People have told me that true love is never smooth. That there will always be speedbumps, and that, when a couple truly loves one another, one of them will always rise to the challenge and fight to preserve the relationship. Other people have told me that love - real love - is easy. That it never feels like a chore or a burden, and that every day is bliss.
Cliff Lee's brief time in Seattle definitely fell in with the latter. Even given his injury, it was never a challenge. There were never any hurdles. Watching Cliff Lee was paradise. In that regard, as baseball players go, Lee kind of felt like my soul mate. Everything about him was perfect. Everything about his skillset, his performance, and his personality was exactly how I would design my perfect pitcher.
And now he's gone. Off to strengthen a division rival as the Rangers look to win their first-ever playoff series and compete for the title. Even if it's right to set free what you love in circumstances such as this, that doesn't make the right thing easy. Who cares if our relationship with Lee was headed for an inevitable end? A big part of me wanted to drag this son of a bitch out as long as possible. Every day that Cliff Lee wasn't traded was another day that Cliff Lee was a Seattle Mariner. He was one of the few things to make me genuinely happy about this team.
Alas, we knew a trade was coming eventually, and I suppose I should be thankful that this whole circus was limited to one single day. Granted, we've been dealing with rumors for weeks, but never rumors like today's. Never rumors like the ones to which I woke up. We didn't have to deal with days of hot rumors of Lee going to New York, days of hot rumors of talks falling apart, and days of hot rumors of Lee going to Texas. We knocked it all out in a handful of hours. The efficiency lessens the pain.
Now then. With everything we've heard throughout the day, there's a natural inclination to compare what the Mariners got from the Rangers to what the Mariners might have gotten from the Yankees. It's perfectly sensible. We had two and maybe three names from New York. We have four names from Texas. Why not see how the two packages stack up? Doing so allows the fan to do a fan's favorite thing - evaluate a decision made by his favorite team's front office. The first thing anyone wants to know about any team decision is whether it was good or bad, and today's events readily present an opportunity for such an assessment.
I'd encourage you to avoid that urge, though. Ignore it. I'm not saying it isn't interesting to compare the return the M's got to the return the M's might've gotten. But we just don't know the details. We don't know if there was more than we've been told. More importantly, we don't know the reasons behind the front office changing course. I mean, we know the reason was Justin Smoak, but we don't know what the FO thinks about Jesus Montero or any of the other guys. This is one scenario where you really, really ought to defer to the organization. It's one thing to talk about big league players with long big league track records. We know what those players are all about. But prospects? Jack Zduriencik and many of his assistants are renowned for their scouting prowess, and if they believe a certain thing about Montero, or Smoak, or Adams, or Beavan, or whoever, then who am I to disagree? I can have my opinions, but my opinions are worth less than theirs, because they are better informed. That's the end of it. If they prefer Smoak and the rest to Montero and the rest, I can question their call, but I'm in no position to say it was good or bad. This, of all things, is their strength.
So with that in mind, let's set aside any comparisons and just look at what the Mariners are bringing back. In return for Cliff Lee, Mark Lowe, and some money, the newest members of the organization are:
Justin Smoak
Smoak is a 23 year old switch-hitting first baseman with 275 plate appearances of Major League experience. The numbers aren't great, but they're fueled by a low BABIP, and more importantly, Smoak isn't a franchise cornerstone because of what he can do now. He's a franchise cornerstone because of what he could do in 2011 or 2014. That he's a switch-hitter is awesome. He's drawn walks everywhere, with a good eye and still a fairly advanced ability to make contact. He's an average to above-average defender in the field, meaning we don't have to talk about him as a DH. And the power is coming. You can look at the 17 minor league home runs and come away unimpressed, but he's young, he has the right body, he has the right swing, and he's already on a 17-home pace over 600 big league PAs. Potential is by definition never a guarantee, but he's a very good bet to end up an annual candidate to go deep 20-25 times while getting on base a ton and flashing a solid glove. Smoak's a special talent. What he lacks in unfathomable upside, he gains in certainty. There is very, very little chance that Justin Smoak doesn't succeed.
Blake Beavan
The secondary, lesser prize, Beavan's a 21 year old righty who just got promoted to AAA. Statistically, what you need to know is that, over 17 starts in AA, he walked just 2.8% of the batters he faced while striking out 15.7%. He hasn't generated many whiffs, but he's been very good about avoiding the free pass. Beyond the performance, the first thing you notice is that he's 6'7, meaning he's releasing the ball closer to the plate than the average pitcher. The former first round pick has undergone some organizationally-directed changes to his mechanics, and now works with a fastball in the 89-93 range, a changeup he likes, and a slider. He does have some groundball tendencies. It is worth noting that, since making 15 starts in AA a year ago, Beavan's strikeout rate at the same level in 2010 nearly doubled. Though young, Beavan is a "safe" bet to make the bigs as a back-of-the-rotation starter, and with continued development, he also has moderate upside. Not altogether very far away.
