(Don't miss this week's LL Podcast, which is now only a little outdated!)
This is something that's been bothering me for a few weeks, now, so I might as well take a little time to address it. After all, it's only a rare, beautiful day outside in a Portland March. Why not find something to blog about? Computers!
Over the course of the month, a clear divide between Mariner fans has developed. There've been the people in support of Mike Sweeney returning, and the people not in support of Mike Sweeney returning. It's not that simple, of course - it's never that simple - but that captures the bulk of it. Some people have wanted to see Sweeney back on the team, and others have not.
The people who wanted Sweeney to come back have pointed out, almost to a man, what Sweeney did down the stretch in 2009. Mike Sweeney, you'll remember, came off the DL on July 21st and hit .311/.372/.500 the rest of the way over 137 trips to the plate. He was one of the team's best hitters in the second half, and this little fact has been brought up time and time again in stating that Sweeney can still hit a ton when he's healthy. "You can't get rid of Sweeney," many have argued, "because he might be the best hitter on the team when he's not battling injuries."
You may not be surprised to find out that I don't put much stock in this analysis. Let me tell you why!
Look, I like Mike Sweeney just fine. I'm not trying to incite some crusade against the guy and everything he stands for. I think it's kind of cute that our DH platoon consists of our franchise icon and somebody else's too. But the people who support having Sweeney on the team need to be realistic about what he brings to the table. In the poll below, I voted for "Make it better" because I don't think that ST data is literally 100% meaningless, but it doesn't make it so much better that I think Sweeney is really good. He's not. He's posted a .750 OPS over his last 1000 trips to the plate, and that's probably about what we should expect from him this season. Maybe a little better as a platoon bat. But nothing spectacular. .311/.372/.500 is not representative of Mike Sweeney's true talent. It's just the batting line he put up over a limited number of games.
Back in 2006, Mike Sweeney came off the DL and hit .275/.367/.497 over a month and a half. The next year he OPS'd .719.
2 recs | 80 comments
I am fine with having Sweeney on this team.
But not Sweeney and Griffey. Even then, I would prefer them to be bench bats exclusively, not a DH platoon. Milton Bradley is a perfect DH platoon by himself. This team is better off with Bradley at DH and running a LF platoon of Byrnes and Langerhans.
I am not too worried about this situation, though, because this team can change quickly. We thought Endy Chavez was going to play a full season in LF last year. Instead, he got injured and GMZ found a replacement. Sweeney and Griffey are prone to injury and I would count on something changing before June.
Wilder. - March 31, 2010
Sweeney's back, free hugs for everyone!
EAT IT JOHNSON!
Alexander Calloway - March 31, 2010
Do I sense that you might be just a little tired of talking about Mike Sweeney?
(I know I am)
Jeff Nye - March 31, 2010
I have a whole other post I'm thinking of writing about him too
GET OUT OF MY BRAIN
Jeff Sullivan - March 31, 2010
Mike Sweeney as a pitcher? Find out at 11
Dewey N - March 31, 2010
Mike's Weeney
lemonverbena - March 31, 2010
I support there being another Mike Sweeney post as long as you use this as the title.
Jeff Nye - March 31, 2010
I don't think I would enjoy the Google traffic
Jeff Sullivan - March 31, 2010
Profit motherfucker!
Comcast doesn’t pay you in Greek drachma.
lemonverbena - March 31, 2010
Which is good, because that would be nearly useless
abender20 - March 31, 2010
Until the Euro collapses...
hairofthedawg - March 31, 2010
Oh, but I would, were you to post it!
Jeff Nye - March 31, 2010
I wanna say first off that I'm not super pro Mike Sweeney, I think there could be better options.
But someone pointed out that Garko would be the better option because he’s had a better wOBA over the past 5 years. Well I was curious, so I did some research on Fangraphs and found out that Garko and Sweeney have had the about the same wOBA over that stretch of time. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but If some one wants me to go and back myself up feel free to ask, I will.
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
Garko's career Fangraphs wOBA is .347
Sweeney hasn’t touched that since 2005.
Jeff Sullivan - March 31, 2010
OK,I miss calculated...
Averaged over last 4 years
wOBA Garko: 348.5
wOBA Sweeney: 326.25
Still, isn’t league average wOBA like .320 or .330?
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
Ok I think I replied failed again,
are you supposed to reply under your last comment in a conversation, or under the last person that responded to you?
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
If it's a reply to a specific post, reply to that post.
