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Beloved Mariner
Earlier this morning, the BBWAA revealed its complete 2011 Hall of Fame ballot, and listed among the 19 new candidates are former Mariners Tino Martinez, John Olerud, and Bret Boone.
None of these players, of course, will end up inducted, and they join other never-wills like Bobby Higginson and B.J. Surhoff - two guys who, incidentally, were named in countless Mariner trade rumors back in the day yet somehow never wound up coming north. These players, and others, now get to sit back and watch themselves fall off the ballot in a disgraceful display of post-career disrespect.
But I'm sure they'd say that even being placed on the ballot just once is an honor, so it's worth taking this opportunity to quickly reflect on what these three players meant to the Mariners organization.
- Tino was with the Mariners from 1990-1995, posting an .801 OPS before getting traded to the Yankees with Jim Mecir and Jeff Nelson in exchange for Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock. While he was traded at the beginning of his prime, he never really went on to get much better, his insane 1997 aside. Constantino Martinez by birth, he's remembered as being Edgar Martinez's brother by complete racists. His career OPS+ with Seattle is tied with those of David Segui and Mike Cameron.
- Olerud was with the Mariners for four and a half seasons, posting a .388 OBP. It's the third-highest OBP in Mariners history, behind Edgar and Ken Phelps, but because he leaned so heavily on walks and didn't run well or hit for much power, Olerud was kind of boringly effective in the way that you don't miss until you suffer through the career of Yuniesky Betancourt. 50% of his Mariner triples went towards hitting for the cycle.
- Boone was with the Mariners twice, and posted an .885 OPS between 2001-2003 as a solid defensive second baseman. His 2001 was one of the very best middle infielder seasons of all time, but he had the misfortune of doing that in the same year that Ichiro came over and Jason Giambi OPS'd 1.137 (Ichiro really shouldn't have won that MVP). The decline wasn't pretty, and reports of Boone's activity in retirement have been anything but positive, but more people need to understand how good Boone really was for a few years. No righty has ever done a better job of conquering the Safe.
Results of the voting will be announced on January 5th. Remember that Edgar will be on the ballot again after picking up 36.2% of the votes a year ago as a new candidate. You might remember 36.2% as also being the percentage of overweight Houston children between the ages of 6-17. Think about it.
So you're saying, if we combat the obesity problem in Houston, we screw Edgar out of his chance at the HOF?
So the solution is to ship those kids some more twinkies?
Patrick Stites - November 29, 2010
Conversely, we could trade for all of their in-shape kids.
SeattExPat - November 29, 2010
There'll be lots of rumors. Who knows if they ever wind up coming up north.
yuniform - November 29, 2010
Go Brett Boone!
Robert - November 29, 2010
Speaking of rumored Mariners on the Hall of Fame ballot
My memories of the late 1990s and early 2000s may be a bit hazy now, but I seem to recall that the Mariners had separate deals in place to acquire Juan Gonzalez and Raul Mondesi at one time or another, but the deals fell apart at the last minute due to ownership objections (I think the Tigers owner nixed the Gonzalez deal).
G_ - November 29, 2010
Oh yeah, the Gonzalez rumor was exciting
In the end, we got the other one!
Jeff Sullivan - November 29, 2010
Any memory of a Mondesi deal?
Unlike the proposed Gonzalez trade, I think the report about the Mondesi deal came out well after the fact. Was he part of the package the Dodgers offered for Randy Johnson?
G_ - November 29, 2010
I recall very prominent Mondesi rumors
but I cannot speak to the second part.
Jeff Sullivan - November 29, 2010
Are you saying Olerud does not deserve to be in the HOF or that he won't be voted in?
His fWar is 62, which seems just about enough to make it into the HOF. Isn’t the standard held to be around 60 WAR? He also has the career longevity of 16 years, which seems to aid his case. Furthermore, he has two seasons with an fWAR above 8 and another 7 above 3, suggesting he is was not just merely very good for a long time. Beyond that he also has another 2 seasons with a WAR of 2.9. He appears to have a good sabremetric case for being included to me.
In terms of the actual BBWAA voting, I think there is reason to believe he has a decent chance to make it in(obviously not the 1st ballot though). Olerud had an excellent defensive reputation despite attaining only 3 gold gloves. He also almost had a career OBP of .400, which might help counter his lack of HRs in the voters eyes. Moreover, he is one of a few very rare cases of a player skipping the minors altogether since the 1980s. He will be hurt by only having 2 all-star selections( his 1998 exclusion is just puzzling). However, this will be diminshed by the 2 world series victories with the Jays.
Olerud might actually be a great barometer to see if the BBWAA association has moved on from purely traditional counting stats to something slightly more advanced.
tdot mariner fan - November 29, 2010
I probably shouldn't have been so dismissive
You’re right, in that Olerud has an argument. I just don’t think it’ll work out in his favor.