Josh Lueke
Let's just come right out and say it - Lueke has both a phenomenal minor league strikeout rate and one big off-the-field red flag. I don't know Josh Lueke. You don't know Josh Lueke. Please do not rush to judge Josh Lueke. Don't pretend like any of us has any understanding of the details of what happened that night. What we do know is that the righty reliever has just dominated this year with A-ball Hickory and AA-ball Frisco. He works primary off of a fastball in the mid-90s and a mid-80s slider, and he throws a splitter to keep lefties off balance. It's not a stretch to think that he could help the Mariners out of the bullpen next season, if not immediately.
Matt Lawson
The fourth piece is the least exciting, but though Lawson is a 24 year old with only decent numbers in AA, he isn't without his upside. He's capable of drawing a walk, he has a fair amount of power, and Baseball America last year called him the best defensive second baseman in the California League, an award that is supported by Lawson's numbers. His ceiling isn't very high, but he could rise quickly and has a shot at being a regular (albeit probably not here). More likely, he could turn into a utility guy. It's the defense that makes Lawson interesting.
-----
That's the package. In return, the Mariners gave up Lee - which we knew was coming - money - which I don't really care about - and Mark Lowe, who's out with a significant back injury and has two remaining years of team control. Lowe's inclusion is a surprise, but I've been waiting for him to get dealt for two years, and though his stuff is obviously dynamite, remember everything about reliever unpredictability. Who's going to be the better big league reliever next year: Lowe, or Lueke? Or Brian Sweeney? Who knows? Unless we're talking about someone truly elite, I don't think I'll ever shed much of a tear over losing an arm from the bullpen.
I'm not going to concern myself with whether or not the Mariners won or lost this trade. That doesn't interest me. It doesn't interest me whether the Rangers won or lost, either. They obviously surrendered one hell of a prospect, but then, Lee stands to help them more than he probably could've helped any other team in the bigs, and they've got a real shot at this. The Texas Rangers were already World Series contenders. Now they're World Series contenders with Cliff Lee. It's okay to sacrifice some future for the present when the present is as promising as it is for those guys.
Good for the Rangers. Bad for the Angels, who just got buried even more, and bad for the Yankees, who missed out on a chance to widen the gap to a level that's completely unfair. Allow me a minute to weep. Hmm. Something appears to be wrong with the waterworks.
As for the Mariners, this rare intra-divisional megatrade brought in good, long-term talent, and good, long-term talent is what a team in our position needs. It hurts. It does. You're never prepared to lose a guy like Cliff Lee, even when you know for absolute sure that the moment is coming. It's going to hurt to watch him in another uniform. A rival's uniform. But Smoak's a huge piece - far better than anything the team gave up to get Lee in the first place - and all in all, I'm probably about as happy as I could've been about a deal that sends Lee away. I'm not quite sure how the team's going to weave Smoak into the lineup around Milton Bradley, Russell Branyan, and Michael Saunders, but it's an exciting thing to wonder.
2 recs | 270 comments
It really, really sucks that we lost Cliff Lee
but now at least we can fall in love with Smoak’s DINGERS for the next six years.
craig3410 - July 9, 2010
I was thinking about saying that I genuinely loved Cliff Lee
but I couldn’t figure out how to make it sound not creepy.
Matthew - July 9, 2010
You're worried about creepy?
Here? Here where people routinely admit their latent gay tendencies by offer fellatio to whatever ball player performs well for them?
Oh go on. Creep us the hell out, Matthew. I think we can take it.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
99.99% of that is exaggeration for comedic effect.
I think I might actually love Cliff Lee
Matthew - July 9, 2010
I SAW HIM FIRST
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
How do you figure?
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Yeah! Yeah... um... it's all exaggeration... heh heh heh...
/sigh
…yeah…
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
You're weird
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
I would go gay for Cliff Lee.
SeaKoala - July 9, 2010
It certainly is a hard tightrope to walk.
Robert - July 9, 2010
How often does a team trade for one of your favorite players? For me personally, this was a dream come true.
I thought for sure we’d be getting a higher ceiling pitcher with him, but hey – I’ll take it. Cliff Lee for Justin Smoak is enough for me.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I'm in the same boat.
I made my peace with the fact that Cliff Lee was just a one season mercenary a long time ago, and while it was a joy to watch him pitch, I love this move.
FairWeatherFred - July 9, 2010
So let's talk about first basemen.
Kotchman = Trade bait?
Branyan = Bradley insurance at DH for rest of the season and 2011? Or is he trade bait?
