Update: nothing doing here - the Mets are just making internal moves. I think Figgins could still get dealt, but he won't get dealt in this.
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This has Twitter all abuzz at the moment:
A pair of New York Mets prospects was scratched from the starting lineup 10 minutes before Friday's Triple-A Buffalo game, signaling a trade might be brewing involving the major league club.
Two sources -- one with ties to the organization, one formerly with the organization -- indicated the Seattle Mariners are the team involved in dialogue with the Mets.
Good job on the author's part for not falling into the "a pair...were" trap that claims so many victims.
Anyway, the logical conclusion would be that the two teams are working on a mutual dump of Chone Figgins and Luis Castillo. That's certainly the popular rumor for the time being. And while it's two in the morning and I'm not going to analyze anything since we don't have many details and this is all still in the complete rumor stage, I will say this - if the Mariners move Figgins this month, I will not be surprised. They've already tried to move him before, and it's for that reason that I think there could be something to this.
Stay tuned. A lot could change about this team awful fast. Or, alternatively, nothing could change, at all, ever.
0 recs | 60 comments
As annoying as Chone Figgins has been this season.
I would be sad to see him traded. I feel like he still has something to offer this team. My opinion could change for the right price though. Thank you Jeff, for keeping us insomniacs informed.
Hopefulmsfan - August 7, 2010
Wow. This is just bizarre.
Jeff Nye - August 7, 2010
FIGGINS IS ONLY GOOD ON ODD YEARS, PEOPLE!
This has been established. It is science. Gotta keep him around for 2011!
Seriously though this is dumb.
Eyebrows - August 7, 2010
Not ready to call it dumb, but a lot of it depends on how much cash we're eating.
Figgins is the better bet than Castillo going forward, by a long shot. But he also has two more years and Castillo on the books in 2011 probably doesn’t matter much, given that 2011 is not a good bet to be successful.
Fuckmikereilly - August 7, 2010
Yes, and it depends what we get back in prospects also.
Luis Castillo is 35 and not very good but if we get some interesting prospects along with him it could be a good deal. It would add some roster flexibility to 2012.
Droid Rage - August 7, 2010
Just like the Star Trek movies, expect good on the even numbered ones.
Most illogical.
Janic - August 7, 2010
They better be some fucking good prospects.
Luis Castillo is awful. Is also three years older. But is signed for two fewer years I guess? It would also mean more Jose Lopez possibly
Mariner John - August 7, 2010
It true it could also be the aftermath of the dugout incident ...
… with the Mariners opting to not make any public statements running down the player. But by getting him off the team they let it be known that the conduct is not acceptable.
Steve Nelson - August 7, 2010
If the Mariners are trying to make a statement, trading the player is the wrong statement to make.
That would be telling the players that ‘if you want off this team, blow up in the dugout and you’ll get your wish.’
The dugout incident led to a meeting with Jack Zduriencik and I would be willing to bet that is where a decision was made mutually that Figgins needs a change of scenery. Jack has shown, and I think he even talked about it at the USSM/LL meeting in January, that he cares for his employees’ personal well being. The Milton Bradley situation earlier this year is a prime example; Griffey is likely another. If Figgins is unhappy, Jack seems like a person who will provide a way to change those feelings. That doesn’t necessarily mean trade/release is always the answer, but in Figgins’ case that might be what was concluded.
Wilder. - August 7, 2010
What worries me is Figgins' relationship with Ichiro
I feel like Ichi doesn’t have any friends left.
If this move made us noticably better that would be less of a concern.
Smegmalicious - August 7, 2010 via mobile
It could work.
Figgins, plus a pitcher (Fister? Aadsma?), plus cash ($10 m over ‘10,’11,’12?)
for
Castillo, plus two prospects (Ruben Tejada? Fernando Martinez?)
The Mets would be hoping to get two useful players for a player they don’t want.
The Mariners dump a disappointment, get a bench player, while buying the prospects with the cash difference.
Just my guess.
mark sobba - August 7, 2010
While I agree Figgins is better than he has been...
According to the names on the site:
Fernando Martinez – 21 year old Mets’ #1 prospect on Fangraphs, #3 on Sickels
Ruben Tejeda – 21 year old possibly major league ready shortstop/second baseman with decent fielding instincts. #7 Fangraphs, #10 Sickels.
