So a kid reached down and interfered with Russell Branyan's potentially game-tying eighth inning double. I personally don't think Ichiro was going to score on the play, as it didn't look like he was even halfway to third when the ball was picked up, but by interfering, the kid denied any possibility of that taking place. It was, as you can imagine, an unpopular act, and as the kid was escorted out of the stadium, he was roundly booed while the security staff received a simultaneous ovation.
But let's think about this incident for a moment. Let's consider what could've happened, and what actually did.
1) Kid doesn't interfere
If the kid doesn't reach down, or if he misses, Russell Branyan gets the same double, but Ichiro might score on a bang-bang play. Or David DeJesus might screw up and Ichiro might score easily. Or Ichiro might stay at third to bring Jose Lopez to the plate. Ultimately, the Mariners either win or they don't win, and it ends up being a forgettable mid-week win or loss against the Royals in the middle of a wasted season.
2) Kid does interfere
As we saw, the kid picked up a live ball, forcing Ichiro to hold at third base. Lopez then grounded out on a 1-0 fastball off the plate, stranding the tying run at third and the go-ahead run at second. The Mariners lost.
Given a choice, any fan in his right mind would prefer option #1. Nobody likes when non-players, be they fans or umpires or anyone, end up a factor in the result. This latter path, though - the one the evening followed - allows us to wonder. It allows for enduring uncertainty. What if the fan hadn't reached out and picked the ball up? What if he had just let it be like a proper spectator and allowed the play to unfold? Then what? Would Ichiro have scored? Would Ichiro have been thrown out? Would the Mariners have won? Would the Mariners have lost?
The answers to these questions aren't important. Any game will, in the end, wind up a win or a loss. What's important is that there are questions to be asked. It takes on a gravity greater than the actual game. It becomes something to argue about. It becomes something to talk about at work. It becomes something you remember for far longer than a game like yesterday's. Remember when that kid picked up that ball and the Mariners lost? It becomes a story, and a source of frustration, and a badge of futility, and everything in between. There were people who were making their first and only trip out to Safeco to see tonight's game. They'll never know. They'll take this one to winter.
That kid picked up a live ball. It was dumb, but I can't really blame him too much, as he probably wasn't paying real close attention, and the urge to grab a souvenir can be overpowering. A lot of people would've done what he did, and he clearly wasn't aware of his mistake until a few seconds had passed. But by grabbing the ball, that kid gave us something more memorable than a baseball game. He gave us two potential baseball games. He gave us controversy. He gave us a scapegoat. And he gave a certain significance to a game that would've otherwise been forgotten in a week, if not in a day.
Any fan in his right mind would prefer option #1. But option #2 - it's not without its merits. If sports are a pastime, if sports are a distraction from the many things in life that really and truly matter, then that fan might've unwittingly done us all a favor. Because people are distracted. And some of them are going to stay that way for a good long time.
-----
Really not much at all to discuss, so let's just be quick about it:
- At seven innings, this was tied for Ryan Rowland-Smith's longest outing of the season, and it was a better effort than his game in the home opener against Oakland. Let's do this the easy way:
Pluses
Most importantly, of RRS' 101 pitches, 70 were strikes. That gives him 66% strikes over his last three starts, versus 63% strikes previous. We want an RRS that throws strikes. Throwing strikes is critical, especially when you don't have overpowering stuff. Additionally, with 12 grounders on 27 balls in play, RRS' groundball rate over those same three starts is an eye-popping 50%, versus 32% previous. For three starts, now - against good lineups - RRS has kept the ball in the zone and he's kept it on the ground better than the RRS we're accustomed to seeing.
Minuses
Unfortunately, over those same three starts, he's struck out six of 79 batters faced, while walking seven and drilling two. I don't think those walks are sustainable as long as he's throwing this many strikes, but there does have to be some concern that, in going for more grounders and staying lower, RRS is sacrificing some of the strikeouts of which he never had a surplus. Strikes are good, and grounders are good, but the way he's been pitching lately is similar to the way that Nick Blackburn's been pitching, and Nick Blackburn's gotten blasted. It's something to watch as we wonder if RRS' stuff will miss bats lower in the zone.
