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Lookout Landing

Cliff Lee, Mark Lowe Traded To Texas

Joel Sherman's been the go-to guy here all along, and so:

i have learned deal done with #Rangers, Smoak and 3 others for Lee and reliever Mark Lowe #Rangers, #Mariners

Time to think for a while.

Matthew's Update: Trade confirmed by Ken Rosenthal. I could have hoped as much as possible, but hope does not change the underlying facts and the lay of the situation and the circumstances of where the Mariners found themselves both this year and in 2011 made trading Lee almost a necessity. That necessity has been borne out and Cliff Lee is headed out. We now have secondary confirmation that Zduriencik has traded Lee to the Rangers along with Mark Lowe.

To Cliff, I hope you think well of us as you pack your locker. I certainly would not mind if you gave some thought to returning with a free agent contract. For now, so long and thanks for the memories.

Further Update:

The complete return appears to be:

23 year old switch-hitting 1B Justin Smoak
21 year old righty SP Blake Beavan
24 year old righty 2B Matt Lawson
25 year old righty RP Josh Lueke

0 recs  |  989 comments

Comments

Time to wait and see what the 3 others are.
This is so weird
The feelings I am experiencing now

Are remarkably similar to how I felt the day Griffey retired.

Funny I feel the same way I did when we traded FOR Lee
I was more relieved at that point.

I am genuinely excited to get Smoak.

The Smoak Monster and 3 Others
Why exactly would the Rangers want someone with a bad back
Hes from Texas?
I guess it means we're getting Scheppers ;)
I'm guessing it has something to do with money.

But that’s all I’ve got right now.

I want the return, but losing Lee still makes me cry.
well not to be rude

but you guys were going nowhere this year and not signing him, so seems like a win

He's amazing to watch.
o i know, seen plenty of him
Capitalization, spelling, and all that is appreciated.
thanks for contributing to the discussion
These are rules at LL.
So please capitalize.
You underestimate the impact performances like his can have on a fanbase during a season like this.
That does not mean we should be happy that Cliff Lee is no longer on our team.
Ok, Joel - so spill on the others!
Rosenthal just confirmed

We’re sending cash too

Awwww...

I liked Mark Lowe :(

Smoak > Montero?
I would say yes but I suppose most others disagree
Montero's ceiling > Smoak's ceiling

However, Smoak > Montero right now. And Smoak’s floor is much greater than Montero’s.

By “greater floor” I presume you mean Smoak’s floor is higher?

Subject line please
Sorry
That's ok! Just letting ya know
I do know!

I just haven’t been too active here lately.

Yes

There is a greater chance Montero flames out than Smoak. Or Montero could become a DH only. There’s more risk involved with him.

Yes

He’s probably going to be an above average defender with more experience.

I hate you guys

Promise to be kind to Smoaky. He’s a wonderful, wonderful man who deserves your adoration.

You better not break Cliff!!!

And you might as well win the goddamn world series while you’re at it.

I can almost guarantee he will receive an alarming amount of adoration.
Yes, I have a bad feeling the Rangers will feel this for the next 5 years
but if the rangers win this year their fans wont care much

and the rangers are a pretty good bet right now

Use proper capitalization and punctuation please.
Rosenthal saying it is confirmed.
I don't see how Smoak fits in this roster with Kotchman entrenched as our everyday first baseman.
Good point... Smoak will clearly be flipped to bring back Yuni and Willie Ballgame!
Really?

If we could get Kila, Gordon, and Greinke, I’d be for it.

Honestly,

you don’t have to include Greinke before it becomes a really tough proposition.

So who is Justin Smoak bringing in to the club?
So can we fuck up this thread too?
YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

This is a gutsy trade

Within division and whatnot

Would it be a fair to assume that we are getting more because its a trade within the division?
BY CLIFF WE'LL MISS YOUR SEXY OWNAGE.

BUT WHAT WE GET BACK FOR YOU IS IMPORTANT TO US.

Depending on who those three are, I'm quite pleased we've chosen to dig into the Rangers stock.
So... 3 others.

Gotta think a catcher (Salty?) Pitcher (Holland? Perez? Harden? for salary) and something else? I have no idea – but you gotta think Salty or Teagarden or Ramirez is in there.

Bullpen help?
Can only mean Feliz!
Teej mentioned it in the last thread, but the Rangers would be out of their gourds to trade Smoak Holland and Perez.
If Perez is included

You might want to avoid Seattle for a bit as I imagine there will be an inordinate number of LSB prospect gurus tearing down Safeco…as soon as they finish with JD’s office.

WHO ARE THE OTHER THREE?
HAHAHAHA!
Buster_ESPN The Yankees and Mariners had actually had an agreement-in-principle, based on the physicals — and SEA stepped away, which is all fair game.
FUCK THE BANKEES
Absolutely... while I would have loved Montero I want no part of helping them win a damn thing.
AND NOW WE CAN RAPE AND PILLAGE TEXAS
DUDE YOU FORGOT TO REPLACE THE 'S' WITH A DOLLAR SIGN
This is almost the best part of this whole trade is that we fucking Indiangave him to the Yankees!
The Yankees got outbid by a bankrupt team with no owners.

That should make for some fun copy in New York.

Already happened.
Fuck Yo Couch, 'Brenner!!!
Post updated.
Can't wait to see what number he's going to wear so I can order my jersey
Ok.

THIS is going to be in my head the rest of the day.

Smoke on the Water was there for me for a while, predictably.

but it was replaced by this.

At least it's not

THIS

not sure why it was the first thing to come to my mind.

Looks like we kicked in 2.5mil for a better package
B&S

says Olney

Smoak's wikipedia page is now in Mariners colors
Wikipedia is fucking fast.
Wikipedia wouldn't update until a press release.

I think its Robert. Robert or Scruffy.

Not me.

I updated the Felix page regarding the Extension but it took till May.

Who does these things?
Reverted to Rangers!
21:36, 9 July 2010 Muboshgu (talk | contribs) (8,800 bytes) (Reverted to revision 372645348 by Giants27; No trade has been finalized. (TW)) (undo)
THANK GOD IT WASN'T THE CRANKEES

It would have hurt so badly to see him in a New York uniform.

Plus, SMOAK! Fuck yeah.

It will be interesting to see if he chooses to stay with Texas

or if this is just postponing the inevitable.

There's a much greater than zero chance

The Rangers ownership situation is still being worked out this offseason.

He could very well get lit up with the HR ball as well

A number of fly balls have died at the track at the Safe that won’t in Arlington.

Lit up may be strong language, but it’s not likely that he does as well

True

But he’ll have a better offense supporting him. It’s been more wet than hot and dry this summer, so the ‘jet stream’ hasn’t had quite as big of an effect…yet.

Still, it doesn’t matter how much you like the Rangers defense, he’s going to a much worse environment to pitch in.

I'm resisting the urge to be sad about Lee

Yay for Smoak but…I just…I’m confused.

Nah, be sad. It sucks that this is a business but that should not stop loving watching the guy play.
YESSSSSSSSS.......BITCHESSSSSSSSSSS!
It's on ESPN News right now
Oh nevermind they just announced it, no details
And now Buster Olney is on
Still no names besides the 3 we know

Seattle kicking in $2.5 million

Whoever is in charge of the Z banner...

HANG THAT SHIT UP AGAIN

I SWEAR I WILL NOT BURN YOU
No kidding

what a way to drive up the price!

I WILL HANG IT UP ON SATURDAY SINCE I AM MISSING TODAY'S GAME BECAUSE MY FAVORITE BAND IS PLAYING A CONCERT TONIGHT
and by BITCHESSSSS.......i mean the yankees.
There's a surprise.

Also please use proper capitalisation (ironic, I know) in the future.

MOTHER FUCKING YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Best of all?

HAHAHAH FUCK YOU ANGELS!

This shit is insane.
On a scale of 1 to suicial, how upset do you think Yankee fans are?
2. They'll get him in the offseason and are still the best team
Head in oven.

 http://twitter.com/ShadiestNucca
  
“Fuck you Mariners you fucking fucks,,,fuck you you fucking fucksticks. #yankees #mariners "

That just made my day.
THIS IS BEAUTIFUL
LEE-BRON JAMES!
from the Dallas radio
Smoak, Leuke, Lawson, plus 1 more
WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE PEOPLE

WHO THE FUCK CARES JUSTIN SMOAK WOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I care because if there's not another + prospect in there I'd rather have the Yankees offer
THEN YOU BETTER HOPE FOR THE THIRD PLAYER TO BE +
I AM BEING COMPLETELY RATIONAL RIGHT NOW
INFO QUICKLY SOMEONE ON THESE NAMES. IM UNFAMILIAR
WHERE'S JY!?!?!
I'M HERE, GIMME A MINUTE
NOT TOP TEN PROSPECTS APPARENTLY
FIRST INFO: LEUKE IS 25 AND HARDLY HAS ANY INNINGS PITCHED IN THE MINORS THOUGH THEY ARE GOOD I GUESS?
LAWSON IS 24 YEAR OLD 2ND BASEMAN IN AA.
Who isn't much of a hitter.
Leuke's a decent relief prospect.

