All I remember about him is that one time there was a foul pop up that he was right under, and for whatever retarded reason I started chanting "drop it, drop it, drop it!" ( I was like 9), and then he dropped it.
I thought I had special powers for like 3 years after that
If Dawson goes in as a Cub, I don’t think he should even be there. If he goes in as an Expo, that seems more valuable to me as we was the best player that franchise ever saw, besides maybe Tim Raines, and I doubt Raines gets in.
This probably hurts Edgar’s chances. Voters next year will surely vote for Blyleven, Alomar, Larkin and maybe Morris. And Bagwell is coming onto the ballot and has a better case than Edgar. With that many candidates, and since the logic behind HOF voting is stupid, this means they won’t vote for Edgar
Edgar just needs to maintain momentum through a couple of strong years, which may be hard, especially when a lot of the big sluggers of the 1990’s start coming up.
That being said, voters haven’t looked all that kindly on McGwire so far, so who knows.
What not-yet-eligible players do you think deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? For active players with limited service time, use a 95% judgment case – do you think that there is a 95% or better chance that the player’s career numbers will eventually be Hall of Fame worthy?
For example, Albert Pujols is a shoe-in based on his nine seasons of utter excellence. Zack Greinke would be a no way and Chase Utley would be somewhere in the middle.
Pitchers: Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman
Position Players: Ken Griffey, Jr, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Barry Bonds, Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez,
Not really sure why. Edgar got about what I expected. I think anything but a major disappointment is a good thing for Edgar’s chances. I think its gonna take him a while to get in but eventually I think he will get there.
then why aren’t there more DHs of Edgar’s caliber? I keep reading/hearing the argument that he had the luxury of not playing defense, but nobody ever seems to include in that statement an explanation of why others with the same “luxury” haven’t measured up over the past 36 years.
is that DH’s have it easier because they don’t have to play the field and can thus concentrate purely on hitting and won’t get injured, which raises their stats beyond where they should be.
Despite the mountain of evidence that suggests that not playing defense, in fact, generally hurts offensive production.
He hit 40 doubles to lead the team in 2001 at age 38 after countless leg and knee injuries. There have been hitters with more power for sure, but there have been very few who could lace a ball into the OF gaps like Gar.
I seem to recall an interview in the Times with a Mariner in ‘02(?) who was subbing for an injured Edgar. The comment made was that they were finding it really hard to find a rhythm without being in the field, and their offensive production was showing an impact from it. It was too easy to dwell on their at-bats when they couldn’t contribute with their glove.
With Edgar’s likely slow road to the hall, Griffey, Edgar and Johnson could have gotten in the same year. And their candidacy would likely help each other since it would make a good story.
The frustrating thing is the stupidity that goes into the votes, not necessarily who gets in.
One of Geoff Baker’s claims is that he voted for Dawson because of the “intangibles of playing on astroturf.” Which… makes pretty much no sense at all, especially because Edgar also had knee problems and also played on astroturf.
I never, if you would have given me a thousand guesses, picked his post-baseball career to be “”http://www.brandedsolutions.com/aboutus/team/team.html" >CEO of an embroidery company".
Do we have a history on players it took a few years (decades?) to get in and what their first ballot % was?
Just to compare how Edgar did on his first go-round.
kentroyals5 - January 6, 2010
I believe you can only be on the ballot for 10 years, then it's up to the Veterans Committee.
I’m trying to find confirmation on that. I could be wrong.
Teej - January 6, 2010
15 years
David Piper - January 6, 2010
Thanks.
Teej - January 6, 2010
A ussm commenter has a partial list
Look at the 9th comment
ToddK - January 6, 2010
Was hoping for something north of 40%.
Oh well. In the next 15 years, many of the old codgers who voted against Edgar will be gone and replaced by people more apt accept him.
My hope is that Edgar is elected alongside Randy or Junior. I would consider making a trip out to Cooperstown in those cases.
Wilder. - January 6, 2010
Honestly, I hope Edgar gets there before that
I’d like him to be the first player to make it in the Hall as a Mariner.
cwel87 - January 6, 2010
The rest of the vote is as important as Spring Training results
pdb - January 6, 2010
Or your fantasy team
seattlecougar - January 6, 2010
Mark McGwire went from 23.6% to 21.9% and then back to 23.7%.
Barry Larken gets just 51.6%, Tim Raines 30.4%, Andres Galaragga is one and done (4.1%) and somebody actually voted for David Segui.
Amazing.
Goose - January 6, 2010
And Kevin Appier!
seattlesundevil - January 6, 2010
Two people voted for Ellis Burks!
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Can you link to the results?
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Sure
HOF site
Goose - January 6, 2010
You have to get about 5% to stay on the ballot, right?
