Lookout Landing

Straight up is probably a bad idea, right? I mean, we'd want something more than just Montero for it to even be a consideration, right?

I'D WANT MOOOOOAR

Yankees fans loathe this deal as it is.

So maybe not.

MP-17 - January 13, 2012 reply

Really?

A top of the line, young, major league proven pitcher for something that is just a prospect? A good prospect, mind you, but unproven.

One without a proven defense spot to boot.

Pineda for Montero straight is not a deal I like

As in smart Yankees fans or sports-radio-caller fans?

Jed MC - January 13, 2012 reply

I hate speculation.

This particular speculation sure sounds like Z. going into desperation mode.

Z seems to have a list of players

1) Branyan
2) Heilman
3) Smoak
4) Gutierrez
5) Montero
6) Wilson

and he doesn’t want guys not on that list

Wait what?

He keeps targeting the same players

He got Branyan, lost Branyan, got Branyan back
He got Heilman, lost Heilman, got Heilman back
He almost got Montero, didn’t get Montero, is now getting Montero

I'm not claiming that to be a good thing or a bad thing, but it seems to be a thing

If it ends up just being Pineda for Montero

That’s very bad.

scout6 - January 13, 2012 reply

There is more, per Heyman.

rocketsfanfromseattle - January 13, 2012 reply

According to Heyman it is not just those two

Griffin Cooper - January 13, 2012 reply

Done deal.

Wow.

SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO FEEL ABOUT THIS I AM SO CONFLICTED

You guys got Montero, but there is more involved

Please use the subject line over here

Apologies

Forgot about that

You should add the requirement of a subject line when working with SBNation.

InSpokane - January 13, 2012 reply

Montero is a shitty return

But better than some fake trades I guess :/

Poochie - January 13, 2012 reply

Folks, let me say this

You just got your clean up hitter for the next decade.

Drew Henson!

Eric Duncan!
Phillip Hughes!

Every Yankees prospect not named Cano for the last 12 years!

Montero's different

We knew Duncan sucked. Montero has been called Miguel Cabrera-like by scouts.

And he might turn into that. He's not for sure going to turn into that.

True

Thanks! You guys will love Pineda.

Blueshirt Banter is great btw!

TrashiDawa - January 13, 2012 reply

Thanks!

You’re a reader?

Yup. I'm a West Coast Rangers fan.

Until Seattle gets a team.

TrashiDawa - January 13, 2012 reply

Glad to see it!

Rec'd for use of Iwakuma picture.

Also HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS

My instant reaction is to hate this.

I don’t like giving up a young #2 with upside with a year of MLB experience for a DH that’s proved nothing.

SethGrandpa - January 13, 2012 reply

OPS of nearly 1 in 18 games!

HUGE sample size!

wyte_lightning - January 13, 2012 reply

I was more focused on how he didn't really tear up AAA.

SethGrandpa - January 13, 2012 reply

This is my point of view as well

That you clearly stole. Give it back.

Wow...

We signed Iwakuma? Nice! Wait, Pineda and Montero? What’s going on?!

Gaude - January 13, 2012 reply

I'm interested to see if they even bother trying him at catcher or if they put him at DH.

I don't want to have to root against Pineda.

He seems like such a nice guy.

Jed MC - January 13, 2012 reply

I guess that means no more "Trade Felix to the Yankees for Montero" trade rumors!

Now we can see all the "Trade Felix for Nova" trade rumors!

Should Yankees fans be happy?

Right now we’re really angry. We reeeeeeeally like Montero.

Michael Pineda is a very promising young pitcher.

He needs to refine his change-up but if he does he’s going to be deadly.

Aaaaand now we'll have to face him

That won’t suck at alllll… :\

Holy crap

You have never watched Pineda pitch, I am guessing? Dude has a legit power arm.

scout6 - January 13, 2012 reply

Pineda is a lot of fun. Great velocity. Could be an aceish type player, could be risky. I'll miss him.

Seems like a pretty good deal for both sides

Pineda is pretty impressive

I guess thats one way to rate how good a trade is.

To see how mad the fans of the other team get. This one seems like an even trade based on reaction.

Pebohead - January 13, 2012 reply

MLB's official twitter says it's a 4 player deal, doesn't say who the other two are.

drblacknwhite - January 13, 2012 reply

The Yankees are gonna sign Prince Fielder now. Watch.

Im hoping this is a bid to show Prince that he won't have to carry the team

I deeply hope this isn't true, though I fear it to be.

