Joel Sherman's been the go-to guy here all along, and so:
i have learned deal done with #Rangers, Smoak and 3 others for Lee and reliever Mark Lowe #Rangers, #Mariners
Time to think for a while.
Matthew's Update: Trade confirmed by Ken Rosenthal. I could have hoped as much as possible, but hope does not change the underlying facts and the lay of the situation and the circumstances of where the Mariners found themselves both this year and in 2011 made trading Lee almost a necessity. That necessity has been borne out and Cliff Lee is headed out. We now have secondary confirmation that Zduriencik has traded Lee to the Rangers along with Mark Lowe.
To Cliff, I hope you think well of us as you pack your locker. I certainly would not mind if you gave some thought to returning with a free agent contract. For now, so long and thanks for the memories.
Further Update:
The complete return appears to be:
23 year old switch-hitting 1B Justin Smoak
21 year old righty SP Blake Beavan
24 year old righty 2B Matt Lawson
25 year old righty RP Josh Lueke
0 recs | 989 comments
Time to wait and see what the 3 others are.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
This is so weird
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
The feelings I am experiencing now
Are remarkably similar to how I felt the day Griffey retired.
HititHere - July 9, 2010
Mine too!
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Funny I feel the same way I did when we traded FOR Lee
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
I was more relieved at that point.
I am genuinely excited to get Smoak.
Sec 108 - July 9, 2010
The Smoak Monster and 3 Others
coreyjro - July 9, 2010
Why exactly would the Rangers want someone with a bad back
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Hes from Texas?
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
I guess it means we're getting Scheppers ;)
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
I'm guessing it has something to do with money.
But that’s all I’ve got right now.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I want the return, but losing Lee still makes me cry.
JAH - July 9, 2010
well not to be rude
but you guys were going nowhere this year and not signing him, so seems like a win
astromets - July 9, 2010
He's amazing to watch.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
o i know, seen plenty of him
astromets - July 9, 2010
Capitalization, spelling, and all that is appreciated.
the other side - July 9, 2010
thanks for contributing to the discussion
sixth - July 9, 2010
These are rules at LL.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
So please capitalize.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
You underestimate the impact performances like his can have on a fanbase during a season like this.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
That does not mean we should be happy that Cliff Lee is no longer on our team.
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Ok, Joel - so spill on the others!
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
AHHHHHH
cedarA - July 9, 2010
Rosenthal just confirmed
We’re sending cash too
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
YES
Punkhazard - July 9, 2010
Awwww...
I liked Mark Lowe :(
I Lick Squirrels - July 9, 2010
.
msb - July 9, 2010
Smoak > Montero?
Slow Country - July 9, 2010
I would say yes but I suppose most others disagree
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
Montero's ceiling > Smoak's ceiling
However, Smoak > Montero right now. And Smoak’s floor is much greater than Montero’s.
arbeck77 - July 9, 2010
By “greater floor” I presume you mean Smoak’s floor is higher?
sammy - July 9, 2010
Subject line please
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Sorry
sammy - July 9, 2010
That's ok! Just letting ya know
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I do know!
I just haven’t been too active here lately.
sammy - July 9, 2010
Yes
There is a greater chance Montero flames out than Smoak. Or Montero could become a DH only. There’s more risk involved with him.
arbeck77 - July 9, 2010
Yes
He’s probably going to be an above average defender with more experience.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
I hate you guys
Promise to be kind to Smoaky. He’s a wonderful, wonderful man who deserves your adoration.
Conjunction - July 9, 2010
You better not break Cliff!!!
And you might as well win the goddamn world series while you’re at it.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I can almost guarantee he will receive an alarming amount of adoration.
FairWeatherFred - July 9, 2010
Yes, I have a bad feeling the Rangers will feel this for the next 5 years
rlb02a - July 9, 2010
but if the rangers win this year their fans wont care much
and the rangers are a pretty good bet right now
astromets - July 9, 2010
Use proper capitalization and punctuation please.
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Rosenthal saying it is confirmed.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I don't see how Smoak fits in this roster with Kotchman entrenched as our everyday first baseman.
Janic - July 9, 2010
Good point... Smoak will clearly be flipped to bring back Yuni and Willie Ballgame!
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
Really?
If we could get Kila, Gordon, and Greinke, I’d be for it.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Honestly,
you don’t have to include Greinke before it becomes a really tough proposition.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
So who is Justin Smoak bringing in to the club?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
So can we fuck up this thread too?
the other side - July 9, 2010
Done.
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Lee, the Man they call Lee
He was traded from the good
And sent to the bad
Stood up to big bats
Which his team didn’t have
Our love for him now
It’s easy to see
The hero of SoDo
The man they call Lee
Our Lee saw the Mariners’ backs breakin’
He saw the diehards’ lament
And he saw division rivals takin’
Every pennant with no chance to contend
So he said "you can’t do that to this city"
He said "you can’t crush them under your heel"
So Lee strapped on his hat
And in 5 seconds flat
He’d face three up, three down – no big deal
He was traded from the good
And sent to the bad
Stood up to big bats
Which his team didn’t have
Our love for him now
It’s easy to see
The hero of SoDo
The man they call Lee
Now here is what separates Cy Youngs
From common folk like Hyphen and Snell
The man they call Lee
When his run support did flee
Never wavered, just kept throwin’ well
He struck out the Rangers
He struck out the Rays
The man they called Lee
He stole away our pain
Then we sent him away to brighter days
Traded from the bad
Sent back to the good
Where he’ll finally win games
Like we wish we could
Our love for him now
Still easy to see
The hero of SoDo
The man they call Lee
seattlecougar - July 9, 2010
Rec'd for shere effort
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
Recced for fireflyness
Conjunction - July 9, 2010
Wow... can't believe I missed that connection. - Can I triple rec?
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
You can rec and unrec to your heart's content.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
I want to Rec for same
and I want to cry because, you know, Firefly…
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
That was an absolute travesty.
I think they’ve re-released it three times on disc and its sales increase each time?
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
It is without a doubt the best Sci Fi series since ST:TNG
The fact it was cancelled after 14 episodes is depressing beyond words.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
It was better than TNG, but it can never compete with the place TNG holds in TV history.
The first multi-million dollar per episode show in TV history will always be special. For pure quality sci-fi entertainment, Firefly is unrivaled. Glad to see the cast getting work.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
:(
At least it got the movie. I would have loved for more movies… Perhaps… If one can dream….
seattlecougar - July 9, 2010
What was the movie called?
Firefly?
Stupid question?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Serenity.
sigh.
msb - July 9, 2010
Thanks!
I’m guessing it’s worth Netflixing?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
YEP
JY - July 9, 2010
And there are some decent comic books, too.
I haven’t read the one that Patton Oswalt wrote.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Yup.
msb - July 9, 2010
Yes.
BrianL - July 9, 2010
That's a 10-4.
One of the better TV villains in that movie.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Only if you watched the series
sammy - July 9, 2010
Nope.
Great movie regardless.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
I think I would have been bored if I hadn't watched the series.
Also, I’d have hated to watch the movie first then go back and watch the show.
sammy - July 9, 2010
I watched the movie first
and loved it enough to go back and watch the T.V. series. It was all well worth my time, no matter how brief it might have been. Goodbye Cliff L…erm, Firefly.
John Edwards - July 9, 2010
Yes, but
Netflix the series first. It used to be on Insta-watch. Just make sure you have 14 hours set aside in case you can’t stop.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
Well poop
Is it a requirement to have watched the series first? Will I be lost watching the movie otherwise?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Nope.
Stands perfectly well on its own.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
You will however appreciate certain character things better if you have seen the series.
Certain moments will be more meaningful.
JY - July 9, 2010
Absolutely.
For me it would be a 7/10 without viewing the series, and a 9/10 after.
I know this because that’s how I experienced it :( I was not aware prior to Serenity.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I watched it in order.
It was the right thing to do, but after blowing through BTVS/Angel on my way in, it just ended with me feeling really sad and empty.
JY - July 9, 2010
Yuck.
Talk about a case of fandom blueballs. What a letdown that must’ve been.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Dollhouse was announced soon after but we all know how that went.
Seeing things flame out early has a tendency to make you overestimate what might have been.
JY - July 9, 2010
This is true.
But not many creative artists can produce a half season like Cliff Le-, or rather, Joss Whedon. Imagining what could have been is all we can hope for at this point.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
It's disgusting in a way.
I can imagine the kind of emotional investment he had in Firefly that likely did not transfer to Dollhouse, so now I wonder about what he’ll do in the future.
JY - July 9, 2010
I actually watched the movie first and loved it
I was fucking smashed at the time, though, so remembered nothing when I eventually got to watching the series.
Having said that, I would certainly recommend seeing the series first.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
It should be on Hulu still
Was last time I checked (a few weeks ago)
seattlecougar - July 9, 2010
The whole series?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Just 5 episodes at a time right now.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Blargh...
That’s better than nothing. Well, there goes my weekend!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Yeah, but it's in the middle, episodes 11-15
You’d be better off renting the DVDs or finding them online elsewhere.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Yay .torrents!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I've bee watching Castle on ABC
Not really because it’s good (it’s not), but because NATHAN FILLION!
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
The Whedon is strong with you.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Love this.
joof - July 9, 2010
This is a gutsy trade
Within division and whatnot
benderbrodriguez - July 9, 2010
Would it be a fair to assume that we are getting more because its a trade within the division?
Punkhazard - July 9, 2010
BY CLIFF WE'LL MISS YOUR SEXY OWNAGE.
BUT WHAT WE GET BACK FOR YOU IS IMPORTANT TO US.
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
Depending on who those three are, I'm quite pleased we've chosen to dig into the Rangers stock.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
So... 3 others.
Gotta think a catcher (Salty?) Pitcher (Holland? Perez? Harden? for salary) and something else? I have no idea – but you gotta think Salty or Teagarden or Ramirez is in there.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Bullpen help?
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
Can only mean Feliz!
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Teej mentioned it in the last thread, but the Rangers would be out of their gourds to trade Smoak Holland and Perez.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
If Perez is included
You might want to avoid Seattle for a bit as I imagine there will be an inordinate number of LSB prospect gurus tearing down Safeco…as soon as they finish with JD’s office.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
WHO ARE THE OTHER THREE?
cedarA - July 9, 2010
HAHAHAHA!
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
FUCK THE BANKEES
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Absolutely... while I would have loved Montero I want no part of helping them win a damn thing.
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
AND NOW WE CAN RAPE AND PILLAGE TEXAS
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
DUDE YOU FORGOT TO REPLACE THE 'S' WITH A DOLLAR SIGN
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
This is almost the best part of this whole trade is that we fucking Indiangave him to the Yankees!
scottg02 - July 9, 2010
The Yankees got outbid by a bankrupt team with no owners.
That should make for some fun copy in New York.
drblacknwhite - July 9, 2010
Already happened.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Fuck Yo Couch, 'Brenner!!!
DrewManchu - July 9, 2010
Post updated.
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Can't wait to see what number he's going to wear so I can order my jersey
Stormton - July 9, 2010
Ok.