Coach Owens - January 6, 2010
>= 5%
seattlecougar - January 6, 2010
Well that's what I meant. ;)
Coach Owens - January 6, 2010
If I remember right Jay Buhner got a vote or two.
I think anything under 1% are kind of joke votes.
Edgar for Pres - January 6, 2010
Less a joke than a hometown sportswriter who likes the local boy
pdb - January 6, 2010
Edgar reached base 62 more times than Dawson in 2097 fewer plate appearances
Jeff Sullivan - January 6, 2010
Oh, but he played in the field! With a glove! On bad knees!!
lemonverbena - January 6, 2010
How many votes did Edgar get?
Some are reporting 36.2% while others are saying 32.6%
I don’t know what it’s called, but that happens to me sometimes where the numbers get shifted around.
Janic - January 6, 2010
It's 36.2%
Jeff Sullivan - January 6, 2010
For the sake of argument, let's say the following players were deserving:
Alomar, Larkin, Blyleven, Edgar, Dawson, Raines, and McGwire.
Is Dawson the worst player on that list?
Teej - January 6, 2010
Yes. By far.
Barry Larkin had a better OPS than Dawson.
Manzanillos Cup - January 6, 2010
I would believe Dawson getting in will help Edgars chances down the road.
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
When put into context like that, it really makes me upset about hall voting
Even though I normally don’t really care that much
shumagorath - January 6, 2010
At least Bert will get in now next year.
And I’d expect Edgar will be in within five years as well, which may be sooner as well considering Mariner fans rule the internet.
Shocked that Geoff Baker didn’t vote for Edgar, his article about his choice is like a time walk back to an early 2007 column by him.
EnglishMariner - January 6, 2010
Geoff Baker is gonna get a lot of hate mail.
wazzu93 - January 6, 2010
Probably a metric crapton of site hits too.
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
I wonder how many people voted for Baines and not for Edgar
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
And I really want to know who voted for Segui
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
David Segui had a career wOBA of .349
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
And never played more than 150 games in a season and only hit 130 four times
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
If I remember correctly he was insane with the glove for a while
Also he seemed really nice when he signed my autograph so there’s that too.
Robert - January 6, 2010
He got robbed of a gold glove the year Raffy Palmeiro played like 12 games at first.
hcoguy - January 6, 2010
All I remember about him is that one time there was a foul pop up that he was right under, and for whatever retarded reason I started chanting "drop it, drop it, drop it!" ( I was like 9), and then he dropped it.
I thought I had special powers for like 3 years after that
gregrabble - January 6, 2010
Probably just someone giving him one honorary vote before he leaves the ballot.
Jay Buhner got a vote like this. Not anything to get worked up over.
ARock - January 6, 2010
Seriously, who did that?
Did one of you guys steal a ballot?
Teej - January 6, 2010
Probably Geoff Baker.
Wilder. - January 6, 2010
He was on both Toronto and Montreal
greymstreet - January 6, 2010
Who voted for Eric Karros!? That's even worse!
Corco - January 6, 2010
David Segui's mother
is a member of the BBWAA.
margin1522 - January 6, 2010
One time Segui, with a guy on first, dove back in full extension toward the bag to snare a liner, landing with his glove on the bag for the DP.
HOF.
abender20 - January 6, 2010
How did Todd Zeile not get a vote?
His fact sheet was outstanding
Brian Floyd - January 6, 2010
Jay Mariotti didn't vote for ANYONE?
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2010/01/jay-mariotti-wants-to-get-kicked-out-of-the-bbwaa-hey-bbwaa-please-do-it.html.php
wazzu93 - January 6, 2010
Saw that
He’s an idiot
Brian Floyd - January 6, 2010
4 others didn't vote for anyone, too
Brian Floyd - January 6, 2010
BUT ALOMAR DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE IN THE SAME HALL AS MAYS, RUTH AND COBB!
EnglishMariner - January 6, 2010
I hope he stays in for the sake of Edgar.
He makes it clear he will vote for Edgar.
Wilder. - January 6, 2010
I just get tired of the "sacred first ballot" poop.
wazzu93 - January 6, 2010
I think not voting for anybody is completely valid
It just depends on what you consider to be Hall-worthy. High standards I think are good.
Edgar for Pres - January 6, 2010
Not voting for obviously deserving players because of "high standards" is the dumbest thing I've ever heard
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
I didn't read his quotes
He is a retard. I’m sorry I tried to in any way defend his actions.
Edgar for Pres - January 6, 2010
I wouldn't be surprised
If he did this for the spotlight and to have material to write about.
Also, he’s an idiot.
Brian Floyd - January 6, 2010
Judging by the USSM front page Derek ... has not taken this news well.
EnglishMariner - January 6, 2010
I'm just annoyed that Lee Smith got some 11% more votes than Edgar.
Coach Owens - January 6, 2010
My God.
