This post is blatantly engineered to drive traffic. The Mariners might trade Cliff Lee! Ken Rosenthal reports on what's happening!
Executives from two different clubs interested in Cliff Lee say that the Mariners are seeking a mammoth return for the ace left-hander following a report of a substantial offer from the Twins.
One of the execs, labeling the Mariners’ request a "crazy ask," said the M’s proposal was in excess of the Twins’ offer, as reported by AOL Fanhouse – Triple A catcher Wilson Ramos and Single A outfielder Aaron Hicks.
Of course, this handsome devil says the M's and Twins have yet to exchange names, so who knows what's really going on? It's rumor season. Rumor season brings out the best in writer efficiency, and the worst in writer accuracy. Especially pertaining to this particular front office.
...actually, on second thought, I bet I know exactly what's been happening. Of course!
If the Mariners are indeed making "crazy asks" as the executive says, that will raise some eyebrows, but it shouldn't come as a surprise, nor is it indicative of a poor, unproductive strategy. This is not how you negotiate:
Customer: I will pay you five dollars for this hat.
Vendor: You will pay me five dollars for this hat.
This is how you negotiate:
Customer: I will pay you one dollar for this hat.
Vendor: You will pay me seventy-three dollars for this hat.
Customer: I will pay you two dollars for this hat.
Vendor: You will pay me twenty dollars for this hat, and you will give me another hat.
Customer: I will pay you five dollars for this hat.
Vendor: You will pay me five dollars for this hat.
When someone comes to the M's with an offer for Lee, the natural response is to counter the offer with something more, because no one ever makes his best offer first, and these things are all about squeezing as much as you can out of another team before pulling the trigger. So what if that means negotiations drag out? With 17 teams within five games of a playoff spot, Cliff Lee wasn't going to get moved after ten minutes of chatter. There are going to be a lot of calls. There are going to be a lot of emails. There are going to be a lot of text messages awkwardly sent to the wrong guy named Jack.
The Zduriencik front office initially lowballed Felix Hernandez with contract extension terms. They placed a high price tag on Jarrod Washburn. They wound up getting good deals on both. Whatever's going on behind the scenes, and whoever's the most likely Lee destination, I think we can trust that in this instance, Z and company know what they're doing.
2 recs | 129 comments
Crazy talk! Crazy talk!
more! more!
msb - July 7, 2010
I will pay you five dollars for this Cliff Lee.
ermac - July 7, 2010
Sounds like a shitty hat.
wilsonpdx - July 7, 2010
Used
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
$5
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
That's for Bill Krueger.
sanford_and_son - July 7, 2010
Brad Adams' hair has competition!
Matt Erickson - July 7, 2010
If trade negotiations were anything like hagglign at a bazaar in the Maghreb
I should go work in a FO. I’ve had some startling success.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
We're going to get a wonderful deal from Cliff Lee.
This is amazing.
SeaKoala - July 7, 2010
If you like hats
pdb - July 7, 2010
Dave Sims is going to love this trade.
kentroyals5 - July 7, 2010
When Cliff Lee shows up at his new team
The first question they will ask about him is not going to be “does he have his own hat?”
pdb - July 7, 2010
Does the news of Peavy going down for the year change the nature of this thing?
I mean, isn’t bringing Kenny Williams into the mix sort of like inviting a billionaire oil tycoon from Texas to an art auction?
Jeff Nusser - July 7, 2010
The White Sox don't strike me as having a lot to trade
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
They have a catcher...
in Tyler Flowers. Dayan Viciendo? Would take more obv.
jameslcrockett - July 7, 2010
They could throw in that shitty Gordon Beckham
But yeah, I’m not seeing a fit unless somehow we pull a 3-way deal?
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
I guess what I'm getting at
Is that having an amazingly aggressive GM in the mix could potentially drive up the price more than adding another GM. He’s got no problem bidding high for a rental who he thinks can put his team over the top.
Jeff Nusser - July 7, 2010
Or maybe he'll trade us Nick Swisher for Josh Wilson.
JonBBT - July 7, 2010
FYI the art world is now dominated by Russian vodka barons
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
My bad.
Jeff Nusser - July 7, 2010
Z should auction Cliff on eBay
Allen Wu - July 7, 2010
He's no Stephen Strasburg rookie card
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
Oh goodness me! What could this "crazy ask" be?!?!
I’m lovin’ this post.
sanford_and_son - July 7, 2010
Ramos and Hicks is kind of crazy.
Teej - July 7, 2010
I just read "Justin Smoak" somewhere!