But there’s really no hard-and-set rules about it. Your “OK,I miss calculated…(sic)” post would work fine as either a reply to Jeff’s post or to your original post, as it could either be seen as a reply to his comment or as an amendment to your original post, wouldn’t matter much. Play it by ear, do what makes sense, and don’t fret over it too much (as long as you’re not replying at the bottom of the page of course)
Terminator X - March 31, 2010
Thank you, that clears it up a TON.
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
over the last 5 years
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
thats what i'm argueing
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
Because someone argued that
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
AHH
Matthew - March 31, 2010
Thanks Matt sorry
I forget since i’m not such a usual poster
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
I do follow this whole blog daily though.
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
Two more things!
1. My name, as you can see, is Matthew. Not Matt.
2. Personal pronouns, such as ‘I’, are capitalized.
Thank you for your future adherence.
Matthew - March 31, 2010
Oops, I was too slow!
Jeff Nye - March 31, 2010
To save you a bit of grief, he prefers Matthew
Jeff Nye - March 31, 2010
will do, thanks
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
You have 400 comments here!
seattlebruin - March 31, 2010
What I meant was that I don't post quite as often as the regulars here,
But wow, I remember when I first joined, and I was complaining how I would never be able to compete with the amount of comments some of the people here have. Time sure goes fast…
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
I forgot we used to have a different font color on the byline.
Matthew - March 31, 2010
The color difference now serves as a natural highlight.
Do you guys have input or control of the colors being used?
Wilder. - March 31, 2010
That's Ichiro and Sweeney in the photo right?
Why is Ichiro a former Indian? Am I missing a reference somewhere?
ChristopherA - March 31, 2010
He's standing in CF
Aaron Campeau - March 31, 2010
Ahh I get it now.
The ‘sets his sight’ language made me think Sweeney was supposed to be looking at him. That was stupid of me.
ChristopherA - March 31, 2010
I thought the same thing
RunningFool - March 31, 2010
He's talking about Guti, right?
C-Nage - March 31, 2010
Ichiro is racist against Indians, and baserunners specifically
lemonverbena - March 31, 2010
Maybe Z is a wizard.
Banking on clubhouse alchemy, looking for some magic in those old bats, plus he can turn all the hair on his body invisible.
But in all seriousness, Sweeney was given the tiniest sliver of a chance of making the roster, and he jumped all over it. He went out and earned himself a job, and I respect that. I know this roster cannot last the season and contend, but that’s really not a big deal. As was said earlier, the Mariners lineup will probably be significantly different in June. Honestly, given the choice between Sweeney and Garko for the short term, I would choose Sweeney. And if it doesn’t work out, it’s just in the short term. Things can change on a major league team. They almost always do. But for now, this team has a better chance of winning tomorrow with Mike Sweeney than with Ryan Garko. As soon as that statement becomes untrue, it’s time to make a change. But for now, I want Sweeney on the team.
Sukafish - March 31, 2010 via mobile
Amen
IMHO, yes Chemistry is good, but GMZ has objectively concluded that Sweeney gives the Mariners a better chance to succeed. The Man has a substantial career demonstrating that he is a Plus hitter, and ignoring the fact that he has gone all out during the offseason to get on this team is insane. I know that a lot of fans of this site either don’t understand, or don’t want to acknowledge what it means for someone at this stage of a storied career to go to this effort to make a team – but it is HUGE! I readily admit that no amount of effort or desire can overcome all of the effects of Father Time, but do you even have any inkling of how much this guy WANTS to make the team and contribute? And no, you won’t find the answer to that question in fangraphs. The Man is the penultimate response to what you will not find in the stat sheets.
And for the record, I am REALLY happy with the decision to go with Kotchman as the everday first baseman. I was not at all a fan of the Kotchman move early on, but I’ve become a believer. I think he’s going to be a pivotal player, and is going to be MUCH more valuable that Branyon would have been, and platooning with Garko would have been disastrous. I don’t see Garko as being even an iota better against lefties as Kotchman.
Yeah, yeah, i absolutely admit to being a homey. And I knew at some point the comments like “GMZ and Wak are the greatest ever, and they’re brilliant, but on this one point I think I’m so much smarter, and I don’t understand why they are so dumb” were going to emerge. I tried to be prepared and not go crazy – BUT THOSE KINDS OF REMARKS DRIVE ME CRAZY!
Edrac - April 1, 2010
If his desire to play baseball is so strong that he can become a superhero, where have these powers been the last three years?
He used to be a plus hitter. That was a long time ago. Crushing AA pitchers for a few weeks doesn’t change the fact that he’s not much of a big league player anymore.