Carp = Trade bait? Probably an “extra” piece thrown in to whatever deal, just like he was when we got him.
Bnelson = AAAA fodder, who cares.
Limonta = Buried. Another “throw in” trade candidate?
Poythress = Couple of years away, but Smoak will still be here. DH candidate long term now or also trade bait?
Raben = DH candidate after his surgery, but if he and Poythress make life interesting, this could become a “problem”.
Everybody below that isn’t worth considering as they’re too far off right now. But we do have some others down there who may be blocked by Smoak as well.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Drayer thinks Kotchman is tradebait, and that Branyan & Bradley split DH while the Ms see how things work out
msb - July 9, 2010
Kotchman is extremely likely as trade bait.
Even if someone would only use him in the Doug Mientkiewicz role.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
He'd make a good defensive substitution for a contending team that has defensive questions with their regular first baseman
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
I'm actually somewhat surprised he, instead of Lowe, didn't go to Texas.
But whatever. He probably ends up on an NL team where he can also pinch hit if needed.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Pinch hitting role in the National League, as well.
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
Find the NL team that could use both, maybe we have something
nathaniel dawson - July 9, 2010
Which team is going to blow a roster spot on a defensive specialist at first base?
vivaelpujols - July 9, 2010
Didn't Boston do that with Mienak....Eye-chart a few years ago?
Not much to hope for, but this is baseball, after all. You never know.
nathaniel dawson - July 10, 2010
As far as I can tell from Zduriencik's post-conference interview, the negotiations over the last week with the Rangers went:
JZ: Smoak.
JD: No.
JZ: Smoak.
JD: No.
JZ: Smoak.
JD: No.
JZ: Smoak.
JD: No.
JZ: Smoak.
JD: No.
JZ: Smoak.
JD: Yes.
JZ: Squuueeeeee!!!!!
msb - July 9, 2010
Which is funny, since he mentioned that when you're in trade discussions, you basically KNOW what someone is willing to give up.
So maybe Z knew Daniels more than Daniels knows Daniels.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Man, that must be scary for other GMs.
Jon S. - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Doubt it.
You don’t have to know anything to call back.
Plus, for all we know, Jack was basically ready to pull the trigger once he heard “Montero” and while they were hammering out details like Zack whatevethefuckhisnameisIdon’tcareanymore, Josh Daniels called up and said “Let’s talk about Justin Smoak.”
philosofool - July 9, 2010
Yep. It was the "walking off the lot" effect.
lemonverbena - July 9, 2010
The mental image of Jack going "SQUEE" and waving his arms around makes the trade that much better.
JY - July 9, 2010
Look! Jack's negotiating!
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
He looks like he's in a rap battle.
Decatur - July 10, 2010
Hmm, then Blake Beavan will probably like him.
See?
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
It's over now.
Go drink many beers.
Thingray - July 9, 2010
Moscow mules for me tonight!
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
When I heard Smoak was in the works
I put a 2 and a half year old Barleywine that I made at my bachelor party in the fridge. It’s one of four remaining. I said I’d drink it today if we got Smoak.
I will be drinking world class, unique beer for this event.
philosofool - July 9, 2010
YES
Have some.
Dougula - July 9, 2010
If it was to the Yankees,
I’d be at the Abbey right now, watching the game, out of my gourd, and probably sobbing every time Lee took the mound, waving my lighter around until they escorted me from the premises blubbering.
As it stands, I’m sober and having an enjoyable evening.
JY - July 9, 2010
I'm still soft of torn between Montero and Smoak's upsides
But Smoak being ready to take over at first right away is huge
killer_ewok18 - July 9, 2010
Yeah, Im having a hard time with that one. However, the handedness and defense ease my mind
Rudy4three - July 9, 2010
I can't believe MLB pulled a trade involving six guys, all of them white.
Cliff, Mark, Justin, Blake, Josh and Matt? It’s an AL West Boy Band
Matthew - July 9, 2010
Reverse busing.
The league realized the Mariners are already high on the hog with ethnicity, so they decided to shove some “minorities” on us.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
I'm pretty sure Matt Lawton is black.
_David_ - July 9, 2010
Smoakin!
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
From this point forward all Smoak puns are banned
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
I got mine in before the bell!
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
So Justin time?
Yeah, that one’s old.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
What a unLaHair decision
Matthew - July 9, 2010
I don't think you'll enforce
Just blowing smoke up our asses
Graham MacAree - July 9, 2010
I don't Leuke that very much
Nick S - July 9, 2010
It's an unfair Lawson
Nick S - July 9, 2010
You need to all stop mis-beavan.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Does this at all sound like "misbehavin'" like it does in my head? Its a stretch.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
LOL!
Puns!!
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Sounds like someone's feeling a little low
Nick S - July 9, 2010
LESS INSULIN, JEFF
.Taylor - July 9, 2010
YOU MEAN LOWE?!?
