Ken Rosenthal updating the Cliff Lee situation:
The scouting presence at Cliff Lee’s start at Yankee Stadium was not as extensive as one might think.
The Mets, Yankees, Rangers and Phillies were the only teams represented. The Twins, Dodgers and several other teams with interest in Lee did not attend.
The relatively low turnout was somewhat surprising, but it is still early in the trading season, with the non-waiver deadline is a month away.
I'm only posting this because I wonder why advance scouts exist anymore. Or at least, why they exist for purposes of scouting players like Cliff Lee. Cliff Lee is a 31 year old Major League veteran who's been nothing short of spectacular over his last 600 innings. He dominated in Cleveland. He dominated in Philadelphia. He dominated in the playoffs. He's dominated in Seattle. Cliff Lee is not some nebulous, unknown entity. Cliff Lee is very much known.
So why advance scout him at all? You're just spending money you don't have to spend. Everybody knows Lee's pitches. Everybody knows his strengths and weaknesses. Everybody knows about his delivery. The scout's gun will be less accurate than the PITCHfx data. And if Lee gets hurt or something, it'll become news pretty fast, whether you have a scout in attendance or not. That's not one of those things Lee and the Mariners could keep to themselves.
I don't get it. I don't get why teams are always advance scouting some veterans they might trade for. And I certainly don't get why they couldn't just save money and watch those players on TV. On TV, you can advance scout several players at once!
It's one thing to advance scout, I dunno, some guy like Sam LeCure that you haven't ever seen before. But a player like Cliff Lee before a trade? Seems awful pointless.
1 recs | 40 comments
Aren't the Mariners one of the teams to have dumped advance scouts in favor of in-house data analysts?
I think Baker or Divish mentioned something along those lines prior to the 2009 season.
BrianL - June 30, 2010
I don't know if they've completely dumped them
but they do scout upcoming opponents in-house using crazy analytics.
Jeff Sullivan - June 30, 2010
Here's the link I was looking for
Link
BrianL - June 30, 2010
Half the teams in MLB have dumped advance scouting...
‘According to Bruce Benedict, the former Braves catcher and current advance scout for the Cardinals, just 15 or 16 of the 30 major league teams have advance scouts. Those who don’t have advance men use video and computer systems and track tendencies through statistics.’
msb - June 30, 2010
Just reading what Rosenthal wrote, I was going to comment about "Why do they need scouts at a Cliff Lee game anyways"
But you summed it up much more perfectly then I would have anyway.
You’re going to get a better look at Cliff Lee on that 55" LED if you really need to.
This is Rosenthal making an excuse to write an article about Cliff Lee because Cliff Lee articles are hot right now.
Kenneth Arthur - June 30, 2010
Why bother sending scouts anyway when we are going to sign him to a 10 year below market contract starting tomorrow.
CapSea - June 30, 2010
I think you are correct
Poochie - June 30, 2010 via mobile
I'll say! I have tickets to the upcoming Yankee series and it cost $42 for on outfield seat!y
TV is indeed much cheaper!
Poochie - June 30, 2010 via mobile
And the Juggs guns don't work too well from out there either.
sigalert - June 30, 2010
Baker speculated that the Phillies scout wasn't there to watch Lee, anyway
msb - June 30, 2010
Baker speculated that if he wrote an article with a "different angle" people would care.
Kenneth Arthur - June 30, 2010
It's a living.
msb - June 30, 2010
I'll stay on topic then and say that scouts go to games and we have no idea what the specific reason they are there for.
You can guess they probably aren’t there to scout Derek Jeter, but there are a lot of players out there – we can’t be sure which ones they want to see. Probably a number of them.
Kenneth Arthur - June 30, 2010
Let's not have another one of these subthreads
Thank you
Jeff Sullivan - June 30, 2010
The Phils are now playing a sickening combo of Wilson Valdez and Greg Dobbs, so yeah I could see them pursuing other priorities.
abender20 - June 30, 2010
The Phils should definitely be looking at Jose Lopez.
I’m just not sure what last nights game would change for them after 3,000 at bats from a very consistent player. I suppose there is the defensive aspect however, which can’t be overlooked.
Kenneth Arthur - June 30, 2010
It would make very little sense if they needed to rescout Lee.
They kind of did that once, then watched him for a couple months.
Fuckmikereilly - June 30, 2010
For what it is worth, Churchill adds the Yankees to the list
Link
csiems - June 30, 2010
I'd love to know....
if any of the scouts went back to their team and said “I’m just not sure that he’s a good fit. It looks like smoke and mirrors to me.”
With pitch f/x data, I am sure every team in baseball knows how often Cliff Lee throws a curveball in 1-1 counts against right handers in away games. It’s totally ridiculous.
Any GM in baseball can call up his video guy and say “Hey Bobby, get me a DVD of Cliff Lee’s last 5 starts.” and an hour later it would be in his hand.
It would take him all of about 30 minutes to watch them because Cliff Lee is fucking awesome.
PLU Tim - June 30, 2010
Are we sure that's not a picture of Cliff
identifying the various Yankee Wives he is going to gleefully bone after the game?
TheBishop - June 30, 2010
Really? That's what you decided to go with?
pdb - June 30, 2010
This is a bad comment
Jeff Sullivan - June 30, 2010
Totally agree.
And as always when I do this I apologize.
TheBishop - June 30, 2010
The Royals really value the information their advance scouts give them
Freneau - June 30, 2010
.
CapSea - June 30, 2010
Good thing Yuni has another skill he can add to his resume in addition to banana peeling.
kentroyals5 - June 30, 2010
it was the blurst of times?
pdb - June 30, 2010
Rob Johnson: "Woah people from other teams actually watch you!?!"
MFAN - June 30, 2010
They watch Rob, too
It’s just more for comedic value.
Brian Floyd - June 30, 2010
Smell and electricity
You can’t smell cluctchiness nor feel the electric presence of a winner on TV.
BrianF - June 30, 2010
Cliff Lee sort of resembles you Jeff.
Kirk - June 30, 2010 via mobile
Cliff Lee After School Special
…starring Ralph Fiennes and extolling the virtues of hard work and dedication. Co-starring Jeff Sullivan as a young Cliff Lee.
William JD - June 30, 2010
That's what Ms. Jeff says!
Jeff Sullivan - June 30, 2010
In fact, a typical Sullivan conversation after a night of nuptual bliss goes something like this:
Mrs. Jeff: “I fantasized you were Cliff Lee again.”
Mr. Jeff: “I fantasized you were Cliff Lee again, too.”
The Typical Idiot Fan - June 30, 2010
I would kiss Cliff Lee on the mouth
Jeff Sullivan - June 30, 2010
Who does Jeff not look like?
Poochie - June 30, 2010
Michael Jackson.
M'sFanatic - June 30, 2010
Michael Jackson before or after 1996?
Kermit. - June 30, 2010
Both.
M'sFanatic - June 30, 2010
Bill
abender20 - July 1, 2010
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