THIS is going to be in my head the rest of the day.
msb - July 9, 2010
Smoke on the Water was there for me for a while, predictably.
but it was replaced by this.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
At least it's not
THIS…
not sure why it was the first thing to come to my mind.
chrees - July 9, 2010
Looks like we kicked in 2.5mil for a better package
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
B&S
says Olney
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Lee?
LEE!
bamfor - July 9, 2010
Smoak's wikipedia page is now in Mariners colors
bluemax - July 9, 2010
Wikipedia is fucking fast.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Wikipedia wouldn't update until a press release.
I think its Robert. Robert or Scruffy.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Not me.
I updated the Felix page regarding the Extension but it took till May.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Who does these things?
Manzanillos Cup - July 9, 2010
Reverted to Rangers!
xero3k - July 9, 2010
THANK GOD IT WASN'T THE CRANKEES
It would have hurt so badly to see him in a New York uniform.
Plus, SMOAK! Fuck yeah.
tehbagel - July 9, 2010
It will be interesting to see if he chooses to stay with Texas
or if this is just postponing the inevitable.
msb - July 9, 2010
There's a much greater than zero chance
The Rangers ownership situation is still being worked out this offseason.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
He could very well get lit up with the HR ball as well
A number of fly balls have died at the track at the Safe that won’t in Arlington.
Lit up may be strong language, but it’s not likely that he does as well
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
True
But he’ll have a better offense supporting him. It’s been more wet than hot and dry this summer, so the ‘jet stream’ hasn’t had quite as big of an effect…yet.
Still, it doesn’t matter how much you like the Rangers defense, he’s going to a much worse environment to pitch in.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
I'm resisting the urge to be sad about Lee
Yay for Smoak but…I just…I’m confused.
Aaroniero Arruruerie - July 9, 2010
Nah, be sad. It sucks that this is a business but that should not stop loving watching the guy play.
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
YESSSSSSSSS.......BITCHESSSSSSSSSSS!
scooter4 - July 9, 2010
It's on ESPN News right now
bluemax - July 9, 2010
Oh nevermind they just announced it, no details
bluemax - July 9, 2010
And now Buster Olney is on
bluemax - July 9, 2010
Still no names besides the 3 we know
Seattle kicking in $2.5 million
bluemax - July 9, 2010
MLB NETWORK
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
Whoever is in charge of the Z banner...
HANG THAT SHIT UP AGAIN
the other side - July 9, 2010
I SWEAR I WILL NOT BURN YOU
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
No kidding
what a way to drive up the price!
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
BRETT IS ON IT
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
I WILL HANG IT UP ON SATURDAY SINCE I AM MISSING TODAY'S GAME BECAUSE MY FAVORITE BAND IS PLAYING A CONCERT TONIGHT
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
and by BITCHESSSSS.......i mean the yankees.
scooter4 - July 9, 2010
There's a surprise.
Also please use proper capitalisation (ironic, I know) in the future.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
MOTHER FUCKING YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
Best of all?
HAHAHAH FUCK YOU ANGELS!
Goose - July 9, 2010
This shit is insane.
Slow Country - July 9, 2010
On a scale of 1 to suicial, how upset do you think Yankee fans are?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
2. They'll get him in the offseason and are still the best team
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Head in oven.
http://twitter.com/ShadiestNucca
“Fuck you Mariners you fucking fucks,,,fuck you you fucking fucksticks. #yankees #mariners "
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
That just made my day.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
THIS IS BEAUTIFUL
JY - July 9, 2010
LEE-BRON JAMES!
Decatur - July 9, 2010
from the Dallas radio
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE
WHO THE FUCK CARES JUSTIN SMOAK WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Double06 - July 9, 2010
I care because if there's not another + prospect in there I'd rather have the Yankees offer
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
THEN YOU BETTER HOPE FOR THE THIRD PLAYER TO BE +
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I AM BEING COMPLETELY RATIONAL RIGHT NOW
Double06 - July 9, 2010
INFO QUICKLY SOMEONE ON THESE NAMES. IM UNFAMILIAR
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
WHERE'S JY!?!?!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I'M HERE, GIMME A MINUTE
JY - July 9, 2010
NOT TOP TEN PROSPECTS APPARENTLY
JY - July 9, 2010
FIRST INFO: LEUKE IS 25 AND HARDLY HAS ANY INNINGS PITCHED IN THE MINORS THOUGH THEY ARE GOOD I GUESS?
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
LAWSON IS 24 YEAR OLD 2ND BASEMAN IN AA.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Who isn't much of a hitter.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Leuke's a decent relief prospect.
Career was put on hold because, I shit you not, he was accused of rape while at Bakersfield. He throws 94-97 with a low 80’s slider.
Lawson’s nobody.
LiamP - July 9, 2010
This fucking sucks.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
But hey, SMOAK!!!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
WAIT THOUGH. They have one more pitcher to name and they got a shitload of good pitchers. Including ones that could be PTBNL.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
SCHEPPERS IS A PTBNL AT THIS POINT
JY - July 9, 2010
DOWN BELOW THEY SAY BEAVEN! NOT BAD!
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
You got Justin Smoak.
You should be doing handstands and humping parking meters.
LiamP - July 9, 2010
IT IS HARD TO DO THAT AND TYPE AT THE SAME TIME BUT I WILL TRY
JY - July 9, 2010
Jesus Montero, son.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
~.355 wOBAr right now
for Smoak
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Over 275 PAs, that means jack shit
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Ok
Just trying to point out that he’s not as bad at the MLB level as his surface numbers look. I could have just posted his LD% and BABIP I s’pose.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
THAT FUCKING SUCKS
I WAS EXPECTING WAY BETTER.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Who are Leuke and Lawson?
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
I DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Don't know any of those names - but I don't follow TEX farm system
The plus 1 more thing is intriguing – could be a Scheppers PTBNL until September (year after the signed)
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
What the hell is a Leuke
Alto - July 9, 2010
He is your father.
Robert - July 9, 2010
He raped someone
google it
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Hopefully it was a pitcher.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
And not a catcher
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Nope
The Rangers had to put him on a different team as part of an agreement with the law there.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Like Rothlesburger-raped or actually convicted of rape?
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Been discussed other places on the thread.
Subthread closed.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Thanks!
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
Oh cool.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Some bloody bugger
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
HOW THE FUCK WOULD THEY KNOW
the other side - July 9, 2010
and Beavan
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
THOSE SOUND LIKE MADE UP NAMES
Punkhazard - July 9, 2010
ITS SPELLED LUEKE
Karma Police - July 9, 2010
Josh Lueke, reliever
Karma Police - July 9, 2010
WHO THE SHIT?
JAH - July 9, 2010
Meh. Was hoping for more with the other three
tait644 - July 9, 2010
105.3
is a bullshit station with no credibility. I wouldn’t bet on this being true.
Conjunction - July 9, 2010
Good to know,
MFAN - July 9, 2010
This is true
TheHuntforRedOctober - July 9, 2010
If this is true I will be upset we didn't take the Yankees offer.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Yeah, we seemed to be getting more from NY.
JAH - July 9, 2010
It's probably not true
abender20 - July 9, 2010
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
BrianL - July 9, 2010
Would have rather us traded him to the Yankees instead.
Sounds like he is going there eventually and I don’t want to help the Rangers win the pennant and leave us as the only team in the league without one.
Robert - July 9, 2010
So Smoak
plus 2 meh and a potential middle ot back of the rotation SP that just got promoted to AAA
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
So.....does Smoak head to Tacoma? Does Bradley go away? Branyan traded again?
Goose - July 9, 2010
Saunders back to AAA?
bluemax - July 9, 2010
Hell no
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
No!
InSpokane - July 9, 2010
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN
JY - July 9, 2010
No. Probably bad news for Bradley
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Cutting Kotchman makes way more sense.
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
Kotchman is still on the team.
No point in having 3 first basemen
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Jon Morosi tweeted.
#Mariners getting Smoak, two pitchers and one position player, source says. #Rangers #MLB
Patton - July 9, 2010
That means they owe us a good fucking pitcher.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Caller is worried that this strengthens the Rangers.
and makes the Rangers a money-making machine.
msb - July 9, 2010
Caller should kill themself.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Caller is worried that too much cocaine is bad for health
tait644 - July 9, 2010
My fellow AL westerners...
Please.. please be good to Justin…
Please.. please be good to Justin…On this day, the Ranger fanbase has had their heart broken.
Please.. please be good to Justin…On this day, the Ranger fanbase has had their heart broken.So as much as we compete with eachother and hope for the demise of one another…
Please.. for us.. be good to him..
Please.. for us.. be good to him..tears
TheHuntforRedOctober - July 9, 2010
We will be.
And you will LOVE Lee. He has made me fall in love with baseball in a way I didn’t know was possible.
Patton - July 9, 2010
Lee is amazing
it is an honor to root for a team he pitches for
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
You might win the World Series, though.
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
My fellow AL westerners...
Please.. please be good to Cliff…
Please.. please be good to Cliff …On this day, the Mariner fanbase has had their heart broken.
Please.. please be good to Cliff…On this day, the Mariner fanbase has had their heart broken.So as much as we compete with eachother and hope for the demise of one another…
Please.. for us.. be good to him..
Please.. for us.. be good to him..tears
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
WE WILL TRY TO DO OUR BEST IN THESE TRYING TIMES
JY - July 9, 2010
I can honestly say that I'm rooting for the Rangers to win the World Series this year.
Of course the Mariners will win a number of World Series in the coming years with Smoak leading the way to overcome the franchise-saving 2010 WS victory of the Rangers, but still. NEW RIVALRY. GOODBYE PADRES!
Decatur - July 9, 2010
THE RANGERS ARE ONE OF THE FEW REMAINING TEAMS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE WS
IF THEY GET THERE BEFORE US, I WILL BE SORT OF UPSET, BUT ALSO A LITTLE HAPPY IN THIS CASE BECAUSE THEIR MODEL IS SOUND AND THEY HAVE TWO PLAYERS I’M FOND OF
JY - July 9, 2010
I hate to say it but the NYY package might have been better
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
BLAKE BEAVEN IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I call bullshit
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Beavan > McAllister??
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Probably
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Yes.
I would say so.
Patton - July 9, 2010
maybe
just got promoted to AAA. Had a great time in AA.
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
YES!
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
Yes
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
DEFINITELY
JY - July 9, 2010
Pitchers typically need to strike people out in order not to be awful
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
6'7, 210 LBS, 91-96 MPH FASTBALL AROUND THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED
HE’S NOT WALKING ANYONE, SO I’D SAY WITH SOME TWEAKS AND PERHAPS IMPROVED SECONDARIES, THIS IS NOT TOO WORRISOME.
JY - July 9, 2010
Remember Andrew Miller and Rick Porcello?
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
WASN'T MILLER INJURED THOUGH?
JY - July 9, 2010
Miller ended up being lesson #1 in
PAY ATTENTION TO STRIKEOUTS
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Yeah gotta go with Graham on this one
His low strikeouts are worrisome. You can’t really be a MLB pitcher and only have 4 K/9. It just doesn’t usually work. I hope since he is super young his K rate increases as he ages but you can’t count on that.
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
HE ALSO HAD HORRIBLE COMMAND AT MOST LEVELS
JY - July 9, 2010
They completely changed his pitching mechanics
Right after he was drafted. Rapid drop in velocity that has been slowly creeping back up to acceptable levels.