Career was put on hold because, I shit you not, he was accused of rape while at Bakersfield. He throws 94-97 with a low 80’s slider.

Lawson’s nobody.

This fucking sucks.
But hey, SMOAK!!!
WAIT THOUGH. They have one more pitcher to name and they got a shitload of good pitchers. Including ones that could be PTBNL.
SCHEPPERS IS A PTBNL AT THIS POINT
DOWN BELOW THEY SAY BEAVEN! NOT BAD!
You got Justin Smoak.

You should be doing handstands and humping parking meters.

IT IS HARD TO DO THAT AND TYPE AT THE SAME TIME BUT I WILL TRY
Jesus Montero, son.
~.355 wOBAr right now

for Smoak

Over 275 PAs, that means jack shit
Ok

Just trying to point out that he’s not as bad at the MLB level as his surface numbers look. I could have just posted his LD% and BABIP I s’pose.

THAT FUCKING SUCKS

I WAS EXPECTING WAY BETTER.

Who are Leuke and Lawson?
I DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE
Don't know any of those names - but I don't follow TEX farm system

The plus 1 more thing is intriguing – could be a Scheppers PTBNL until September (year after the signed)

What the hell is a Leuke
He is your father.
He raped someone

google it

Hopefully it was a pitcher.
And not a catcher
Nope

The Rangers had to put him on a different team as part of an agreement with the law there.

Like Rothlesburger-raped or actually convicted of rape?
Been discussed other places on the thread.

Subthread closed.

Some bloody bugger
HOW THE FUCK WOULD THEY KNOW
THOSE SOUND LIKE MADE UP NAMES
ITS SPELLED LUEKE
Josh Lueke, reliever
WHO THE SHIT?
Meh. Was hoping for more with the other three
105.3

is a bullshit station with no credibility. I wouldn’t bet on this being true.

Good to know,
If this is true I will be upset we didn't take the Yankees offer.
Yeah, we seemed to be getting more from NY.
It's probably not true
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Would have rather us traded him to the Yankees instead.

Sounds like he is going there eventually and I don’t want to help the Rangers win the pennant and leave us as the only team in the league without one.

So Smoak

plus 2 meh and a potential middle ot back of the rotation SP that just got promoted to AAA

So.....does Smoak head to Tacoma? Does Bradley go away? Branyan traded again?
Saunders back to AAA?
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN
No. Probably bad news for Bradley
Cutting Kotchman makes way more sense.
Kotchman is still on the team.

No point in having 3 first basemen

Jon Morosi tweeted.

 
#Mariners getting Smoak, two pitchers and one position player, source says. #Rangers #MLB

That means they owe us a good fucking pitcher.
Caller is worried that this strengthens the Rangers.

and makes the Rangers a money-making machine.

Caller should kill themself.
Caller is worried that too much cocaine is bad for health
My fellow AL westerners...

Please.. please be good to Justin…

Please.. please be good to Justin…On this day, the Ranger fanbase has had their heart broken.

Please.. please be good to Justin…On this day, the Ranger fanbase has had their heart broken.So as much as we compete with eachother and hope for the demise of one another…

Please.. for us.. be good to him..

Please.. for us.. be good to him..tears

We will be.

And you will LOVE Lee. He has made me fall in love with baseball in a way I didn’t know was possible.

Lee is amazing

it is an honor to root for a team he pitches for

You might win the World Series, though.
My fellow AL westerners...

Please.. please be good to Cliff…

Please.. please be good to Cliff …On this day, the Mariner fanbase has had their heart broken.

Please.. please be good to Cliff…On this day, the Mariner fanbase has had their heart broken.So as much as we compete with eachother and hope for the demise of one another…

Please.. for us.. be good to him..

Please.. for us.. be good to him..tears

WE WILL TRY TO DO OUR BEST IN THESE TRYING TIMES
I can honestly say that I'm rooting for the Rangers to win the World Series this year.

Of course the Mariners will win a number of World Series in the coming years with Smoak leading the way to overcome the franchise-saving 2010 WS victory of the Rangers, but still. NEW RIVALRY. GOODBYE PADRES!

THE RANGERS ARE ONE OF THE FEW REMAINING TEAMS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THE WS

IF THEY GET THERE BEFORE US, I WILL BE SORT OF UPSET, BUT ALSO A LITTLE HAPPY IN THIS CASE BECAUSE THEIR MODEL IS SOUND AND THEY HAVE TWO PLAYERS I’M FOND OF

I hate to say it but the NYY package might have been better
LoneStarDugout
  
It looks like RHP Blake Beavan, RHP Josh Lueke, and 2B Matt Lawson are the three prospects going to Seattle.
BLAKE BEAVEN IS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I call bullshit
Beavan > McAllister??
Yes.

I would say so.

maybe

just got promoted to AAA. Had a great time in AA.

DEFINITELY
Pitchers typically need to strike people out in order not to be awful
6'7, 210 LBS, 91-96 MPH FASTBALL AROUND THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED

HE’S NOT WALKING ANYONE, SO I’D SAY WITH SOME TWEAKS AND PERHAPS IMPROVED SECONDARIES, THIS IS NOT TOO WORRISOME.

Remember Andrew Miller and Rick Porcello?
WASN'T MILLER INJURED THOUGH?
Miller ended up being lesson #1 in

PAY ATTENTION TO STRIKEOUTS

Yeah gotta go with Graham on this one

His low strikeouts are worrisome. You can’t really be a MLB pitcher and only have 4 K/9. It just doesn’t usually work. I hope since he is super young his K rate increases as he ages but you can’t count on that.

HE ALSO HAD HORRIBLE COMMAND AT MOST LEVELS
They completely changed his pitching mechanics

Right after he was drafted. Rapid drop in velocity that has been slowly creeping back up to acceptable levels.

The control is good, but you have to hope he develops at least one plus secondary if you want to see anything better than a 3/4 out of him.

Yeah, but he seems to be a low-risk type of guy.

Maybe he never develops past #3/4, but that’s a fairly great return as a #2 piece.

Oh yeah

I always thought he would be valuable as that. I was just hoping it was Scheppers instead of Smoak headlining.

THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.
Just don't look at the K%
BACK ON BOARD THE Z TRAIN!
CHOO CHOO!!!
Don't mention Choo.
Lueke

Lueke’s MiLB page

38.1 IP and 62 K’s? That has to be a typo…

Wow he's been raping AA
Lots of rape talk recently.
Good for the soul
I HOPE THIS PARTICULAR JOKE DIES BUT I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE A BIG FUSS ABOUT IT
JUST ONCE JUST ONCE
You should come over to LSB sometime

There’s a poster I’d like to introduce you to…his name is thedirkatron.

He also rapes other things...

linky

Was he convicted?
Yes. Yes, the Mariners traded for a convicted rapist.
Better question: was he acquitted or is the trial and appeals process still pending?
Plea deal

now that I’ve read the story I regret making jokes

Yeah... sounded pretty ugly from that one news story. Not a fan at this point
I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, so I won't judge.

Doesn’t sound like this guy has a long criminal history before or after that.

WHILE I OFTEN BELIEVE THAT COOLER HEADS PREVAIL AND PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY INCLINED TO MAKE MISTAKES...

THIS IS NOT A MISTAKE THAT I PERSONALLY AM CAPABLE OF FORGIVING A FELLOW FOR. I WON’T TREAT HIM WITH ANIMOSITY OUTSIDE OF BAD PITCHING PERFORMANCES BUT I WILL NEVER BE OKAY WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT HE’S IN THE SYSTEM.

What if it was really just drunken stupidity on the part of both parties involved?

I don’t know, I am 100% against anything of this nature, but I also know that people can be accused of things without basis, or they can end up in bad situations where things happened when they shouldn’t, but their wasn’t really an intent to do something bad.

The rumor was

That the sex was consensual, then he went somewhere he wasn’t supposed to go and was nonconsensual.

I have no idea if it’s true.

Let's go ahead and not discuss this further since we know absolutely nothing about it.
Does this include jokes?
YOU'D BETTER FUCKING BELIEVE IT INCLUDES JOKES.
Yes.

Jokes about actual rape are one of the most difficult things in the world to make funny.

Unless it's a clown telling them.
Clowns make everything worse
This was unneeded.

Just leave the subthread closed.

YES A MILLION FUCKING TIMES
What do you think?
I think abender20 is right.

Probably no point in discussing this. I shouldn’t have opened the can of worms.

Yeah

I felt bad even posting that. Sorry.

APOLOGY ACCEPTED. WE COOL.
GOOD.

SETTING STANDARDS OF GOOD BEHAVIOR IS NOT REALLY MY THING, BUT I’D LIKE IT IF THIS PARTICULAR ONE WERE OFF-LIMITS.

