We have a problem in the game threads right now. Comments move too fast and there is too much bickering. When a game thread is going bad, people get cranky and that can cause them to harp on minor infractions more harshly. The person attacked can easily get defensive in response and then things spiral out from there, making the game thread even worse. It's an easy whirlpool to get drawn into, but we can break that cycle. We can make game threads enjoyable again.
We cannot go back to the game threads that we had in 2007 or 2008; there are vastly more people around now. That's not a bad thing though! Having more people commenting is a good thing. More people means more ideas. More people means more humor. More people means more styles. More people drives us all to be more informed, quicker-witted and better writers.
I don't want to lecture on the rules and guidelines of the site; I want to focus on the solution. The good news is these issues are almost exclusively confined to the game threads and those are the easiest to remedy. We have done it before. April is always a rough month integrating new people into our manner and style of commenting on games and we must all remember to be patient.
To the newer people: coming into Lookout Landing is a difficult endeavor, I know. Our standards are high when compared to the rest of the Internet and I do not blame you for not being 100% on board from the beginning. Do not get discouraged, but do take time to figure out how to better assimilate into our community. Ambrose counseled Augustine that, "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way." Try reading game threads from the middle of last season to get a better feel for we prefer them to go.
Take advice from those that have walked the same path before. There's a very good post about our general principles from our of our most esteemed statesmen, pdb. Do not miss an extraordinary comment inside that post by CapSea who is also someone who has been around here for a long time and gone through some of the same growing pains that some of you are enduring right now. It takes time to get the hang of a new place, and you will be given that time, but you will also do yourself a great service if you observe first before jumping right in.
To the veteran posters: I remind you that if you go searching through the archives, you can assuredly find examples of yourself acting in ways that we collectively no longer deem acceptable here. I know I can. When someone breaks one of our rules remember your own past transgressions and strive to maintain patience. Before you rush to correct someone who posted without a subject line, exceeded the maximum image height or used chat speak, pause for a moment. Chances are, someone else is writing that same response and if we restrain ourselves, we avoid piling on and treating new posters - who just want to contribute - to a dozen replies highlighting their infraction.
To everyone: try to err on the side of not posting as much during game threads. We have a tragedy of the commons on our hands. Self-restraint is a useful skill in all facets of life and you can exercise it to great benefit here. Hundreds of people inhabit the game threads all at once. When a big event happens, you can count on many people to post something and try asking yourself if there's something original that you can contribute. When a small event happens, ask yourself if it's worth acting as if a single blown strike call is really on par with the Tartars demanding personal tribute from you in exchange for your sovereignty.
I understand; sometimes you want to express a hilarious new way that you want to pleasure Franklin Gutierrez after another terrific defensive play. Will people see your witty comment though? If 50 comments fly by after even minor developments in the game, good comments are missed; needles lost in a haystack. Without people willing to sacrifice a little of their desire to share every emotion for the greater good that is thread readability, everyone suffers. That's not to say you should completely neuter yourself. We don't want fewer needles. We want a smaller haystack.
That deluge of comments also drowns out the back and forth that is essential to building a community. That's where shared jokes are developed and personal interactions formed. It's where we get a sense of community and it's that sense of kinship that makes game threads so damn fun. It unites us and heightens our joys. It helps blunt our disappointments because we share them together. Let's keep that goal in mind as we go forward this season.
20 recs | 56 comments
Just want to say that this is really well-written, Matthew.
It’s a challenge to balance levity with a bit of kind-natured encouragement/scolding, but you did a great job. The tone is just perfect.
I pledge to do a better job of being patient. Watch out world! You’re all getting hugs!
Eyebrows - April 23, 2010 via mobile
Yes, hugs!
And purple-tongue lovin’.
Eyebrows - April 23, 2010 via mobile
Hugs?
I have Sweeney for that!
E-Lizz - April 23, 2010
Agreed. Very well said.
Sec 108 - April 23, 2010
I love you
Jeff Sullivan - April 23, 2010
Thanks, babe.
I know.
Eyebrows - April 23, 2010 via mobile
Thanks for posting this
I’m new here this year and read this site for a few months before I began posting. I joined because I think this site in brilliant and the people on here are hilarious. Really, reading some of the past game threads had me falling out of my chair.
