SB Nation - Login for mobile commenting

Lookout Landing

Mariners on the Base Paths

Jeff has recently covered why the Mariner offense projects to be better than last year's even with the loss of Russell Branyan and the absence of a "big bat" acquisition. Thanks once again to our hope of avoiding any black holes in the lineup, simple regression, and modest improvement from suck to quasi-average could boost the run scoring by 50 or so runs over 2009's total.

There is an aspect of run scoring - one that is a skill - that is glossed over by most wOBA formulas, however, and that is base running. Being able to effectively run the bases, advancing on fly outs, going first to third,  etc, is not the same as simply being fast, as most people should have figured out from watching supposedly fast runners suck at stealing bases. Speed is a part of it, for sure, but being able to read the ball off the bat is vitally important too. Just like judging routes in the outfield in order to catch a ball, the quicker, and more accurate, a player's reaction is, the faster he can make a jump on the base paths.

With the addition of Chone Figgins to the team, obviously the Mariners are going to have a dynamic presence at the top of the lineup with him and Ichiro Suzuki. Both are prolific and successful base stealers. Both are very good at the little things concerned with base running as well and the Mariners should be expected to gain a few runs from that. How does the rest of the team look, though?

This isn't an exhaustive look at the issue. I just wanted a general idea, so I used Baseball Prospectus' base running report and excluded the runs from stolen bases. Jeff's recent post utilized the wOBA formula at FanGraphs, which already includes values for stolen bases and caught steals. Let's take it by position so that I can avoid having to make a fake lineup card. A fair warning ahead: while base running is a part of run scoring that can, on the individual level, significantly alter a player's value, as a team it rarely shifts things dramatically.

A rough estimate of Mariner base running
POSITION STARTER (BACKUP) RAA
CATCHER Rob Johnson (Adam Moore/Josh Bard) -2
FIRST BASE Casey Kotchman (Jack Hannahan) -4
SECOND BASE Jose Lopez (Jack Hannahan) -2
THIRD BASE Chone Figgins (Jack Hannahan) 5.5
SHORTSTOP Jack Wilson (Jack Hannahan) -1
LEFT FIELD Ryan Langerhans (?) 0
CENTER FIELD Franklin Gutierrez (?) 2
RIGHT FIELD Ichiro Suzuki (?) 5.5
DESIGNATED HITTER Milton Bradley (Ken Griffey Jr.) -2

 

Rob Johnson is renowned for being "fast for a catcher", and he may actually be not bad for a catcher; it's hard to tell without positional averages. What we can tell though is that even if he tops the percentile chart for catchers, Johnson is no great shakes. Adam Moore actually showed some decent speed in a very limited time. Josh Bard has frequent arguments with the dirt on the base paths and has to stop and argue with it, or so I assume based on his horrific speed ratings.

Kotchman is pretty mediocre, even for a first baseman. He hasn't gotten a full season of exposure in a while, so it's a little hard to get a recent read, but I would expect him to be around 4 runs below average over his seasonal allotment of playing time.

Figgins is a legitimate speedster. His last three years have been worth 5, 6 and 7 extra runs from base running. Ditto Ichiro, even down to the same values for the past three seasons. Both are on the wrong side of 30 though, so I've docked them a bit for 2010.

The rest of the team is a collection of players right around average, with slightly more negative than positive likely thanks to the DH and Loafie.

All told, not that fabulous, but not slothful either. Thanks to Ichiro, Franklin, and Figgins, the Mariners have built up a speed buffer that the rest of the lineup chips away at. In the end, the lead those three put up help me think this will be an above average unit overall, but the magnitude is so small - on the order of fewer than five runs - that it turns out to be meaningless. But hey, at least they're not negative, right? Also, boy do we need more bench depth.