THIS CHANGES MY REACTION TO THE TRADE, BUT I WILL BACK OFF UNTIL FURTHER INFORMATION IS PROVIDED

I’LL TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE ABOUT IT BUT WILL BE INCLINED TO RESPOND TO HIS PERFORMANCES WITH HARSH WORDS IF NECESSARY.

For those not in on the joke

This is from last year. But it may explain why Texas let an infinity K/9 pitcher go.

Not sure it counts as a joke anymore...
IT NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN A JOKE.

IT’S NOT FUNNY.

That mustache isn't helping his image problems.
It's the only evidence against him
It's pretty damning, though.
He's also 25.
Pleasure doing business with you, Jon Daniels!
Who starts tonight?
Texas Press Conference at 3 PM PDT.
Strange... I thought for sure we'd get a catcher in this deal

Rangers have a few guys they seem to have given up on. I mean, why else would you go out and get a Molina?

Yeah, I thought for sure Salty would be one of the 3.
They have a belief system in Rob Johnson
thought this was interesting
Evan Grant Evan_P_Grant
  
Regarding other prospects: Only thing I was told by sources before afternoon activity was that Martin Perez was deemed untouchable
I'm gonna find Perez and touch the shit out of him. Just to prove a point that nobody is untouchable.
I kinda figured as much.

Feliz seems like he might be in the bullpen for life, so Perez is the guy they’re dreaming on in the rotation.

I was hoping we would get Mitch Moreland
.

@StoneLarry M’s get Smoak, Seattle Times headline writers rejoice (Holy Smoak! Up in Smoak! Smoak and Mirrors! Smoakin’! Where There’s Smoak…!") etc.

I LOVE LARRY'S SELF-AWARENESS
I love Stone
Rizzs is the gittiest man on the planet right now.
Giddiest?
No, I think he was right first time.
Well, I did wonder.
This is a lesser package (as reported lately anyway) and we added money AND Lowe over teh Yankees trade.

We should be blowing that out of the water. Doesn’t make sense.

kinda what I thought
A few thoughts on that.

Perhaps there were Mariners players other than Lee going back to the Yankees who weren’t being widely publicized?

And while I’d also prefer the Yankees return, in the big picture it’s hard for me to get too perturbed about a return that includes Smoak. That’s a huge win and would have been dismissed as completely unrealistic even a few days ago.

Maybe Smoak was Z's guy the whole time.
That isn't how the front office operates
But they do seem to put a premium on MLB-ready players.
As has been said

Z doesn’t operate that way. However, his Major League readiness probably factored heavily

The rest of these prospects are shit.

I wanted Scheppers or Salty.

This is stupid if the rumoured return is true
Yup! I don't get it...I love Smoak and all, but hmmm.
Do you think the downgrade from Montero to Smoak isn't worth the upgrade from McAllister to Beavin?
Is Beavin an upgrade from McAllister?
Maybe slighty?
I have no idea!
Yes, I think so. Beavin's upside seems higher. And he's younger.
I'm younger than Cliff Lee.
Age doesn't always matter, and it's one year in the case of those guys right?
I guess in my mind, though Beaven is in AA and McCallister is in AAA, Beaven has that one extra year to improve. Plus he's on the upswing, McCallister is having a down year.

I mean, it seems like neither was a strikeout pitcher, but Beaven gives up less walks. To be fair, I’m not going to make great stretches on comparing the two.

Beavan just got promoted to AAA
Well, I obviously can't count his AAA numbers that don't exist yet. And isn't his promotion up to us now?
Fair enough

Just trying to be helpful.

Sorry if I was dick-ish. Let us simply rejoice at this being over.
I'm so conflicted

It’s going to take a while I think.

Beavan

Low ceiling, close to majors type. Isn’t that the sort of pitcher you guys were interested in?

No. We have plenty of those guys.
I'm sick of having eighteen of those guys
McAllister was one of those guys
Yes.

So if Smoak = Montero and McAllister = Beavan and Adams > Lawson, we just made a mistake.

Adding Lowe and cash makes it less appealing, for sure.
Right, we apparently just traded cash and Mark Lowe for a worse 2B and an extra reliever
I agree, but we shouldn't discount the value of hurting Texas.
Assuming that other players weren't included in the deal with the Yankees
Regarding the pitchers and how they stack up against McAllister

the numbers aren’t that different but I presume they have been heavily scouted

The cash would have probably turned into some really nice international signings
DIFFERENT FUNDS

OUR ROSTER ACCOUNTING WAS PROBABLY INCLUDING LEE ALL ALONG.

I will never understand how their accounting works

Its retarded

Different buckets.
YES.

THAT’S THE GIST OF WHAT ANY OF US NEED TO KNOW AT THIS POINT.

CLIFF LEE DID NOT STEAL ALL OUR COOKIES ON HIS WAY OUT. WE DON’T ACCOUNT THAT WAY.

You can say this all you want but it doesn't help
You have a lemonade stand. Your mommy and daddy give you 7 dollars for supplies but you use six.
Not really

Its more like they give you 4 dollars for lemons and 3 dollars for sugar. You find out lemons are on sale but sugar is expensive so you spend all your sugar budget but not all your lemon budget. This isn’t optimal.

I was making fun of you with something from The Office.
That's pretty much how all businesses do accounting
What happens to a bucket if money is left there at the end of the year?
IT IS NOT PUT TOWARDS NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, I CAN TELL YOU THAT MUCH
Man....

you seem pissed.

THIS I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH AND REC YOU ON
Sorry

I remember know that it was USSM that was proposing a Ramos+Slowey type deal

THAT WAS NOT AN APPEALING DEAL
Maybe Jack just wanted Smoak all along. His number one choice. When the Rangers called and finally said "okay fine" he was willing to go down in price on the other 3.
This is contrary to how he has operated previously
Yeah. Also, Smoak is much closer to being a valuable member to the major league team now than Montero. Jack still seems focused on 2011 and no later.
Just looking over Bleavan's AAA results this year,

in 110 IP he’s got 12 walks and 68 K’s to go along with his shiny 2.78 ERA.

12 walks is fucking sick.
So he's Doug Fister?
AS TALL, BUT BIGGER AND MORE HEAT.
I was just gonna post this.

Doug Fister redux.

Not sure Beavan’s touching 96 like he was coming out of HS.

AA
You're right.

I was just looking at his MiLB page which suggests AAA. He’s in AA, repeating?

That is bad

Not good.

Bad.

New Cliff Lee?
CLIFF LEE STRIKES PEOPLE OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS
Ks are good. Nick Blackburn isn't/
its all from AA

just started in AAA, hasn’t made a start yet

Jason Parks on him:

Beavan is a command/control pitcher w/a decent FB, decent CU, and iffy SL. Unless he adds a pitch, I project him to be a 4/5 at best.

OK, I got all excited about the Yankees deal, now I'm excited about this deal

I’m excited enough that I don’t know if this package is better than the Yankees package.

Other than Smoak, its not.
I'd rather have Montero than Smoak and the rest of the prospects don't excite me in the least
Yeah, but I think its pretty clear then that Z felt the other way.
Well sure but that doesn't mean I have to like it
Larry Stone on MLB Network
Well that was anticlimatic
FUCK.

This is not as good as I want it to be.

How much value do you guys think we should place

in making Texas worse in the future with this deal? Seems like this is a pretty big swing after this season is over and they just get a couple of picks.

The "couple of picks"

Are going to be better than the shit we picked up in the deal other than Smoak.

You have no way of knowing that.
It's a reasonable supposition at this point
They'd certainly have more upside
I would guess so

Beavan just doesn’t have the ceiling he used to have.

They may not turn out to be as good in 5 years, but I think they would be more valuable over the next 1-3 years.

All I'm saying is that the downgrade from Montero to Smoak

might be worth getting Smoak off of the roster of the team we are probably trying to catch the next couple years

It also cost us Lowe and $2.5M
They still have their pitching prospects.
At the start of the day I'd have bitten your hand off if you offered Smoak+

The Yankees deal seemed better though. I’m still pretty damn happy.

Agreed.

I like to think of it as Mariners + Smoak for 5/6 years
Rangers – Smoak for 5/6 years

But Montero would have been awesome.

I'm going to stick on the Smoak side and package. But it's awfully close for me.
In Z my trust is fully restored.

I can disagree with his preseason handling of Lee all I want, but the fact is I’ve never seen a GM with bigger balls. Turning down Montero to hold out for something better? Massive balls. What a trade.

This isn't obviously something better

And we paid more for it

I agree.

He better have seen something he really liked in the things we are calling “chump change”

He did pretty well in the Putz deal.

And while you can’t predict a repeat, it does show that he’s got the ability to sniff some goodies out of the woodpile.

Rangers fan here

I still goddamn hate giving up Smoak. But Cliff Lee personifies sexiness.

Justin Smoak is a Will Clark/John Olerud mashup going forward. Tons of walks, hard contact, 25 HR power with solid D. .300/400/500 in his peak years.