The control is good, but you have to hope he develops at least one plus secondary if you want to see anything better than a 3/4 out of him.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Yeah, but he seems to be a low-risk type of guy.
Maybe he never develops past #3/4, but that’s a fairly great return as a #2 piece.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Oh yeah
I always thought he would be valuable as that. I was just hoping it was Scheppers instead of Smoak headlining.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.
JY - July 9, 2010
Just don't look at the K%
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
BACK ON BOARD THE Z TRAIN!
JAH - July 9, 2010
CHOO CHOO!!!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Don't mention Choo.
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
Lueke
Lueke’s MiLB page
38.1 IP and 62 K’s? That has to be a typo…
short - July 9, 2010
Wow he's been raping AA
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
Lots of rape talk recently.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Good for the soul
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
I HOPE THIS PARTICULAR JOKE DIES BUT I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIG FUSS ABOUT IT
JY - July 9, 2010
JUST ONCE JUST ONCE
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
You should come over to LSB sometime
There’s a poster I’d like to introduce you to…his name is thedirkatron.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
He also rapes other things...
linky
sprite - July 9, 2010
.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
I-I-I-I I SAY BOYYYYY!!!!
Matt Erickson - July 9, 2010
Was he convicted?
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Nope
sprite - July 9, 2010
Yes. Yes, the Mariners traded for a convicted rapist.
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
Better question: was he acquitted or is the trial and appeals process still pending?
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Plea deal
now that I’ve read the story I regret making jokes
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
Yeah... sounded pretty ugly from that one news story. Not a fan at this point
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, so I won't judge.
Doesn’t sound like this guy has a long criminal history before or after that.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
WHILE I OFTEN BELIEVE THAT COOLER HEADS PREVAIL AND PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY INCLINED TO MAKE MISTAKES...
THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE THAT I PERSONALLY AM CAPABLE OF FORGIVING A FELLOW FOR. I WON’T TREAT HIM WITH ANIMOSITY OUTSIDE OF BAD PITCHING PERFORMANCES BUT I WILL NEVER BE OKAY WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HE’S IN THE SYSTEM.
JY - July 9, 2010
What if it was really just drunken stupidity on the part of both parties involved?
I don’t know, I am 100% against anything of this nature, but I also know that people can be accused of things without basis, or they can end up in bad situations where things happened when they shouldn’t, but their wasn’t really an intent to do something bad.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
The rumor was
That the sex was consensual, then he went somewhere he wasn’t supposed to go and was nonconsensual.
I have no idea if it’s true.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Let's go ahead and not discuss this further since we know absolutely nothing about it.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Does this include jokes?
d0nkey - July 9, 2010
YOU'D BETTER FUCKING BELIEVE IT INCLUDES JOKES.
JY - July 9, 2010
Yes.
Jokes about actual rape are one of the most difficult things in the world to make funny.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Unless it's a clown telling them.
Robert - July 9, 2010
NO.
JY - July 9, 2010
Clowns make everything worse
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
This was unneeded.
Just leave the subthread closed.
Matthew - July 9, 2010
YES A MILLION FUCKING TIMES
the other side - July 9, 2010
What do you think?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I think abender20 is right.
Probably no point in discussing this. I shouldn’t have opened the can of worms.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
Yeah
I felt bad even posting that. Sorry.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
APOLOGY ACCEPTED. WE COOL.
JY - July 9, 2010
GOOD.
SETTING STANDARDS OF GOOD BEHAVIOR IS NOT REALLY MY THING, BUT I’D LIKE IT IF THIS PARTICULAR ONE WERE OFF-LIMITS.
JY - July 9, 2010
THIS CHANGES MY REACTION TO THE TRADE, BUT I WILL BACK OFF UNTIL FURTHER INFORMATION IS PROVIDED
I’LL TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT IT BUT WILL BE INCLINED TO RESPOND TO HIS PERFORMANCES WITH HARSH WORDS IF NECESSARY.
JY - July 9, 2010
For those not in on the joke
This is from last year. But it may explain why Texas let an infinity K/9 pitcher go.
short - July 9, 2010
Not sure it counts as a joke anymore...
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN A JOKE.
IT’S NOT FUNNY.
JY - July 9, 2010
That mustache isn't helping his image problems.
Smegmalicious - July 9, 2010
It's the only evidence against him
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
It's pretty damning, though.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
He's also 25.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Pleasure doing business with you, Jon Daniels!
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Who starts tonight?
eedgaar - July 9, 2010
PINEDA
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Texas Press Conference at 3 PM PDT.
drblacknwhite - July 9, 2010
Strange... I thought for sure we'd get a catcher in this deal
Rangers have a few guys they seem to have given up on. I mean, why else would you go out and get a Molina?
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
Yeah, I thought for sure Salty would be one of the 3.
MFAN - July 9, 2010
They have a belief system in Rob Johnson
bluemax - July 9, 2010
thought this was interesting
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
I'm gonna find Perez and touch the shit out of him. Just to prove a point that nobody is untouchable.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I kinda figured as much.
Feliz seems like he might be in the bullpen for life, so Perez is the guy they’re dreaming on in the rotation.
Teej - July 9, 2010
I was hoping we would get Mitch Moreland
Punkhazard - July 9, 2010
.
@StoneLarry M’s get Smoak, Seattle Times headline writers rejoice (Holy Smoak! Up in Smoak! Smoak and Mirrors! Smoakin’! Where There’s Smoak…!") etc.
msb - July 9, 2010
I LOVE LARRY'S SELF-AWARENESS
JY - July 9, 2010
I love Stone
JAH - July 9, 2010
Rizzs is the gittiest man on the planet right now.
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Giddiest?
msb - July 9, 2010
No, I think he was right first time.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Well, I did wonder.
msb - July 9, 2010
This is a lesser package (as reported lately anyway) and we added money AND Lowe over teh Yankees trade.
We should be blowing that out of the water. Doesn’t make sense.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
kinda what I thought
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
A few thoughts on that.
Perhaps there were Mariners players other than Lee going back to the Yankees who weren’t being widely publicized?
And while I’d also prefer the Yankees return, in the big picture it’s hard for me to get too perturbed about a return that includes Smoak. That’s a huge win and would have been dismissed as completely unrealistic even a few days ago.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
Maybe Smoak was Z's guy the whole time.
levnclf - July 9, 2010
That isn't how the front office operates
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
But they do seem to put a premium on MLB-ready players.
Teej - July 9, 2010
As has been said
Z doesn’t operate that way. However, his Major League readiness probably factored heavily
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
The rest of these prospects are shit.
I wanted Scheppers or Salty.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
This is stupid if the rumoured return is true
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Yup! I don't get it...I love Smoak and all, but hmmm.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
Do you think the downgrade from Montero to Smoak isn't worth the upgrade from McAllister to Beavin?
Double06 - July 9, 2010
Is Beavin an upgrade from McAllister?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Maybe slighty?
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
I have no idea!
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Yes, I think so. Beavin's upside seems higher. And he's younger.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I'm younger than Cliff Lee.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Age doesn't always matter, and it's one year in the case of those guys right?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I guess in my mind, though Beaven is in AA and McCallister is in AAA, Beaven has that one extra year to improve. Plus he's on the upswing, McCallister is having a down year.
I mean, it seems like neither was a strikeout pitcher, but Beaven gives up less walks. To be fair, I’m not going to make great stretches on comparing the two.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Beavan just got promoted to AAA
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Well, I obviously can't count his AAA numbers that don't exist yet. And isn't his promotion up to us now?
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Fair enough
Just trying to be helpful.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Sorry if I was dick-ish. Let us simply rejoice at this being over.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I'm so conflicted
It’s going to take a while I think.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Beavan
Low ceiling, close to majors type. Isn’t that the sort of pitcher you guys were interested in?
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
No. We have plenty of those guys.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I'm sick of having eighteen of those guys
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
McAllister was one of those guys
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Yes.
So if Smoak = Montero and McAllister = Beavan and Adams > Lawson, we just made a mistake.
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Adding Lowe and cash makes it less appealing, for sure.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Right, we apparently just traded cash and Mark Lowe for a worse 2B and an extra reliever
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
I agree, but we shouldn't discount the value of hurting Texas.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Assuming that other players weren't included in the deal with the Yankees
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Regarding the pitchers and how they stack up against McAllister
the numbers aren’t that different but I presume they have been heavily scouted
Bearskin Rugburn - July 9, 2010
The cash would have probably turned into some really nice international signings
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
DIFFERENT FUNDS
OUR ROSTER ACCOUNTING WAS PROBABLY INCLUDING LEE ALL ALONG.
JY - July 9, 2010
I will never understand how their accounting works
Its retarded
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
Different buckets.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
YES.
THAT’S THE GIST OF WHAT ANY OF US NEED TO KNOW AT THIS POINT.
CLIFF LEE DID NOT STEAL ALL OUR COOKIES ON HIS WAY OUT. WE DON’T ACCOUNT THAT WAY.
JY - July 9, 2010
You can say this all you want but it doesn't help
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
You have a lemonade stand. Your mommy and daddy give you 7 dollars for supplies but you use six.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Not really
Its more like they give you 4 dollars for lemons and 3 dollars for sugar. You find out lemons are on sale but sugar is expensive so you spend all your sugar budget but not all your lemon budget. This isn’t optimal.
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
I was making fun of you with something from The Office.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
hah, ok
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
That's pretty much how all businesses do accounting
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
What happens to a bucket if money is left there at the end of the year?
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
IT IS NOT PUT TOWARDS NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, I CAN TELL YOU THAT MUCH
JY - July 9, 2010
Man....
you seem pissed.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
THIS I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH AND REC YOU ON
JY - July 9, 2010
Sorry
I remember know that it was USSM that was proposing a Ramos+Slowey type deal
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
THAT WAS NOT AN APPEALING DEAL
JY - July 9, 2010
Gotcha
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Maybe Jack just wanted Smoak all along. His number one choice. When the Rangers called and finally said "okay fine" he was willing to go down in price on the other 3.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
This is contrary to how he has operated previously
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Yeah. Also, Smoak is much closer to being a valuable member to the major league team now than Montero. Jack still seems focused on 2011 and no later.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Just looking over Bleavan's AAA results this year,
in 110 IP he’s got 12 walks and 68 K’s to go along with his shiny 2.78 ERA.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
12 walks is fucking sick.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
So he's Doug Fister?
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
AS TALL, BUT BIGGER AND MORE HEAT.
JY - July 9, 2010
I was just gonna post this.
Doug Fister redux.
Not sure Beavan’s touching 96 like he was coming out of HS.
Frederick0220 - July 9, 2010
AA
tait644 - July 9, 2010
25
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
21
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Lueke or whatever is 25.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
My bad
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
You're right.
I was just looking at his MiLB page which suggests AAA. He’s in AA, repeating?
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Just called up
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
That is bad
Not good.
Bad.
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
AA
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
New Cliff Lee?
Allen Wu - July 9, 2010
CLIFF LEE STRIKES PEOPLE OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Ks are good. Nick Blackburn isn't/
abender20 - July 9, 2010
its all from AA
just started in AAA, hasn’t made a start yet
laxtonto - July 9, 2010
Jason Parks on him:
Beavan is a command/control pitcher w/a decent FB, decent CU, and iffy SL. Unless he adds a pitch, I project him to be a 4/5 at best.
