Watching everyone mob Griffey got me thinking.
The whole nap story seems to have blown over, at last, after many words were shared. There were a lot of different opinions. Some of them, I agreed with. Some of them, I did not agree with. Some of them were just bizarre.
One of the angles I didn't agree with at the time, and that i don't agree with now, is the angle that this only became a story because Griffey had lost the respect of his teammates. That the two players told LaRue what they did because they didn't care about preserving Griffey's image or keeping the truth in the clubhouse. Griffey was a leader when he was good, but now, now that he's so clearly finished, some of his teammates were beginning to resent him and the fact that his feeble bat still finds its way into the middle of the lineup night after night.
I couldn't bring myself to buy it. I wanted to, but I couldn't, because from what I understand, it isn't true. Griffey still has the respect of his teammates. Griffey probably commands more respect than anybody else in the locker room. Even now that he's old and he's bad, he's still Ken Griffey Jr. He's Ken Griffey Jr., and his teammates are baseball players.
Baseball players don't think the way we think. I could write novels on the subject, but to keep things brief, let's just say that we think things they never think, and they think things we never think. The Venn diagram between fan opinions and player opinions has very little overlap. We care about performance and projection and statistics. They care about track record and identity and experience. You know how many Mariners still loved Jose Vidro in 2008? If you don't, you don't want to.
The point is, players see things differently. As well they should. They're actually involved. Everything looks different from the inside. We shouldn't expect them to approach things in the way that we do, because they're coming from completely different places.
There's no lack of respect for Griffey in that clubhouse. Yeah, we see a .191 batting average, zero home runs, and a fat butt. They see the work he puts in during batting practice, the leadership he provides off the field, and the #24 on his jersey, and a fat butt. We see Ken Griffey Jr.: faded superstar. They see Ken Griffey Jr.: superstar.
I mean, come on. He's Ken Griffey Jr. As iconic a baseball player as there ever was. Do you think players are more concerned with the fact that he's struggling, or with the fact that they're sharing a clubhouse with one of the greatest players in baseball history?
They don't have time to resent him. They have themselves and their own performances to worry about. And even though everyone's aware that he's in a rut, everyone's also aware that the entire lineup's in a rut. So Griffey isn't hitting. Neither is Figgins. Neither is Bradley. Neither is Kotchman. Neither are the Wilsons. Neither are the catchers. Neither is Lopez. And the bullpen has been a zoo all year long. We have a tendency to pick on players when they're not doing well, but the players themselves aren't the same way. Griffey doesn't walk into the clubhouse with a half dozen teammates pointing and yelling at him. Griffey walks into the clubhouse as one of many guys who's struggling, and also as the guy who's proven more in his career than anybody else on the team.
There's no lack of respect for Griffey in that clubhouse. Everybody loves him. Everybody loves him, because he's Ken Griffey Jr., and that means a hell of a lot more to them than it does to any of us. Yeah, okay, I'll grant that he's a bad baseball player who's cost this team a lot of runs. That much is plainly evident. He sucks. But watching everyone pour out of the dugout and surround Griffey with grins on their faces - you want to talk about disrespect? Griffey just gave this team a big lift, and I guarantee you that, to a man, every player would tell you that the right man delivered.
It's easy to bitch. It's easy to complain, and it's easy to be unhappy. This afternoon, though, for a handful of minutes, I was able to separate myself from the bitter and cynical fan identity I've developed and take pleasure watching Ken Griffey Jr. win us a game. It doesn't mean much. The team's still fucked. Griffey's still bad. But in a season like this, you have to enjoy what there is to enjoy, and there's nothing I enjoy more than seeing so many Mariners looking so damn happy.
8 recs | 63 comments
Fat butt? He's in the best shape of his life!?!?!?
the other side - May 20, 2010
Which is why it is just a FAT butt.
msb - May 20, 2010
Round is a shape.
Chris Hafner - May 20, 2010 via mobile
Thank god for this post.
Pete_ - May 20, 2010
Wholeheartedly agreed.
For me, baseball is all about these special moments. Granted, winning leads to special moments more often, and any other player delivering in the same situation would have gotten mobbed, but it wouldn’t have been so special. Even after all I’ve said about Griffey being useless and needing to go, watching him save the day like that, seeing the warmth and appreciation for him makes me glad he’s a Mariner. And a post like this puts that feeling to words in such a way that gives me a deeper appreciation for both that feeling and Griffey’s place on this team and in our hearts. Thank you so much for writing this.
Jon S. - May 20, 2010 via mobile
I agree that the nap story wasn't a sign that the players were turning on Griffey.
Both because of the reasons you state – baseball players on the same team as Griffey who grew up idolizing him are going to see him differently than we do – but also because of what they said and the way they said it.
The first player was just answering the question – and while this is me projecting, it’s not difficult to imagine him chuckling and thinking, “that’s Griffey!” The second player was actively defending Griffey. LaRue, who was there talking to the players, even explicitly said that the players are fond of Griffey, don’t have an axe to grind, and that one of them was trying to rationalize the behavior. I don’t see anything there that makes me think Griffey has lost the respect of the clubhouse.