Luis Castillo – Costs less than Figgins and is done after 2011, which is likely a lost cause anyway.
Based on initial information (which I’m not arguing we should believe, only that it is all that way have) I don’t see why this isn’t exciting to more people, unless somehow I’m missing something.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
I'd much rather have Flores substituted for either prospect if the cash exchanging hands is significant.
But, other than that, yeah, this rumor is awesome.
ThomasG - August 7, 2010
The negativity surprises me.
Figgins’ contract was a “good contract.” Even if he performed at his projections, it was never a great contract. It was a fair price for a good player in his later years. This good player has slumped, but even if he performed at expectations, it wasn’t a steal. It was just a contract, like any other contract. Losing him even if he is “better than this” isn’t that much of a loss. It’s not like he was a cost controlled player or someone that was worth way more than his contract (see Lee, Cliff). He’s just a player that they paid roughly market value for.
Not to mention that with 2011 looking to be a difficult year, Figgins’ 2012 and 2013 seasons are expect via age projections to be at or below market value, and that’s if he gets back to his normal numbers. Trading him can easily be a huge benefit to the team going forward, even if we don’t get much back
CapSea - August 7, 2010
Yeah this seems like a great deal.
brayden04 - August 7, 2010
It depends on the rest of the deal
We aren’t getting all that for Fig. We will be throwing in more cash and or names.
stufr - August 7, 2010
Well, obviously.
All I’m saying is that trading Chone is a smart move in a lot of ways, even if he performs back at expectations. The fact that the names that have been thrown out there are some of the best/youngest prospects in their systems should be getting people really excited about the possibility. This thread was so much more tepid than I expected.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
unless Jack is more of a magician than I think
We will have to give up something pretty good for that to be the haul. Maybe Fig has more value than I think.
stufr - August 7, 2010
Or the Mets are more incompetent than you give them credit for.
I assume, if this rumor is remotely true, the focal point of the deal will be the money heading New York’s way. Which, given Minaya’s track record, would be like giving a recovering alcoholic a bottle of wine for his birthday.
ThomasG - August 7, 2010
This is rosterbation.
All I’m commenting on is that I find it odd that there isn’t more excitement about the idea of trading Chone, not because he’s actually this bad, but because his contract isn’t much of a benefit to this team, especially in 2012 and 2013. Trading him just isn’t really that big a deal.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
Counterpoint: Figlet is an awesome nickname.
So I vote he stays.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
Touche, sir.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
You're a good man.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
And you, sir, are a formidable opponent.
We’ll be right back.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
I do not mean to pry, but you don't by any chance happen to have six fingers on your right hand?
Kermit. - August 7, 2010
That's half-chub.
abender20 - August 7, 2010
Scratch that.
abender20 - August 7, 2010
if you scratch that it might bleed
pdb - August 7, 2010
So what do we do with Lopez?
Tyler is a G - August 7, 2010
Maybe he is part of the deal
We just hadn’t heard it yet.
stufr - August 7, 2010
.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
NO PLEASE NO NO NO GOD PLEASE NO
Luis Castillo is awful and I still have hope for Figgins.
SeaKoala - August 7, 2010 via mobile
But Fernando Martinez and Ruben Tejada are not awful.
And would represent an excellent return on Figgins.
ThomasG - August 7, 2010
Ferdnando Martinez and Ruben Tejada are on the 40 man roster
They have to clear waivers to be traded, and spoiler alert, they aren’t going to clear waivers.
ManifestDestiny - August 7, 2010
Hmm
ignacio - August 7, 2010
Granted, yeah, but in a hypothetical situation like this, I assume they'd be PTBNLs.
ThomasG - August 7, 2010
Do they really need to clear waivers?
The Mariners have the third worst record in baseball, so all these players would have to pass is Baltimore and Pittsburgh. The Mariners could be the team that puts in a claim for them.
Coug1990 - August 7, 2010
Wrong
They have to clear through the NL first before AL teams can claim/ignore them. If they have to go through waivers, they will get claimed before we get any shot.
I don’t see how we get much value for Figgins unless we are sending some cash – in which case I say just keep Figgins.
tait644 - August 7, 2010
Goddammit where's my NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO button?
wazzu93 - August 7, 2010
Also, per Jon Heyman, doesn't look like the prospects are going anywheres
ManifestDestiny - August 7, 2010
It's Heyman, though, he might be talking about something that happened last year.
lailaihei - August 7, 2010
Rosenthal also says "internal stuff"
Looks like there’s nothing to this.