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
OK, I got all excited about the Yankees deal, now I'm excited about this deal
I’m excited enough that I don’t know if this package is better than the Yankees package.
Smegmalicious - July 9, 2010
Other than Smoak, its not.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
I'd rather have Montero than Smoak and the rest of the prospects don't excite me in the least
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Yeah, but I think its pretty clear then that Z felt the other way.
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
Well sure but that doesn't mean I have to like it
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Larry Stone on MLB Network
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Well that was anticlimatic
Corco - July 9, 2010
FUCK.
This is not as good as I want it to be.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
How much value do you guys think we should place
in making Texas worse in the future with this deal? Seems like this is a pretty big swing after this season is over and they just get a couple of picks.
Zack - July 9, 2010
The "couple of picks"
Are going to be better than the shit we picked up in the deal other than Smoak.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
You have no way of knowing that.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
It's a reasonable supposition at this point
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
They'd certainly have more upside
Corco - July 9, 2010
I would guess so
Beavan just doesn’t have the ceiling he used to have.
They may not turn out to be as good in 5 years, but I think they would be more valuable over the next 1-3 years.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
All I'm saying is that the downgrade from Montero to Smoak
might be worth getting Smoak off of the roster of the team we are probably trying to catch the next couple years
Zack - July 9, 2010
It also cost us Lowe and $2.5M
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
They still have their pitching prospects.
w00tah - July 9, 2010
At the start of the day I'd have bitten your hand off if you offered Smoak+
The Yankees deal seemed better though. I’m still pretty damn happy.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Agreed.
I like to think of it as Mariners + Smoak for 5/6 years
Rangers – Smoak for 5/6 years
But Montero would have been awesome.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I'm going to stick on the Smoak side and package. But it's awfully close for me.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
In Z my trust is fully restored.
I can disagree with his preseason handling of Lee all I want, but the fact is I’ve never seen a GM with bigger balls. Turning down Montero to hold out for something better? Massive balls. What a trade.
Jon S. - July 9, 2010 via mobile
This isn't obviously something better
And we paid more for it
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
I agree.
He better have seen something he really liked in the things we are calling “chump change”
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
He did pretty well in the Putz deal.
And while you can’t predict a repeat, it does show that he’s got the ability to sniff some goodies out of the woodpile.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Rangers fan here
I still goddamn hate giving up Smoak. But Cliff Lee personifies sexiness.
Justin Smoak is a Will Clark/John Olerud mashup going forward. Tons of walks, hard contact, 25 HR power with solid D. .300/400/500 in his peak years.
Beavan came out of HS as a flamethrower with a good slider. Rangers changed his arm action (was thought to be a guarantee for injuries down the road) and he’s become a different pitcher entirely. THrows 89-92, average slider, change and curve. Pinpoint command and good groundball tendencies. Looks like a good bet to eat a lot of innings at the ML level.
Josh Leuke is a rapist.
He also throws in the mid 90s and is making AA hitters look lobotomized. He may be up in the majors fairly soon.
Matt Lawson is not a big league prospect. But, you know, depth is cool.
/Cries about Smoak some more.
/Looks at Cliff Lee highlights
Conjunction - July 9, 2010
Thanks, and welcome to LL.
Enjoy Cliff
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
Is Leuke friends with Ben Roethlisberger?
Coug1990 - July 9, 2010
Probably a good idea to close this subthread here.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Yeah if you are going to make fun of Roethlisberger you should bring up how he almost died when he went through an old lady's back window
Robert - July 9, 2010
This is really not fucking funny people.
the other side - July 9, 2010
hey dont knock pittsburgh
we have enough trouble with baseball as it is!
BurgherKing - July 9, 2010
and my heart cry's for the city of Pittsburgh
Robert - July 9, 2010
Capitalise properly, please.
wilsonpdx - July 9, 2010
You will LOVE Cliff and the ring he brings you.
lailaihei - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Thanks!
And please beat the holy tar out the Yankees in the ALD/CS.
short - July 9, 2010
Even if we hadn't included money and Lowe, that deal is worse than the reported Yankees package
I don’t get it, unless those reports weren’t true.
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
It's entirely possible they weren't true and if so were incomplete
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Exactly, that never happened so as far as we know it never existed.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Seems like the most likely scenario
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
Might have been why Pineda was scratched.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Holy fucking shit, I did not think of that.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I had that in my mind, too. Was too scared to think much about it though.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
If he was within a mile of that deal then holy fuck I'm glad that went away.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Yeah, it flitted about in my mind for a couple of seconds and then I banished it.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Well that's a horrifying thought.
BrianL - July 9, 2010
Yeah fuck that deal if so
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
Would make all kinds of sense why NY was so menstrual about Jack closing with Texas.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I can't imagine that that's a deal that the M's would have agreed to
They need Pineda
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
I'm with you on this one.
There is no way you include Pineda in a deal that sends Lee away. He’s part of the reason we can afford to trade Lee in the first place.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
Maybe they mention his name to New York. New York puts Montero, etc on the table.
We go to Texas knowing that we aren’t trading Pineda but tell them what Yankees are willing to give up. The Rangers then give us what we want.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
New York knows that we don't trade Pineda though
I mean, it’s just not reasonable for a rebuilding club to be putting its top prospects on the table. Everyone knows this.
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Well, I'm just saying
that we thought we were getting a once-in-a-lifetime steal, so it’s possible they were under the impression they were as well.
Bah, it’s irrelevant now. I cede contention of the point.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
This is what Bavasi would have done.
Sec 108 - July 9, 2010
Maybe part of doing this was taking Smoak out of the Rangers lineup for 2011 and beyond
lailaihei - July 9, 2010 via mobile
I wanted Smoak so I'm happy
ignacio - July 9, 2010
Me too. He's just one of my favorite young players in the league.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Somehow...
…this makes it better.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
The 3 other prospects are pretty unexciting
Better than the projected Hicks/Ramos deal, but not as good as one with Montero/McAllister/someone else deal.
This trade has brought me back down to Earth though, even if it’s pretty good.
Aaroniero Arruruerie - July 9, 2010
I'm surprised that we'd consider any trade of a half-season of Cliff Lee for Smoak to be just "pretty good."
If we knew nothing about the Yankee offer, we’d be completely over the moon about this.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
Truth.. That Yankees offer set the bar pretty high
Getting Smoak a week ago was a pipe dream.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Right. I'm a little surprised by the mournful mood that seems to be prevailing.
Even if the Yankees offer was exactly as reported, and as a result the Mariners didn’t pick the exactly optimal package, that shouldn’t distract from the point that the Mariners just made a magnificent trade. They just consummated a string of transactions that turned Aumont, Ramirez, and Gilies into a half-season of Cliff Lee magnificence, Justin Smoak, and three players of varying potential.
Or, to focus solely on what took place today, we traded a half-season rental of Cliff Lee and two draft picks for a young, cost-controlled switch-hitter who projects to be an excellent building block for the next several years. It very possibly could have been better, but it’s the equivalent about mourning over a lost $20 when somebody just gave you $1,000.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
I'm happy.
I feel like I might have been happier.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Precisely.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
There we go. That's the perfect thought.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I have been pulled down from levels of pure ecstacy to mere happiness
As a result I feel upset
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Yeah, that's fair.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
Yup
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
My sentiments exactly
bluemax - July 9, 2010
THE RANGERS MIGHT DO SOMETHING WITH THOSE DRAFT PICKS
JUST A QUICK SHUDDER DOWN THE SPINE THERE.
JY - July 9, 2010
They can't do anything with them if their ownership and bankruptcy doesn't get resolved.
I know it’s a year away, but who knows
Matthew - July 9, 2010
VALID POINT
I HAD BEEN HEARING PROGRESS ON THE OWNERSHIP FRONT THOUGH.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'm personally satisfied with the trade
Just tempering myself here.
Aaroniero Arruruerie - July 9, 2010
So for someone with less knowledge as others is this not a great deal? or just not as awesome as the Yankee deal, but still awesome?
MFAN - July 9, 2010
The latter.
perfectstrat - July 9, 2010
It is, apparently, debatable.
That it is awesome is not debatable.
sammy - July 9, 2010
Leuke, Lawson, and Beaven are significantly less than Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez, right?
Corco - July 9, 2010
Of course.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
But then hey Smoak.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Who knows.
Z seems like a pretty good talent evaluator so whatever.
the other side - July 9, 2010
They are also getting only a few months of Lee.
So we should expect less.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
Yes
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Significantly? I don't think so.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
That's two non-prospects and a prospect for three prospects
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Lueke has a shot
Good arm
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Aumont and Ramirez also had good arms
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
YOU HAVE A HIGHER OPINION OF RAMIREZ THAN I DO.
AUMONT ULTIMATELY DID NOT TAKE WELL TO STARTING, AND REALISTICALLY, GILLIES WAS PROBABLY A FOURTH OUTFIELDER IF IT’S A GOOD TEAM.
JY - July 9, 2010
Aumont is down, Gillies is a 4th OF, and we don't know what Ramirez will do
tait644 - July 9, 2010
HISTORIC PERFORMANCES ARE NOT ON RAMIREZ' SIDE
THE SORIANO COMPS PEOPLE WERE MAKING IN HIS CASE ALWAYS COMPLETELY IGNORED PRESENT RESULTS.
JY - July 9, 2010
Put it this way - I'd take Beavan over Aumont by a good amount, Ramirez over Lueke by a bit, and Gillies over Lawson
Similar packages, plus, SMOAK.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Minus Lowe and $2.5 mill.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Point taken
tait644 - July 9, 2010
THAT'S WHAT PUTS IT IN THE WORSE CATEGORY FOR ME.
JY - July 9, 2010
Plus a half season of Lee
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
I think Beaven is fair comparison to Aumont or Ramirez. Pick one. I don't personally think Gillies is a major leaguer like Lawson appears not to be, but Gillies is clearly the better prospect. Its slight favor to what the M's gave up, but I think we
got a fourth player today too.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
So is there a worry about taking Smoak out of Arlington and sticking him in Safeco?
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Switch hitter helps that quite a bit.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Uhh...about that
He’s going to need some serious development time against LHP. Or perhaps a platoon partner, but let’s not be hasty.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Safeco murders righties, not lefties.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT PLATOONING WITH A FIRST-YEAR PLAYER IN MOST CASES
JY - July 9, 2010
I know, hence:
I’m just saying, from his scouting reports, his SSS numbers, and anecdotally, he looks to currently be struggling with LHP. He may not in the future, but you’ll see what I mean the rest of this year.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
ANECDOTALLY, LAST YEAR SAUNDERS WAS HORRIBLE.
JUDGING PLAYERS BASED OFF OF THE FIRST FEW HUNDRED AT-BATS IS A BAD IDEA.
JY - July 9, 2010
Jeez
I get it. I agree. SSS, especially for a split, where you need more than one year. Splits are often not as bad as they appear anyways.
I’m just passing on what one of the common gripes about him is currently.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
I think Jay's all caps binge makes him sound more argumentative than he's actually being
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
ON THE PLUS SIDE, IT MAY HAVE STOPPED THE LUEKE TALK.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'M NOT TRYING TO SINGLE YOU OUT TO HARP ON YOU
YOU JUST HAPPEN TO BE BRINGING UP LARGER PLAYER EVALUATION POINTS THAT IT WOULD HELP US TO ADDRESS PUBLICLY.