This is part of what drove me so nuts about Sweeney staging a witch hunt for the players who “ratted out” Griffey – it seems to me the worst crime those two players committed was the crime of naivete in thinking that a reporter wouldn’t report that fact and that the world at large wouldn’t seize on it and blow it out of proportion. I’m sure those two guys are especially relieved to see the story blow over and for Griffey to have a good moment.
Chris Hafner - May 20, 2010
Yah, that was how I'd first read it... kindly old Larry, asking them questions.
At the most, player B was covering a bit for naive player A.
msb - May 20, 2010
Pretty sure Scott Spiezio was trying to make Griffey look bad with that comment.
Janic - May 20, 2010
I thought about the whole player A thing too late :)
msb - May 20, 2010
I think this might be your best game writeup of the season.
Edgar for Pres - May 20, 2010
I find myself thinking that after pretty much every single game writeup...Great job
Except when there rarely isn’t a writeup, then I have no idea what is going on in the world of the Mariners since I’m rarely able to watch a full game live
fortyniners - May 20, 2010
I would also argue that while it's tempting to cynically view this as just a guarantee that Griffey will hang on even longer and get too much playing time ...
… I would argue that it’s possible to both be really pleased that the game ended the way it did, and to separately be angry if Griffey is batting fifth tomorrow. If management seizes on this moment to make erroneous conclusions about Griffey’s skill level or capacity to help the team, that’s a mistake that we should keep separate from Griffey’s positive contribution this afternoon.
Chris Hafner - May 20, 2010
They can still share the same clubhouse with him if he goes on the DL
Permanently
Baconburger - May 20, 2010
While I in the main agree with you, I'd lay good money on at least a few players being tired of him.
In the main, I imagine they’re starstruck, think he’s a nice guy, etc.
But there have to be at least a few of them who have been watching and playing baseball their whole lives, realize someone with no one left in the tank when they see it, and wish that there were a better player taking those at-bats and helping them win games. These guys didn’t make it to the major leagues without being really competitive.
I’m sure at least one of those hypothetical players is even in the picture that goes along with this post; they’re still human beings after all and they can be happy for him when he manages to be the hero.
Jeff Nye - May 20, 2010
I really just don't think you're right
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2010
Yeah, I think we talked about this briefly before in another thread.
I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure, in any case.
Jeff Nye - May 20, 2010
In any case, even if you don't agree with me
I hope you can agree that my theory is at least possible; it’s not like I’m coming up with something way out of left field.
At least I don’t think I am.
Jeff Nye - May 20, 2010
I agree.
These guys are all more competitive than we will probably ever know. Losing must be the hardest thing ever for them, and since Griffey hasn’t exactly helped them win on a regular basis…
Whatev. Your theory is definitely sound. It’s just that any resentment towards Griffey that I try to manufacture today fades very quickly. I like that.
Jon S. - May 20, 2010 via mobile
That's fine, and a large part of me wishes I wasn't too cynical to join you.
Basically it boils down to which of these two things you think is stronger in the mind of Player X:
-The force of Griffey’s personality/star power and the camaraderie a baseball team develops;
-The desire to have the best possible chance to win, every day.
But today, I’m pleased to see people being happy for Griffey even if I can’t bring myself to be.
Jeff Nye - May 20, 2010
I don't think that, right now, there's a single person in the clubhouse who feels that Junior is done
Everyone in there just thinks he’s waiting to break out, and you don’t break out by not playing.
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2010
Agree to disagree, I guess.
I know that baseball players generally aren’t the smartest guys in the world, but you’re asking me to believe that none of them are aware of the fact that athletes tend to decline as they get older and injuries accumulate.
Which, well, isn’t exactly advanced analysis and something that at least a couple guys in that clubhouse should be capable of.
Jeff Nye - May 20, 2010
That's not really what I'm saying
I’m saying that, to the players, Junior isn’t close to being the biggest problem. He’s just one of a number of guys they’re waiting on to bust out.
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2010
This is speculation
But if they all do bust out eventually and he never does, what does your gut tell you will happen?
It’s hard to gain respect for a person and watch him struggle mightily like that, but it seems like they’ll have his back all season, regardless of how he plays. If anything it seems like his problems will become a unification thing for the team. I can’t see them playing the blame game when he’s so integral to their clubhouse community.
MT Olson - May 20, 2010
My only issue with your position is the 100% nature of it.
I guarantee you at least one player thinks Junior is done.
Sec 108 - May 21, 2010
Even if that's true (and, okay, perhaps I went too far towards absolutes)
I doubt that means that the player, in turn, doesn’t still have a lot of respect for Griffey. There’s a pretty significant gap between the first statement and the second one.
Jeff Sullivan - May 21, 2010
Agreed.
I see two types of respect though. One can respect the accomplishments of the player while not respecting the man.
Sec 108 - May 21, 2010
"I’m sure at least one of those hypothetical players is even in the picture that goes along with this post"
Is it Griffey?
ralphie81 - May 20, 2010
MLB.com 30 second clip
game winning hit
http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/2010/05/20/images/mlbf_8187889_th_7.jpg
fortyniners - May 20, 2010
That's a picture.