But then I realized I wrote “Justin Smoak” and the world sparkled less.
philosofool - July 7, 2010
Justin Smoak for Cliff Lee is insanity.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
"Crazy"
is the word of the day. No synonyms: “Justin Smoak for Cliff Lee is crazy.”
philosofool - July 7, 2010
I don't think so. As good as Hicks is, Lee might just make that team the AL faves.
tait644 - July 7, 2010
And kind of awesome.
Awesome crazy.
sanford_and_son - July 7, 2010
Daniels called Zduriencik and asked what he wanted.
Jack says, I want your nuts on a fucking platter. Daniels thought he meant crazy.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
How this plays out in San Diego
Jed Hoyer: I will pay you $0.50 for that hat
Jack Z: What? You will pay me seventy-three dollars for this hat.
Hoyer: Actually I was never authorized to offer $0.50. Would you consider this used mattress from Mobile, AL for that hat?
Z: No. How about Adrian…
Hoyer: Never mind.
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
Inside the Royals negotiations.
Dayton Moore enters Zduriencik’s office. Moore is reading from a 2009 Baseball America prospect handbook.
Moore: I will not buy this Bedard, it is scratched.
Z: Sorry?
Moore: I will not buy this Bedard, it is scratched.
Z: Uh, no, no, no. We’re trading Cliff Lee.
Moore: Ah! I will not buy this Cliffy; it is scratched.
Z: No, no, no, no. Cliff…um…Lee(points to Cliff Lee poster on wall).
Moore: Ya! Cleef-a Lee! Ya! Uh…My baseball is full of eels.
Z: Sorry?
Moore: My baseball (pantomimes swinging a bat)…is full of eels
(holds up handbook).
Z: Ahh, prospects!
Moore: Ya! Ya! Ya! Ya! Do you waaaaant…do you waaaaaant…to take back to your place Yuni Yuni?
Z: Here, I don’t think you’re using that thing right.
Moore: You great poof.
Z: That’ll be Moustakas and Lamb, please.
Moore: If I said Rob Johnson had a beautiful defense, would you trade it to me? I…I am much interested.
Z: Uh, may I, uh…(takes prospect book, flips through it)…Johnson costs Hosmer and Montgomery…ah, here we are. (shows pictures of prospects covered in crayon)
Moore high-fives Z.
Z calls in Rob Johnsons
Johnson: What’s going on here then?
Moore: Ah. You have beautiful thighs.
Johnson: (looks down at himself) WHAT?!?
Z: We traded you to the Royals!
Moore: Drop your baseballs, Sir Johnson; I cannot wait ’til gametime.
Johnson: RIGHT!!!
Moore: (triumphantly) My roster explodes with delight!
ThomasG - July 7, 2010
Methinks this will be a dead meme soon.
MT Olson - July 7, 2010
At the very least the mass confusion is funny.
Double06 - July 7, 2010
The only point of a meme is to die quickly
Lucky Loser - July 7, 2010
What?
Rec’d anyway.
Double06 - July 7, 2010
I don't get it.
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
It's a take on a Monty Python sketch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Gn6a3WbYw
Eyebrows - July 7, 2010
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I’m not a huge Monty Python person myself, so I didn’t know about that one.
qrsouther - July 7, 2010
I will not give this rec, it is scratched.
lailaihei - July 7, 2010
When Lee goes, will the M's call up Pineda?
eedgaar - July 7, 2010
Bedard! We won't miss a beat!*
*Many beats will be missed.
lemonverbena - July 7, 2010
The guy just got to AAA.
Eyebrows - July 7, 2010 via mobile
No
Brian Floyd - July 7, 2010
Don't count on it
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
Pineda will come up when rosters expand I guess
no point in rushing him up here just yet. If we really need a starter we’ve got plenty of guys who can pitch 5 frames.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Also, why burn a year of service by rushing a the guy?
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
Right. We had this discusison, but about Ackley.
Probably they both come up in September and get pretty regular playing time.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
It wouldn't be burning a year of service
We would be adding days that start counting toward his first year, but he’s way past the point where it would add up to a whole year. The only way it would matter is if he were up for only part of the season next year, and the total time on the roster for both years exceeded 172 days. So, it might make a difference, but probably not, and the Mariners could easily manipulate his service time to avoid that.
Not till September, or at the earliest, sometime in August, if they want to keep his innings down and decide to use him out of the bullpen.
nathaniel dawson - July 7, 2010
Yes
Matthew - July 7, 2010
I appreciate your ability to stand up against the correct crowd
ermac - July 7, 2010
He's also got an innings issue.
They’re going to want to rest him at some point this year.