JY - July 9, 2010
HUH IT ATE THE OTHER HALF OF THAT POST.
I ONLY MENTION IT BECAUSE YOU’RE BRINGING UP POINTS THAT I FIND TO PERSONALLY BE FRUSTRATING AS A PROSPECT EVALUATOR. WHEN YOU GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, VERY FEW PLAYERS ARE GOING TO PERFORM AT THEIR ESTABLISHED MAJOR LEAGUE LEVELS AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE MLB, PARTLY FOR THE GREATER TALENT AND PARTLY BECAUSE THE EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON THEM ARE SO MUCH GREATER. BEING SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT PLAYER DEVELOPMENT, IT’S FRUSTRATING TO ME TO SEE SOME ARMCHAIR SCOUT SAYING “X WILL NEVER BE A MAJOR LEAGUE HITTER” BASED OF A PALTRY FEW AT-BATS OF SAMPLING BECAUSE IT’S A LINE OF THINKING THAT IS ULTIMATELY QUITE DESTRUCTIVE.
I’M USING YOUR COMMENTS AS A SPRINGBOARD TO AIR OUT THESE THOUGHTS PUBLICLY, BUT DON’T THINK THAT I’M MAD AT YOUR OR DELIBERATELY TRYING TO START SHIT. I’M JUST TYPING IN ALL CAPS AND TRYING TO MAKE A REASONED POINT.
JY - July 9, 2010
I thought it was all caps time until Lee trade was official?
Or did I just assume incorrectly?
Patton - July 9, 2010
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
I THINK I MIGHT JUST KEEP IT ON UNTIL I’M OUT OF THIS THREAD. I MIGHT CUT IT OFF EARLY THOUGH. HAVEN’T DECIDED YET.
JY - July 9, 2010
It's time. Come back to us, Jay.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Okay, I'm done.
JY - July 9, 2010
No
You will fall in love with his swing
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Why the hell did we give up Lowe for meh covered in more meh? Smoak is exciting, but the rest of it is junk.
InSpokane - July 9, 2010
Now if only we can pry Montero out of the Yankees' hands somehow.
I want em’ both. DH and 1B combo like that.
russak - July 9, 2010
It would take Felix
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
I didn't want to be the one to say it.
You might be able to get away with Ichiro if they had a need. They don’t.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I prefer another half season of Cliff Lee.
Slow Country - July 9, 2010
I'll take Smoak happily.
Something about Montero’s bat and potential is biting at me, though
russak - July 9, 2010
It's the higher ceiling.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
And then settle for two draft picks?
You can have the picks, I’ll take Smoak.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
This is crazy.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I'm not asking anyone to agree.
I was just enormously entertained by Cliff Lee’s pitching.
Slow Country - July 9, 2010
I'm pretty satisfied with this.
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Very much so.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Wonder if any of the three could be flipped in another deal..
msb - July 9, 2010
Possibly with Branyan?
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
So, what's happening tonight, then?
aguay - July 9, 2010
Pineda, I think
theslothking - July 9, 2010
I am still furious
We had a better offer on the table and paid more to not get it.
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
We also just took a great player away from a division rival, so there is that.
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
This is how I'll view it, and be happier about it.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
Same here.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
The specifics of the deal with the Yankees were not written in stone.
Lowe + cash never came up until the deal was totally finished.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
I will just say that we didn't hear Lowe's name until the end of the announcements.
It’s entirely possible that we would have sent someone to NY as well. Actually, it seemed likely to me the whole time.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Well that's nothing more than speculation
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
While you're right, it's also clear that we don't know for certain what the deal with NY was.
I was pumped for the Montero package just like everyone else. It looked like it had the potential to put three contributing players on the team in the next year or year and a half. But it really did seem too good to be true.
Unless Cashman comes out with the phone records, we’ll likely never know the final details. Personally I’d be interested to see what the end ‘agreement’ was.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I don't think it's fair
to be furious unless you’re absolutely certain that we knew the full details of the other deal.
sammy - July 9, 2010
We are the Backwardsmen
We get good players like Figgins and League and turn them into Kraft Dinner.
Perhaps a slightly less amazing offer prevents this.
aguay - July 9, 2010
I agree if you assume that Smoak and Montero are about equal.
It seems that GMZ thinks that Smoak is considerably better though.
Slow Country - July 9, 2010
@Ken_Rosenthal #Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M's took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours...
msb - July 9, 2010
Oh no!
Aaroniero Arruruerie - July 9, 2010
AHAHA...that's funny.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
They way he fucked over the Yankees made this just a little better.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Awwww... Sorry Cashman!
Fuck off.
Oh man… there’s gonna be a fight tonight.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I would love if if this happens.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
A GM brawl would be great
ermac - July 9, 2010
Slapfight!!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
That seems about right.
Tyler - July 9, 2010
I hope Z isn't alienating teams
That could be a problem in a few years
Corco - July 9, 2010
It's one thing to fuck a team for no reason, but fucking them to get your player or whatever we did here is different.
They’d be foolish to not trade with the Mariners in the future because of something like this.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I agree with this.
You get over being angry if the other team has a player you want.
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
Nevertheless, GMs might think twice about the offers they make
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Not if they're smart
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
This is my concern as well
tait644 - July 9, 2010
And screw the Yankees -
I hope you have to face the Rangers in the ALCS and see Lee twice.
ambrosia2112 - July 9, 2010
PUMP FAKE!
w00tah - July 9, 2010
Diddums.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Quit bitching Cashman, you'll have him in 6 months.
Goose - July 9, 2010
Poor Yankees, always missing out on the great players
Zack - July 9, 2010
x
Oh, Ok.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Wasn't Colon traded to the Expos in a similar situation?
yuniform - July 9, 2010
He is being paid about $4M, right?
down to $1.5 with what the M’s tossed in?
msb - July 9, 2010
But we're paying his salary..or most of it.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
DON'T ARGUE WITH THEM
THEY’RE THE YANKEES AND THEY’RE ALWAYS RIGHT AND IF THEY AREN’T WHO CARES THEY’LL JUST THROW BAGS OF MONEY AT THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE BAGS AND BAGS OF MONEY
And BOXES and BOXES of Snickers Ice Cream Bars, which is probably more valuable anyways…
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Huh, haven't they had a rule since 2002 where 40% of privately funded stadium costs are deducted from the payroll tax?
If so the Yankees can suck it if they want to cry foul over this one.
Kermit. - July 9, 2010
We're paying the majority of his salary, so they can bite me.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
They are the Yankees. They have no claim to the excuse "We don't have the resources".
If the Yankees really wanted Lee they could have added players, money, broadway tickets or any number of things.
They are just trying to make the other team (the Mariners) look bad. The Yankees do this every single time they don’t get their way.
mark sobba - July 9, 2010
IT'S BASIC ENTITLEMENT THINKING
NY IS FULL OF IT.
JY - July 9, 2010
CONCRETE JUNGLE WHERE DREAMS ARE MADE OF THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN'T DOO-OOOOO NOW YOU'RE IN NEWWWWW YORRRRRRRK NEEEEEWWW YORRRRRRRKKKK
Decatur - July 9, 2010
SERIOUSLY, AS SOON AS THAT SONG CAME OUT MY MIND WENT
“GREAT, NOW I’M GOING TO SEE THAT IN COMMERCIALS FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS”
AT LEAST I DON’T HAVE A TV HERE. PLUS I HEAR THAT KEYS IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY COOL PERSON.
JY - July 9, 2010
She is hilariously bad at dancing and amazing at singing and piano. It's feast or famine with her talents.
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Yes
Her voice and piano skills are otherworldly.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I remember when she did the duet with Colbert on his show.
As much as I oppose the song on principle, that was pretty special.
JY - July 9, 2010
Colbert rapping was worth it.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Not just the rapping, but the content of the rapping.
JY - July 9, 2010
I never really liked that song.
the other side - July 9, 2010
It's catchy, though :(
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
I am so glad to have Met Cliff when he played in Tacoma
This is an amazing day, but glad to have had him as long as we did.
ambrosia2112 - July 9, 2010
Congratulations.
Enjoy Justin Smoak.
LiamP - July 9, 2010
Having Cliff Lee on your team, even for half a season, is a truly wonderful thing.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
It will be an MLB decree
he gets a half-season with every team from here on out to rekindle the nation’s passion in baseball
aguay - July 9, 2010
I'm fully cognizant of that fact.
Is it worth not seeing Justin Smoak’s awesome swing for 6 years? Probably not.
LiamP - July 9, 2010
Just wait for the playoffs, you might change your mind.
the other side - July 9, 2010
From Divish's Twitter:
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Divish is just my favorite.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I <3 DIVISH
JY - July 9, 2010
might they be pissed...
because they feel their deal is better, and also butt hurt because their evil empire plans of galaxial domination were thwarted? They offered up their best prospect, and he still went to a potential post-season rival.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
I'm just not that upset about losing Lowe and the $2.5M
Because, I mean how do we know Lowe is even gonna come back and be good again? And big whoop on $2.5M.
Goose - July 9, 2010
Thats a lot of hooch.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
It is, but do we know if the Lincoln/Armstrongwould spend it on the team or just pocket the extra profits?
Coug1990 - July 9, 2010
Totally agree.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
With Cleveland paying for Branyan's salary, it kind of works out to be a wash.
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
IT STINGS, BUT BASICALLY DOES NOT MATTER IN THE GREATER SCHEME OF THINGS
JY - July 9, 2010
I keep thinking of Lowe as the nice useful guy, but he is out for the season, so there is that.
the other side - July 9, 2010
This is what I thought too. Bad backs are not easy to come back from.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
USSM says Smoak > Montero
Since Beavan and McAllister are basically the same, and Leuke fits the team’s needs better than Adams, is this just a question of how you value Smoak’s defense vs. Montero’s offensive ceiling?
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
Lawson blows.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
That's why I didn't include him.
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
AT THIS POINT, I TAKE SMOAK
BECAUSE HE’S IN THE TOP TIER OF FIRST BASEMEN AND A GREAT DEFENDER AT PRESENT. MONTERO’S ULTIMATE DEFENSIVE POSITION IS AN UNKNOWN AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TOP 5-20 HITTER IN THE LEAGUE AND A POTENTIAL (KEYWORD) TOP FIVE DOESN’T SEEM LIKE IT’S WORTH FIGHTING OVER.
JY - July 9, 2010
So who's gonna be the first to buy a Smoak jersey?
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
I am really close to doing it.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Don't know his number yet.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Was wearing #12 with Rangers.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
My prediction...
Not the last deal the Mariners do. The other three guys are filler, means they have some “surplus” built up. I expect another deal like the Pirates deal last year by the trade deadline to go with Branyan.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
I expect Branyan is going to be dealt
He suddenly doesn’t really have a place anymore
Corco - July 9, 2010
in the American League...
they use the Designated Hitter.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Bradley
Corco - July 9, 2010
Bradley?