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
With the alley-oop!
Nick S - July 9, 2010
Swish!
Aw fuck.
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
Hmmm.. I don't have a good feeling about this.
Considering that he’s going to go yard about 30 times a season, that’s 30 times in a game thread that people will have to avoid it. I’ll happily yell “sex” or “sexual explosion” or “God, that is so hot” but that’s just me.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Sex is what you yell for a smoak homerun from now on?
Or boom goes the dynamite?
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
I'm going to be yelling a lot of things for Smoak homers.
“Wow that is the sexiest thing I’ve ever seen!”
“I am so horny from watching that sex-blast”
“I’m so hot from that, I’m questioning myself. Dear God, I’m questioning my own sexuality from a home run, what is wrong with me? I can’t stop, I can’t stop!”
and “Home run!”
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
What about
“I FUZCKING LOVE YOU CLIFF LEE!!!!”
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
Goddammit.
See, I love him so much his initial is randomly sneaking into my typing.
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
Better than sex references after a Lueke strikeout...
tait644 - July 9, 2010
I just don't know what he Lueke's like yet. Otherwise who knows.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Does refering to him as "The Smoak Monster" count?
Because that’s a nickname, not a pun, but I could see it construed as a pun.
SethGrandpa - July 9, 2010
It seems like a pun to me, though I love the nickname.
Technically the name is “Smoke Monster” from the ABC hit television show L O S T. Because that has now been changed to “Smoak Monster” you are changing the spelling of the word to create the same sound but with a different context. If you were to say “Smoak on the water” this would be the same.
PS – don’t take this as me being a dick, just fucking around.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
?
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
We gotta get that shopped.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
More like stopped.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
I've seen it shopped before.
Decatur - July 10, 2010
Are you smoking yet?
THolt - July 9, 2010
I think what Jeff is trying to say is:
No Smoaking
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
HOW DO YOU NOT FUCKING GET IT
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Really? I'm not even a pun guy. I honestly thought this would be a good way to put a phrase to stop the puns when people bring it up.
Though, “No puns” works too.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
I think "all Smoak puns are banned" is pretty clear
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
You put this up Justin time to stop all the Smoak puns before they could build up steam
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
My brother made this pun when he was five
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
I'm guessing you punched him when he did
get to work.
pdb - July 9, 2010
Ugh, you may want to read through this thread.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
I'm with you on this.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
high five!
CapSea - July 9, 2010
... don't leave me hanging
CapSea - July 9, 2010
(Pity five!)
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Smoak hasn't even played one game for the Mariners. Thanks a lot, guys...
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Justin Smoak is a promising young baseball player!
I find his surname unremarkable!
lemonverbena - July 9, 2010
On one hand I hate puns and especially Smoak ones but on the other they are now banned.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Dilemma!
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Forbidden fruit is always the most tasty.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Yes, because it's puns that are too low-brow for LL
Snuffleupagus - July 9, 2010
All puns are terrible unless Last Fan Of Jose Lopez makes them.
Robert - July 9, 2010
I tend to agree
I guess I just think it’s a silly Rule, as opposed to a ‘this meme is dead’-style no one thinks it’s funny situation. Those seem to take care of themselves around here. If no one laughs at the joke, people stop making it.
Snuffleupagus - July 9, 2010
I'm not actually going to go around and ban people who make Smoak puns
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
So theres Smoak but no fire?
I feel terrible now.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I'm 104% sure that was not an invitation to make the pun anyway.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
I deserve whatever I get, I really do.
the other side - July 9, 2010
Knowing this takes all of the fun out of it :(
Robert - July 9, 2010
It's a trap!
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
It takes a kind of amazing cleverness to make a pun appreciated.
Most of these are just too easy and, thus, not funny. I guess the point is, if your five year old can come up with it, it’s not funny. Otherwise, funny!
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
You can tell by the constant flow of rape jokes
Snuffleupagus - July 9, 2010
Nobody cares about lowbrow. People care about being annoyed.
Teej - July 9, 2010
I'd like to point out that the rape jokes are also being kaboshed.
Or are attempted to.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
I can tell from the rec'd comments below these
Snuffleupagus - July 9, 2010
I got a few in earlier, I'm satisfied.
Eyeball Kid - July 9, 2010
That Yankees offer sure went up in
airborne particles emitted during pyrolysis.
FlaskInSafeco - July 9, 2010
I was really looking forward to making a Smoak-Gilster pun that was inspired by medical demonstration in Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
Decatur - July 10, 2010
*Smoak-Glister
Decatur - July 10, 2010
Aw gay
Poochie - July 10, 2010
Smoak'em if you got'em!