The bottom line is that it's progress. RRS isn't where he needs to be yet, but he's in a better place than he was, both psychologically and in the stat line, so we'll see if it continues along this course. Though he's not a guy who's ever going to make or break a season, he's a likable guy we all want to see succeed, and that becomes a compelling storyline in a season like this. It's less about the triumph of a team, and more about watching a guy bottom out and rooting for him to work his way back in front of a generally supportive but critical audience. Human interest!
- Michael Saunders has now drawn a walk in four consecutive games, and though one could argue that Zack Greinke should've had him punched out today, it's something. It's also something to hear how much Dave Niehaus seems to love him. He can't pass up a single opportunity to point out how strongly he believes Saunders will develop into a great young player. I don't know if Dave is an adequate evaluator of talent, and given his pitch and fly ball recognition I have my doubts, but there's something about his age and experience that makes me want to believe everything he says.
- Jay Buhner was in the booth when one of the other guys - I think it was Rizzs - asked his opinion of Saunders. You could tell that Buhner was unprepared for the question, because the answer he provided was less an evaluation of Saunders' various skills, and more like an assortment of the first random facts relevant to Saunders that came to his mind. Rangey. Okay, that's good. That's an ability. Can swing it. Means nothing. Anyone can swing it. Tall, lanky kid. This is just a physical description. With Bradley out, he should get some playing time. This is a confirmation that Milton Bradley is kind of hurt, and therefore in no way blocks anyone else.
There was more, but I stopped listening. White noise doesn't have to be constant.
- Said Bill Krueger after the game, of the fan who interfered with Branyan's double:
He's obviously not a baseball fan. He probably likes soccer.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be offended, because I'm not, but that's a childish remark. Which would be one thing if Krueger were anything like Buhner, who clearly doesn't take himself too seriously, but Krueger seems to take himself more seriously than the president of a doorknob-making company takes doorknobs. And that's when such a remark becomes offputting.
I don't know Bill Krueger personally, so I don't want to say anything too mean about him, but I really have to wonder to which audience he appeals. For an alleged baseball analyst, he definitely doesn't appeal to analysts. He's kind of abrasive and aggressive, so he doesn't have the adorable Brad Adam thing going for him. The women I've heard don't seem to find him particularly attractive. I guess the way he sounds so confident whenever he says anything can convince the casual male baseball fan that he knows what he's talking about, but is that a good thing when he so frequently spreads misinformation? A good broadcast should serve to entertain and inform. At least from where I sit, Krueger does neither. Ex-players can provide valuable insight, but what insight Krueger provides is buried by the layers of cliche dependence, incorrect assertions, and bluster. I wonder what he adds that couldn't be added by someone at least a little more likable.
In reviewing his Keys To The Game, Krueger gave the Mariners a check for Clutch Hitting.
.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
It won't play
Poochie - July 7, 2010
David DeJesus
Thanked the fan after picking up the ball, then laughed at him after the fan had realized what he had done and dropped it.
There is something about a team that basically admits that a fan bailed them out that strikes me as amusing.
ThundaPC - July 7, 2010 via mobile
David DeJesus looks like a douchebag 100% of the time.
Hopefulmsfan - July 7, 2010
The Royals apparently all said after the game that they thought Ichiro would have scored
and were duly grateful
msb - July 7, 2010
Royals' players are complete tools.
kentroyals5 - July 7, 2010
And they're pretty damn ugly, too
David DeJesus and Jason Kendall…ugh
pdb - July 7, 2010
Jason Kendall looks like he should be selling cheap used electronics out of the trunk of his car
DrunkAmerican - July 7, 2010
Billy Butler is quite ugly
jackyz - July 7, 2010 via mobile
Even though I hate Bill Kreuger, and I think it was an idiotic thing for him to say,
And I basically agree with everything you say, and I actually kinda like soccer….
I still found that comment hilarious for some reason. I don’t know why.
scottg02 - July 7, 2010
This isn't even close to the first time that Krueger has said something of that ilk.
Whether it be putting down soccer, making weird political remarks (no, really), or other things, it is not surprising to hear that he introduced and then insulted some completely unrelated position. He strikes me as someone who just can’t help going off script and introducing his own beliefs into his commentary on baseball. I’ve never met him, but I have zero doubt in my mind that I would dislike Bill Krueger immensely.