Beavan came out of HS as a flamethrower with a good slider. Rangers changed his arm action (was thought to be a guarantee for injuries down the road) and he’s become a different pitcher entirely. THrows 89-92, average slider, change and curve. Pinpoint command and good groundball tendencies. Looks like a good bet to eat a lot of innings at the ML level.

Josh Leuke is a rapist.
He also throws in the mid 90s and is making AA hitters look lobotomized. He may be up in the majors fairly soon.

Matt Lawson is not a big league prospect. But, you know, depth is cool.

/Cries about Smoak some more.

/Looks at Cliff Lee highlights

Thanks, and welcome to LL.

Enjoy Cliff

Is Leuke friends with Ben Roethlisberger?
Probably a good idea to close this subthread here.
Yeah if you are going to make fun of Roethlisberger you should bring up how he almost died when he went through an old lady's back window
This is really not fucking funny people.
hey dont knock pittsburgh

we have enough trouble with baseball as it is!

and my heart cry's for the city of Pittsburgh
Capitalise properly, please.
You will LOVE Cliff and the ring he brings you.
Thanks!

And please beat the holy tar out the Yankees in the ALD/CS.

Even if we hadn't included money and Lowe, that deal is worse than the reported Yankees package

I don’t get it, unless those reports weren’t true.

It's entirely possible they weren't true and if so were incomplete
Exactly, that never happened so as far as we know it never existed.
Seems like the most likely scenario
Might have been why Pineda was scratched.
Holy fucking shit, I did not think of that.
I had that in my mind, too. Was too scared to think much about it though.
If he was within a mile of that deal then holy fuck I'm glad that went away.
Yeah, it flitted about in my mind for a couple of seconds and then I banished it.
Well that's a horrifying thought.
Yeah fuck that deal if so
Would make all kinds of sense why NY was so menstrual about Jack closing with Texas.
I can't imagine that that's a deal that the M's would have agreed to

They need Pineda

I'm with you on this one.

There is no way you include Pineda in a deal that sends Lee away. He’s part of the reason we can afford to trade Lee in the first place.

Maybe they mention his name to New York. New York puts Montero, etc on the table.

We go to Texas knowing that we aren’t trading Pineda but tell them what Yankees are willing to give up. The Rangers then give us what we want.

New York knows that we don't trade Pineda though

I mean, it’s just not reasonable for a rebuilding club to be putting its top prospects on the table. Everyone knows this.

Well, I'm just saying

that we thought we were getting a once-in-a-lifetime steal, so it’s possible they were under the impression they were as well.

Bah, it’s irrelevant now. I cede contention of the point.

This is what Bavasi would have done.
Maybe part of doing this was taking Smoak out of the Rangers lineup for 2011 and beyond
I wanted Smoak so I'm happy
Me too. He's just one of my favorite young players in the league.
Somehow...

…this makes it better.

The 3 other prospects are pretty unexciting

Better than the projected Hicks/Ramos deal, but not as good as one with Montero/McAllister/someone else deal.

This trade has brought me back down to Earth though, even if it’s pretty good.

I'm surprised that we'd consider any trade of a half-season of Cliff Lee for Smoak to be just "pretty good."

If we knew nothing about the Yankee offer, we’d be completely over the moon about this.

Truth.. That Yankees offer set the bar pretty high

Getting Smoak a week ago was a pipe dream.

Right. I'm a little surprised by the mournful mood that seems to be prevailing.

Even if the Yankees offer was exactly as reported, and as a result the Mariners didn’t pick the exactly optimal package, that shouldn’t distract from the point that the Mariners just made a magnificent trade. They just consummated a string of transactions that turned Aumont, Ramirez, and Gilies into a half-season of Cliff Lee magnificence, Justin Smoak, and three players of varying potential.

Or, to focus solely on what took place today, we traded a half-season rental of Cliff Lee and two draft picks for a young, cost-controlled switch-hitter who projects to be an excellent building block for the next several years. It very possibly could have been better, but it’s the equivalent about mourning over a lost $20 when somebody just gave you $1,000.

I'm happy.

I feel like I might have been happier.

There we go. That's the perfect thought.
I have been pulled down from levels of pure ecstacy to mere happiness

As a result I feel upset

Yeah, that's fair.
My sentiments exactly
THE RANGERS MIGHT DO SOMETHING WITH THOSE DRAFT PICKS

JUST A QUICK SHUDDER DOWN THE SPINE THERE.

They can't do anything with them if their ownership and bankruptcy doesn't get resolved.

I know it’s a year away, but who knows

VALID POINT

I HAD BEEN HEARING PROGRESS ON THE OWNERSHIP FRONT THOUGH.

I'm personally satisfied with the trade

Just tempering myself here.

So for someone with less knowledge as others is this not a great deal? or just not as awesome as the Yankee deal, but still awesome?
It is, apparently, debatable.

That it is awesome is not debatable.

Leuke, Lawson, and Beaven are significantly less than Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez, right?
Of course.
But then hey Smoak.
Who knows.

Z seems like a pretty good talent evaluator so whatever.

They are also getting only a few months of Lee.

So we should expect less.

Significantly? I don't think so.
That's two non-prospects and a prospect for three prospects
Lueke has a shot

Good arm

Aumont and Ramirez also had good arms
YOU HAVE A HIGHER OPINION OF RAMIREZ THAN I DO.

AUMONT ULTIMATELY DID NOT TAKE WELL TO STARTING, AND REALISTICALLY, GILLIES WAS PROBABLY A FOURTH OUTFIELDER IF IT’S A GOOD TEAM.

Aumont is down, Gillies is a 4th OF, and we don't know what Ramirez will do
HISTORIC PERFORMANCES ARE NOT ON RAMIREZ' SIDE

THE SORIANO COMPS PEOPLE WERE MAKING IN HIS CASE ALWAYS COMPLETELY IGNORED PRESENT RESULTS.

Put it this way - I'd take Beavan over Aumont by a good amount, Ramirez over Lueke by a bit, and Gillies over Lawson

Similar packages, plus, SMOAK.

Minus Lowe and $2.5 mill.
Point taken
THAT'S WHAT PUTS IT IN THE WORSE CATEGORY FOR ME.
Plus a half season of Lee
I think Beaven is fair comparison to Aumont or Ramirez. Pick one. I don't personally think Gillies is a major leaguer like Lawson appears not to be, but Gillies is clearly the better prospect. Its slight favor to what the M's gave up, but I think we

got a fourth player today too.

So is there a worry about taking Smoak out of Arlington and sticking him in Safeco?
Switch hitter helps that quite a bit.
Uhh...about that

He’s going to need some serious development time against LHP. Or perhaps a platoon partner, but let’s not be hasty.

Safeco murders righties, not lefties.
LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT PLATOONING WITH A FIRST-YEAR PLAYER IN MOST CASES
I know, hence:
but let’s not be hasty.

I’m just saying, from his scouting reports, his SSS numbers, and anecdotally, he looks to currently be struggling with LHP. He may not in the future, but you’ll see what I mean the rest of this year.

ANECDOTALLY, LAST YEAR SAUNDERS WAS HORRIBLE.

JUDGING PLAYERS BASED OFF OF THE FIRST FEW HUNDRED AT-BATS IS A BAD IDEA.

Jeez

I get it. I agree. SSS, especially for a split, where you need more than one year. Splits are often not as bad as they appear anyways.

I’m just passing on what one of the common gripes about him is currently.

I think Jay's all caps binge makes him sound more argumentative than he's actually being
ON THE PLUS SIDE, IT MAY HAVE STOPPED THE LUEKE TALK.
I'M NOT TRYING TO SINGLE YOU OUT TO HARP ON YOU

YOU JUST HAPPEN TO BE BRINGING UP LARGER PLAYER EVALUATION POINTS THAT IT WOULD HELP US TO ADDRESS PUBLICLY.

HUH IT ATE THE OTHER HALF OF THAT POST.

I ONLY MENTION IT BECAUSE YOU’RE BRINGING UP POINTS THAT I FIND TO PERSONALLY BE FRUSTRATING AS A PROSPECT EVALUATOR. WHEN YOU GET RIGHT DOWN TO IT, VERY FEW PLAYERS ARE GOING TO PERFORM AT THEIR ESTABLISHED MAJOR LEAGUE LEVELS AS SOON AS THEY HIT THE MLB, PARTLY FOR THE GREATER TALENT AND PARTLY BECAUSE THE EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON THEM ARE SO MUCH GREATER. BEING SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT PLAYER DEVELOPMENT, IT’S FRUSTRATING TO ME TO SEE SOME ARMCHAIR SCOUT SAYING “X WILL NEVER BE A MAJOR LEAGUE HITTER” BASED OF A PALTRY FEW AT-BATS OF SAMPLING BECAUSE IT’S A LINE OF THINKING THAT IS ULTIMATELY QUITE DESTRUCTIVE.

I’M USING YOUR COMMENTS AS A SPRINGBOARD TO AIR OUT THESE THOUGHTS PUBLICLY, BUT DON’T THINK THAT I’M MAD AT YOUR OR DELIBERATELY TRYING TO START SHIT. I’M JUST TYPING IN ALL CAPS AND TRYING TO MAKE A REASONED POINT.