Goose - July 9, 2010
Bradley has been nursing a bad leg
msb - July 9, 2010
Branyan's easier to get rid of than Bradley.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
surprisingly...
for a guy with a wonky back, Branyan is easier to keep in the batter’s box than Bradley.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Yeah, but that salary...
Plus, having a solid DH isn’t really important for a last place team. If we could get something useful for Branyan, I don’t see why they wouldn’t trade him.
(Then again, it’s weird that they traded for him.)
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Please capitalize the start of your comments
You have a habit of not
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Sure
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
and before you say it
Muscle > GameBoard
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Bradley's untradeable.
Teej - July 9, 2010
Plus we love him and his smile more than anyone else could.
the other side - July 9, 2010
he's not...
uncuttable… and the Cubs proved last year he’s not untradeable. That’s how the Mariners got him.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
In a trade of sunk costs
The situation just happened to work for both sides. Gonna be hard as hell to replicate it.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
It worked...
because the Mariners are run by a genius. It’s possible he could do it again. Maybe not get “as good a deal”, but have it work out better than this one. Who knows?
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
This isn't the right thread to bring this up in.
Decatur - July 9, 2010
I have no doubt that Branyan is going somewhere else soon.
Or Bradley – but you can’t do much with him. You gotta open up 1B for Smoak.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Or send Smoak to AAA
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
Isn't Bradley still out?
If so, why not just end Kotchman and move Branyan to DH?
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
that's...
where they’ve been playing Branyan anyway.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Capitalise properly, please.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Thanks for the tip
Professor.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
LL rules, not the professor's.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
Didn't say otherwise...
just said thanks for the tip.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
I'm curious
Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, J.C. Ramirez
…or…
Smoak, Beavan, Lawson, Lueke.
Which group is better?
DavidSA - July 9, 2010
Smoak
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Second
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Smoak group.
Aaroniero Arruruerie - July 9, 2010
Guess!
CKremer - July 9, 2010
Smoak.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I'd trade the seven other players straight up for Smoak
Corco - July 9, 2010
That'd actually be just about fair.
Hrm
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Wow, when you put it that way.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Including Smoak in that isn't fair.
Obviously we got useful things for three months of Lee, which is really, really cool.
the other side - July 9, 2010
This is how I choose to look at this trade.
The Yankee’s may have offered a better deal, but we got a better deal than Philly did so we’re stronger now then we were before Lee. Of course that doesn’t make the loss of Lee any easier.
DavidSA - July 9, 2010
This is great, because it gives Sean White a chance to spot-start tonight.
aguay - July 9, 2010
So will Lee be making first first Rangers appearance at the ASG?
Has this happened before?
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Ha. That'd be neat.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Saturday start, I think.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Yes, Jeff Shaw in 1998
Stone wrote about it today.
drblacknwhite - July 9, 2010
correct
He was the Reds only rep at all-star game that year too. They added… drum roll… Bret Boone to the team as an injury replacement to make up for it.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Capitalize please
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
I think Beltran, too.
Someone mentioned it on a baseball broadcast the other day. Was traded from the Royals to the Mets after being named to the All-Star game, and appeared in the game as a Met.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
Astros
Teej - July 9, 2010
There's got to be some value in the Rangers not having Smoak for the next 5 and a half years.
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
Chris Davis instead?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Chris Davis sucks
BrettJMiller - July 9, 2010
Do they have any other MLB ready 1st base options?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Not quite
Mitch Moreland could theoretically be ready soon.
More likely, they’ll have to go outside the organization to address it.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
And yes, I know he sucks.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
He doesn't actually suck
Josh Wilson at 1B sucks.
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
Yeah he does.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
So...
did Texas keep Smoak in AAA long enough this season to keep his service time down?
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
yes
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
So we....
get 6.5 years then :-)
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
Looks like it
He’ll probably go Super Two, though. Still, that’s better than only five more years.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
Absolutely. I think some are overlooking this undertone to the trade.
kentroyals5 - July 9, 2010
I also wonder if the Rangers believe they'll sign him after the season.
Smoak is a really hefty price to pay for a rental. This is a big deflation of their talent pool, more than just the $$ and back-side of Lee’s career.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Only the homers
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
I'm pretty sure that's the only defence here
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Ah, yes... but what about the defenses?
thehemogoblin - July 9, 2010
Isn't it 6 and a half?
Punkhazard - July 9, 2010
I don't know, it's not like this closes the gap between the teams and there are two other teams the M's still have to be better than in the division.
I’d say the value of making a single team worse is awfully small.
Nate Dogg - July 9, 2010
Depends...
on who they get to replace him. Texas has done pretty well with first basemen over the years.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
For you Twitter guys
Lueke is on Twitter: @Josh_Lueke
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Interesting:
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Tampering!
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
With his arm slot?
Sec 108 - July 9, 2010
Well that explains Lueke's inclusion.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Trusting pitching coaches doesn't seem like the best strategy, but whatever.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Also, Lueke apparently liked Griffey as a kid
Unoriginal, but nice:
yuniform - July 9, 2010
So does Lee start tomorrow night for the Rangers instead of Harrison?
aguay - July 9, 2010
♥♥♥ You may be Cameron's #6org ♥♥♥
♥♥♥ But you’ll always be my #1. ♥♥♥
CapSea - July 9, 2010
Awww...
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Nolan Ryan
Looks smug in this press conference
ambrosia2112 - July 9, 2010
It looks like Rick Adair was Leuke's old pitching "coord"
Had a blast at the rangers game, great seats saw and talked to my old pitching coord rick adair all in all great night -via twitter
maybe they see something more in him
cedarA - July 9, 2010
David Pauley starts tonight.
Collective ugh?
w00tah - July 9, 2010
Ugh...
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I picked todays game to see Cliff Lee
And now we’re gonna see David Pauley start? Really?
cedarA - July 9, 2010
Realistically, Lee was never going to pitch for us today.
I’m a bit surprised it took this long to trade him.
Llewdor - July 9, 2010
Lame.
I want Pineda.
I Lick Squirrels - July 9, 2010
o_O
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Wow, we're gonna get shelled tonight
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Seriously, this game is going to be terrible.
cedarA - July 9, 2010
Aw :(
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
So as someone suggested above
maybe Pineda was involved in the NY deal… which is the rationale I’m going to use to make myself feel better if Montero develops into something between Pujols and Miggy Cabrera
Zack - July 9, 2010
I generally prefer my rationale to make sense
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Yeah, yeah, I know...
I just wanna be ecstatic about Smoak but it’s hard when there’s the possibility that Montero develops into a monster and we know we could have gotten him. Stupid twitter
Zack - July 9, 2010
No, there's no rational reason he was involved in the deal
Nor was he ever scratched.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
This is what happens when I buy tickets for a prospective Lee start
woooooooo
Alto - July 9, 2010
Oof.
Although I’m not sure I loved the idea of Pineda getting rushed up.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
I'll take the inevitable loss from a Pauley start than risk messing up Pineda by rushing him.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Especially since this season is down the shitter already.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
See? There's your consolation prize ya whiny Yanks.
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Sounds like Calabro is going to be airing the press conference in 10 mins
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Turn off your cell phone Ryan. Dumbass.
Goose - July 9, 2010
And in comes the informed baseball banter of Calabro & Moore
msb - July 9, 2010
Oh, lordy.
msb - July 9, 2010
Why do you keep torturing yourself in this manner?
ToddK - July 9, 2010
I was just waiting for the presser and put the earphones back in.
msb - July 9, 2010
msb is is actually Prometheus. No choice.
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Who needs a liver, anyway.
msb - July 9, 2010
I like this for its double meaning.
JY - July 9, 2010
We got two classical mythology references into these trade threads.
Go team.
JY - July 9, 2010
HAHA BONERS
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
DONGS
JY - July 9, 2010
Besides, it's not Greek mythology without someone getting their bone on.
JY - July 9, 2010
Welcome back to Seattle Ian Snell!
Robert - July 9, 2010
STARTED YESTERDAY
JY - July 9, 2010
RUh Ro???
ambrosia2112 - July 9, 2010
Fuck that
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I will kill you.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Or at the very least not save you.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
David Pauley in 5 games as a starter...
23 innings, 0-5, 9/15 BB/SO, 2.30 WHIP
aguay - July 9, 2010
Whoopdy woo. It's 23 innings.
Matthew - July 9, 2010
PSA with no comment.
I remember him looking decent in a game with the Red Sox a few years back.
aguay - July 9, 2010
Going 0-5 in 23 innings is pretty impressive
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
That should be 0-3
aguay - July 9, 2010
He should be fine.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Oh boy...
This game is going to be depressing.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Smoak in...
Is he our everyday 1B now? Branyan to DH? thoughts?
ambrosia2112 - July 9, 2010
Muscle...
was already our DH. Kotchman to complete uselessness… and just as he was starting to turn it around a little.
jameslcrockett - July 9, 2010
Someone make me feel better about waking up from a nap to what looks like a worse deal.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
SMOAK!
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Isn't as good of a bat as Montero.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
I have a hard time believing the specifics of the Montero deal were accurate or complete.
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
It didn't pass the smell test
There had to be something else, something non-negligible, coming from our end.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Sounds like we need diapers.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
The Smoak rumors weren't passing the smell test either because of Mark Lowe.
I fully believe the offer was on the table, I just think Jack might have wanted to use it as leverage.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I agree.
I don’t think it was Pineda, but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if we didn’t hear the full story on that deal.
sammy - July 9, 2010
This is why getting all worked up over trade rumors is a bad idea
You’re operating on incomplete/potentially false information. I’d think if they had the Montero/Adams/McAllister deal on the table with no other players included, they easily take it over what the Rangers offered, because it’s clearly better to even a casual observer. That they didn’t probably suggests that wasn’t the extent of the deal.
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
Smoak is a better all-around player.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I don't think you can say that.
Until they’ve both actually played in the majors. Smoak appears to be a much better fit for our team.
cedarA - July 9, 2010
If you're one of the people that believe that minor league performance doesn't have predictive value, I can't help you
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
I meant that while Montero has more potential/higher ceiling.
I thought it was agreed that Smoak is ready now, is a natural first baseman, switch hitter (fits to safeco better).
cedarA - July 9, 2010
Smoak's ready now, but who cares?
Montero isn’t that far from ready. People are acting like Montero is some guy hacking away in A ball. He’ll be ready to contribute at the major league level next year.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
And struggle initially and be nearly excommunicated from the Holy House that Ruth built?
JY - July 9, 2010
Josh Wilson!
MT Olson - July 9, 2010
Correct
But I also feel like something was missing in the NYY deal.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
I'm having difficulty evaluating this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Montero’s ceiling appears to be higher, but players don’t always hit their ceilings. Smoak has the advantages of switch-hitting, defense, and having an established position. Right?
I’m a just a little wary of falling completely in love with ceiling without paying attention to probably outcomes, and from the little I’m able to understand it seems that Smoak is a surer bet.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
It's just that Montero has a chance to become Miguel Cabrera with maybe more power.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Certainly if anybody's ceiling is worth falling in love with, it's Montero's.
And high ceilings are so, so sexy.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
Well that seems... completely wrong.
I get that Montero has great power but Miguel Cabrera nearly hit a ball out of Safeco earlier this year.
Nate Dogg - July 9, 2010
Hey guess what Montero is an 80 on the scouting scale.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
What was/is Cabrera?