I’m not very emotionally attached to any of the big free agents the yanks have picked up over the past few years, but I don’t need to see Fielder in pinstripes.

kentcheesehead - January 13, 2012 reply

This is my greatest fear

Greg Johns:

No confirmation from team, but source says Mariners sending Pineda and Jose Campos to Yankees for Jesus Montero/Hector Noesi.

drblacknwhite - January 13, 2012 reply

Making it even worse

JACK NOOOOOO!

I like Campos though :[

Can Noesi realistically compete for a rotation spot right now?

No

Then fuck this

Over-reaction?

Dave really thinks so.

BigR - January 15, 2012 reply

Yeah, amended. Part of my skepticism is (still) that he's not real stretched out in workload.

Matthew - January 15, 2012 reply

Noesi isn't that bad.

He’s not that good either. His minor league control numbers were much better than his majors so far. Not sure if that means anything.

Campos seems like he is a long way away.

Campos is hugely talented tho.

As this stands right now, I don’t like the deal either. You have ML ready players in Montero and Noesi for ML ready player Pineda and way far off Campos.

But, Pineda alone is worth more than Montero and Noesi.

A no-walk, fly ball pitcher. Could be worse.

That's his problem

He’s not so “no-walk” in the majors so far. If he can get back to that, he’ll be fine.

56.1 innings does not a sample size make.

So I’m giving him a pass thus far. But 3.51 BB/9 isn’t sooo bad if that’s the worst it gets.

3.51 sucks. He has a 9% walk rate (8.9) when the ML average is 8.1%

His k-rate was better in the minors, but petered out at higher levels. Not sure what happened there. Not a groundball guy either, which doesn’t help.

9% vs 8% isn't really "sucks"

When you have nothing else to compensate for it?

I think it does.

You can get away with a higher walk rate if you strike out more guys (The AJ Burnett solution).

You can get away with a higher walk rate if you put lots of balls in the dirt (the Jake Westbrook solution)

What does Noesi got that is so special?

That doesn't make any sense.

You can say the package sucks, or whatever, but having a 9% walk rate compared to an 8% average is not “sucking”. That’s hyperbole.

The package sucks, then.

What

Greg Johns:

No confirmation from team, but source says Mariners sending Pineda and Jose Campos to Yankees for Jesus Montero/Hector Noesi.

wyte_lightning - January 13, 2012 reply

What

I don't know anymore.

wyte_lightning - January 13, 2012 reply

Smartass

Oh no.

This offseason just came crashing down… for now.

If Montero could actually catch I would be way more excited about this.

Thats the problem.

If Montero could/can catch then I like the trade idea

Right

Really hoping that 95% of the scouts are wrong on his ability to catch … god dammit

Teej - January 13, 2012 reply

If he can catch decently for the first 3 or 4 years of his 6 years of team control, then I

would be pretty happy about that.

Especially if he turns out to be as good a hitter as many seem to believe

Technically qualifies

for fantasy purposes.

jjmalden - January 13, 2012 reply

Indeed

Instead, we’ve filled an easily filled position with a really in-versatile player.

I am gonna miss you Michael..

1.186 OPS ON GRASS!

mlathrop3 - January 13, 2012 reply

My favorite part about this trade is that Larry Stone was right and got the main information out first besides just the idea of a trade.

I initially wanted to freak out

I really like Pineda. Jesus Montero hasn’t played a Major League season. But after thinking it over, Montero is a blue chip hitter among blue chip hitters. He’s killed AAA. To the eye, he looked great in his callup. He’s young. At the same time, Pineda has missed time due to an injured throwing arm within the last few years, he hasn’t gotten over the 200 IP threshold, and he tired obviously last year after the All-Star break. Those are a lot of red flags, and it might be wise to sell high on him, given that we are deep in pitching.

I think I like this.

chaney - January 13, 2012 reply

I don't mind losing Pineda

I just sorta wish it was for someone else.

He has not killed AAA.

Teej - January 13, 2012 reply

In what universe is an .843 OPS "killing" AAA?

The Yankee Prospect Universe

The YPU is separated from reality by something greasy that smells like garbage

Craptastic-J - January 13, 2012 reply

New Jersey?

ZING!

Kevman22 - January 13, 2012 reply

It's a terrible terrible place

Much like the YPU

Craptastic-J - January 13, 2012 reply

Given that he was 20-21 year old and a catcher, I think it's pretty impressive

chaney - January 13, 2012 reply

I want Pineda!

Marinerfanjake - January 13, 2012 reply

Right hander...

Why did it have to be a right hander…

Cause we play half our games outside of Safeco?

rtang - January 13, 2012 reply

And couldn't hit left handers for shit last year.

Because we need power from the right side. And Montero has ridiculous opposite field power.

Holy shit this happened fast.