And no one’s discounting how hard he’s trying. I’m happy as hell for him, and I imagine most people around here would agree. But that’s an entirely different discussion from “is this guy going to improve the team?” I love Mike Sweeney, but his presence on the team really hurts the flexibility of the bench, particularly with Griffey on the team and Hannahan going on the DL. He’s played 24 games at first base in the past three years, and he’s not getting any quicker. Garko is the better player, as far as I can tell.
Teej - April 1, 2010
"Crushing AA Pitchers" will be the name of my new mashup side project with DJ Danger Mouse
lemonverbena - April 1, 2010
I have just learned that the team is going with 11 pitchers, so I'm a little less frustrated by Sweeney's presence.
Teej - April 1, 2010
Rich Harden is a AA pitcher?
I get the context of ST performance, as does the M’s FO. While certainly part of the decision is made with the ST performance in mind – I believe the M’s FO is smart enough to not base this decision entirely on ST OR on ‘chemistry’…
I understand what you’re saying here, but whatever minuscule defensive differences between Garko and Sweeney exist, they weren’t going to really be highlighted/taken advantage of in the role that spot is going to play on this team. The M’s are giving, for better or for worse, Kotchman the same opportunity they gave Branyan and Gutierrez last year. He’s the starter and is going to get as much time there, platoon opportunities be damned. Just because Garko is less likely to break down than Sweeney is playing first base doesn’t mean he’s really an option you want playing there much. And since Kotchman’s going to get a huge bulk of the reps there, whoever his backup is really isn’t going to get much PT.
Even if you think Garko’s a servicable first baseman that could play more than once a week, he certainly can’t play anywhere else (except DH, which, yeah, on this roster — stand in freakin’ line). The argument that Sweeney over Garko takes away flexibility is not very sound. Yes, technically Garko’s youth and that he’s less-broken, historically, gives him a little bit of an edge over Sweeney, but defensively Garko really doesn’t give you any more flexibility than Sweeney does. Maybe a little if you were counting on him in a reasonable platoon situation, but that’s clearly not the case here.
Let’s take one step further back. Let’s take Sweeney out of the picture completely…
Would losing Garko really be that big of a deal if it were Everidge or Nelson taking his spot? Technically, you still have the same defensive roster flexibility issues. At best these guys can hold down the fort at 1B for a game or two a week, but you really wouldn’t want them playing there much either. Sweeney can still play 1B on occasion, as needed, on a short-term basis – at least as much as one of those other guys could. Any difference between Sweeney and any one of those guys would be insignificant (defensively) at best. Whether Sweeney or one of these other types of players, you still have the roster flexibility problem.
And that’s one argument that I just won’t accept as a reason to be upset by this move. I’m just trying to be level-headed about it. I may sound like a Sweeney fanboy over my whole conversations about this – whatever. I do think Sweeney’s got a little left in the tank. I’m very much on board with Shield’s idea of running him into the ground. Is Garko so irreplaceable that when Sweeney (or Griffey for that matter) finally show that they can’t hit anymore the M’s will either not be able to or refuse to do anything about it? Doubtful.
PositivePaul - April 1, 2010
One at bat against Rich Harden
And if we’re judging players by their spring training stats, Harden has been awful this spring.
OlSalty - April 1, 2010
This may not be the Mariner blog for you.
If it is then it may no longer be the Mariner blog for me.
Sec 108 - April 1, 2010
Sometimes I, AS WELL, like to capitalize random WORDS that I type because it allows others to SEE just how EMPHATIC I am
Dewey N - April 1, 2010
Do you admit to being a homey though?
seattlebruin - April 1, 2010
Don't PLAY me
Dewey N - April 1, 2010
I just don't understand, EMPHATICALLY!
Does Sweeney even own a glove? BUY THIS MAN A GLOVE! FATHER TIME! GARKO OPTIONS LOUD NOISES
lemonverbena - April 1, 2010
All that's missing is the sound of shattering glass at the end of this post.
ToddK - April 1, 2010
This is the penultimate way to express your excitement.
Teej - April 1, 2010
He hit .408 in last year's spring training
I guess he’s the type of player that feasts on terrible pitchers. Shocking.
craig3410 - April 1, 2010
I agree with some of what you're saying
I like that fact that GMZ allowed Sweeney a chance in ST to win a job, he performed and you can’t really discount that. That’s the right way to do things, if you play well you win a job, simple.