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
You're on notice
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
I hope I haven't come off as too negative since I woke up from my ill-timed nap
Even assuming we know everything, which Jeff is right that we might not; the difference between the Yankees and Rangers packages isn’t huge, and we still significantly improved the organization going forward.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
At the expense of a division rival, no less.
Henry H - July 9, 2010
If 710 podcasts the hour, there is an extended interview with Zduriencik from after the press-conference that is interesting
including his off-hand remark about talking with Lee’s agent before the season to see what parameters they were thinking of … apparently very large parameters.
msb - July 9, 2010
He mentioned that in the televised presser too.
He tried to dodge it without revealing too much and without making Lee look bad. Jack Z is a good person.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
So Cliff, we want you to give up on free agency and control of you life after you got dicked around.... how much?
Cliff : $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
"Dicked around"?
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
He always gave me the impression that he thought Philly did him wrong with the contract negotiations
Listening to the interview today really brought home how much he is going to enjoy deciding where he goes.
brokejumper - July 9, 2010
He's been passed around the league like a cheap joint
I’m hoping he finds somewhere he can be happy and stay for a while, as long as that isn’t Texas.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
Or NY
Because fuck those guys.
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
I think he would really love St Louis.
msb - July 9, 2010
Me too!
vivaelpujols - July 9, 2010
Yeah
I am glad he didn’t land in NY. I wouldn’t want them to have the chance to brain-wash him into wanting to sign there at the end of the season.
d0nkey - July 9, 2010
Seriously - how does a guy of his talent play for 4 teams in less than two years?
tait644 - July 9, 2010
2 of the teams suck
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
Dear New York Yankees and Los Angeles Anaheim Disneyland Orange County California Angels,
On behalf of the Seattle Mariners, Texas Rangers, and the fans of those two organizations, I cordially invite you to suck on it.
I Lick Squirrels - July 9, 2010
Permission to rec this 5 times myself please.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
The only thing I didn't like about this deal
I wish they waited about 2 more days just so Cliff could have beaten the Yanks one more time in an M’s uniform.
Henry H - July 9, 2010
I'm not concerned with who would have been the better pickup, Montero or Smoak.
I’m just glad we got a truly elite prospect in return. My biggest fear was getting a quantity over quality package or a couple “B” prospects.
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
Wilson Ramos!
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Fuck Wilson Ramos!
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
So when does Justin get here?
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
In the lineup tomorrow, supposedly.
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
Everyday first baseman!
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Yep, Jack said he'd be here tomorrow.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Jeff is going to kill me.
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
I had to read this twice to realise there was no pun in it.
JY - July 9, 2010
Amen brother.
scooter4 - July 9, 2010
Congrats to the M's,
i hope you love Smoak as much as i did.
And perhaps it will please you to know instead of enjoying the Rangers game tonight i will be drying the tears of my 6 and 4 y/o girls b/c Smoak is gone.
red3biggs - July 9, 2010
They'll fall in love with Cliff tomorrow. If they don't, there's something wrong with them.
joey90 - July 9, 2010
I took trades pretty poorly when I was little.
End of July was never a good time.
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
Cried when Jose Cruz Jr. was dealt
And then promptly bought up every baseball card of his I could find.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Fuck that trade.
Even with Jose Cruz Jr. not being that awesome, terrible fucking trade.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
What does this mean for tonight's game?
I wanted to got and watch Lee’s last start. If he’s not pitching, I’m thinking of holding out for Felix day.
Murray, Present - July 9, 2010
He is not pitching.
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
Boy are you in for a surprise.
Pauley/French tag team!
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
Oh joy.
Eh, it’s a nice day.
Murray, Present - July 9, 2010
I just heard a Cliff Lee commerical on 710 espn
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
Man...imagine if Lueke can be lights out in the bigs.
The rape jokes will flow around here like a fountain.
SethGrandpa - July 9, 2010
Lueke really knows how to use the force.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
Lueke doesn't know the meaning of stop.
He just pounds the zone.
Scruffy Lefty - July 9, 2010
That's so naughty!
Rec!
bmxnw - July 9, 2010
Considering this is going to be banned in about 5 fucking seconds.
I’ll just stay out of it.
(Not a phrase Lueke ever uses)
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010
Lueke "tweeted" that he is going to the Mariners
Everyone needs to follow him.
Marinerfanjake - July 9, 2010
I don't think we'll be seeing many rape jokes. We may joke about larger, public tragedies sometimes (9/11, Utah miners, the Holocaust) because we're mocking the emotional exploitation of those events.
Rape, though, relentlessly, horrifyingly personal and many (perhaps even most) of its victims around the world suffer in silence, shame, or worse because of it.
Decatur - July 10, 2010
It is starting to sink in that we'll likely never have Cliff Lee again. Sigh.