Dawson got in but not Blyleven or Larkin or Alomar?
Mariner John - January 6, 2010
I really hope Dawson goes in as an Expo
Corco - January 6, 2010
To elaborate
If Dawson goes in as a Cub, I don’t think he should even be there. If he goes in as an Expo, that seems more valuable to me as we was the best player that franchise ever saw, besides maybe Tim Raines, and I doubt Raines gets in.
Corco - January 6, 2010
My entirely unscientific prediction: Edgar makes the hall in 2012
He builds “momentum” through ’11, then makes it in a thin ballot the following year.
lemonverbena - January 6, 2010
Don't care much about the vote but...
This probably hurts Edgar’s chances. Voters next year will surely vote for Blyleven, Alomar, Larkin and maybe Morris. And Bagwell is coming onto the ballot and has a better case than Edgar. With that many candidates, and since the logic behind HOF voting is stupid, this means they won’t vote for Edgar
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
For next year, maybe
But eventually there’s going to be a weak year.
OlSalty - January 6, 2010
This wasn't exactly a bumper crop though
pdb - January 6, 2010
First ballot, though
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Yeah a lot of people probably didn't vote for him because they don't think he deserves the esteem of a first ballot selection
But still will vote for him eventually
OlSalty - January 6, 2010
Yeah
Edgar just needs to maintain momentum through a couple of strong years, which may be hard, especially when a lot of the big sluggers of the 1990’s start coming up.
That being said, voters haven’t looked all that kindly on McGwire so far, so who knows.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
You get Geoff Baker's HoF vote if-
You Ice your Knees alot…..
You play on astro turf….
You get injured in highschool….
CSD - January 6, 2010
OK, to make this a little more fun
What not-yet-eligible players do you think deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? For active players with limited service time, use a 95% judgment case – do you think that there is a 95% or better chance that the player’s career numbers will eventually be Hall of Fame worthy?
For example, Albert Pujols is a shoe-in based on his nine seasons of utter excellence. Zack Greinke would be a no way and Chase Utley would be somewhere in the middle.
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
My ballot
Pitchers: Greg Maddux, Randy Johnson, Tom Glavine, Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman
Position Players: Ken Griffey, Jr, Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Barry Bonds, Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols, Manny Ramirez,
I’m sure I missed really obvious ones
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez
Edgar for Pres - January 6, 2010
Frank Thomas and John Smoltz maybe
Craig Biggio is probably definite.
Mariner John - January 6, 2010
Frank Thomas definitely
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
How could you not vote for Biggio?
Poochie - January 6, 2010
The same reason you couldn't vote for Alomar or Larkin?
Mariner John - January 6, 2010
Chipper Jones
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
Jeff Bagwell, but I'm biased. One of my favorite players, I'm not sure how his numbers compare
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
149 OPS+
He was good.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Yeah, B-Ref likes him on their various HOF rankings. Always forget they have those.
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
Remember - it's YOUR vote
if you have high standards and don’t think that Ken Griffey should be elected on the first ballot, you don’t have to vote for him
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Larry Walker
Wilder. - January 6, 2010
What the hell, Larry Walker had a career .414 wOBA?
I’m sold
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
I don't even care about the Coors Field effect, that's extraordinary
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
He still raked on the road.
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Pudge
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Piazza, Thome, Vizquel?
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Unsure about Thome.
Piazza and Vizquel I think both get in after a couple of years.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Really, Visquel?
I never really thought about it but I guess so?
CapSea - January 6, 2010
He'll have good counting stats based on longevity, and he was a genuinely great defensive player
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Ozzie smith getting in helped his case.
If Edgar gets in then so should Thome.
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Rizzsy thinks he's a sure fire Hall of famer.
msb - January 6, 2010
Correction
He’ll have good counting stats based on longevity and he
wasis a genuinely great defensive player.Seriously. He’s still putting up good defensive numbers in a limited role in his 40’s. As a shortstop.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Jim Edmonds is an obvious slam dunk first ballot hall of famer
Poochie - January 6, 2010
He averaged more than 7 wins a season from 2000-2005
Poochie - January 6, 2010
Does fangraphs show WAR before 2002?
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Nope. UZR doesn't go back any further.
Teej - January 6, 2010
CHONE's database does but I take the older defensive numbers with a grain of salt.
Poochie - January 6, 2010
So its a educated guess?
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
I am no expert, but that is what I understand it to be
but I’m sure someone will correct me
Poochie - January 6, 2010
Jim Edmonds was awesome at defense
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Was he?
Poochie - January 6, 2010
I don't know, let's ask katal
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
Well, he was a plus CF all the way through his age 36 season and average at age 37
so I think it’s safe to assume he was pretty awesome for the first eight or so years of his career
seattlebruin - January 6, 2010
I think Vlad gets in...
shumagorath - January 6, 2010
Also I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think Lance Berkman will get a nod eventually.
shumagorath - January 6, 2010
Its kind of a shame Alomar didn't get more votes.
