Point #1: don't worry about Maikel Cleto, who's going to St. Louis. Cleto's only 21, and he has a big arm, but he's miles and miles away and his future - if he has one - almost certainly lies in the bullpen. This isn't a trade the Mariners are going to regret because of what they gave up.
Point #2: as many of you have already figured out, yes, Brendan Ryan starred in the best baseball commercial in baseball commercial history. While, by and large, mustache jokes aren't funny anymore due to overuse and limited creativity, the Ryan ad lives on as the pinnacle of the genre.
Point #3: the 28-year-old Ryan had a miserable 2010 season. He also has a career .658 OPS, while the league-average shortstop hovers around .700. Given Ryan's defensive expertise, it's fairly safe to say that he projects as league average for his position.
-----
This last point is important. It would be easy to look at Ryan's 2010 numbers and conclude that the Mariners didn't actually get any better, but that would be inaccurate. At the same time, the fact that the Mariners just lost 101 games causes us to overreact to good news, and nothing about this trade is genius or brilliant. The Mariners gave up a long-shot prospect for a decent player the Cardinals didn't want. That's all. Brendan Ryan is a decent player, and everything that being a decent player involves.
The thing that stands out the most about Brendan Ryan is his defense. Not only is he capable of playing second, short, and third - he's regarded as one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball. I've little choice but to mention that he's reliably posted an excellent UZR, but for those of you who don't care for the metric, Ryan has also scored very well in the Fan Scouting Report, and real scouts - professional scouts - love him as well. Brendan Ryan's a very good defensive infielder. That isn't a controversial statement. He has good hands, instincts, and range, and he's the kind of defender you notice for all the right reasons.
But, okay - the Mariners traded for an awesome defensive shortstop from the NL Central before, and he's just been a pile of crap. Ryan, though, isn't Jack Wilson. At the time of the trade, Wilson was 31 going on 60. Ryan doesn't have Wilson's track record of lower body injuries. He's young, and while his style of play can cause him to get banged up, he doesn't have Wilson's potential to disappear for weeks or months at a time. This isn't the same kind of deal.
So Ryan's defense is great. His health isn't a real concern. He is, additionally, a fairly good baserunner, as you'd expect. What that leaves us with is his bat. A bat that has posted two season OPS figures in the mid-.700s, and two season OPS figures in the high-.500s. What should we expect?
As a number of people have pointed out, Ryan was bothered by his wrist during the 2010 season, but says now that his wrist feels terrific. It's easy to imagine how a sore wrist could be bad news for a hitter, and while Ryan was able to pull the ball just as often in 2010 as he did in 2009, his results were a lot worse, hinting at reduced bat speed or control. A healthy wrist should pull his numbers back up a fair bit.
But it's not like Ryan is another Ichiro waiting to blossom. He doesn't have any power, and might hit two or three home runs. He doesn't have exceptional discipline, and he doesn't have an exceptional ability to make contact. You look at his career batting line of .259/.314/.344 and that seems about right. He's a slap-hitting middle infielder. You can only ask for so much.
So Ryan's a low-ceiling guy at the plate and a high-ceiling guy in the field. What makes him rather handy is that he fills a need. He only turns 29 next March, and has three remaining years of team control. He's more reliable than Jack Wilson, he's a better defender than Josh Wilson, and he's more predictable than Luis Rodriguez. He makes for a great fit for this particular roster, because he can keep second base warm until Dustin Ackley's service time-related promotion delay is up, and then he can either become a super-sub or just flat out take over at short if Jack isn't getting the job done. He's like everything Josh Wilson is, only better, which makes him an improvement, which makes him neat.
That Ryan won't hit very much will keep him from being a star. People will like him, though, because he looks good in a uniform, and he's always moving at least 12 of his muscles, and he has a bit of personality. And, of course, he'll help a bit on the field. So this is an across-the-board good move. Many thanks to the St. Louis hustling white middle infielder factory for being willing to help us out.
0 recs | 145 comments
Solid move.
Pretty much anything would be a step up from our shortstops last year.
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
Ah, unless the idea is to play him at second.
But at this point Jack Wilson has to be expected to miss sometime next season, in which case Ryan can play short.
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
I like these kinds of moves.
Low-risk, interesting, and potentially very useful.
ThundaPC - December 12, 2010
I would've been fine if the Mariners traded for him solely based on that commercial.
SethGrandpa - December 12, 2010
As would I.