1 recs  |  43 comments

Comments

Half of a marginal win is still important though, especially given the 2010 Mariners figure to be close to playoff contention
Well the totals above come to +2

and given the error bars on something like this, it’s not going to change my estimation of the Mariners ability to score runs. Granted, the Angels are probably worse than average, so we might gain half a win over them, which would be important.

Angels below average at baserunning

music to my ears

They want Hideki Matsui to play the outfield sometimes
I want him to play every day so he can challenge the Brad Hawpe UZR record of -37.2
I look forward to when Vlad Guerrero plays 40+ games in the OF
For the Rangers?

I doubt he manages that many.

I doubt he gets out there any more than Griffey gets out into ours

They know his limitations and his contract reflects that. They have three very young, very athletic players in the outfield and there is no reason aside form sheer idiocy to start Vlad on the field

Now now

Hideki Matsui wants to play the outfield sometimes, if I recall correctly. But your point stands. For one of the most fly ball prone pitching staffs in the leagues, they sure have a crap outfield. And it’s costing them nearly 60M.

To be fair Torii Hunter is average-ish

of course, they’re paying $18M for that privilege so…

Whoops, its 50M counting Matsui

still that’s a 50M OF/DH that’ll total them nine wins if GMJ exceeds expectations and performs at replacement level. Yay 5.5M marginal wins!

Juan Rivera really screws things up… Take him out and its ~7 wins for about 46M.

I wonder how Saunders will perform on the basepaths, I'd have to assume positively on the order of at least a couple runs.
He hasn't been a prolific base stealer since the low minors, so it's hard to make that assumption.
Baserunning and base stealing are different, though.

Saunders has tremendous speed (and a great speed score). In the low minors, fast guys can steal a ton of bases just because they’re fast, but as they move up, pitchers tend to be harder to read, catchers can throw guys out, etc… That doesn’t mean Saunders has lost a step, it could just be a change in the skill of his opponents. I think he is a plus baserunner now and could be a plus base stealer with some work.

Speed does not always mean base running ability.
What's Mark McLemore up to these days

we could use some utility hustle and grit

Figgins is basically a version of McLemore that can field and not be a helpless little girl whilst batting right handed
This is because he is black, right
No it's because their skill sets are comparable and I am offended on the behalf of all African Americans everywhere that you would post this.
There's hope for you yet
I loved McLemore

But this was before I started reading LL, etc. Was he really that bad?

He was somehow pretty good with the Mariners

but far worse everywhere else.

I call shenanigans on this
He's in Texas

At the Mark McLemore Sports Complex in Rockwell (just outside Dallas), teaching kids to play baseball. He also has interests in several other things including a home builder, a home automation business, and a specialty car business… none of which did well through the most recent economic era, I suspect, but I’m sure he’s doing all right.

I think the car business has been shunted off to relatives.

Lately he’s been an analyst for Fox Southwest, covering the Rangers

A snap shot of the differences in manager (SEA vs LAA) philosophies

Angels vs Mariners top of the order hitters in 2009

Chone Figgins:

bases taken (on fly balls, passed balls, balks, wild pitches, diffensive indifference) – 22
EBT% (taken more than one base on single, double) – 66%
Chone Figgins was on base 43 times when a single was hit, reaching 3rd base 23 times
RS% (run scoring percentage) – 39%

Ichiro Suzuki:

bases taken (on fly balls, passed balls, balks, wild pitches, diffensive indifference) – 21
EBT% (taken more than one base on single, double) – 38%
Ichiro was on first 39 times in 2009 when a single was hit, reaching 3rd base 7 times
RS% (run scoring percentage) – 31%

Of course this is selective, but it illustrates a point. If you want to look into it more (i’m rushing to write this!) this is a common contrast with Seattle and Angel players (Abreu, Aybar, Hunter etc all run the bases similarly to Figgins). Angels as a team has emphasized an undervalued run scoring trait for years (baserunning) and have been using it to good effect.