Fuckmikereilly - August 7, 2010
In that case, I'm glad I went to bed thinking "I ain't buyin' this until I see more info."
ThundaPC - August 7, 2010
This is a very bad swap if the Mariners don't get something shiny back as well
Poochie - August 7, 2010
MLBTR is saying these moves aren't trade related now.
I think Z is smarter than swapping Figgins for Castillo. It’s too early to call the Figgins contract a bust, so why swap three years of Figgins for a known waste of cash?
Jon S. - August 7, 2010 via mobile
Exactly
it’s way too early to write off Figgins. One bad season doth not a bust make.
The Ancient Mariner - August 7, 2010
Yea, so basically all internal moves for the Mets
AdamRubinESPN
Corresponding moves for Fernando Martinez And Ruben Tejada being called up.
ThundaPC - August 7, 2010
Jack Z is smart. He does not trade players away when they are at their lowest value, I think Jack will wait until the offseason when Figgins numbers are better, then fuck some team over by getting more value the Tejada and Martinez
jackyz - August 7, 2010 via mobile
Well that seems pretty unlikely
Jeff Sullivan - August 7, 2010
And Martinez, despite his struggles this season, is still a legit prospect
baetown415 - August 7, 2010
I am not saying he is not a good prospect I just think
jackyz - August 7, 2010 via mobile
that Jack could get better prospects when Figgins proves he can still hit
jackyz - August 7, 2010 via mobile
"He does not trade players away when they are at their lowest value"
Terminator X - August 8, 2010
Let me try that again.
Tell that to Brandon Morrow, Jeff Clement, Ronny Cedeno, Carlos Silva, Jeremy Reed, Yuniesky Betancourt, and Wladimir Balentien.
Terminator X - August 8, 2010
Why is it being speculated that Figgins is the player involved in a potential trade with the Mets?
I think Omar Minaya is stupid enough to want Jose Lopez.
lmeyer40 - August 7, 2010
Its not happening
Jack didn’t sign Figgins to a 4 year contract worth a heavy sum to flip him in another bad contract swap, especially now that his bat has come around the past few months. The only way I could see it happen is if the M’s had a suitable minor league replacement or were getting one back, but Liddi/Triunfel are a season off at the very least, and they arent getting a young MLB 3B for figgins unless they do some serious wallet gouging.
E2ESQUARE - August 7, 2010
I continue to be baffled by the reaction in this thread.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
I was not aware of the prospects that would have come back.
Mariner John - August 7, 2010
That's not really what I'm saying.
I don’t think it even matters. When Chone Figgins was signed, the idea was that Figgins, if he played at his projected level, would have win values of something like:
2010: 4 wins
2011: 3.5 wins
2012: 3 wins
2013: 2.5 wins
Based on aging, etc. That’s 12 wins at 36 million, or about 3 million per win. Wins last year were about 4 million, and long term contracts get discounts, so we essentially paid him average for free agents. Nothing special, but not bad.
2010 is gone. 2011 is looking like a long shot. So really, the question is whether or not 9 million per year in 2012 and 2013 is worth it if he plays at his project level, and I don’t think it is. We’d be paying 18 million for 5 wins, and that’s ONLY if this year is a fluke, with a genuine possibility that he has gotten worse. If 2011 was looking like our year, I’d say keep him around, but 2012 and 2013 are a long way off, he’s not expected to be as good during those years since he’s older, and all of this is under the assumption that he’s going to play back to his career norms, which is in no way a guarantee. Trading him is simply not that bad a move. We can always pay the same contract for someone on the free agent market in 2010 or 2011 or 2011 anyway, since his contract was never a steal.
Even if you’re trading him when his value is low, there is still a pretty obvious benefit to getting his contract off the books and using that money elsewhere. If 2011 looked to be a great year for us, maybe not, but since 2011 is already an uphill battle, it doesn’t make nearly as much sense to keep him around.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
This does not mean he can't be traded in a way that is a bad deal.
He could be traded for someone worse on an equally long and pricey contract, in which case we would not benefit. But the idea of trading Figgins should be a positive, and all that is left is to see if the trade’s execution.
CapSea - August 7, 2010
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