Nate Dogg - July 9, 2010
Not 80?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
It's hard to wrap heads around this sort of stuff because Cabrera is a freak.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Yeah, it's hard for me to take a projection like that seriously because, yeah sure maybe someday, but to expect someone to have more functional power than Cabrera seems almost impossible.
Nate Dogg - July 9, 2010
Miggy would have been around 65-70ish, I imagine
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
70 is generally the top grade given, right?
Nate Dogg - July 9, 2010
The scale goes from 20-80
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
But yeah, 80 is clearly not something handed out lightly.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
It happens almost never, as we've said.
Montero and Harper were the only ones Graham or I could remember.
JY - July 9, 2010
Montero has as much or more power than anyone in baseball
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
I did not realize this was the case.
You are making me sad, which is odd considering we just traded for a player I never dreamed was in our range.
sammy - July 9, 2010
This is how quite a few people are feeling
Especially weird since I’ve lusted hard after Smoak for quite a while.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
More than Mike Stanton?
I Lick Squirrels - July 9, 2010
From what I've heard, yes
Obviously I am not a scout, etc
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Smoak just isn't the hitting prospect that Montero is, in my mind.
First base defense is nice but not THAT important, and you can only be so risk-averse if you’re going to build a great team.
I need to spend more time looking into the other prospects we got, but I don’t like it as much as the Yankees deal that apparently ran into a snag over Adams’ injury?
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
You know more about prospects than I do, so I have no ammunition with which to craft a convincing argument.
On one point, though – you say “First base defense is nice but not THAT important.”
Not necessarily related to Smoak/Montero, but isn’t the mantra that a run saved is a run saved regardless of position? I thought I understood that a +5 1B is as valuable as a +5 SS, but that it’s harder to make that difference at a position on the lower side of the defensive spectrum. I just remember USSM/LL dismissing people who didn’t think that Sexson’s defensive hackery at 1B was particularly important.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
That's true, but first basemen get many less opportunities than most other defensive positions.
It’s a nice value-add to an already good player. It’s not something you acquire a player for.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
Right - just trying to make sure I'm thinking of these things in the right way.
Chris Hafner - July 9, 2010
In 2011 the Rangers will have neither Cliff Lee or Justin Smoak. And we will have Justin Smoak.
Forget all the other bullshit and just focus on that.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Texas, no Smoak
Mariners, SMOAK!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
We now have a cornerstone MOTO bat at a position of need who is under club control for six years.
He is also unlikely to experience a Safeco Swoon due to switch-hittingness, and we won’t experience a big drop-off in 1B defense from Kotchman, meaning we can keep Branyan or trade him as we wish.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
The Rangers, who look like the best baseball team in the West for the next several years...
just traded a division rival one of their best young talents for a rental player and a bad back reliever. I just think the “making the Rangers of the future worse” angle is being played down in this. If you suppose the front office thinks the Rangers are the front runners in the division going forward, hurting them and getting better at the same time seems to make more sense then just fleecing the Yankees. Or not fleecing the Yankees, since we don’t know what else was included in that deal.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
Amen.
Well put.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Though to be fair to the Rangers
they are not idiots and they don’t know what 2011 will bring. They have a legitimate shot at their first World Series this year and doing everything they can to win it is not a bad plan, even if it harms them next year and the year after.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
Rings do some great things money wise and attendance wise.
The money they get from a WS win probably makes this worth it.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Their goal is to win for the city/state.
They can do that here. That’s not nothing.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
Fuck, then we become the only AL team without a pennant.
the other side - July 9, 2010
That's the only aspect of this that is making me feel better, really, and it's why I don't really see why this makes sense for the Rangers.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
They want a World Series
And expect to face the Yankees in the post season. Cliff Lee owns the Yankees.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
Cliff Lee owns everyone, but valid point.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I don't think Cliff Lee gets them to the World Series
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
I don't either
Though it certainly improves their chances quite a bit.
They have a very good offense, defense and bullpen. It was the starting pitching that was the problem.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Sure
But he couldn’t hurt their chances.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
Realistically, though
The Rangers will probably raise their salary from that of a bottom 5 club, whenever it is that this ownership mess gets sorted out. At that point, I expect them to pursue a 1B either through trade or FA and give extensions to players like Elvis.
My point is that, while this hurts quite a bit, they’ll still be a talented team with money to spend in the next couple of years.
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Pinstripe Alley:
aguay - July 9, 2010
Fuck them.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Yes, in the fantasyland where Montero is a catcher.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Nice work.
JY - July 9, 2010
Maybe he meant on pick-offs
Zack - July 9, 2010
I doubt Cliff would through a pickoff to the dugout :P
joof - July 9, 2010
Like there's ever anyone for Cliff Lee to pick off.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Unless they meant Lee signs with someone else and owns the Yankees.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
This is basically how the Yankees fan mind operates.
JY - July 9, 2010
It's probably hard to be sad when your smart, spendy behemoth just keeps on rolling.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
They basically have adopted the "well fuck that guy" approach whenever anything does not go their way.
With a dash of “we’ll get x anyway!”
JY - July 9, 2010
Yep
The comment during Josh Hamilton’s HR Derby at Yankee Stadium was something like “Yankee fans are cheering because they know he’ll be a Yankee in a few years anyways!”
GhettoBear04 - July 9, 2010
Get raped by a wolverine.
Fuckers.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I'm sure they'll face each other some time during their careers.
Maybe even in 2011, if Montero makes the bigs and Lee is still pitching in the American League.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
So now Russel Branyan is just eye candy?
E2ESQUARE - July 9, 2010
But what eye candy he is!
JY - July 9, 2010
If I had a choice I'd say Kotchman.
Even though I really wanted him to succeed.
TWownsU - July 9, 2010
Maybe trade-bait for SF?
They wanted a lefty hitter who wouldn’t cost ML talent, or at least that’s what I remember reading on MLBTR.
I’m ambivalent on trading or keeping him.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Kotchman seems the most superfluous now
I don’t think we could expect much in return, but we might be able to get something that makes up for what we gave up to get Branyan.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
Or he's a DH.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
But I like Milton and Saunders too.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Branyan is a better hitter than Milton at this point.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Or, yeah, Branyan could generate some interest like he did last year.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Smoak to Tacoma solves all these problems
Matthew - July 9, 2010
I suppose it does but then :(
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Probably better for him and for us though
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
But how will he get any time with Carp blocking him there
Coug1990 - July 9, 2010
Bradley is broken right now.
InSpokane - July 9, 2010
Given park adjustments,
Smoak still doesn’t measure out as a better hitter than Montero?
sammy - July 9, 2010
No
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Nope.
Montero had only one opposite field home run all of last season, but he has the kind of power where not even Safeco Field will really affect him all that much. He might lose a few at the track, but that’s about it.
JY - July 9, 2010
Do you have any idea what Nick Johnsons offensive ceiling was like when he was a top prospect for the Yankees?
I address this to anyone else too by the way.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Approach and patience were his calling cards.
He was #1 prospect for BA three years running, but there wasn’t anyone who was making claims that he had 80 power. That’s a claim that’s almost never made.
JY - July 9, 2010
And he really is a good hitter, he's just incapable of staying healthy.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I've heard of two, I think
Harper and Montero
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Those were the two I think I've heard, ever.
JY - July 9, 2010
I want my Jesus
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
"Jesus gonna be heeeeeeeeeeere, he gonnna be here thoon."
(two off-beat guitar strums)
JY - July 9, 2010
Hmmm, which he still does very well. I am a Nick Johnson fan myself, just not sure if he was lacking in a department that we thought he would have.
I guess that’s more of Kotchmans M.O.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Curious.
Anyone know what Sexson’s power grade was back in his hey-day?
katal - July 9, 2010
Close to 80, I think.
JY - July 9, 2010
Please help explain the difference
between a 75 power grade and 80?
eknpdx - July 9, 2010
5
CapSea - July 9, 2010
5
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
You lose, fuckers.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
:(
:(
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
5 points.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Difference between Mark Teixeira and
Ryan Howard I believe. Howard being the 80.
Patton - July 9, 2010
Nicely played.
JY - July 9, 2010
Thank you, that clears it up
eknpdx - July 9, 2010
Thanks!
katal - July 9, 2010
Thanks.
katal - July 9, 2010
On what station website can I listen to the press conference?
Bicycle Rider - July 9, 2010
The Ms official site will have it
msb - July 9, 2010
Great, thanks.
Bicycle Rider - July 9, 2010
Jay, what do you know about the other guys in the deal, if anything?
I’m not finding a whole lot.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
Lawson looks like AAA fodder!
abender20 - July 9, 2010
It's been partially addressed elsewhere.
Beavan was a top prep prospect who had mechanical adjustments that cost him some velocity. Incredible command, not a lot in the way of Ks at the moment. He’s like Fister except that he has some potential to add velocity down the road and is a bit bigger.
Leuke has a questionable background, but powerful stuff and could easily replace Lowe as far as our system depth go.
Lawson is basically some guy who hits respectably and seems capable of providing above-average defense at second. He’s partly insurance if Ackley doesn’t work out, I would say. More likely he’s a future utility at best.
JY - July 9, 2010
Alright, thanks Jay!
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
So... 2011
Ichiro – RF
Chone – 3B
Ackley – 2B
Smoak – 1B
Guti – CF
Saunders – LF
Moore – C
Wilson – SS
? – DH
Just got a bit more promising I think.
the other side - July 9, 2010
This might be September's lineup.
w00tah - July 9, 2010
DH - Muscle?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Thought it was a 1 year contract?
the other side - July 9, 2010
There's an option.
Likely to get exercised.
misterjonez - July 9, 2010
Picking it up would save us the trouble of having to trade for him again next July.
Floyd Gondoli - July 9, 2010
There's some sort of option
cedarA - July 9, 2010
I think he has an option for 5 million
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
If I remember correctly
There’s a $5 mil option for next year.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Well then insert him at four and I begin to like it a bit.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I'm still scared of his back though.
Every time he swings, I think it might go out. But yes, he’d be serviceable in the four-hole next year.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Put it this way Branyan or a Branyan type player with 5 million spent on that position.
the other side - July 9, 2010
We always have Bradley tied up if Branyan goes down.
katal - July 9, 2010
Sounds kinky.
katal - July 9, 2010
Woo?
I’ve lost confidence in Bradley :(
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I'd trade him again if given the chance. He should be somewhat sought after near the deadline if he keeps hitting.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I can't imagine he'd bring back anything more than maybe a C prospect
Or am I off base with that assumption?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Don't look at me, but if he's not part of the future then you may as well go fori t.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Depends on who else is available.
He’s shown he’s healthy and can still hit, who knows what Z can get.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Very true.
And a $5 mil option for next year would be attractive for anyone looking to trade for him. SF perhaps?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Woudn't it have maybe made sense to include him in this trade to Texas?
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
Maybe.
And maybe Texas wasn’t interested in him. I believe that Branyan and Chris Davis are fairly similar players.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
They don't need him as far as I can tell.
And with their financial situation it was probably in their best interest to keep the trade as tidy as possible.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Branyan's salary is being paid for by the Indians this year.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
To the M's. They could have kept the money the Indians gave them and traded Branyan anyway.
thehemogoblin - July 9, 2010
Ah well fuck.