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Aside from the prospects, which seem like a great haul, I'm also pleased this should put the final nail in the coffin for the Angels hopes this season. :-)
Hard to lose Lee, but all things considered, I’m happy about this. Also, it doesn’t seem likely the Rangers will have the money to keep Lee, so he’ll probably still hit the free agent market. Had he gone to the Yankees, that might have not been the case. So at least the M’s still have a modicum of a chance to re-sign him.
“1 in a million”, “so you’re saying there’s a chance!” :-)
TIFO - July 9, 2010
Slick fielding 1b prospect. Undeveloped power, but great bat control with an outstanding eye.
It’s 2004 Casey Kotchman!
Manzanillos Cup - July 9, 2010
Not funny
tait644 - July 9, 2010
Smoak is a weeeeee bit more of a finished product than Kotchman was.
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
Kotchman was basically a "Can't Miss" prospect.
Look at his age 20 and 21 seasons.
Manzanillos Cup - July 9, 2010
Cliff Lee could be injured for the year with a rare aggressive gonorrhea.
If you base all your decision on a worst case scenario, you will never do anything.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
I'm not implying that this has any relevance to Smoak.
Kotchman had big injury concerns early on. But he was an elite prospect.
Manzanillos Cup - July 9, 2010
In that case I have no idea what your point is.
CapSea - July 9, 2010
It's that Smoak has a 100% chance to be a bust!
Manzanillos Cup - July 9, 2010
I think Jeff and Matthew's articles have kept me sane today at work. Much appreciated guys.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Hell, it might've been Cliff's choice to go to the Rangers
Maybe the FO said that the packages were basically similar and they gave him the choice of whether to go to New York or Arlington.
Maybe he was a Rangers fan growing up; I forgot how close Benton was to Dallas.
craig3410 - July 9, 2010
You're reaching
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
Yeah, I probably am.
I just didn’t realize how close Dallas was to his hometown.
Hell, I didn’t realize how close I was; I’m in the NW corner. Might have to take a trip down to see him.
craig3410 - July 9, 2010
There is still something interesting to all this.
Larry Stone pointed out earlier that he had a hard time believing the Mariners would pass on the Yankee deal just because someone’s ankle was a problem. Obviously the last minute addition of Smoak to the Ranger deal is what made Z change his mind.
So we basically have two possible truths:
1). Z really really really really likes Smoak. More than Montero.
2). Z really really really really didn’t want to deal Lee to New York.
Could be both I guess, but since there wasn’t a better deal, he had to deal with the Evil Empire. Thank God Daniels caved.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
I'm much more inclined to believe 1.
Teej - July 9, 2010
2 is more scandalous. Ergo, I like it more.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
I like the explanation #3,
where the packages are similar, but the Texas deal does more long-term damage to a division foe.
FlaskInSafeco - July 9, 2010
Nevermind the fact that his ERA (I know...) in Arlington is the highest out of any park
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Because Arlington is a fucking joke of a ballpark and everyone's ERA is highest there?
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
You guys can have this now
I made this a couple months ago. I’m sad I wont get to use it anymore.
Pocket Ninja - July 9, 2010
WOW!
THAT’S A BIG GIF!
(smaller please)
And oh goodness… more puns? You just scrolled straight to the bottom, didn’t you?
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
Hahaha I get it becuase his last name sounds like smoke.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
Huh? It does?
flashbeak - July 9, 2010
I think so but we need a second opinion.
Fogel?
Kirk - July 9, 2010
Let's ask Katal.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
He's busy staring at his hand
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Yeah it took me like a week to come up with it.
Sittin’ out at my ranch with my big boots on.
I must be high.
Y’all take care now. Ya hear?
Pocket Ninja - July 9, 2010
I didn't mean to offend you but since you took it that way, goodbye!
Kirk - July 9, 2010
I was taking a shot at myself
As in, “yeah what a stretch of the imagination”………The video editing did take me a while though.
Pocket Ninja - July 9, 2010
I did like the smoke.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
haha
Mike E - July 9, 2010
It's not Smow-ack?
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
I kind of like the Magnum PI font there.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
I'll like this better when he's .giffed in a Mariner's uniform.
FlaskInSafeco - July 9, 2010
Since Brandon League is a functionally retarded horse monkey, Blake Beavan is now my new bullpen crush.
Robert - July 9, 2010
A...horse monkey?
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
No no.. a RETARDED horse monkey
Simple mistake.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
This but retarded.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
That is a monkey on a horse
And they both appear to be mentally sound
flashbeak - July 9, 2010
No that's a horse monkey.
And yes it is mentally sound.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
Beavan is a starter.
Rollo Tomasi - July 9, 2010
He is a reliever in my brain.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Horse monkey?
