.
I don’t know if I would assume the Angels to be ‘worse than average’ as asserted near the top of the comments. Brandon Wood (who replaces Figgy) has good speed. Aybar will see his SB opportunities increased if he bats at the top of the lineup.
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
A question though - how often was Figgins thrown out trying to get to third on a single or stretch a single into a double?
While taking extra bases certainly has lots of value, the raw numbers don’t tell the whole story, as WPA graphs (and other means) have shown us that taking extra bases is only useful if you are successful a pretty huge percentage of the time.
seattlebruin - January 12, 2010
He must have been pretty good at it if he could rack up +7 runs with his baserunning.
nathaniel dawson - January 12, 2010
I don't know if the scoring perrcentage is relevant here
Since the Angels had one of the best offenses in the league and the Mariners were bottom of the barrel. I doubt it’s an effect of organizational philosophy so much as poor hitting behind him.
Bearskin Rugburn - January 12, 2010
Perhaps and point taken
But the aggressiveness on the basepaths needs to be seen within the overall context of runs scored by a baserunner (even if the relationship is not clear). I would suggest that the team scoring percentage is indicative of good hitting and a strong organizational philosophy that emphasizes runs, runs, runs.
Perhaps I should have added another stat that I love:
Number of times on 2nd base when a single is hit: 31 (Figgins), 20 (Ichiro)
When a single is hit with runner on second and runner scores: 26 (Figgind), 13 (Ichiro)
One thing is for certain, you guys now have a player in Figgins that has been schooled very well in the art of base stealing.
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
Would these stats justify batting Figgins leadoff and Ichiro! at the 2 hole?
At what point does base stealing, or base running prowess all together, become more valuable at the leadoff spot than say a higher OBP?
(I say this without really knowing Figgins OBP compared to Ichiro!’s)
d0nkey - January 12, 2010
Unsure
I can’t find the information for those specific plays, although we know he was caught at 3rd 6 times.
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
In reply to seattlebruin above
In reply to seattlebruin above
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
FYI - You aren't obligated to use both comment boxes.
We just ask that you use the title box if you only have one line to share.
Faux - January 12, 2010
Cheers for the info (am new here, a lot of boards seem to have different rules)
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
Backups, yikes.
Why doesn’t Carp backup Kotchman, Saunders to Langerhans, etc.? I think I just answered my own question in my head – ML roster space right? Hannahan after all those names though, yikes. What could be done to improve that situation?
Also RE: TheQuestforMerlin: looking at those Figgins vs. Ichiro numbers is pretty exciting now that he’s on our side, I hadn’t thought of him as faster than Ichiro before.
olystuart - January 12, 2010
Exciting, yes, but just from looking at those raw numbers
You’d kind of want Figgins on base ahead of Ichiro since he’s more likely to pick up an extra base. But as others have noted those numbers don’t tell the whole story, and it’s unclear if Ichiro’s hitting style would benefit Figgins as much as the reverse. Synergies, player preferences, BABIP all come into it. Will be a fun thing for Wak and those two to experiment with in ST, though — unless everybody has already decided Ichiro hits leadoff, of course.
wandergeist - January 12, 2010
Figgins
You guys are lucky to have Figgins, he is very dynamic on the basepaths. If he can have a good offensive year (get on base/strong BA) it will be very interesting to see how Wak uses him, particularly with a similar player like Ichiro.
It did no harm to us to have two strong presences up top with Figgins, Abreu, although Abreu only posted a 44% EBT% (lower than Aybar, Hunter, Matthews, Izturis and Napoli) despite his base stealing exploits. Perhaps due to Figgy getting on base ahead of him. Food for thought.
TheQuestforMerlin - January 12, 2010
Rough calculations for the other three teams:
Angels: +3 (Aybar and Izturis help)
A’s: +4.5 (Crisp!)
Rangers: +5 (Kinsler)
Jeff Sullivan - January 12, 2010
So we're actually the worst?
That’s unfortunate.
lailaihei - January 12, 2010
More accurately, we're all at about the same level
There’s no point in trying to pick out conclusions from gaps under 5 runs.
Jeff Sullivan - January 12, 2010
So if it's not baserunning that's going to put us over the top as the best team, we're going to have to add some more wins elsewhere...
I really hope our budget is in the $100 mil range and we can add another starter or two and a right-handed LF.
lailaihei - January 12, 2010
Baserunning was never going to be the thing to put us over the top
Jeff Sullivan - January 12, 2010
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