Shows how much I know about MLB salaries.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I wouldn't mind another catching prospect
Matt Erickson - July 9, 2010
Deadline tradebait I think
It’s gettng crowded around first base, and Saunders is looking too valuable to not have in left. That doesn’t leave a lot of room for Bradley and Branyan will have value at the deadline.
Drew_D - July 9, 2010
Bradley, last I heard, is still injured.
But you do make a solid point.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Presser time
Here
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Thanks for the link
More rec for you
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Just when I was thinking of leaving the cafe.
JY - July 9, 2010
Jack's coming off defensive against the NY media.
JY - July 9, 2010
He really wasn't happy about them.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
I don't blame him.
JY - July 9, 2010
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
royalcurve - July 9, 2010
How was the nap?
JY - July 9, 2010
Now that he's gone I feel I can say this freely.
I have always thought Mark Lowe sucked and I hated watching him.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
Liberating, isn't it?
I think a lot of the goodwill towards Lowe as based off his original debut.
JY - July 9, 2010
Packaging him with the deal makes this deal better than if he was not a part of it.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
I'm tempted to agree.
There’s a strong likelihood that this doesn’t end up going the way the Rangers would want it to.
JY - July 9, 2010
How long is he under club control?
Plus the injury thing.
the other side - July 9, 2010
This was his first year of arbitration.
So two, I think.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'm starting to feel better about this trade.
the other side - July 9, 2010
He was so filthy that season before being called up.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Yeah, so.
I’ll give a bunch of rec’s to anyone who can make me a good LOST-Smoak Monster .gif.
katal - July 9, 2010
What about a Smoaky the bear?
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
That sounds like Scruffy Work.
JY - July 9, 2010
I want to see him put out the fires that a cracked out Josh Hamilton started
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
?
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Needs a baseball glove or something.
thehemogoblin - July 9, 2010
That's the only one I could find while doing a Google search.
I’d like to see it blasting out of the forest, angry, with the name “Smoak” displayed prominently.
katal - July 9, 2010
Well then this isn't what you're looking for
Smokey is going the other way, though.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
Smoak... Smoak...
Are you Smoaking yet?
supershane - July 9, 2010
It's been done, but thanks.
JY - July 9, 2010
Smoak won't be here until tomorrow, at least.
aguay - July 9, 2010
The Smoak puns are really going to get old
But I really hope Feierabend makes the team next year. Sportswriters will love that shit.
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
Isn't it pronounced Fear-abend?
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
Roughly, yes.
JY - July 9, 2010
Is that gonna stop anybody from using it?
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
It's always party night with Feierabend.
thehemogoblin - July 9, 2010
Nice work.
JY - July 9, 2010
I think I might go out for a cigarette after the presser is done.
HAY GUYZ GUESS WHAT I’LL BE DOING WITH THAT CIGARETTE?
JY - July 9, 2010
Inhaling?
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Getting lung cancer?
the other side - July 9, 2010
Lighting it?
Sucking on it?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Enjoying smooth flavor of Laramie cigarettes
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Question mark
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
It's actually a leftover pack of cloves, but whatever.
JY - July 9, 2010
You hipster, you.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
I've moved on to American Spirits as my go-to, so I've maintained some of my street cred.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'm disappointed in all of you.
Not one of you suggested that I would be eating it.
JY - July 9, 2010
I watched a woman do that at a party.
Fucking nasty
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
This is an excellent stand-alone comment.
Decatur - July 9, 2010
Fisting it?
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
Appropriate response for beer, but no.
JY - July 9, 2010
More interesting than bLoweing Smoak am I rite?
ThundaPC - July 9, 2010
It makes me Leuke cool.
JY - July 9, 2010
Lueke.
That’s going to take some getting used to.
JY - July 9, 2010
Jack really likes consemating things
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Wut?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Hard to confirm
He’s only got one kid.
yuniform - July 9, 2010
I never said that he succeeds
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
Cliff's gonna speak at the presser
WATCH NOW.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Cliff will be on the presser shortly, it seems.
Parting glances…
aguay - July 9, 2010
His flight is in a hour and a half :(
Who wants to go send him off? Hugs?
aguay - July 9, 2010
I'm happy in part because the Yankees would have made him shave.
JY - July 9, 2010
DAMNIT CLIFF DON'T LEAVE ME
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
LOCK THE DOORS
aguay - July 9, 2010
LEEve
beastwarking - July 9, 2010
He sounds sad.
InSpokane - July 9, 2010
He's still sort of smiling?
JY - July 9, 2010
On occasion. When someone asks a dumb question.
InSpokane - July 9, 2010
I think you're projecting because he looked like he was hiding back his happiness.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
This is making me sad :(
I wanted this to be like ripping off a band-aid.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
God Cliff Lee just seems like such a cool dude and is an amazing pitcher
I’m going to miss him so much :(
ungoreatstefan - July 9, 2010
He's probably the only person I know who could make "I'm a Ranger now" sound vaguely cool.
JY - July 9, 2010
.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
I couldn't remember him saying that but the possibility is open.
I only hope that this does not spawn a “Cliff Lee Facts” meme.
JY - July 9, 2010
You just blew my fucking mind.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I just want to hang out with him and have him teach me about life
We could drink beer together, maybe go to a concert, maybe hold hands and watch the sunset.
ungoreatstefan - July 9, 2010
I think he should take up the guitar.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'm sure he's already excellent at the guitar
I mean, Cliff Lee.
HititHere - July 9, 2010
And what a singing voice, I mean seriously.
JY - July 9, 2010
YOU GET THE FUCK OFF, HES MINE
the other side - July 9, 2010
Realistically you can have him
I just know he would break my heart in the worst way.
ungoreatstefan - July 9, 2010
Listening to Jack....
sounds like he thinks Smoak needs some AB’s in AAA….or at least he’s laying the foundation to justify sending him to AAA.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
Anyone know his super two status off-hand?
JY - July 9, 2010
Long ways from that....
He wouldn’t even have 1 year after this season. This is all free time at the moment.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
I know that.
I merely raise it as a suggestion because I think it might factor into Jack’s decision-making there.
JY - July 9, 2010
If he never gets sent down to the minors, wouldn't he be almost assured of being a super-two?
He just missed the cut-off by maybe 10 or 12 days this year, so by 2013, he’ll have two years plus about 160 days. I think that would just about clinch it for him.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
I think so.
JY - July 9, 2010
Cliff Lee pitching for the Rangers may aid us in the Rendon sweepstakes.
JY - July 9, 2010
We're not getting Rendon
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
Cole then.
Fuck the Yankees twice over.
JY - July 9, 2010
Double fucked!
abender20 - July 9, 2010
I wish, but shit the Orioles are putrid.
abender20 - July 9, 2010
Seriously, we have to really suck it up to reach that level.
the other side - July 9, 2010
It's unrealistic.
The Orioles could call up Tillman though.
JY - July 9, 2010
In that case I hope the entire team contracts AIDS and those who have it get rabies.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Wasn't he up earlier this year?
Or was that last year?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Yes.
JY - July 9, 2010
Uhh... to which question?
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
That was my way of saying that both were accurate.
JY - July 9, 2010
Tricky tricky.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Positives!!
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Quit asking fucking Yankees questions!
BigR - July 9, 2010
Lee looks all muscle-y in that t-shirt, what a babe.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Damn....
Jack just said on KIRO that Cortes was throwing 99 the other day.
I know Cortes has no clue where the ball is going, but we got him for Yuni.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
In his last five starts....
Cortes has had good to great command in three and walked seven in two.
JY - July 9, 2010
Fucking hilarious.
We got a living breathing player for Yuni.
the other side - July 9, 2010
We used to have two.
JY - July 9, 2010
Did Saito die?
abender20 - July 9, 2010
He hasn't pitched all season, it's possible.
JY - July 9, 2010
Stick him in the pen.
At WTN, I mean. He’s never gonna be a starter. We can hope for David Aardsma.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
See my comment about about his last five starts.
Most of the season, I would agree with you. Now, I’m wondering a bit.
JY - July 9, 2010
Smile for a smile(?)
aguay - July 9, 2010
Make those spin and we'll talk.
JY - July 9, 2010
The non-smoakies are all going to WTN....
So are we reasonably certain that Ackley is headed to Tacoma?
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
If you're assuming that Lawson to West Tenn.
It’s possible he could end up in High Desert for a little while. Their infield has been hurting lately.
JY - July 9, 2010
Accoring to the Omnipotent one...
all 3 are going to WTN.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
Not surprising really.
The Jaxx have really be struggling with their pitching lately since Pineda was called up. This gives the double-A team a better chance to compete. Just saying.
JY - July 9, 2010
I was looking forward to seeing Lee off at Safeco today.
And now MLB.com lists David Pauley as the probable.
Sigh…
Jeremariner - July 9, 2010
I work next door to a bar
And right as I was leaving a friend of mine who works there came in and told me the trade to Texas. My first thought was no, not Texas, ANYONE but Texas (even the Yankees would have been better), but my second thought was if they did trade him to a division rival, they had to have gotten an absolute pile in return. I’m not looking forward to Lee pitching against the Mariners this year, which is all but assured with him going to a division rival. Chances are probably good he’ll pitch in Seattle some time, which is gonna suck. I was hoping for Smoak and Saltalamacchia to be among the haul if the trade was with Texas. I trust Zdurencik enough that these three other guys are potential stars, so this could wind up being a great, great trade.
Aly Edge - July 9, 2010
None of the other players are potential stars.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
No, probably not
I’d rather have had Salt than the other three, but I guess our farm system isn’t exactly brimming with depth at the moment and some more low MLB-level/ high AAA-level talent helps. This also gives us something else to include as secondary pieces in any other trade we go after.
Tophawkeye - July 9, 2010
Where's the Salt love coming from?
Salty and Chris Davis could take turns keeping each other cool with how often they fan.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Then why this particular trade?
Or is that what everyone’s asking?
Aly Edge - July 9, 2010
SMOAK
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Lee will get a standing ovation after 1-hitting the M's at Safeco in September
Count on it.
HititHere - July 9, 2010
Smoak will get the hit.
aguay - July 9, 2010
Can't decide if I would rather have been here for this mess or not
I left thinking the Yankees had him and we had an awesome deal. I’m having trouble processing this all at once.
I think Beaven is as good as McAllister, personally. Leuke certainly runs some sick K rates and could be in our pen next year. Still prefer the Yankees deal but it’s easy to be allured by the huge potential of Montero.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
Dave and Churchill both seem to prefer this deal, interestingly.
A lot of people like Smoak more than Montero (including, I would assume, Z), despite Montero being much higher ranked as a prospect.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
I'm also in that boat.
It’s strange because the three of us aren’t generally in agreement, I don’t think.
JY - July 9, 2010
Blah.
The longer I look at Beavan’s K rate, the less I like this trade (compared to the original).
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
Well...
McAllister’s K rate was bad as well and Beaven walks less and seems to get more groundballs.
I’d say Beaven > McAllister.
PLU Tim - July 9, 2010
Yes.
JY - July 9, 2010
That is just it, Montero was ranked higher by sportswriters
Obviously, the Mariners scouts and Z have different ideas.
Coug1990 - July 9, 2010
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