I thought it was all caps time until Lee trade was official?

Or did I just assume incorrectly?

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.

I THINK I MIGHT JUST KEEP IT ON UNTIL I’M OUT OF THIS THREAD. I MIGHT CUT IT OFF EARLY THOUGH. HAVEN’T DECIDED YET.

It's time. Come back to us, Jay.
Okay, I'm done.
No

You will fall in love with his swing

Why the hell did we give up Lowe for meh covered in more meh? Smoak is exciting, but the rest of it is junk.
Now if only we can pry Montero out of the Yankees' hands somehow.

I want em’ both. DH and 1B combo like that.

It would take Felix
I didn't want to be the one to say it.

You might be able to get away with Ichiro if they had a need. They don’t.

I prefer another half season of Cliff Lee.
I'll take Smoak happily.

Something about Montero’s bat and potential is biting at me, though

It's the higher ceiling.
And then settle for two draft picks?

You can have the picks, I’ll take Smoak.

This is crazy.
I'm not asking anyone to agree.

I was just enormously entertained by Cliff Lee’s pitching.

I'm pretty satisfied with this.
Wonder if any of the three could be flipped in another deal..
Possibly with Branyan?
So, what's happening tonight, then?
Pineda, I think
I am still furious

We had a better offer on the table and paid more to not get it.

We also just took a great player away from a division rival, so there is that.
This is how I'll view it, and be happier about it.
The specifics of the deal with the Yankees were not written in stone.

Lowe + cash never came up until the deal was totally finished.

I will just say that we didn't hear Lowe's name until the end of the announcements.

It’s entirely possible that we would have sent someone to NY as well. Actually, it seemed likely to me the whole time.

Well that's nothing more than speculation
While you're right, it's also clear that we don't know for certain what the deal with NY was.

I was pumped for the Montero package just like everyone else. It looked like it had the potential to put three contributing players on the team in the next year or year and a half. But it really did seem too good to be true.

Unless Cashman comes out with the phone records, we’ll likely never know the final details. Personally I’d be interested to see what the end ‘agreement’ was.

I don't think it's fair

to be furious unless you’re absolutely certain that we knew the full details of the other deal.

We are the Backwardsmen

We get good players like Figgins and League and turn them into Kraft Dinner.

Perhaps a slightly less amazing offer prevents this.

I agree if you assume that Smoak and Montero are about equal.

It seems that GMZ thinks that Smoak is considerably better though.

@Ken_Rosenthal #Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M's took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours...
AHAHA...that's funny.
They way he fucked over the Yankees made this just a little better.
Awwww... Sorry Cashman!

Fuck off.

Oh man… there’s gonna be a fight tonight.

I would love if if this happens.
A GM brawl would be great
That seems about right.
I hope Z isn't alienating teams

That could be a problem in a few years

It's one thing to fuck a team for no reason, but fucking them to get your player or whatever we did here is different.

They’d be foolish to not trade with the Mariners in the future because of something like this.

I agree with this.

You get over being angry if the other team has a player you want.

Nevertheless, GMs might think twice about the offers they make
Not if they're smart
This is my concern as well
And screw the Yankees -

I hope you have to face the Rangers in the ALCS and see Lee twice.

PUMP FAKE!
Quit bitching Cashman, you'll have him in 6 months.
Poor Yankees, always missing out on the great players
x

Oh, Ok.

Mark Feinsand of the Daily News is talking to a source — I’m guessing a Yankees source — who says there will be big trouble in baseball if the Rangers get Cliff Lee:

    “There will be a battle royale over this if Texas gets Lee . . . Every other team in baseball is supplementing the Rangers right now, so they have no business taking on Lee’s salary.”
Wasn't Colon traded to the Expos in a similar situation?
He is being paid about $4M, right?

down to $1.5 with what the M’s tossed in?

But we're paying his salary..or most of it.
DON'T ARGUE WITH THEM

THEY’RE THE YANKEES AND THEY’RE ALWAYS RIGHT AND IF THEY AREN’T WHO CARES THEY’LL JUST THROW BAGS OF MONEY AT THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE BAGS AND BAGS OF MONEY

And BOXES and BOXES of Snickers Ice Cream Bars, which is probably more valuable anyways…

Huh, haven't they had a rule since 2002 where 40% of privately funded stadium costs are deducted from the payroll tax?

If so the Yankees can suck it if they want to cry foul over this one.

We're paying the majority of his salary, so they can bite me.
They are the Yankees. They have no claim to the excuse "We don't have the resources".

If the Yankees really wanted Lee they could have added players, money, broadway tickets or any number of things.

They are just trying to make the other team (the Mariners) look bad. The Yankees do this every single time they don’t get their way.

IT'S BASIC ENTITLEMENT THINKING

NY IS FULL OF IT.

CONCRETE JUNGLE WHERE DREAMS ARE MADE OF THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN'T DOO-OOOOO NOW YOU'RE IN NEWWWWW YORRRRRRRK NEEEEEWWW YORRRRRRRKKKK
SERIOUSLY, AS SOON AS THAT SONG CAME OUT MY MIND WENT

“GREAT, NOW I’M GOING TO SEE THAT IN COMMERCIALS FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS”

AT LEAST I DON’T HAVE A TV HERE. PLUS I HEAR THAT KEYS IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY COOL PERSON.

She is hilariously bad at dancing and amazing at singing and piano. It's feast or famine with her talents.
Yes

Her voice and piano skills are otherworldly.

I remember when she did the duet with Colbert on his show.

As much as I oppose the song on principle, that was pretty special.

Colbert rapping was worth it.
Not just the rapping, but the content of the rapping.
I never really liked that song.
It's catchy, though :(
I am so glad to have Met Cliff when he played in Tacoma

This is an amazing day, but glad to have had him as long as we did.

Congratulations.

Enjoy Justin Smoak.

Having Cliff Lee on your team, even for half a season, is a truly wonderful thing.
It will be an MLB decree

he gets a half-season with every team from here on out to rekindle the nation’s passion in baseball

I'm fully cognizant of that fact.

Is it worth not seeing Justin Smoak’s awesome swing for 6 years? Probably not.

Just wait for the playoffs, you might change your mind.
From Divish's Twitter:
So the Yankees are upset at the Mariners? It’s a business. Go ask a Cavaliers fan and see if they feel sorry for them.
Divish is just my favorite.
I <3 DIVISH
might they be pissed...

because they feel their deal is better, and also butt hurt because their evil empire plans of galaxial domination were thwarted? They offered up their best prospect, and he still went to a potential post-season rival.

I'm just not that upset about losing Lowe and the $2.5M

Because, I mean how do we know Lowe is even gonna come back and be good again? And big whoop on $2.5M.

Thats a lot of hooch.
It is, but do we know if the Lincoln/Armstrongwould spend it on the team or just pocket the extra profits?
With Cleveland paying for Branyan's salary, it kind of works out to be a wash.
IT STINGS, BUT BASICALLY DOES NOT MATTER IN THE GREATER SCHEME OF THINGS
I keep thinking of Lowe as the nice useful guy, but he is out for the season, so there is that.
This is what I thought too. Bad backs are not easy to come back from.
USSM says Smoak > Montero

Since Beavan and McAllister are basically the same, and Leuke fits the team’s needs better than Adams, is this just a question of how you value Smoak’s defense vs. Montero’s offensive ceiling?

Lawson blows.
That's why I didn't include him.
AT THIS POINT, I TAKE SMOAK

BECAUSE HE’S IN THE TOP TIER OF FIRST BASEMEN AND A GREAT DEFENDER AT PRESENT. MONTERO’S ULTIMATE DEFENSIVE POSITION IS AN UNKNOWN AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A TOP 5-20 HITTER IN THE LEAGUE AND A POTENTIAL (KEYWORD) TOP FIVE DOESN’T SEEM LIKE IT’S WORTH FIGHTING OVER.

So who's gonna be the first to buy a Smoak jersey?
I am really close to doing it.
Don't know his number yet.
Was wearing #12 with Rangers.
My prediction...

Not the last deal the Mariners do. The other three guys are filler, means they have some “surplus” built up. I expect another deal like the Pirates deal last year by the trade deadline to go with Branyan.

I expect Branyan is going to be dealt

He suddenly doesn’t really have a place anymore

in the American League...

they use the Designated Hitter.

Bradley?
Bradley has been nursing a bad leg
Branyan's easier to get rid of than Bradley.
surprisingly...

for a guy with a wonky back, Branyan is easier to keep in the batter’s box than Bradley.

Yeah, but that salary...

Plus, having a solid DH isn’t really important for a last place team. If we could get something useful for Branyan, I don’t see why they wouldn’t trade him.
(Then again, it’s weird that they traded for him.)