Goose - December 12, 2010
I see it like this:
[Jack Z busts into the interns’ office with a huge box full of VHS tapes]
Jack: We need a number two starter. I need you guys to watch all of these MLB commercials and get back to me the top 10 funniest spots with #2 or #3 guys with at least +1 run difference between their ERA and their FIP on cost controlled contracts for the next two years. Highlight any guys who play for the Mets, Royals, Pirates or Cubs.
Interns: blank stares
Jack: I’ll need that by 9am.
doublemazaa - December 12, 2010
I knew I loved the statstical revolution.
SethGrandpa - December 12, 2010
A comparison
Brendan Ryan (career): 6.6 BB%, 13.7 K%, .085 ISO, .292 BABIP, .294 wOBA, 11.4 UZR/150 at SS
Elvis Andrus (career): 8.6 BB%, 16.2 K%, .067 ISO, .312 BABIP, .309 wOBA, 6.7 UZR/150 at SS
Brendan Ryan is pretty much Elvis Andrus. And Elvis Andrus plays half of his games in an extreme hitter’s park. If I told you we just traded Maikel Cleto for Elvis Andrus, you’d be doing cartwheels. This is a good trade.
JLC - December 12, 2010
Elvis Andrus is four years old
Graham MacAree - December 12, 2010
It's hard to believe there were other replies to explain why this comment misses important details.
philosofool - December 12, 2010
Sort of...
Other than the park about him being 21 years old and stealing 35 bases a year.
Capes - December 12, 2010
Well, yeah, of course
But there’s not a lot of room for Andrus to grow into more power when he pounds the ball into the ground nearly 60% of the time. Andrus obviously has more upside, but their skillsets are very similar. They both pound the ball into the ground and rely on their defense to give their teams value. I guess that’s more of a negative on Andrus than it is praise for Ryan, but the point is that we’re getting great value for what is ultimately not an amazing prospect.
JLC - December 12, 2010
And at the risk of nitpicking, Andrus is 22 going into 2011.
JLC - December 12, 2010
Ryan mentioned wanting to try to run more. And that STL didn't allow him to steal bases.
Scruffy Lefty - December 12, 2010
We just traded for Hanley Ramirez!
abender20 - December 12, 2010
The 20 pts in BABIP is kind of a big deal. One of these guys will have a high average and the other won't
Edgar for Pres - December 12, 2010
Is it really that big of a deal?
Not that Andrus and Ryan are that similar but 20 points in BABIP isn’t that significant I don’t think.
Mariner John - December 13, 2010
*part
Capes - December 12, 2010
Based on that commercial
This guy might be our “good guy” replacement for RRS
surfmonkey89 - December 12, 2010
The NL Central giveth, the NL Central taketh away.
thehemogoblin - December 12, 2010
I'm on board for this idea.
Goose - December 12, 2010
Somewhere, Josh Wilson said a naughty word
Michael Barr - December 12, 2010
Rats?
Mariner John - December 12, 2010
Oh fiddlesticks.
ThundaPC - December 12, 2010
Aw Hamburgers
Slurvey - December 12, 2010
Gooeyduck
CapSea - December 12, 2010
*Geoduck
I don’t live in Seattle either. Be ashamed…
BigR - December 12, 2010
Vegetarian.
So I am exempt from shame.
CapSea - December 12, 2010
Geoducks are better for spelling and pronouncing than they are for eating.
JY - December 12, 2010
Next you're going to tell me the main character of the Matrix isn't named Nooey.
CapSea - December 12, 2010
You took the blue pill, didn't you?
JY - December 12, 2010
Best sleep ever.
CapSea - December 12, 2010
Seeing as how the Geoduck is the Evergreen State College's mascot this is reallly no excuse
Aaron Campeau - December 12, 2010
I could start on why I think that school is terrible but I am not sure who I would offend.
CapSea - December 12, 2010
Me
Aaron Campeau - December 12, 2010
Great school. One of the best, really.
CapSea - December 12, 2010
Hey man, we've got an undefeated football team.
stredarts - December 12, 2010
What division? The Mighty Mite League? LOL
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
MO'toole - December 12, 2010
Hey man, please use a subject line in all future posts. It is greatly appreciated by the mods and the fellow readers here.
Kirk - December 14, 2010
no worries
No worries mate, I’ll do my best to comply
MO'toole - December 15, 2010
Horsepuckey!
JAH - December 12, 2010
This is the first time that I've encountered this word and my dad hasn't been the source.
Joe Metro - December 12, 2010
The product of watching a lot of M*A*S*H as a child.