Not really sure why. Edgar got about what I expected. I think anything but a major disappointment is a good thing for Edgar’s chances. I think its gonna take him a while to get in but eventually I think he will get there.
Edgar for Pres - January 6, 2010
I don't understand: if the DH is so easy to play,
then why aren’t there more DHs of Edgar’s caliber? I keep reading/hearing the argument that he had the luxury of not playing defense, but nobody ever seems to include in that statement an explanation of why others with the same “luxury” haven’t measured up over the past 36 years.
Ormson - January 6, 2010
The commonly used argument
is that DH’s have it easier because they don’t have to play the field and can thus concentrate purely on hitting and won’t get injured, which raises their stats beyond where they should be.
Despite the mountain of evidence that suggests that not playing defense, in fact, generally hurts offensive production.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Though at the same time, being a DH makes it easier to rack up counting stats because you minimize injury risk.
And Edgar’s counting stats are what a lot of voters are looking at. “He was a DH and he still only barely broke 300 homers? LOSER.”
Teej - January 6, 2010
This is true.
But when looking at counting stats, I don’t understand how you can just ignore an (undeserved) late start to a career.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Walks, and doubles. Holy moly that man did not like to make an out and loved an extra base hit.
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
Not you, in my head I'm talking to people that make your counting stat argument.
Kermit. - January 6, 2010
And still got that extra base at 38 with no knees
He hit 40 doubles to lead the team in 2001 at age 38 after countless leg and knee injuries. There have been hitters with more power for sure, but there have been very few who could lace a ball into the OF gaps like Gar.
Kingdomer - January 7, 2010
I guess that's part of where my frustration lies:
when “the commonly used argument” is statistically indefensible, it’s irksome to see it so commonly used. =/
Ormson - January 6, 2010
I love how every other story about a player switching to the DH
Is how hard its going to be to adjust to not having to play the field.
Scruffy Lefty - January 6, 2010
Bingo
I seem to recall an interview in the Times with a Mariner in ‘02(?) who was subbing for an injured Edgar. The comment made was that they were finding it really hard to find a rhythm without being in the field, and their offensive production was showing an impact from it. It was too easy to dwell on their at-bats when they couldn’t contribute with their glove.
Ormson - January 6, 2010
Because most talented players can play the field as well.
It’s rare you have a hitter of Edgar’s talent who switches to DH without displaying the dreaded older players skills
Poochie - January 6, 2010
It's too bad Randy is retiring.
With Edgar’s likely slow road to the hall, Griffey, Edgar and Johnson could have gotten in the same year. And their candidacy would likely help each other since it would make a good story.
CapSea - January 6, 2010
Just get Griffey to walk away during ST and everything will be ok
Poochie - January 6, 2010
Take his knees out
Brian Floyd - January 6, 2010
Is that true?
CapSea - January 6, 2010
I think so, as long as he doesn't play in an MLB game
Poochie - January 6, 2010
I considered taking out his knees at the Hawks game on Sunday but eventually decided against it.
Robert - January 6, 2010
Probably a good thing.
Trey would have taken you down, and he’s gotten pretty big.
msb - January 6, 2010
Normally I don't care one whit about the Hall of Fame.
But Edgar cares. So I care. And now I’m pissed off at the terrible HOF voters.
Fear - January 6, 2010
The frustrating thing is the stupidity that goes into the votes, not necessarily who gets in.
One of Geoff Baker’s claims is that he voted for Dawson because of the “intangibles of playing on astroturf.” Which… makes pretty much no sense at all, especially because Edgar also had knee problems and also played on astroturf.
CapSea - January 6, 2010
Geoff Baker is just a Drama Queen, ignoring him is the best thing.
Sam Regens - January 6, 2010
After of course "unfollowing" him and cancelling your subscription to the Times while telling them why.
Sam Regens - January 6, 2010
This is necessary and not in the least bit an overreaction
Jeff Sullivan - January 6, 2010
It will for sure put an major newspaper with no competition out of business.
Fuckmikereilly - January 6, 2010
Please, they'll do that themselves.
Matthew - January 6, 2010
Speaking of which...
I never, if you would have given me a thousand guesses, picked his post-baseball career to be “”http://www.brandedsolutions.com/aboutus/team/team.html" >CEO of an embroidery company".
Never. Not once.
craig3410 - January 6, 2010
That link worked in preview, dammit
craig3410 - January 6, 2010
Here you go, and it didnt work for me.
CEO of an embroidery company
Faux - January 6, 2010
Yup.
Hey, he was a business major in college before he decided to take the Ms up on their offer.
msb - January 6, 2010
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