Please capitalize the start of your comments

You have a habit of not

and before you say it

Muscle > GameBoard

Bradley's untradeable.
Plus we love him and his smile more than anyone else could.
he's not...

uncuttable… and the Cubs proved last year he’s not untradeable. That’s how the Mariners got him.

In a trade of sunk costs

The situation just happened to work for both sides. Gonna be hard as hell to replicate it.

It worked...

because the Mariners are run by a genius. It’s possible he could do it again. Maybe not get “as good a deal”, but have it work out better than this one. Who knows?

This isn't the right thread to bring this up in.
I have no doubt that Branyan is going somewhere else soon.

Or Bradley – but you can’t do much with him. You gotta open up 1B for Smoak.

Or send Smoak to AAA
Isn't Bradley still out?

If so, why not just end Kotchman and move Branyan to DH?

that's...

where they’ve been playing Branyan anyway.

Capitalise properly, please.
Thanks for the tip

Professor.

LL rules, not the professor's.
Didn't say otherwise...

just said thanks for the tip.

I'm curious

Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, J.C. Ramirez

…or…

Smoak, Beavan, Lawson, Lueke.

Which group is better?

I'd trade the seven other players straight up for Smoak
That'd actually be just about fair.

Hrm

Wow, when you put it that way.
Including Smoak in that isn't fair.

Obviously we got useful things for three months of Lee, which is really, really cool.

This is how I choose to look at this trade.

The Yankee’s may have offered a better deal, but we got a better deal than Philly did so we’re stronger now then we were before Lee. Of course that doesn’t make the loss of Lee any easier.

This is great, because it gives Sean White a chance to spot-start tonight.
So will Lee be making first first Rangers appearance at the ASG?

Has this happened before?

Ha. That'd be neat.
Saturday start, I think.
Yes, Jeff Shaw in 1998

Stone wrote about it today.

correct

He was the Reds only rep at all-star game that year too. They added… drum roll… Bret Boone to the team as an injury replacement to make up for it.

Capitalize please
I think Beltran, too.

Someone mentioned it on a baseball broadcast the other day. Was traded from the Royals to the Mets after being named to the All-Star game, and appeared in the game as a Met.

There's got to be some value in the Rangers not having Smoak for the next 5 and a half years.
Chris Davis instead?
Chris Davis sucks
Do they have any other MLB ready 1st base options?
Not quite

Mitch Moreland could theoretically be ready soon.

More likely, they’ll have to go outside the organization to address it.

And yes, I know he sucks.
He doesn't actually suck

Josh Wilson at 1B sucks.

Yeah he does.
So...

did Texas keep Smoak in AAA long enough this season to keep his service time down?

yes
So we....

get 6.5 years then :-)

Looks like it

He’ll probably go Super Two, though. Still, that’s better than only five more years.

Absolutely. I think some are overlooking this undertone to the trade.
I also wonder if the Rangers believe they'll sign him after the season.

Smoak is a really hefty price to pay for a rental. This is a big deflation of their talent pool, more than just the $$ and back-side of Lee’s career.

Only the homers
I'm pretty sure that's the only defence here
Ah, yes... but what about the defenses?
Isn't it 6 and a half?
I don't know, it's not like this closes the gap between the teams and there are two other teams the M's still have to be better than in the division.

I’d say the value of making a single team worse is awfully small.

Depends...

on who they get to replace him. Texas has done pretty well with first basemen over the years.

For you Twitter guys

Lueke is on Twitter: @Josh_Lueke

Interesting:
Had a blast at the rangers game, great seats saw and talked to my old pitching coord rick adair all in all great night
Tampering!
With his arm slot?
Well that explains Lueke's inclusion.
Trusting pitching coaches doesn't seem like the best strategy, but whatever.
Also, Lueke apparently liked Griffey as a kid

Unoriginal, but nice:


WOW Griffey Jr. What a great and very long career man, congrats.. Was a blast being able to watch you as I was growing up !!!!

So does Lee start tomorrow night for the Rangers instead of Harrison?
♥♥♥ You may be Cameron's #6org ♥♥♥

♥♥♥ But you’ll always be my #1. ♥♥♥

Nolan Ryan

Looks smug in this press conference

It looks like Rick Adair was Leuke's old pitching "coord"

Had a blast at the rangers game, great seats saw and talked to my old pitching coord rick adair all in all great night -via twitter

maybe they see something more in him

David Pauley starts tonight.

Collective ugh?

I picked todays game to see Cliff Lee

And now we’re gonna see David Pauley start? Really?

Realistically, Lee was never going to pitch for us today.

I’m a bit surprised it took this long to trade him.

Lame.

I want Pineda.

Wow, we're gonna get shelled tonight
Seriously, this game is going to be terrible.
So as someone suggested above

maybe Pineda was involved in the NY deal… which is the rationale I’m going to use to make myself feel better if Montero develops into something between Pujols and Miggy Cabrera

I generally prefer my rationale to make sense
Yeah, yeah, I know...

I just wanna be ecstatic about Smoak but it’s hard when there’s the possibility that Montero develops into a monster and we know we could have gotten him. Stupid twitter

No, there's no rational reason he was involved in the deal

Nor was he ever scratched.

This is what happens when I buy tickets for a prospective Lee start

woooooooo

Oof.

Although I’m not sure I loved the idea of Pineda getting rushed up.

I'll take the inevitable loss from a Pauley start than risk messing up Pineda by rushing him.
Especially since this season is down the shitter already.
See? There's your consolation prize ya whiny Yanks.
Sounds like Calabro is going to be airing the press conference in 10 mins
Turn off your cell phone Ryan. Dumbass.
And in comes the informed baseball banter of Calabro & Moore
Oh, lordy.
Why do you keep torturing yourself in this manner?
I was just waiting for the presser and put the earphones back in.
msb is is actually Prometheus. No choice.
Who needs a liver, anyway.
I like this for its double meaning.
We got two classical mythology references into these trade threads.

Go team.

HAHA BONERS
Besides, it's not Greek mythology without someone getting their bone on.
Welcome back to Seattle Ian Snell!
STARTED YESTERDAY
I will kill you.
Or at the very least not save you.
David Pauley in 5 games as a starter...

23 innings, 0-5, 9/15 BB/SO, 2.30 WHIP

Whoopdy woo. It's 23 innings.
PSA with no comment.

I remember him looking decent in a game with the Red Sox a few years back.

Going 0-5 in 23 innings is pretty impressive
That should be 0-3
He should be fine.
Oh boy...

This game is going to be depressing.

Smoak in...

Is he our everyday 1B now? Branyan to DH? thoughts?

Muscle...

was already our DH. Kotchman to complete uselessness… and just as he was starting to turn it around a little.

Someone make me feel better about waking up from a nap to what looks like a worse deal.
SMOAK!
Isn't as good of a bat as Montero.
I have a hard time believing the specifics of the Montero deal were accurate or complete.
It didn't pass the smell test

There had to be something else, something non-negligible, coming from our end.

Sounds like we need diapers.
The Smoak rumors weren't passing the smell test either because of Mark Lowe.

I fully believe the offer was on the table, I just think Jack might have wanted to use it as leverage.

I agree.

I don’t think it was Pineda, but I wouldn’t at all be surprised if we didn’t hear the full story on that deal.

This is why getting all worked up over trade rumors is a bad idea

You’re operating on incomplete/potentially false information. I’d think if they had the Montero/Adams/McAllister deal on the table with no other players included, they easily take it over what the Rangers offered, because it’s clearly better to even a casual observer. That they didn’t probably suggests that wasn’t the extent of the deal.

Smoak is a better all-around player.
I don't think you can say that.

Until they’ve both actually played in the majors. Smoak appears to be a much better fit for our team.

If you're one of the people that believe that minor league performance doesn't have predictive value, I can't help you
I meant that while Montero has more potential/higher ceiling.

I thought it was agreed that Smoak is ready now, is a natural first baseman, switch hitter (fits to safeco better).

Smoak's ready now, but who cares?

Montero isn’t that far from ready. People are acting like Montero is some guy hacking away in A ball. He’ll be ready to contribute at the major league level next year.

And struggle initially and be nearly excommunicated from the Holy House that Ruth built?
Josh Wilson!
Correct

But I also feel like something was missing in the NYY deal.

I'm having difficulty evaluating this, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Montero’s ceiling appears to be higher, but players don’t always hit their ceilings. Smoak has the advantages of switch-hitting, defense, and having an established position. Right?

I’m a just a little wary of falling completely in love with ceiling without paying attention to probably outcomes, and from the little I’m able to understand it seems that Smoak is a surer bet.

It's just that Montero has a chance to become Miguel Cabrera with maybe more power.
Certainly if anybody's ceiling is worth falling in love with, it's Montero's.

And high ceilings are so, so sexy.

Well that seems... completely wrong.

I get that Montero has great power but Miguel Cabrera nearly hit a ball out of Safeco earlier this year.