JAH - December 12, 2010
I think Colonel Potter says horse hockey, not puckey...
God this subthread is making me look like a dick.
BigR - December 12, 2010
No, this is important.
He clearly says “horse hockey.”
Eyebrows - December 13, 2010
Well shit, where the hell did I learn that then?
JAH - December 13, 2010
I also need to know where my dad picked this up.
Joe Metro - December 13, 2010
Yes!!
I couldn’t remember if it was Ryan or Skip Schumacher who did the spinning mustache. I’m excited, If he could have a year like he did in 2009 I will do a happy dance.
Trenchtown - December 12, 2010
I bet his commercial for the Mariners will have something to do with him cock blocking Josh Wilson
in a variety of wholesome ways.
stredarts - December 12, 2010
More awesome is that the Cardinals loved Ryan
And now that we have him, they’re pissed. We rule.
Sarchasm - December 12, 2010
Well, their fans did
The FO and field management, not so much.
The Ancient Mariner - December 13, 2010
A Figgins-Wilson-Ryan infield is still not going to hit much.
But our infield defense should be pretty great, assuming Figgins’s goes back to being the glove he has been in the past at 3rd.
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
With Ichiro, Guti, Figgins, Wilson and Ryan, the team is running out five high-caliber defenders.
And with no Rob Johnson, there’s no Rob Johnson!
thehemogoblin - December 12, 2010
The downside to there being no Rob Johnson is that there WILL BE Miguel Olivo.
But I’m not really too upset about that. Our catchers have been bad for such a long time, I’m numb to it.
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
Wow, either the SBNation site for the Cardnials is huge, or they're really pissed.
This post on their site has 825+ comments.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/12/12/1871682/brendan-ryan-traded-to-mariners
doublemazaa - December 12, 2010
They even did a parody of "You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch"
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/12/12/1871682/brendan-ryan-traded-to-mariners#54269241
JY - December 12, 2010
I think that came out a little cluttered.
Link
JY - December 12, 2010
I like it when fans of the team we just dealt with are this pissed.
lailaihei - December 12, 2010
They called us douchebags and Matthew a killjoy. >:(
I hope Ryan kicks ass here.
wazzu93 - December 12, 2010
I'm a killjoy for trying to get people to stop being killjoys?
You cannot win on the internets
Matthew - December 12, 2010
You're doing it right now.
Kirk - December 12, 2010 via mobile
Dr. Matthew Killingjoy
JAH - December 12, 2010
Was this reference in to something specific?
Or just the general fact that Matthew is the world’s largest killjoy?
doublemazaa - December 12, 2010
Wow. They really liked this guy.
Your link led me to some interesting pieces they had on Ryan’s swing: here and here from May and August of last season, respectively.
It’ll be interesting to watch and see if the Mariners change his approach or adjust his swing at all.
Big Seahawk Loser - December 12, 2010
It's possible.
The M’s went pretty heavy on video scouting a while back, so if they noticed it they might try to correct it.
JY - December 12, 2010
Can't decide which is better ...
“He’s better than Dave Cameron. At least he sticks by his beliefs” or “seattle is a mexican food wasteland”
msb - December 12, 2010
I like the discussion on whether it was Deon Branch or Deon Grant that broke his leg at the end of the Seahawk game. :/
wazzu93 - December 12, 2010
I thought it was Sanders...
G@B3 - December 13, 2010
Well, duh...
Seattle IS a Mexican food wasteland…
rtang - December 12, 2010
Go to White Center
Aaron Campeau - December 12, 2010
Aptly named
abender20 - December 12, 2010
Oh
really?
msb - December 12, 2010
This is correct.
Sec 108 - December 13, 2010
To be fair, of the major international cuisines,
I would concede that Seattle does Mexican second worst of all. We also suck for Italian I find in terms of quantity of decent fooderies
Matthew - December 13, 2010
I would not disagree, but there are some very good Mexican restaurants in Seattle.
If White Center counts as Seattle.
Aaron Campeau - December 13, 2010
There certainly are
just nowhere near as many when compared to thai, vietnamese, korean, etc. Not that I believe there should be, just that I think it’s a reasonable critique
Matthew - December 13, 2010
Yeah, it is.
But honestly if I have to pick one over the other, Southeast Asian food wins.
Aaron Campeau - December 13, 2010
Try La Medusa solid rustic Italian.