Thats a new one.
the other side - July 9, 2010
x
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Slightly less of a bullpen crush*
Robert - July 9, 2010
Aw god dammit
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
WHY IS EVERY MARINER A GOD DAMNED RETARD
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Cliff Lee wasn't
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
NOT A MARINER
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Blake's also got the nastiest slider he's ever seen
although no one’s seen it since high school….
red3biggs - July 9, 2010
We will make sure it is never seen again.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I like to think that Ichiro is intelligent behind the glaring homosexuality.
the other side - July 9, 2010
I remember Chris Tillman's myspace.
JY - July 9, 2010
It's ok! That is from 3 years ago.. He MUST have matured since then!
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
That's a bigger ring than anybody in the Mariners clubhouse has.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Oh shit.
It looks douchey.
the other side - July 9, 2010
After he was drafted he said
That his slider was the best slider he had ever seen
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
And that he wouldn't suck as much as the Rangers starters at that time,
or something like that.
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
yep
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Well now I like him again
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
x
link
JonBBT - July 9, 2010
You already took Cliff Lee from us, don't rub it in :(
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
You took Justin Smoak away from me :(
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
On the upside, that doesn't look QUITE as bad as Taijuan Walker's Myspace page did
Jeff Nye - July 9, 2010
A dude that was drafted this year still has a Myspace?
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
I believe the newest market inefficiency is checking up on potential draftees' Facebooks.
I wonder if a team’s ever planned to draft a player, saw what they put on their MySpace/Facebook/etc., and then gone “Nope, we don’t need this”?
craig3410 - July 9, 2010
I'd be blown away if most teams weren't doing this on some level.
It has to be part of the scouting process. Particularly in baseball, where makeup is so important and teams are trying to make sure they find any red flags. Whether or not it’s fair to judge someone that way . . . eh, that’s a discussion for another time/place. But I have to imagine teams look at stuff like that at some point.
Teej - July 9, 2010
I think a red flag is having a Myspace page as an 18 year old male.
MT Olson - July 9, 2010
What 18-year-old didn't have a MySpace page two years ago?
Teej - July 9, 2010
Two years ago?
Didn’t we just draft him? Myspace is not a big thing anymore.
MT Olson - July 9, 2010
Reading comprehension fail on my part. Thought we were talking about Beavan.
Teej - July 9, 2010
I like him.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
Thats because you are a lackadaisical stoner that likes to dress like a douche bag.
Robert - July 9, 2010
His hat's brim isn't flat enough.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
Kirk Harbaugh sure is
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Someday I'll kill you.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
As I ride my bike in front of a drive through window
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
I do not work at a drive through believe it or not.
Kirk - July 9, 2010
You're such a lazy Mexican.
Eyebrows - July 9, 2010 via mobile
Not what I meant
http://www.slate.com/id/2148999
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
He strikes me as the type of person that has multiple Tech N9ne CDs in his Volkswagon Golf.
Robert - July 9, 2010
Tech N9ne is where it's at
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
Seems like a chill bro.
sanford_and_son - July 9, 2010
Here is a decent little interview
Seems like a decent guy. here
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
I've suddenly forgotten all about Randy Messenger
Aaron Campeau - July 9, 2010
Wow that there is a douchebag
OlSalty - July 9, 2010
Josh Lueke is raking in the Twitter followers right now
Looks like around 50 in the last half hour or so.
seattlesundevil - July 9, 2010
So I kinda wanted the trade with the yankees to go through,
Just so it could be said that the only person worth trading Cliff Lee for was Jesus. But now I’ll just have to settle for a Justin Smoak, better than Jesus motto.
themanleyman - July 9, 2010
Quotes from the Seattle Mariners Facebook fan page for your amusement:
“No they traded Lee to the TexAsss rangers for a looser named Smoak hence blowing smoak up are ARS!”
“wow how dumb can yall be…every talent weve had in seattle weve traded away…so we fans shouldnt be surprised! this is classic mariner baseball! griffey, a-rod, randy johnson, cliff lee, dont be surprised if ichiro os gone next year!”
“Why would we trade Lee to a team in our own division?!?!?”
“Can’t wait for the guy batting just .209 with 8 HRs to join the club.”
“Why trade Lee to the best AL west team? So we can never win?”
“Are you serious johnno? It was idiotic stupid we need to keep our good players he’s the best player that was on our team and the best pitcher in the MLB stupid so stupid we did that "
flashbeak - July 9, 2010
For your health, stay away from there.
The Typical Idiot Fan - July 9, 2010
Holy fucking shit.
I read about 5 comments from the page and almost killed someone. Are Mariner fans this ignorant? Damn
the other side - July 9, 2010
This is the main thing I have learned from today
Mariners fans are dumb beyond belief.