Hey guess what Montero is an 80 on the scouting scale.
What was/is Cabrera?
Not 80?
It's hard to wrap heads around this sort of stuff because Cabrera is a freak.
Yeah, it's hard for me to take a projection like that seriously because, yeah sure maybe someday, but to expect someone to have more functional power than Cabrera seems almost impossible.
Miggy would have been around 65-70ish, I imagine
70 is generally the top grade given, right?
The scale goes from 20-80
But yeah, 80 is clearly not something handed out lightly.
It happens almost never, as we've said.

Montero and Harper were the only ones Graham or I could remember.

Montero has as much or more power than anyone in baseball
I did not realize this was the case.

You are making me sad, which is odd considering we just traded for a player I never dreamed was in our range.

This is how quite a few people are feeling

Especially weird since I’ve lusted hard after Smoak for quite a while.

More than Mike Stanton?
From what I've heard, yes

Obviously I am not a scout, etc

Smoak just isn't the hitting prospect that Montero is, in my mind.

First base defense is nice but not THAT important, and you can only be so risk-averse if you’re going to build a great team.

I need to spend more time looking into the other prospects we got, but I don’t like it as much as the Yankees deal that apparently ran into a snag over Adams’ injury?

You know more about prospects than I do, so I have no ammunition with which to craft a convincing argument.

On one point, though – you say “First base defense is nice but not THAT important.”

Not necessarily related to Smoak/Montero, but isn’t the mantra that a run saved is a run saved regardless of position? I thought I understood that a +5 1B is as valuable as a +5 SS, but that it’s harder to make that difference at a position on the lower side of the defensive spectrum. I just remember USSM/LL dismissing people who didn’t think that Sexson’s defensive hackery at 1B was particularly important.

That's true, but first basemen get many less opportunities than most other defensive positions.

It’s a nice value-add to an already good player. It’s not something you acquire a player for.

Right - just trying to make sure I'm thinking of these things in the right way.
In 2011 the Rangers will have neither Cliff Lee or Justin Smoak. And we will have Justin Smoak.

Forget all the other bullshit and just focus on that.

Texas, no Smoak

Mariners, SMOAK!

We now have a cornerstone MOTO bat at a position of need who is under club control for six years.

He is also unlikely to experience a Safeco Swoon due to switch-hittingness, and we won’t experience a big drop-off in 1B defense from Kotchman, meaning we can keep Branyan or trade him as we wish.

The Rangers, who look like the best baseball team in the West for the next several years...

 just traded a division rival one of their best young talents for a rental player and a bad back reliever. I just think the “making the Rangers of the future worse” angle is being played down in this. If you suppose the front office thinks the Rangers are the front runners in the division going forward, hurting them and getting better at the same time seems to make more sense then just fleecing the Yankees. Or not fleecing the Yankees, since we don’t know what else was included in that deal.

Though to be fair to the Rangers

they are not idiots and they don’t know what 2011 will bring. They have a legitimate shot at their first World Series this year and doing everything they can to win it is not a bad plan, even if it harms them next year and the year after.

Rings do some great things money wise and attendance wise.

The money they get from a WS win probably makes this worth it.

Their goal is to win for the city/state.

They can do that here. That’s not nothing.

Fuck, then we become the only AL team without a pennant.
That's the only aspect of this that is making me feel better, really, and it's why I don't really see why this makes sense for the Rangers.
They want a World Series

And expect to face the Yankees in the post season. Cliff Lee owns the Yankees.

Cliff Lee owns everyone, but valid point.
I don't think Cliff Lee gets them to the World Series
I don't either

Though it certainly improves their chances quite a bit.

They have a very good offense, defense and bullpen. It was the starting pitching that was the problem.

Sure

But he couldn’t hurt their chances.

Realistically, though

The Rangers will probably raise their salary from that of a bottom 5 club, whenever it is that this ownership mess gets sorted out. At that point, I expect them to pursue a 1B either through trade or FA and give extensions to players like Elvis.

My point is that, while this hurts quite a bit, they’ll still be a talented team with money to spend in the next couple of years.

Pinstripe Alley:
We could see Lee pitching to Montero in 2011
Yes, in the fantasyland where Montero is a catcher.
Nice work.
Maybe he meant on pick-offs
I doubt Cliff would through a pickoff to the dugout :P
Like there's ever anyone for Cliff Lee to pick off.
Unless they meant Lee signs with someone else and owns the Yankees.
This is basically how the Yankees fan mind operates.
It's probably hard to be sad when your smart, spendy behemoth just keeps on rolling.
They basically have adopted the "well fuck that guy" approach whenever anything does not go their way.

With a dash of “we’ll get x anyway!”

Yep

The comment during Josh Hamilton’s HR Derby at Yankee Stadium was something like “Yankee fans are cheering because they know he’ll be a Yankee in a few years anyways!”

Get raped by a wolverine.

Fuckers.

I'm sure they'll face each other some time during their careers.

Maybe even in 2011, if Montero makes the bigs and Lee is still pitching in the American League.

So now Russel Branyan is just eye candy?
But what eye candy he is!
If I had a choice I'd say Kotchman.

Even though I really wanted him to succeed.

Maybe trade-bait for SF?

They wanted a lefty hitter who wouldn’t cost ML talent, or at least that’s what I remember reading on MLBTR.

I’m ambivalent on trading or keeping him.

Kotchman seems the most superfluous now

I don’t think we could expect much in return, but we might be able to get something that makes up for what we gave up to get Branyan.

Or he's a DH.
But I like Milton and Saunders too.
Branyan is a better hitter than Milton at this point.
Or, yeah, Branyan could generate some interest like he did last year.
Smoak to Tacoma solves all these problems
I suppose it does but then :(
Probably better for him and for us though
But how will he get any time with Carp blocking him there
Bradley is broken right now.
Given park adjustments,

Smoak still doesn’t measure out as a better hitter than Montero?

Nope.

Montero had only one opposite field home run all of last season, but he has the kind of power where not even Safeco Field will really affect him all that much. He might lose a few at the track, but that’s about it.

Do you have any idea what Nick Johnsons offensive ceiling was like when he was a top prospect for the Yankees?

I address this to anyone else too by the way.

Approach and patience were his calling cards.

He was #1 prospect for BA three years running, but there wasn’t anyone who was making claims that he had 80 power. That’s a claim that’s almost never made.

And he really is a good hitter, he's just incapable of staying healthy.
I've heard of two, I think

Harper and Montero

Those were the two I think I've heard, ever.
I want my Jesus
"Jesus gonna be heeeeeeeeeeere, he gonnna be here thoon."

(two off-beat guitar strums)

Hmmm, which he still does very well. I am a Nick Johnson fan myself, just not sure if he was lacking in a department that we thought he would have.

I guess that’s more of Kotchmans M.O.

Curious.

Anyone know what Sexson’s power grade was back in his hey-day?

Close to 80, I think.
Please help explain the difference

between a 75 power grade and 80?

Difference between Mark Teixeira and

Ryan Howard I believe. Howard being the 80.

Nicely played.
Thank you, that clears it up
On what station website can I listen to the press conference?
The Ms official site will have it
Jay, what do you know about the other guys in the deal, if anything?

I’m not finding a whole lot.

Lawson looks like AAA fodder!
It's been partially addressed elsewhere.

Beavan was a top prep prospect who had mechanical adjustments that cost him some velocity. Incredible command, not a lot in the way of Ks at the moment. He’s like Fister except that he has some potential to add velocity down the road and is a bit bigger.

Leuke has a questionable background, but powerful stuff and could easily replace Lowe as far as our system depth go.

Lawson is basically some guy who hits respectably and seems capable of providing above-average defense at second. He’s partly insurance if Ackley doesn’t work out, I would say. More likely he’s a future utility at best.

Alright, thanks Jay!
So... 2011

Ichiro – RF
Chone – 3B
Ackley – 2B
Smoak – 1B
Guti – CF
Saunders – LF
Moore – C
Wilson – SS
? – DH

Just got a bit more promising I think.

This might be September's lineup.
DH - Muscle?
Thought it was a 1 year contract?
There's an option.

Likely to get exercised.

Picking it up would save us the trouble of having to trade for him again next July.
There's some sort of option
I think he has an option for 5 million
If I remember correctly

There’s a $5 mil option for next year.

Well then insert him at four and I begin to like it a bit.
I'm still scared of his back though.

Every time he swings, I think it might go out. But yes, he’d be serviceable in the four-hole next year.

Put it this way Branyan or a Branyan type player with 5 million spent on that position.
We always have Bradley tied up if Branyan goes down.
Sounds kinky.
Woo?

I’ve lost confidence in Bradley :(

I'd trade him again if given the chance. He should be somewhat sought after near the deadline if he keeps hitting.
I can't imagine he'd bring back anything more than maybe a C prospect

Or am I off base with that assumption?

Don't look at me, but if he's not part of the future then you may as well go fori t.
Depends on who else is available.

He’s shown he’s healthy and can still hit, who knows what Z can get.

Very true.

And a $5 mil option for next year would be attractive for anyone looking to trade for him. SF perhaps?

Woudn't it have maybe made sense to include him in this trade to Texas?
Maybe.