InSpokane - December 13, 2010
I hate to nitpick, but it's technically Sicilian food
Much heavier North African and Middle Eastern influences due to being the most frequently conquered civilization in human history
Cougriculture - December 13, 2010
really when I was there. It was far more Northern Italy. Slow cooked pork, braised greens.
Anyway, not sure this the places for long winded food wars.
InSpokane - December 13, 2010
Yeah there are only a handful of decent Italian places.
Sadly compared to much of the country our Mediterranean food options are not very good.
Sec 108 - December 13, 2010
Olive Garden is the shit!
d0nkey - December 14, 2010
Yes, you can get pasta there!
That’s very Italian!
nathaniel dawson - December 14, 2010
We have good Salvadoran food.
Mariner John - December 13, 2010
Maybe, but just try to find even half-decent Asian in St. Louis
The Ancient Mariner - December 13, 2010
Solid reminder to appreciate the site rules here.
Joe Metro - December 12, 2010
Only 825? I’ve seen game threads at Viva El Birdos hit 2000 posts, if not more.
MO'toole - December 12, 2010
I'm sorry, but I find this proposition so outlandish and implausible that I demand a link to prove it.
Joe Metro - December 13, 2010
This is Overflow Thread I (of II)
from Game 112 last year, vs. the Reds after Brandon Phillips called the Cardinals “whiny bitches.” This thread has 1049 comments… Overflow Thread II has 1363 comments.
comments…\http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/8/10/1616603/game-112-overflow
salvomania - December 13, 2010
Whoosh.
Eyeball Kid - December 13, 2010
We have had game threads with over 5,000 comments.
We are a feisty bunch when we want to be.
CapSea - December 13, 2010
proof
proof or it didnt happen LOL
MO'toole - December 15, 2010
Please refrain from using chatspeak such as LOL, +1 and the like. We dislike it here.
Also, the subject line should ideally be the start of your comment, not just a copy of the first word(s)
Matthew - December 15, 2010
Good low priced move.
A good season at the plate would make things great.
dba - December 12, 2010
I'm surprised he doesn't get that many infield hits
He is fast right?
Edgar for Pres - December 12, 2010
I feel like some important insights from this article could get lost.
Hence, I’d like to repeat that mustache jokes aren’t funny anymore due to overuse and limited creativity.
philosofool - December 12, 2010
Newradio had my favorite use of the mustache for comedy:
Link
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
@ 1:00 in
quacker27 - December 12, 2010
"Your confusing thesis has captured my attention. Tell me more."
I always forget how much I enjoyed that series.
msb - December 13, 2010
That was one of the most awesomest under-rated shows of all time
Freakishly funny.
nathaniel dawson - December 13, 2010
It's still one of my all-time favorite shows.
Although the fifth season suffers a bit from the tragic lack of Phil Hartman. Max Lewis is no Bill McNeal.
quacker27 - December 13, 2010
The gag with the three women before the credits is wonderful.
yuniform - December 13, 2010
It's fun that there continues to be this trickle of little moves
ignacio - December 12, 2010
I presume that there is one more trickle to go
Starting pitching depth.
Tord F - December 12, 2010
Bedard!
CMC_Stags - December 13, 2010
Three aces!
BrownL - December 13, 2010
If you find there are more trickles, throughout the day
you should talk to a Dr. about that.
and scene
Ballard Erik - December 15, 2010
Like the move
This should mean we get to watch some pretty sweet defense at SS this year. Either Jack Wilson or Ryan should be there all year. Plus we have our 2B situation handled and for low dollars with a player we aren’t obligated to pay for long.
short - December 12, 2010
Finally, a move that gets me a little bit excited about next season
Corco - December 12, 2010
After some thought, I'm warming up to the thought of Ryan in the lineup
It really was a no-lose trade.
I mean he couldn’t be any worse (or uglier) than Jack Wilson, and certainly no worse than Josh.
Any of these 3 should be hitting 9th in the lineup however.
Tord F - December 12, 2010
And if two are in the game, they should both be hitting 9th
The Ancient Mariner - December 13, 2010
Good insurance for when Jack's eventual stint on the DL
Plus, it gives us a legitimate utility infielder that we can plug in when I guy needs a day off. There seems to be a lot to like about this deal
beastwarking - December 12, 2010
What do you mean "eventual"?
That presumes it won’t happen for quite a while . . .
The Ancient Mariner - December 13, 2010
He probably means April 15th.
ToddK - December 13, 2010
I hope they take it easy on him in Spring Training.