Matthew - July 7, 2010
I don't know who Bill Krueger is
But can say with confidence that he should go fuck himself.
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
I'm to the point now where I find him really amusing in an ironic sort of way.
He’s living in his own little world and is completely clueless. It’s sad I guess, but entertaining nonetheless.
BigR - July 7, 2010
As a Cubs fan...
Try having this happen during a game that actually does matter. It’s pretty sickening.
There is another option though… fan touches the ball. team still wins. afterward you can talk about, ’remember that time an idiot fan touched a ball, but the team still won anyway." Those times are pretty special.
jameslcrockett - July 7, 2010
The Bartman incident is completely different.
This was a live ball in the field of play. Bartman had every right to catch that foul ball in the stands. Orioles fans have a bigger beef with Jeffery Maier than Cubs fans with Steve Bartman.
But yeah, the importance of the game plays a major factor. Cubs fans will always say “what if” while Mariners fans will forget about this game in a week.
Wilder. - July 7, 2010
Don't encourage him
pdb - July 7, 2010
well...
that’s all good and fine… and the reason why Bartman wasn’t removed from the field for reasons other than his own protection (as pathetic as that is). It’s another case of just because you have the right to do it, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have the brains to stay the hell away from a ball that could turn into an out in the most important of situations.
jameslcrockett - July 7, 2010
This is not a Cubs blog so there's no real need to keep discussing this, is there?
pdb - July 7, 2010
is there any need...
for you to comment if you have nothing important to add? Kinda the definition of trolling.
That was only half of my comment, and it had very little to do with the Cubs. Not my fault if that’s what you and other subsequent commenters decided to focus on. At least they had something interesting to say.
jameslcrockett - July 7, 2010
You tend to bring a lot of conversations around to the Cubs though
I get that, they’re your team, but that’s what BCB is for; I see the parallels between what happened last night and the Bartman thing, but I was trying to avert this thread turning into a discussion of Steve Bartman and the Cubs, because this is a Mariner blog and this thread was about last night’s game. Sorry if you take offense to that.
pdb - July 7, 2010
I don't see the problem with what he's saying.
What are sports blogs for?
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
Discussion specific to that sports blog?
BrianL - July 7, 2010
Why is it specific to that sports blog?
He only had two comments about Bartman. Even if you want to nitpick and say that it’s a poor analogy of Bartman to the kid last night, all he’s saying is that fan interference is unfortunate and frustrating. Is that so wrong?
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
It's part of a larger and prevalent pattern
which is why a mod involved himself. If you have further questions, please direct them to e-mail.
Matthew - July 7, 2010
It's off topic, for one
This is a thread about last night’s game, not about a game not involving the Mariners that happened four years ago. A passing reference would probably have been fine but it was threatening to head into a full on discussion of Bartman and the Cubs, which really doesn’t need to be in this thread about the Mariners game.
pdb - July 7, 2010
I didn't really see it heading into a full discussion, at least I didn't see his intention lying there, but alright.
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
See Matthew's point above
For instance, had you or BrianL said something about Bartman, I never would have said anything, as you don’t really talk about the Cubs very often. Jameslcrockett has a habit of turning everything into a discussion about the Cubs, and I was trying to nip that in the bud before others joined in.
pdb - July 7, 2010
I had never seen him before as I don't frequent this site, but I see where you were coming from now.
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
Yes, there is a need for pdb to comment that.
This is not a Cubs blog.
Matthew - July 7, 2010
I can see how that would sting but...
what Wilder said – it was out of play. Also, all that happened was Alou didn’t get to a foul pop up. It wasn’t a run scoring play, and the meltdown that followed was simply epic. You could argue that the team’s nerves were rattled by the missed catch, but I doubt that Park Prior, Alex Gonzalez, and Kyle Farnsworth all have such fragile psyches.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
This is not encouragement
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
yeah...
I can tell you that not only DO Mark Prior and Kyle Farnsworth have unstable psyches (as well as physical attributes), but they were led by a moron, which was the bigger problem than anything a fan did.
jameslcrockett - July 7, 2010
I wonder if it is the authoritative air
He certainly seems to have hypnotized both the suits at FSN and the guys behind the mikes at KJR— ‘crafty lefty’, indeed
msb - July 7, 2010
I think it's the skeletor gaze and the creepy hair
pdb - July 7, 2010
He's also very tall.