KC Mariner - January 13, 2012 reply

Zips on Montero for 2012

.271/.333/.486, 112 OPS+

Not bad for a 22 year old, but not exactly “Young Edgar.”

Sorry to bother you folks

But can someone give a Yankees fan a reason to like this trade? We hate it, looks like you hate it, what’s going on?

Pineda and Campos are really, really good. Montero is good but a DH, Noesi is a non-factor.

Montero's upside is limited by the fact that he has no defensive position.

That is really the primary issue in my opinion.

Plus 1

Strike that. Plus infinity. I hate players with no defensive position.

Pineda>Nova.

chezbergrur - January 13, 2012 reply

Well of course

But I was content with waiting for Oswalt/Kuroda price to go down, keeping Montero.

What I meant was that it seems like Nova is highly regarded by Yankee fans

and having an even better Nova would be something Yankee fans would be excited about. Not to mention Pineda is cheap.

chezbergrur - January 13, 2012 reply

Yes

and Yes. Thanks

Pineda is young, and has the potential to be amazing. He was all ready really good last year. If Campos is in the trade, he's a pretty solid prospect.

Jose Campos could improve his stock by a lot next year.

And Pineda… well, I think you know him.

We're looking for offense, you're looking for pitching I guess.

Pineda WAS an all star last year by the way

mlathrop3 - January 13, 2012 reply

Yankees short right field could be murder to Pineda.

This worries me

I'm sure his elbow will hold up, though.

Safeco Field has a short right porch too.

Not quite to the extreme, but I doubt it’ll hurt Pineda too much. He’s a serious strikeout pitcher, and strikeout pitchers aren’t hurt as badly by park factors as non-strikeout pitchers.

Kevman22 - January 13, 2012 reply

Thank you

Appreciate the info

No problem.

We hope only bad things happen to your team until the end of time. Have a nice day, though!

Every team likes their prospects better

And until someone’s player becomes a monster, both team’s fans will likely feel disappointed.

I think this is one of those perfect examples of fans of their respective teams overvaluing their own players/prospects

I suspect that with some time and further clarification that both sides will come to terms with it

Y'all just screwed us, if Pineda stays healthy he'll be special

That monstrosity of a stadium won’t help his numbers much though

Poochie - January 13, 2012 reply

Oh boy, Right handed power!

please don’t let this blow up in our faces.

Even if Montero stinks at catching, he's still better than Olivo folks.

Pebohead - January 13, 2012 reply

Oh wow now that we've cleared that low hurdle I am in love with this trade

Eyebrows - January 13, 2012 via mobile reply

You just made me like this trade 100x more

cdlewey - January 13, 2012 reply

Hmm. Hope he's better than the last Jesus Seattle Traded For..

Papa Chelmon - January 13, 2012 reply

I mean

This Jesus of course

Papa Chelmon - January 13, 2012 reply

Cameron:

Am on board with trading Pineda.

Well no shit.

I don't get why he hates Pineda

Then again, I don’t understand half of what he thinks.

seiferguy - January 13, 2012 reply

Please don't turn this into another thread to bash Dave Cameron.

Another?

The Fan Post about his offseason plan.

Er, Fan Shot.

There's a difference between bashing and being critical

Poochie - January 13, 2012 reply

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it is bad or wrong.

Jed MC - January 13, 2012 reply

He doesn't hate Pineda.

He just isn’t as high on him due to the lack of a major league change-up.

http://www.ussmariner.com/2011/12/11/should-the-mariners-extend-michael-pineda-now/

He doesn't hate Pineda. It's that hitters are a safer bet long term.

Mayo - January 13, 2012 reply

He hasnt liked Montero much in the past either.

I’m pretty sure he only likes prospects if they are in the A-Rod Griffey Longoria tier of prospects.

joof - January 13, 2012 via mobile reply

He actually advocated locking him up long term

he also just thought Pindea was our best trade chip. It’s not hard to understand.

StuHamm - January 14, 2012 reply

To be fair, the Mariners probably know more about what they're doing than we do. Or at least I hope they do!

Your appeal to authority does not slake my anxiety

lemonverbena - January 13, 2012 reply

Bavasi didn't know squat.

In three years the Yankees will have 2/5 of the future Mariners rotation.

Felix is still ours though, you selfish pricks.

What does this mean for Olivo?

He still sucks.

Clearly he's out of a job.

Montero is not a catcher

short - January 13, 2012 reply

Neither is Olivo.

Dave Cameron will be so happy

He never wanted Pineda to stay a Mariner in the first place…

Chris_FB - January 13, 2012 via mobile reply

That just isn't true.

It's oversimplified, but it pretty much is true

Aaron Campeau - January 13, 2012 reply

Completley untrue.