He needs to last at least a couple of weeks into the regular season if they want to save a year of Ackley’s service time.
nathaniel dawson - December 13, 2010
This trade also gives us the chance to remember how great the Putz/Gutz trade was
We traded Luis Valbuena for Brendan Ryan!
yuniform - December 12, 2010
Is that going to become the next Mark Langston deal, where the lineage lasts for 20 years after?
thehemogoblin - December 12, 2010
It's already a part of the Langston lineage.
Since Jeremy Reed was involved.
Coach Owens - December 12, 2010
I'm shocked by how alive the lineage still is
A chart
xero3k - December 12, 2010
A couple of corrections needed to the chart.
Ezequiel Carrera was traded by the Mariners along with Juan Diaz to the Indians earlier this year for Russell Branyan. Also, Miguel Olivo was actually traded by the Mariners to the Padres for Nathanael Mateo and Miguel Ojeda in 2005. Frankly I’m not sure if we traded Olivo again now that we’ve signed him if that would count on the Langston tree or not. I’m leaning not.
drblacknwhite - December 13, 2010
I'd say no as well, because Olivo was reacquired at a later date.
Also, wasn’t there a trade of Carlos Guillen that isn’t on that tree? I don’t know what it affects, however.
thehemogoblin - December 13, 2010
Yes, forgot about that one somehow.
Carlos Guillen was traded to the Tigers for Juan Gonzalez (not that one) and Ramon Santiago in January 2004.
drblacknwhite - December 13, 2010
I missed those!
Fixed.
I think I’m inclined to agree with you on Miguel Olivo, as well.
xero3k - December 13, 2010
The chart seems to be getting a bit crowded...
xero3k - December 13, 2010
And you still need to put the Olivo to the Padres trade on there :)
I’m going to be unreasonably sad if that tree ever dies out.
drblacknwhite - December 13, 2010
Ezequiel Carrera's last name is misspelled as "Carrara."
Also, I would just make the whole image a bit wider and reshuffle it so it is clear who is delineated from which “parent” player. You should have an infinite amount of space to work with, in theory, so making things easy to read and follow should be the most important thing.
thehemogoblin - December 13, 2010
That's a really cool resource by the way. I'm going to bookmark it for when I need it.
thehemogoblin - December 13, 2010
I'll probably remake it in something a little more future capable
I’m currently restricted by landscape mode in Word
xero3k - December 13, 2010
For now, here's the latest version
Link For some reason, ImageShack doesn’t let me replace images.
Thanks for the continuing feedback — I started just trying to visualize this myself, since everyone always talks about it when a linked trade goes down, but I’m glad at least one other person finds it useful!
xero3k - December 13, 2010
Other downside of using Word: all the "spelling mistakes" I ignored again are underlined
xero3k - December 13, 2010
I'd correct you on the spelling of Mr. Mateo's first name, if it weren't for the fact that his parents spelled it wrong to begin with.
nathaniel dawson - December 13, 2010
That chart reminded me of this:
2009 Mariners
Tube - December 13, 2010
So Ryan also links back to the Griffey-to-CIN trade
Griffey > Tomko > Ben Davis > Jeremy Reed > Cleto > Brendan Ryan.
I hope Carrera or Carp is part of some crazy package so this doesn’t trade lineage doesn’t die.
yuniform - December 13, 2010
Carrera already got us Russell Branyan.
JY - December 13, 2010
Should also note, it actually goes back further
since Langston was acquired with the comp pick for Bill Stein, who was on the M’s roster for opening day of their inaugural season.
The Ancient Mariner - December 13, 2010
Technically this trade is part of it.
Langston → Randy → F. Garcia → J. Reed → Cleto → Brendan Ryan
PShwa - December 12, 2010
Mind is blown.
thehemogoblin - December 12, 2010
I like him because of his socks.
zeeehjee - December 12, 2010
THEY'RE STIRRUPS!
thehemogoblin - December 12, 2010
We need a fancy version
SILVER AND BLUE STIRRUPS!
OceanBird - December 12, 2010
How about blue and teal?
More team-color-y, less gray-y.
thehemogoblin - December 13, 2010
Blue and NORTHWEST GREEN.
JAH - December 13, 2010
I deserved that.
thehemogoblin - December 13, 2010
Last year, Figgins WAR + Lopez's WAR + J. Wilsons' (both of 'em) WAR = Brendan Ryan's WAR.
Our infield suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.
SethGrandpa - December 13, 2010
And the best part is we figured those four to combine for about 8 WAR!
seattlebruin - December 13, 2010
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