But he’s probably going to suck this year
kkobers - April 1, 2010 via mobile
He probably will,
and I’m hoping that the M’s will do what is necessary if/when it becomes clear that Sweeney cannot contribute to the success of the team as a ballplayer. Perhaps he’ll get an “oblique strain” that never really “heals” so he can hug it out all season from the 60-day DL.
Sukafish - April 1, 2010
Your conclusion would seem to directly contradict the logic of your first thought.
abender20 - April 1, 2010
I can discount it
Putting up a month of good numbers in Spring Training is not the same as putting up a good month in the regular season, the quality of opponent tends to be much worse and players are not playing at their best level. Add to that that it’s only a month of data anyways, and there’s a pretty good case to be made that you should not be using Spring Training performance alone to make major roster changes. Results can be heavily influenced by luck or poor competition over such a short span.
If he’s probably going to suck this year, he shouldn’t have a job, that’s just hurting yourself unnecessarily. In the end it’s probably not that big of a deal, it’s just an annoying step backwards, however minor.
OlSalty - April 1, 2010
From the Mariners official game notes for today,
Janic - April 1, 2010
Nicknames are officially dead in American sports
Teej - April 1, 2010
I wish we could ban dog/dawg suffix as an acceptable nickname for anyone
OlSalty - April 1, 2010
I'd make an exception for Fred "The Crime Dog" McGriff.
Jed MC - April 1, 2010
That is the only one that makes sense
Edgar for Pres - April 1, 2010
I'm just tired of hearing the "first initial and shortened last name" nickname plastered to damn near everyone.
JLProck - April 1, 2010
Whatevs, J-Pro.
Eyebrows - April 1, 2010 via mobile
Byrnesie, Guti, Ichi, Lopey, Jackie, Figgy, Kotchy...
I mean, can we get away from all of these adding the eeeeee at the end of every name?
Then I find it funny those already with the eeeeee sound at the end of their name get something different.
Griffey —> Griff-dawg
Sweeney —> Sween-dawg
Bradley —> Racist jackass
Wilder. - April 1, 2010
There are still some good nicknames in baseball.
Eyebrows - April 1, 2010 via mobile
A-Rod
seattlebruin - April 1, 2010
Oh sure. I'm sure there will always be a few good ones.
It’s more the process that frustrates me. The A-Rod, I-Rod (he already had a fucking awesome nickname!), K-Rod (at least slightly creative), etc. And the first-initial thing that JLProck mentions. And everyone just getting an “eee!” added at the end of their name. Lopey! Figgy! Cammy! (Though I guess that’s more of a way to show familiarity than it is a nickname, but still.)
Dice-K is the worst nickname ever. “That’s how you pronounce it!” Not really. And even if you did, it still makes zero sense. I suppose you could argue the whole K-strikeout thing, but I don’t get the “Dice.” It’s just changing the spelling of someone’s name to make it an English word? What am I missing here? Have we ever done that for any other player?
Finally, and I’ve ranted about this here before, not every athlete needs a nickname. If it doesn’t come naturally, just wait. Something will come. And if it doesn’t, oh well. At least we didn’t force it.
I care way too much about this.
Teej - April 1, 2010
I'm going to start calling David Wright "Day-vid Right."
David sounds the same as if you added “vid” to the word “day.” Plus he’s “right” handed! OH MAN!
Teej - April 1, 2010
Adding the -y to names drives me crazy too.
It’s generally managers/coaches that do that, right? Scioscia does it constantly, and it drives me nuts. ESPECIALLY when it actually adds a syllable to the name. Shieldsy is not acceptable, Mike.
Eyebrows - April 1, 2010 via mobile
Happens everywhere in sports, in broadcasting, etc. Totally annoying.
lemonverbena - April 1, 2010
It's East Coast Bias at its finest...
It’s a part of the dialect in Boston to add “y” to people’s names. My relatives & friends from Boston do this to me every time — “Paul-y”
Personally, I prefer the southern drawl syllable expansion. When I taught ESL, I used to use that as an example for what syllables are. Turn my 1-syllable name “Paul” into 3-4 distinct syllables like “Paw-uh-uhlll-luh.”
PositivePaul - April 1, 2010
Loafie is a great nickname, though
seattlebruin - April 1, 2010
Absolutely.
Teej - April 1, 2010
You're welcome!
Matthew - April 1, 2010
I prefer Choloafie
abender20 - April 1, 2010
Baseball players and managers are horrendously uncreative. It's a problem.
abender20 - April 1, 2010
(Casey) Crotchman, (Russell the) Love Muscle, Fister
And Mike’s Weeney, mentioned before.
Scratchy…as in Scratchy Byrnes
lokiforever - April 1, 2010
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