He looms.
msb - July 7, 2010
Now I'm picturing him stalking over the foggy English moors at night
his very prominent teeth glowing with phosphorus.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
IT...WAS...THE....SALMON.......MOUSSE
pdb - July 7, 2010
You do realize the first part of this write up is also an argument against using technology
to help with balls and strikes don’t you? Not that I think that is a bad thing, because understanding the opposing point of view is incredibly important when arguing a position. Just struck me that way.
Sec 108 - July 7, 2010
Totally
It’s funny the way philosophizing can make you open to anything. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have made this argument were the Mariners in a competitive position. You could argue that fan interference would make this game even more memorable and significant if the M’s were 49-34 instead, but in that circumstance I’d still much rather have the fan-free outcome.
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
I prefer the fan-free outcome also and I totally agree with your first sentence.
It kind of plays into what was a huge eye opener for me a few years ago when the concept of being right is not always correct was explained to me. The reason being that even when something can at times be proven to be correct it may not be the right choice because of the pain it can cause. The pain caused may not always be appropriate. Not sure if I am even making sense, but I revel swimming in the gray areas of life.
Sec 108 - July 7, 2010
I agree with you!
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
'What noise doesn't have to be constant.'
This notion could keep me up at night. I can think of any number of noises that don’t have to be constant. But this seems like some sort of conundrum inside a riddle, one whose significance I should know or that I should contemplate.
On the other hand, if you meant white noise, well yeah, there’s a modulation knob on the wave machine.
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
Dammit Teej
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
It's almost as if you don't obsess over every word
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
Though your conflating "what" with "white" is an encouraging sign
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
Sorry, boss.
I’ve been slacking. I’ll resume my normal pestering once the World Cup is over.
Teej - July 7, 2010
And the fan interference would not have mattered
if Ichiro had been running when Wilson stole third.
look4wrd - July 7, 2010
Because then there would have been different pitches to Branyan and there would have been no possible fan interference?
Graham MacAree - July 7, 2010
That's not how baseball works
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Scratch that
that is how baseball works.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Heck, Branyan probably doesn't see a ball in the zone if Ichiro steals.
kentroyals5 - July 7, 2010
What bother me about this and similar situations
is that there’s no rule that says Ichiro has to stop at third when the fan interferes. Fan interference and ground rule doubles are not the same thing, umpires just call them the same because they’re lazy. The umpires are supposed to determine what would have happened without the interference, then move the runners accordingly. If, as the Royals’ players claim, Ichiro was going to score, the umpire should have sent him home.
Rollo Tomasi - July 7, 2010
The Royals' players were wrong. And the umpires did discuss it, with Wak, at least.
kentroyals5 - July 7, 2010
You can't assume he'll make it home even if he is Ichiro.
He was a few steps around second when the ball was interfered with and DeJesus wasn’t that far off the ball.
abender20 - July 7, 2010
Looked like a potential inside-the-park home run, if you ask me.
Wilder. - July 7, 2010
A former friend of mine works for FSN as a camera man.
Make no mistake, Bill Krueger is the biggest motherfucking, cocky asshole on the planet.
The guy is a self indulgent prick, plain and simple.
*Also on a unrelated note, Dave Sims says some pretty hilarious things on commercial breaks.
Mariner Melee - July 7, 2010
I really miss when mlbtv used to leave the feed up during the breaks
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
That was one of my favorite parts of mlbtv
Edgar for Pres - July 7, 2010
That kid is as good as dead when he gets back to school
jackyz - July 7, 2010 via mobile
That would imply people actually watch the Mariners
Aaron Campeau - July 7, 2010
And that the kid goes to summer school
or that his friends have long memories.
pdb - July 7, 2010
I bet you five billion dollars you are incorrect
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
can I borrow four billion dollars?
pdb - July 7, 2010
Yeah how could he fuck us over in such a crucial game as that
OlSalty - July 7, 2010
We're pretty much all as good as dead
when you really think about it. You know?
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Option 2 was entertaining because it allowed those in the bleachers to chant "Doooooouuuuche"
Nick S - July 7, 2010
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