I don’t know if I would assume the Angels to be ‘worse than average’ as asserted near the top of the comments. Brandon Wood (who replaces Figgy) has good speed. Aybar will see his SB opportunities increased if he bats at the top of the lineup.

A question though - how often was Figgins thrown out trying to get to third on a single or stretch a single into a double?

While taking extra bases certainly has lots of value, the raw numbers don’t tell the whole story, as WPA graphs (and other means) have shown us that taking extra bases is only useful if you are successful a pretty huge percentage of the time.

He must have been pretty good at it if he could rack up +7 runs with his baserunning.
I don't know if the scoring perrcentage is relevant here

Since the Angels had one of the best offenses in the league and the Mariners were bottom of the barrel. I doubt it’s an effect of organizational philosophy so much as poor hitting behind him.

Perhaps and point taken

But the aggressiveness on the basepaths needs to be seen within the overall context of runs scored by a baserunner (even if the relationship is not clear). I would suggest that the team scoring percentage is indicative of good hitting and a strong organizational philosophy that emphasizes runs, runs, runs.

Perhaps I should have added another stat that I love:

Number of times on 2nd base when a single is hit: 31 (Figgins), 20 (Ichiro)
When a single is hit with runner on second and runner scores: 26 (Figgind), 13 (Ichiro)

One thing is for certain, you guys now have a player in Figgins that has been schooled very well in the art of base stealing.

Would these stats justify batting Figgins leadoff and Ichiro! at the 2 hole?

At what point does base stealing, or base running prowess all together, become more valuable at the leadoff spot than say a higher OBP?

(I say this without really knowing Figgins OBP compared to Ichiro!’s)

Unsure

I can’t find the information for those specific plays, although we know he was caught at 3rd 6 times.

In reply to seattlebruin above

In reply to seattlebruin above

FYI - You aren't obligated to use both comment boxes.

We just ask that you use the title box if you only have one line to share.

Cheers for the info (am new here, a lot of boards seem to have different rules)
Backups, yikes.

Why doesn’t Carp backup Kotchman, Saunders to Langerhans, etc.? I think I just answered my own question in my head – ML roster space right? Hannahan after all those names though, yikes. What could be done to improve that situation?
Also RE: TheQuestforMerlin: looking at those Figgins vs. Ichiro numbers is pretty exciting now that he’s on our side, I hadn’t thought of him as faster than Ichiro before.

Exciting, yes, but just from looking at those raw numbers

You’d kind of want Figgins on base ahead of Ichiro since he’s more likely to pick up an extra base. But as others have noted those numbers don’t tell the whole story, and it’s unclear if Ichiro’s hitting style would benefit Figgins as much as the reverse. Synergies, player preferences, BABIP all come into it. Will be a fun thing for Wak and those two to experiment with in ST, though — unless everybody has already decided Ichiro hits leadoff, of course.

Figgins

You guys are lucky to have Figgins, he is very dynamic on the basepaths. If he can have a good offensive year (get on base/strong BA) it will be very interesting to see how Wak uses him, particularly with a similar player like Ichiro.

It did no harm to us to have two strong presences up top with Figgins, Abreu, although Abreu only posted a 44% EBT% (lower than Aybar, Hunter, Matthews, Izturis and Napoli) despite his base stealing exploits. Perhaps due to Figgy getting on base ahead of him. Food for thought.

Rough calculations for the other three teams:

Angels: +3 (Aybar and Izturis help)
A’s: +4.5 (Crisp!)
Rangers: +5 (Kinsler)

So we're actually the worst?

That’s unfortunate.

More accurately, we're all at about the same level

There’s no point in trying to pick out conclusions from gaps under 5 runs.

So if it's not baserunning that's going to put us over the top as the best team, we're going to have to add some more wins elsewhere...

I really hope our budget is in the $100 mil range and we can add another starter or two and a right-handed LF.

Baserunning was never going to be the thing to put us over the top

You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Lookout Landing to post a comment.