I understand you guys have a lot of guidelines. I’ve tried not to make any outlandish comments till I get into the swing of things here. But anyway, thanks for posting this. Lets hope for a more… cheerful game thread tonight!
E-Lizz - April 23, 2010
You might say we want a haystack full of needles.
A prickly haystack, even.
Two Rs and Two Ls - April 23, 2010
Well said. I've broken my Z key trying to get through the comments during games; must be a hoot for the mods.
wazzu93 - April 23, 2010
I have stopped reading them, by and large
Graham MacAree - April 23, 2010
Can you still use The Banhammer while on sabaticaLL?
Decatur - April 23, 2010
Yes
Graham MacAree - April 23, 2010
Very well written piece, thank you!
Heydude - April 23, 2010
This post reminds me not to take this community for granted
This is a truly excellent forum, and I don’t often stop to think about all the effort and intelligence that has gone into creating it and preserving it that way. Kudos to the many contributors.
Attractive Nuisance - April 23, 2010
May we never leave our basements!
Eyebrows - April 23, 2010 via mobile
If we leave our basements, the entire community suffers.
JY - April 23, 2010
I think it was a game last week where everyone was getting on me for the criticizing the redundant posts.
Like the 20 “K!” posts that show up after a meaningless strikeout in a 11-2 game, or Guti dribbling a roller through the left side as enough of a reason to start posting how much you love him. I feel like posting stuff like that should be saved for big moments. If we get a key, bases loaded strikeout with 2 outs in the eighth or something, then go for it, write k! if you have to. Or when Guti made that catch in Texas to win our second game, go ahead and have an orgy, because it’s kind of expected that we can’t restrain ourselves in those moments. Even so, it’s a lot more fun when the posts are witty and original.
I remember Jeff and Matthew being the only ones who supported my criticism and saw the posts as annoying. So I’m glad to see this addressed, and I wasn’t disrespecting too many people by wondering.
By the way, I was totally unaware of the no-numbers rule for screen names, so hopefully you don’t hold that against me for too long.
refuse2lose2010 - April 23, 2010
In fairness,
when Felix is putting up K’s, it’s always exciting.
harkening - April 23, 2010
You've been here for less than two weeks.
I’m pretty sure that’s where the dislike of your criticism stemmed from. It has nothing to do with the validity of the concern, but when you are new person, you should go out of your way to show deference to others.
Matthew - April 23, 2010
The no-numbers thing isn't a rule, actually
CapSea brought it up because most people that post here regularly do not have them, and a lot of times it’s easy to spot a troll because they have a username like ichrorocks23049 or something like that. The numbers themselves are fine, it’s the behavior we’re interested in preserving.
pdb - April 23, 2010
But, but, but....
kentroyals5 - April 23, 2010
You are a well behaved person and are not thus the subject of username number disdain
pdb - April 23, 2010
I also said "skeptical of you for a while"
not “will never respect you, jerkface.” Some of our best members have numbers.
CapSea - April 24, 2010
The point is that everyone is typing at the same time and it is a result of SBN2.0 and more commenters
seattlebruin - April 23, 2010
This seems like a good place to remind everyone to flag posts that violate site "rules"
… and add a nicely worded explanation.
Flags make it much easier for the mods to respond to potentially problem posts. Your kind note will help someone understand what is expected of others, even if the post does not end up being hidden or deleted.
Steve Nelson - April 23, 2010
We can still yell at Rob Johnson as much as we want though, right?
Please?
sanford_and_son - April 23, 2010
I'm just glad I wasn't called an elder statesman
pdb - April 23, 2010
Age ain't nothing but a number, babe.
abender20 - April 24, 2010
I thought last night's game thread went well, though at the start everyone sorta felt all awkward.
“Uhhh is this postable?” Not that I necessarily think that’s a bad thing, but it was interesting to notice. I did notice a lot more banter back and forth, which is always fun.
Jackle Mackle - April 24, 2010 via mobile
I noticed a lot more of seattlebruin replying to himself.
IN ALL CAPS.