Wilder. - May 20, 2010
This may be a griffey is slow joke.
the other side - May 20, 2010
If it is,
it is spectacular.
Attractive Nuisance - May 20, 2010
Fuck, when I saw on TV that they were playing I thought it was a replay of last night's game.
Looks like I missed a great one.
svart aske - May 20, 2010
Only for 1/2 an inning.
SethGrandpa - May 20, 2010
Today's repeat is on FSN-- 8th inning
msb - May 20, 2010
Yeah, I'm watching it now.
svart aske - May 20, 2010
For you viewing pleasure.
The Wak Ejection
Mariner Melee - May 20, 2010
You're
wow.
Mariner Melee - May 20, 2010
Not my day.
your*… I’m done typing today.
Mariner Melee - May 20, 2010
The MLB.com people aren't having a good day either.
They spelled Wakamatsu wrong. Twice.
JY - May 20, 2010
While I agree with everything that was said, who doesn't get this kind of response to a game winning hit?
Janic - May 20, 2010
Teams that are winning regularly and expect their star players to hit walk offs.
harkening - May 20, 2010
Today seemed a little more enthusiastic than usual
but that was really just more of a jumping-off point than anything else.
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2010
Watching the walk off hit again just now on TV, it looked like Milton Bradley caught up to Griffey and jokingly rubbed sleep from his eyes.
CapSea - May 20, 2010
He did
Edgar for Pres - May 20, 2010
I know it gets said a lot but Milton is great
Gihyou - May 20, 2010
And in the post-game, Josh WIlson calls him Junebug and references him getting his knee drained, but going out and getting that hit
msb - May 20, 2010
I smash june bugs with newspapers
Jeff Sullivan - May 20, 2010
That's one big newspaper.
harkening - May 20, 2010
I'm calling bullshit. I doubt Jeff buys newspapers.
Edgar for Pres - May 20, 2010
Jeff's actual weapon of choice.
JAH - May 20, 2010
If Griffey had hit and only hit in these situations then I wouldn't be as resentful of him as I am.
mark sobba - May 20, 2010
On the video of Wak getting tossed
it looks like he says “bullshit” right before…. Or maybe it’s just me hoping Mr. Straightface is capable of that.
JoshF - May 20, 2010
He says it many times
DrunkAmerican - May 20, 2010
He says, "That's bullshit"
Then when that doesn’t work, he resorts to repeating, “That’s fucking bullshit!” three or four times.
Matt Erickson - May 20, 2010
Excellent!
JoshF - May 20, 2010
Great post.
I think in Venn diagrams so this post resonated with me.
ryanhealy - May 20, 2010 via mobile
I became a Mariners fan in September of 2008
Compared almost all of the people on this site, I am a new fan. I was so new in fact, that when the December player season in reviews came, I didn’t know any of the names; I thought the Raul Ibanez one was funny but I didn’t understand it. I became a fan because y’all seemed to take the race to 100 loses in stride and even made it kind of fun, something that would make most fans cynical and pessimistic about the next year.
Point is, I don’t know what 1995, 2001, or 2004 felt like. I don’t hate Alex Rodriguez, and have only a passing disgust of Bavasi. Most importantly, I had a neutral opinion of Griffey. Jeff, because of this post, you made me realize that Griffey is as important to the Mariners as cake is to fat kids and for that I thank you. Thank you for making me realize that Griffey IS Mariner history. He does deserve our respect. Also, he has a fat butt.
bamfor - May 20, 2010
It's all that cake.
msb - May 20, 2010
I love it when you drop f-bombs on the front page.
It’s also nice to actually want to watch the condensed game for a change. I just wish I actually cared enough about Griffey to get overly-excited about him hitting a walk off hit.
I got more pleasure out of Bradley scoring the winning run and seeing Ichiro and Sweeney celebrating with him.
EnglishMariner - May 21, 2010
I love this article. Thank you, Jeff!
Sam Regens - May 21, 2010
I loved how you pointed out (very correctly!) that many players are also struggling with bad performances.
It’s hard to imagine that they resent Griffey, especially since he’s taking much of the blame for the Mariner’s bad record and taking flack from the media and many of the blogs (as well illustrated by some of the comments here also).
It does seem that on the present team there would be few or actually no bad apples who would snipe at other players when they are playing poorly themselves. That’s why I like this team even though many guys are still underperforming (but who may be coming around happily).
Sam Regens - May 21, 2010
(Sorry for the multiple postings) And I love the picture you found above, Happy Ichiro just warms my heart!
(And the bat in the picture is somehow great too.)
Sam Regens - May 21, 2010
Currently re-reading Ball Four by Jim Bouton. Such a great book, just a string of anecdotes
For insights into a clubhouse by a player, I can’t think of anything better. The opening chapters describing Spring Training and players making the team is terrific, really funny stuff. A bit introspective and melancholy at times as well.
Loosely tied to the M’s as well, he worked out with the Pilots, John Olerud, Sr. is mentioned, he makes Lou sound like a hypersensitive whiny bitch.
Kermit. - May 21, 2010
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