Thingray - July 7, 2010
I hope the last two guys that should be in that picture are not mobile
because I’d love to see a whole slew of CLIFFL tributes for the rest of the season.
pdb - July 7, 2010
Every time I jump online I feel more confident that Lee will make his Friday start.
tait644 - July 7, 2010
With this front office, trades seem to come out of nowhere
The minute there is a lull in Cliff Lee news, I will begin to get excited.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
I'm going to go ahead and speculate that we will not know anything at all
until after the break. Teams will have some time to talk to one another, and why would a team pick up a pitcher right before he has to go take the mound for an exhibition game? There will be no useful information about it until next week.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Boo this man.
abender20 - July 7, 2010
Is boo spelled R-E-C?
el generico - July 7, 2010
I want this to happen quick and somewhat painless
I will cry once he goes, but i’m tired of all the speculation and want the best possible deal!
Marinerfanjake - July 7, 2010
Comcast seems to provide plenty of sports channels that offer the latest updates and insightful sports programming of all types
All in amazing HD format, it’s really swell
Kermit. - July 7, 2010
Insightful sports programming you can put to use while playing CBS Sportsline's Fantasy Baseball Manager!
Jeff Sullivan - July 7, 2010
You ho
nathaniel dawson - July 7, 2010
My guess is that he is headed to the NL Central
Poochie - July 7, 2010 via mobile
The Nationals play in the NL East
seattlebruin - July 7, 2010
The Mariners play in the AL West
wyte_lightning - July 7, 2010
Newell's Old Boys play in the Argentine Premier Division
pdb - July 7, 2010
Food goes in here
ermac - July 7, 2010
Man bonk woman in head with club, make wife.
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010
Cardinals seem like they might be a good match.
Robert - July 7, 2010
I was thinking this as well
Poochie - July 7, 2010 via mobile
Hopefully before Friday
I got Cards tickets for that night.
Robert - July 7, 2010
Where are you sitting?
Poochie - July 7, 2010
On the arch.
Robert - July 8, 2010
Those are good seats
Poochie - July 8, 2010
Red uniforms are cool
ignacio - July 7, 2010
How will what we get compare to what we gave?
What amazes me is the idea that we might have just gotten a half season of Lee for free. Do people think we’ll get back better prospects than we gave up?
Snuffleupagus - July 7, 2010
That's pretty much guaranteed.
Jeff Nye - July 7, 2010
You subject sentence seems perfectly grammatical, yet I had to read it 5 times to understand it.
That’s weird.
Oh, and considering we should get at least 1 blue chipper, the package will be better than what we gave up.
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010
Well that's unfortunate.
CapSea - July 7, 2010
I had the same problem, my tongue couldn't even pronounce all the words in order.
MT Olson - July 7, 2010
This would be worse if the Lebron thing weren't taking up everyones attention.
the other side - July 7, 2010
We trade Lee to New York
We get Fernando Martinez, Mejia, and LeBron in a sign and trade.
craig3410 - July 7, 2010
If I shoot LeBron and kill him, then bury him on the moon, will everyone quit talking about him?
Thingray - July 7, 2010
I will give you a hat for this service rendered.
ermac - July 7, 2010
50% Off base price
Marinerfanjake - July 7, 2010
Make it a nacho hat and you have a deal.
Thingray - July 7, 2010
(using fast little announcer voice)
Hat exchange does not guarantee death of LeBron.. Moon claim may be Thingray blowing smoke out his ass. Not valid in the US, Canada or Mexico.
Thingray - July 7, 2010
Being buried on the moon might be the biggest news since S.R. Hadden died in space.
Wilder. - July 7, 2010
Who is SR Hadden?
Thingray - July 7, 2010
Look at this guy, doesn't even know who SR Hadden is. Geez.
hmmm…
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010
According to Google this is a character from "Contact"?
Why would this be memorable?
Thingray - July 7, 2010
Look at it this way,
you’re not talking about LeBron anymore!
Wilder. - July 7, 2010
Good point.
Thingray - July 7, 2010
I had no idea either.
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010 via mobile
Just don't look.
To stop these monsters 1-2-3, here’s a fresh new way that’s trouble-free!
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010
If anything I think he would garner even more atention.
Eyeball Kid - July 8, 2010
Take this for whatever it's worth...
According to a poster on John Sickel’s site (I know, I know – what reliable sources I’m bringing to the table!), Z is apparently in Toronto at this very moment watching the Jays duel the Twins. Slowey, one of starting pitcher names that’s been bandied about in Cliff Lee trade talks is currently toeing the rubber. So…maybe something’s up? Just passing the wild speculation along…
ebbnflow - July 7, 2010
He is the worst source available!