ABOUT JOSE LOPEZ!
harkening - April 24, 2010
Yes, but SB can do that.
Aaron Campeau - April 24, 2010
I wasn't criticizing.
It was more along the lines: “It looks like back and forth, but really…” I didn’t notice significantly more back and forth in this game thread than any other. I think it appears to be more for a few different reasons, including that we cut out a lot of “junk” posts, and thus the comments that got replied to were larger in proportion, but not numerically greater. It’s hard to follow the back-and-forth on the old threads because of all the extras, whereas it was easier to pick up on them now.
harkening - April 24, 2010
That's probably true. I think the point is that it was more noticeable.
Jackle Mackle - April 24, 2010
Nicely put, Matthew.
This is a great community and we all need to work to maintain one of LL’s greatest features.
abender20 - April 24, 2010
I've pretty much stopped commenting because I realize I have nothing to contribute.
Even my last few posts have been mostly useless chit-chat. I guess this is how one reverts to lurker form.
esoteric - April 24, 2010
My point being that gamethreads are particularly problematic for me in that regard.
esoteric - April 24, 2010
Thanks Matthew.
I hope this makes the game threads slightly more manageable.
Kirsten Schlewitz - April 24, 2010
Well put.
One helpful tool I use to keep myself in check is to every once in a while take a look at my commenting history. If the comment:reply ratio is low, it’s likely because I’m not making good/interesting comments and it’s probably time to take a break. Flowers are blooming!
waldo rojas - April 24, 2010
That's a potentially great sanity check, thanks for the helpful tip
Matthew - April 24, 2010
There's a comment reply ratio?
I was not aware.
harkening - April 24, 2010
In that vein, something that helps me contain my exuberance is to limit the sub-threads in which I'm participating.
I’ve a theory that there’s a threshold for awareness over which the tolerance of the group starts to wear thin. There were many adjustments to LL, and one of them was to stay out of every sub-thread in a post. Limit things to two or three depending on what’s going on, the number of comments I’m making, the number of comments total, etc. This is something that requires constant vigilance as I’m kind of gabby. Of any adjustments I may have made, I’m convinced this was the important one.
Kermit. - April 24, 2010
This is an excellent suggestion
Honestly, you (the collective you, not the Kermit you) might be the funniest person in the history of mankind, but you don’t need to weigh in on every single thing, every single time. Pick your spots.
pdb - April 24, 2010
Yeah I check the same thing.
Robert - April 24, 2010
As near as I can figure there are 8 Rules of Lookout Landing Commenting
You do not talk about religion or politics.
You do not talk about religion or politics.
When originality ceases to exist or stupidity reigns, the subthread is over.
Only five recs to a green.
One comment per in-game event at a time.
No chatspeak, no large pictures.
Subthreads will go on as long as they have to.
If this is your first time at LL, you do not have to comment.
Fett42 - April 24, 2010
How does this not have 20 recs
I guess I’m kind of a Fight Club nut
appleshampoo - April 26, 2010
My Deep Apologies....
In my brief membership at Lookout Landing, I’ve apparently ruffled some feathers. Not in baseball terms (I believe most of my baseball-related posts have been cordial and appropriate), but in my comments about game threads. I deeply regret anything that may have disrespected the invaluable contributors that have been building the richness of this blog for years; since the beginning. Unfortunately I’ve had a rough getting-acquainted period in the game threads. I welcome any of you to help me out by looking at my past comments and suggesting where I went wrong.
I’ve been reading this blog ever since Bavasi got fired. That’s not long compared to many of you, but a lot longer than my profile would imply. This site has been one I cherish more than almost any other on the internet, because it has enhanced my appreciation for baseball. I love baseball more than almost anything on Earth, and I love the Mariners more than baseball (doesn’t make much sense, but I could explain).