And maybe Texas wasn’t interested in him. I believe that Branyan and Chris Davis are fairly similar players.

They don't need him as far as I can tell.

And with their financial situation it was probably in their best interest to keep the trade as tidy as possible.

Branyan's salary is being paid for by the Indians this year.
To the M's. They could have kept the money the Indians gave them and traded Branyan anyway.
Ah well fuck.

Shows how much I know about MLB salaries.

I wouldn't mind another catching prospect
Deadline tradebait I think

It’s gettng crowded around first base, and Saunders is looking too valuable to not have in left. That doesn’t leave a lot of room for Bradley and Branyan will have value at the deadline.

Bradley, last I heard, is still injured.

But you do make a solid point.

Presser time

Here

Thanks for the link

More rec for you

Just when I was thinking of leaving the cafe.
Jack's coming off defensive against the NY media.
He really wasn't happy about them.
I don't blame him.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
How was the nap?
Now that he's gone I feel I can say this freely.

I have always thought Mark Lowe sucked and I hated watching him.

Liberating, isn't it?

I think a lot of the goodwill towards Lowe as based off his original debut.

Packaging him with the deal makes this deal better than if he was not a part of it.
I'm tempted to agree.

There’s a strong likelihood that this doesn’t end up going the way the Rangers would want it to.

How long is he under club control?

Plus the injury thing.

This was his first year of arbitration.

So two, I think.

I'm starting to feel better about this trade.
He was so filthy that season before being called up.
Yeah, so.

I’ll give a bunch of rec’s to anyone who can make me a good LOST-Smoak Monster .gif.

What about a Smoaky the bear?
That sounds like Scruffy Work.
I want to see him put out the fires that a cracked out Josh Hamilton started
?

Needs a baseball glove or something.
That's the only one I could find while doing a Google search.

I’d like to see it blasting out of the forest, angry, with the name “Smoak” displayed prominently.

Well then this isn't what you're looking for


Smokey is going the other way, though.

Smoak... Smoak...

Are you Smoaking yet?

It's been done, but thanks.
Smoak won't be here until tomorrow, at least.
The Smoak puns are really going to get old

But I really hope Feierabend makes the team next year. Sportswriters will love that shit.

Isn't it pronounced Fear-abend?
Roughly, yes.
Is that gonna stop anybody from using it?
It's always party night with Feierabend.
Nice work.
I think I might go out for a cigarette after the presser is done.

HAY GUYZ GUESS WHAT I’LL BE DOING WITH THAT CIGARETTE?

Getting lung cancer?
Lighting it?

Sucking on it?

Enjoying smooth flavor of Laramie cigarettes
It's actually a leftover pack of cloves, but whatever.
You hipster, you.
I've moved on to American Spirits as my go-to, so I've maintained some of my street cred.
I'm disappointed in all of you.

Not one of you suggested that I would be eating it.

I watched a woman do that at a party.

Fucking nasty

This is an excellent stand-alone comment.
Fisting it?
Appropriate response for beer, but no.
More interesting than bLoweing Smoak am I rite?
It makes me Leuke cool.
Lueke.

That’s going to take some getting used to.

Jack really likes consemating things
Hard to confirm

He’s only got one kid.

I never said that he succeeds
Cliff's gonna speak at the presser

WATCH NOW.

Cliff will be on the presser shortly, it seems.

Parting glances…

His flight is in a hour and a half :(

Who wants to go send him off? Hugs?

I'm happy in part because the Yankees would have made him shave.
DAMNIT CLIFF DON'T LEAVE ME
LOCK THE DOORS
He sounds sad.
He's still sort of smiling?
On occasion. When someone asks a dumb question.
I think you're projecting because he looked like he was hiding back his happiness.
This is making me sad :(

I wanted this to be like ripping off a band-aid.

God Cliff Lee just seems like such a cool dude and is an amazing pitcher

I’m going to miss him so much :(

He's probably the only person I know who could make "I'm a Ranger now" sound vaguely cool.
.

I couldn't remember him saying that but the possibility is open.

I only hope that this does not spawn a “Cliff Lee Facts” meme.

You just blew my fucking mind.
I just want to hang out with him and have him teach me about life

We could drink beer together, maybe go to a concert, maybe hold hands and watch the sunset.

I think he should take up the guitar.
I'm sure he's already excellent at the guitar

I mean, Cliff Lee.

And what a singing voice, I mean seriously.
YOU GET THE FUCK OFF, HES MINE
Realistically you can have him

I just know he would break my heart in the worst way.

Listening to Jack....

sounds like he thinks Smoak needs some AB’s in AAA….or at least he’s laying the foundation to justify sending him to AAA.

Anyone know his super two status off-hand?
Long ways from that....

He wouldn’t even have 1 year after this season. This is all free time at the moment.

I know that.

I merely raise it as a suggestion because I think it might factor into Jack’s decision-making there.

If he never gets sent down to the minors, wouldn't he be almost assured of being a super-two?

He just missed the cut-off by maybe 10 or 12 days this year, so by 2013, he’ll have two years plus about 160 days. I think that would just about clinch it for him.

I think so.
Cliff Lee pitching for the Rangers may aid us in the Rendon sweepstakes.
We're not getting Rendon
Cole then.

Fuck the Yankees twice over.

Double fucked!
I wish, but shit the Orioles are putrid.
Seriously, we have to really suck it up to reach that level.
It's unrealistic.

The Orioles could call up Tillman though.

In that case I hope the entire team contracts AIDS and those who have it get rabies.
Wasn't he up earlier this year?

Or was that last year?

Yes.
Uhh... to which question?
That was my way of saying that both were accurate.
Quit asking fucking Yankees questions!
Lee looks all muscle-y in that t-shirt, what a babe.
Damn....

Jack just said on KIRO that Cortes was throwing 99 the other day.

I know Cortes has no clue where the ball is going, but we got him for Yuni.

In his last five starts....

Cortes has had good to great command in three and walked seven in two.

Fucking hilarious.

We got a living breathing player for Yuni.

We used to have two.
Did Saito die?
He hasn't pitched all season, it's possible.
Stick him in the pen.

At WTN, I mean. He’s never gonna be a starter. We can hope for David Aardsma.

See my comment about about his last five starts.

Most of the season, I would agree with you. Now, I’m wondering a bit.

Smile for a smile(?)

Make those spin and we'll talk.
The non-smoakies are all going to WTN....

So are we reasonably certain that Ackley is headed to Tacoma?

If you're assuming that Lawson to West Tenn.

It’s possible he could end up in High Desert for a little while. Their infield has been hurting lately.

Accoring to the Omnipotent one...

all 3 are going to WTN.

Not surprising really.

The Jaxx have really be struggling with their pitching lately since Pineda was called up. This gives the double-A team a better chance to compete. Just saying.

I was looking forward to seeing Lee off at Safeco today.

And now MLB.com lists David Pauley as the probable.

Sigh…

I work next door to a bar

And right as I was leaving a friend of mine who works there came in and told me the trade to Texas. My first thought was no, not Texas, ANYONE but Texas (even the Yankees would have been better), but my second thought was if they did trade him to a division rival, they had to have gotten an absolute pile in return. I’m not looking forward to Lee pitching against the Mariners this year, which is all but assured with him going to a division rival. Chances are probably good he’ll pitch in Seattle some time, which is gonna suck. I was hoping for Smoak and Saltalamacchia to be among the haul if the trade was with Texas. I trust Zdurencik enough that these three other guys are potential stars, so this could wind up being a great, great trade.

None of the other players are potential stars.
No, probably not

I’d rather have had Salt than the other three, but I guess our farm system isn’t exactly brimming with depth at the moment and some more low MLB-level/ high AAA-level talent helps. This also gives us something else to include as secondary pieces in any other trade we go after.

Where's the Salt love coming from?

Salty and Chris Davis could take turns keeping each other cool with how often they fan.

Then why this particular trade?

Or is that what everyone’s asking?

Lee will get a standing ovation after 1-hitting the M's at Safeco in September

Count on it.

Smoak will get the hit.
Can't decide if I would rather have been here for this mess or not

I left thinking the Yankees had him and we had an awesome deal. I’m having trouble processing this all at once.

I think Beaven is as good as McAllister, personally. Leuke certainly runs some sick K rates and could be in our pen next year. Still prefer the Yankees deal but it’s easy to be allured by the huge potential of Montero.

Dave and Churchill both seem to prefer this deal, interestingly.

A lot of people like Smoak more than Montero (including, I would assume, Z), despite Montero being much higher ranked as a prospect.

I'm also in that boat.

It’s strange because the three of us aren’t generally in agreement, I don’t think.

Blah.

The longer I look at Beavan’s K rate, the less I like this trade (compared to the original).

Well...

McAllister’s K rate was bad as well and Beaven walks less and seems to get more groundballs.

I’d say Beaven > McAllister.

That is just it, Montero was ranked higher by sportswriters

Obviously, the Mariners scouts and Z have different ideas.

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