Marinerfanjake - July 7, 2010
For what its worth MLBTR told me that Slowey/Ramos was what the Twins offer was.
But then someone else said something else and then another thing and another source before finally I decided that I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore.
Kenneth Arthur - July 7, 2010
My sources tell me that I don't have sources and that making stuff up and posting it on the Internet is a bad idea.
CapSea - July 7, 2010
Not if it turns out to be true.
Marinerfanjake - July 7, 2010
No. Still a bad idea.
Matthew - July 7, 2010
I find it extremely unlikely that Jack Z himself would go to Minnesota to scout.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
I agree....
It’s not like he doesn’t have the technology to watch all Slowey all the time in his own office if he wanted to.
PLU Tim - July 7, 2010
So someone saw a bald man behind the plate in Toronto?
JonBBT - July 7, 2010
He did scout Ackley when he was with North Carolina.
However, I agree seeing as how the circumstances are vastly different.
Double06 - July 7, 2010
It sure beats watching the M's, so I don't see why not.
lailaihei - July 7, 2010
Taken for exactly what it is worth!
tait644 - July 7, 2010
A grain of salt has more value.
CapSea - July 7, 2010
On Negotiating:
I had a history professor once who told us:
Americans idea of negotiating is that you say 100, I counter with 50, and we settle on 75.
She was in a market in Egypt and the shopkeeper was trying to sell her some basket.
He said it cost 100 (whatever the currency was). She countered with 10.
He came back with 90. She said 10. He said 80, she said 10. He said 70 she said 10.
The guy acted like he was completely insulted, like she was trying to rob him.
Eventually she got it for 12.
ARock - July 7, 2010
Pretty much how it works
it’s also good to say your spouse will kill you and start walking out of the shop. My GF and I had a good cop/bad cop routine worked out where I was pissed about buying anything and wanted to get the fuck out of there and she was trying to convince me to let her buy it. Worked like magic.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 7, 2010
Rangers!
Link and Link
The gist: No to Perez, Scheppers, Ogandi (add Feliz and Smoak to that list)
Key pieces: Chris Davis, Saltalamacchia, Blake Beavan, Derek Holland
I’d almost prefer the Rangers. They maybe won’t give us the top prospect that other teams might, but they have such a quantity of young talent that we could potentially get a few pieces out of the deal.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
None of those players sound at all appealing to me
Aaron Campeau - July 7, 2010
Holland!
Jeff Sullivan - July 8, 2010
For Cliff Lee I want their weed and some of their soccer players too
Aaron Campeau - July 8, 2010
Derek Holland appears to be better than I thought he was.
Hmm.
Aaron Campeau - July 8, 2010
I want Holland so badly.
abender20 - July 8, 2010
I want quality over quantity,
Jed MC - July 7, 2010
Indeed.
They’d have to give up one of their top guys, on second thought. I guess I just like their secondary pieces more than most other teams. Saltalamacchia is a former top catching prospect who is younger than Moore. Holland is a potentially great arm. Davis blows, though.
Fuckmikereilly - July 7, 2010
Saltalamacchia? Really?
Jeff Nye - July 8, 2010
He's 25 and has less than 800 ABs in the majors
He’d come in as possibly our best catching option, and he’s got much more potential than Johnson or Bard. He’s probably the third piece in any deal, but I don’t see how it’s ridiculous.
Fuckmikereilly - July 8, 2010
I'd want two other damn good pieces
He hasn’t posted a wOBA over .300 since 2008, when he posted a whopping .318.
I’m as tired of Johnson as the next guy, but Salty would be yet another reclamation projecct at this point. I’’m getting a bit tired of those.
Jeff Nye - July 8, 2010
He also cannot throw the ball back to the pitcher right now.
Sec 108 - July 8, 2010
Isn't Derek Holland really, really good?
Eyeball Kid - July 8, 2010
Yes. Potentially better than Perez. Maybe not as good as Feliz. But will Feliz ever really transition back to starter?
Kenneth Arthur - July 8, 2010
I don't hate it!
Poochie - July 8, 2010
My hope is, with Smoak struglging, we could throw in Branyan and get an extra something decent back
Poochie - July 8, 2010
Yay to Holland, boo to Davis.
Teej - July 8, 2010
Don't you all think Cliff Lee will not be traded at least until after the ASG?
How awkward would it be for the Mariners if he was traded in the next few days, which uniform would he wear at the ASG? The Mariner uniform or his new team he got traded to?
44FAN - July 8, 2010
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