I try really hard to underestimate baseball fans when thinking about a lot of baseball issues (broadcasters use of ERA – PR moves etc.). But Imade the mistake of listening to talk radio today, and wow. My brain hurts. If it weren’t for LL and USSMariner, today would be a horribly depressing day.
Snuffleupagus - July 9, 2010
Yep.
My personal fave was one on Yahoo blogs where a fan was pissed off that we did not get Hamilton and Vlad for Lee. He’s gonna boycott the M’s now…
Henry H - July 9, 2010
It isn't just Mariner fans.
there are a lot of scarily stupid people in the world.
msb - July 9, 2010
I would have had this line of thinking when i was 18 maybe.
The scary part is that most of these fans are much older than that and never grow out of it.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010 via mobile
I know one of those type of people!
Robert - July 9, 2010
I just watched the King 5 report on Lee
Jesus fuck what the fuck is wrong with Mariners fans.
“We need to win, we need Lee”
“Why are we trading Lee, he’s good. We should trade Brandon League, he’s pitching bad”
Brian Floyd - July 9, 2010
John Hicks, on the 710 Roundtable, didn't like the trade because of how it effects the roster for the rest of 2010
John, that’s not how you evaluate a trade for a non-contender
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
John Hickey?
msb - July 9, 2010
Sure
That’s what I meant
Griffin Cooper - July 9, 2010
That's one reason why I don't follow the M's on Facebook.
JY - July 9, 2010
I really feel bad for the front office
They have to try to appeal to dumbfucks like this.
Matt Erickson - July 10, 2010
Congrats Mariner fans
Heck of a trade. Smoak is better then his numbers. If Beavan can add a cutter he could be an effective ML pitcher sort of similar to Tommy Hunter. Lueke and Lawson were probably throw ins to compensate for the two draft picks. Also, I believe Lueke is a sidearmer.
RangerMad - July 9, 2010
Lueke isn't a sidearmer
Kinslerhomer - July 9, 2010
Lueke isn't a throw-in
He’s quite capable of becoming a solid ML reliever.
wyte_lightning - July 9, 2010
Possible relievers are the definition of throw ins.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
You could argue he was the most valuable of the players minus Smoak
I don’t think he’s a throw in.
Edgar for Pres - July 9, 2010
It's not even a good term, throw in.
If they’re in the deal, its for good reason. We’re not matching contracts here.
Kenneth Arthur - July 9, 2010 via mobile
I don't really understand the whole 'heart ripped from my chest' sentiment
I mean, Lee was a Mariner for 13 starts. They were 11 or 12 of the best starts anyone has ever seen (the San Diego game was an interesting anomaly all around), but did anyone really emotionally invest in Cliff Lee being a Mariner? Really? Even if this team was performing as planned, there’s probably an 80% chance he’d have been packing his bags three-ish months from now anyway. Lee’s a great pitcher, obviously, and if the team had kept him they might win 75 games this year instead of 70 (or whatever). I just don’t quite get the heartbreak that’s coming with this trade, like it was Felix or something. I’m sorry if I sound like a callous bitch (I probably do), but I just don’t see why Lee leaving is such a big deal.
Aly Edge - July 9, 2010
He wasn't a Mariner for very long
I wasn’t as emotionally attached as some, but that being said, he did just about everything right when he was here. He pitched out of his mind, took leadership in a clubhouse, and invested in a team he knew he wasn’t a long-term part of.
Also, pitchers have pitched better than Lee has this year (not MUCH better, mind you). That being said, a pitcher like Cliff Lee in his current form is more rare than a Felix or a Lincecum. He pitched in a way that I’ve never consistently witnessed before. He hit his spots better than anyone since Greg Maddux in his prime.
Fuckmikereilly - July 9, 2010
Yeah, I never fell completely in love with him simply because I knew he was a rental,
but for fuck’s sake he was the closest thing to a perfect pitcher that we can ever expect out of any human being over half a season. And he did it in a smile on his face and a Mariners jersey on his back. It’s tough to give up on that, but I think everyone here understood that it had to happen.
Teej - July 9, 2010
HE SWEPT ME OFF MY FEET
Jeff Sullivan - July 9, 2010
Watching someone pitch so well, you realize you're witnessing something rare.
It’s tough not to get caught up in it. I fell for Cliff Lee and my love will follow him wherever he goes.
Hopefulmsfan - July 10, 2010
Thoroughly enjoyed this
Credit to ProBallNW for digging it up:
Mark Lowe
Fuckmikereilly - July 10, 2010
Awwww
cedarA - July 10, 2010
I will miss Mark Lowe as well.
If only he had stayed healthy, he could’ve been so good with us. I do hope he recovers and pitches well in Texas, just not against us.
Hopefulmsfan - July 10, 2010
Haha
vivaelpujols - July 10, 2010
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