Jeff Sullivan - November 29, 2010
He also shattered expectations set for helmeted Americans.
yuniform - November 29, 2010
I hope he does
I am very partial to him after his role in tthe 2001 Mariners and also due to living in Toronto during the 2 world series runs. The less stat heavy argument is definetly weaker though and due to his skillset, he was never the player that stuck out very much.
tdot mariner fan - November 29, 2010
It's fine if your "stat heavy" argument is based on OBP and defense.
His total zone defense of 89 sure seems good.
yuniform - November 29, 2010
He does have a pretty vocal online movement against him, however, that could easily sway the voters.
CapSea - November 29, 2010
Random Olerud statistics, cause that's what I do...
His career OBP is = to that of Joe DiMaggio.
He has more career hits than Willie Stargell or Mike Schmidt
Six fewer doubles than Babe Ruth yet 55 more than Rod Carew
More walks than Ty Cobb or Dave Winfield
His career best season (OPS-wise) was better than ARod’s career best OPS.
Total zone runs are better than Hank Aaron
Total zone runs at 1st base are better than anyone not named Pujols or Keith Hernandez
I will continue to pull random statistics out to create a Scott Boras-like binder in my campaign to get Olerud in the Hall. Even if he resembles Timothy McVeigh.
RustyJohn - November 30, 2010
What a wonderful sentence. Thanks Jeff.
yuniform - November 29, 2010
With all of the bandwagon fans jumping aboard at the end of the 1995 season
I think the Times or P-I had to point out that they were not brothers (and explain why Randy Johnson could only pitch every five days).
G_ - November 29, 2010
Some examples of the former:
the Martinezes are brothers in uniform only
the Martinez Non-Bros., Edgar and Tino
EDGAR, IS THAT YOU? NO, IT’S TINO
yuniform - November 29, 2010
This cracked me up.
sanford_and_son - November 29, 2010
Tino Martinez sucked
Poochie - November 29, 2010 via mobile
You just say that because he sucked for the Cardinals.
Robert - November 29, 2010
Not uh
Poochie - November 29, 2010 via mobile
He's tainted by the Yankee years
Every stupid Yankee fan thinks he’s a Hall of Famer, along with Scott Brosius and Paul O’Neil, because of the rings.
RustyJohn - November 30, 2010
When I think Hall of Fame player
I most definitely think of Lenny Harris:
Career OPS+ = 80
Career WAR = -0.9
Positions played = 8
Teams played for = 8
Seasons played = 18
So…Willie Boom Boom has a chance at making it on the ballot if he plays 15+ years?
Luposlipaphobia - November 29, 2010
Willie Bloomquist spent too much of his life in the American League to be the all-time leader in pinch-hits.
thehemogoblin - November 29, 2010
Ichiro may not have deserved the MVP in 2001,
but he arguably DID deserve it in 2004, so it all balances out.
quacker27 - November 29, 2010
Man, I didn't really remember
but the 2004 Cards had 3 legit MVP candidates. Of course, they finished 3-5 in the voting because of Bonds ridiculous season (I am still amazed at the 120 IBBs) and Beltre’s coming out season.
quacker27 - November 29, 2010
Barry Bonds robbed Jim Edmonds of about 4 MVPs
Poochie - November 29, 2010
This nonsense logic leads to Training Day winning Oscars.
yuniform - November 29, 2010
I meant it mostly tung-in-cheek.
The way I see it, is life’s to short to worry about whether the right guy won an award. I mean, I prefer it when the right guys does win and I like it when my guys win, but once it’s over it’s over.
quacker27 - November 30, 2010
Oh, and don't forget Sean Penn winning for his overacting in Mystic River.
Or Crash. It is not really the same thing, but I still don’t quite understand how it won Best Picture with the films it was up against.
quacker27 - November 30, 2010
So Alomar and Blyleven are in for sure this year as I see it.
And now the real fun begins. Palmiero should recieve the McGwire treatment and possibly worse because of the positive test. Bagwell if he had not played in the steroids era is a no doubt first ballot guy with 85-90%, in my opinion. So the question is; Will the voters penalize Bagwell, who was never linked to PED’s, because of the era in which he played? My gut says they will. My gut also says that Walker is harshly penalized for the Coors Field effect. He seems like a guy who should do better than Edgar in his first year and I honestly think he does worse by a healthy margin, probably with votes close to those of Fred McGriff.
Jack Swan - November 29, 2010
I feel most bad (is that correct grammer) for players who played the bulk of their careers in the early-mid 80s and retired in the 90s.
Like McGriff. They are stuck in this Purgatory of numbers good enough to make it into the Hall but for the steroid induced crazy numbers of ten years later.
RustyJohn - November 30, 2010
Steroids or not, Jeff Bagwell is one of the ten best firstbasemen of all time
I can’t imagine him not being elected. His peak was amazing and he was a five tool player who could do so many things well— which is a big deal in the eyes of many voters
Poochie - November 30, 2010 via mobile
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