My daily readership here began at an exciting time for Mariner’s fans, particularly those fans that appreciate the new management of Jack Zduriencik, Don Wakamatsu and all the new leaders of this franchise. If the Mariners do win a World Series this decade, I feel like what I’ve learned on Lookout Landing will make the whole experience infinitely more gratifying. And that is because of all you guys who engage in some of the best baseball talk I’ve seen on the internet. That is why this is the only blog I have ever registered for. It’s really one of the best around. I don’t want to do anything more to tarnish my reputation on here (I hope to redeem it somewhat), or even worse, get banned, which is apparently a real possibility. That would be quite devastating, considering how long I took to take in the content of this blog, relinquish almost everything I thought I knew about baseball, and replace it with knowledge gleaned from the far superior analysts that contribute to Lookout Landing.
I’m not new to baseball though. I played baseball for 10 years, my dad was an umpire and coach. I’ve been watching the Mariners for over 20 years. I went to game 4 against the Yankees in 1995, game 5 against the Indians in 2001. My dad used to take me and my brothers to “Randy Night” all the time back in the 90’s, and most home openers. I don’t miss many games on TV, and when I was a kid I used to love listening to Dave on the radio before we had cable. I know we all have so many heartwarming summer memories with the M’s game on in the background.
Even though I may keep stumbling through my learning curve, I still feel like I have something to offer to this community. I’m sure I’m not the first new member to be anxious to contribute and end up being too out front and reckless with opinions in areas where a new member’s opinion doesn’t matter or isn’t cared for. My offerings were totally out of place and highly regrettable now that I look back on them, especially in game threads, and the post on game threads.
To be clear, I genuinely want some of you to tell me which posts were disrespectful and why -if you have the time, and if you even care. I can understand why you wouldn’t. I’d really appreciate some kind of pointers from people who run the site though. More than just a window that says “Your being a smart ass, and you might get banned.” I’m not a smart ass, at least not in real life. It’s really easy to be misunderstood in type (like when some take sarcasm as seriousness). I want you all to know I respect you greatly and would defer to most of you on baseball stuff, and certainly all things related to Lookout Landing. So keep in mind when you read one of my comments, I’m not eloquent and will post some sloppy comments that don’t convey my thoughts as properly or politely as you all deserve.
Here forth I will try to stick with baseball and respect the traditions that make this site one of the best in baseball.
Go M’s!
refuse2lose2010 - April 24, 2010
It's "hard" to make the transition from a normal forum to LL
If you are willing to make said transition you’ll have a great time. If you continue to play by your own rules you’re going to be called out. Good to see you try to do the former.
Slurvey - April 24, 2010
Oh damn I just read some of the posts from last nights game.
I let my buddy on here last night and he was posting during the game, and we were drinking. I might as well just make a new SB Nation account now. Such an ignorant little prick. I was thinking this was about the “K!” thing the whole time, and maybe that’s part of it too, but god I never do any of that grammar correction, let alone being totally wrong like a douche. It’s actually a pet peeve of mine, considering how fast everyone types.
My only contribution last night was actually that picture of Reed, Putz, Lopez, and Beltre. So I’ll take any criticism beyond last night.
refuse2lose2010 - April 24, 2010
Exactly why it's nice not to jump on people immediately
When someone is a total douche, more often than not it is a mistake, misunderstanding or a failed joke.
But it’s still glad to hear that wasn’t you. That was pretty painful.
Snuffleupagus - April 24, 2010
Oh and also drunk posting is not the best of ideas
Hard to resist, I know, but still.
pdb - April 24, 2010
I couldn't find the article where Matthew recommended it, but I like using the "rec" button.
When I can’t think of anything new to say, I can at least echo what others have expressed.
csiems - April 24, 2010
This one?
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2010/1/1/1217905/helping-us-help-you
Matthew - April 24, 2010
That's the one.
Kirk - April 24, 2010 via mobile
Good call.
I have ;
8gy70n
Omerta - April 24, 2010
Fuck.
Sorry…I was holding the lap top at an odd angle, shifted and it fell forward onto my face.
What I meant to say was I spend more time reccing these days than commenting. There are so many more people commenting that what I wish to say is often encapsulated in another’s posted thoughts.
Omerta - April 24, 2010
Echoing the thanks for this post.
I’m an old reader / new poster too, and I’ve been really hesitant to post because I’m always afraid to contribute something stupid. That being said, everyone has been overall really nice. I’ve also not posted during game threads… I love LL though and look forward to future interactions!
Belom3 - April 24, 2010
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