Dave felt that Pineda was the best trade chip for a variety of reasons. That is all. He’s actually pretty ambivalent about this trade.

StuHamm - January 14, 2012 reply

Dave advocating that they should lock him up long term...

learn to use the interwebs.
http://www.ussmariner.com/2011/12/11/should-the-mariners-extend-michael-pineda-now/

StuHamm - January 14, 2012 reply

Yes, Aaron's internet skills are certainly to be questioned.

Mariner John - January 15, 2012 reply

To be fair I haven't read USSM in years

Aaron Campeau - January 15, 2012 reply

I can't think this trade would be made if Jack thinks Montero is going to DH.

Either we are making more moves or Montero is going to catch (badly).

I don't get how half a season of Cliff Lee was worth Montero a year ago but six years of Pineda is worth Montero now

Has Montero’s stock really climbed that much?

Five years of Pineda to be fair.

Easily six if they want to manipulate it though

Only if Pineda has a stretch where he struggles

MLBPA would otherwise win the grievance.

Wow, you know that for certainzies?

For realizies, but not quite certainizies

Just an educated guess based on familiarity with the baseball CBA and labor relations.

People say this

but has it ever happened?

For this reason, I mean.

Not a grievance in general.

Logan Morrison just filed one

It's unlikely that, had the Yankees actually traded for Lee, that they would not have made an as strong an effort, if not stronger effort, to sign Lee to an extension

Even if they hadn’t, they would’ve received draft picks as compensation for losing Cliff Lee in FA.

Different situation.

Some desperation forced New York to act. They also had to outbid the other teams involved, which included the Rangers who weren’t originally budging on Smoak. When they caved, that’s when things went south for the Yankees.

So I don't really know much about Montero, is most of his power from pulling the ball to LF or can he hit it the other way?

dougstrangerthanfiction - January 13, 2012 reply

Apparently he has good opposite-field power.

Teej - January 13, 2012 reply

From what I hear....

…lot of gap power and lot of DEEP power.

BUt not sure how that will play in SAFECO, where the problems are in the air and winds.

rtang - January 13, 2012 reply

I recall him hitting it out the other way the end of last season. Certainly not a pull-only kind of hitter.

_Hutch_ - January 13, 2012 reply

how would you feel if this was pineda for mike stanton?

straight up
montero is just a name, a name that makes sense but i think pineda to florida also does

Stanton has more power than Montero, is a better hitter right now, is younger, and has defensive value.

In other words, I'd be stoked.

And has a better major league track record right? I think, aHHHHH, I don't know what to think

Craptastic-J - January 13, 2012 reply

Stanton has a full season producing at the MLB level and can play the field.

KC Mariner - January 13, 2012 reply

In other words, like Goose, I'd be stoked.

KC Mariner - January 13, 2012 reply

I would trade felix for mike stanton.

Dude could be one of the best hitters in the game for years to come.

neel - January 13, 2012 reply

I would be dancing down the hallways of my office

Probably an Irish jig.

That's a lot to give up for a could.

edddgar - January 13, 2012 reply

Does Montero equate to no Prince?

If so, then whatever shall we do with all that money?

PARTY!

Pebohead - January 13, 2012 reply

.

We'll need another starter.

Maybe Roy Oswalt 1/8

Mayo - January 13, 2012 reply

Then trade him and his sub 3 ERA at the deadline to the Yankees for a struggling Pineda!

I like your plan.

That $3-4 million?

edddgar - January 13, 2012 reply

Not many people believe we would have an 80ish million payroll.

Mayo - January 13, 2012 reply

Friday the 13th...

I was busy wrapping a couple gifts for my son who turned 4 today and had been feeling pretty good, then my phone notifies me of this trade. Drat! I own one jersey from the present roster, and placed my wager on what seemed like the safe bet. Of course, I put my money on Pineda. Now he’s a Yankee. Double drat.

brugg - January 13, 2012 via mobile reply

The AM radio call in show, Geoff Baker crowd better be friggin happy now

There’s your big bat. Now shush.

Chris_FB - January 13, 2012 via mobile reply

They aren't paying Montero enough. Doesn't count.

Know what the worst part about this trade is?

Hector Noesi.

Over at the Yankees site they are upset about losing Noesi as well.

ARock - January 13, 2012 reply

Trading Pineda and Campos, ~B pitching prospect, for a former prospect with a dissapointing Dominican league performance and Montero.

Not confirmed yet

That was my initial reaction,

but after doing a little research, John Sickels had him as the Yankees #5 prospect, grade B. Sickels has Campos as the M’s #5 prospect (this year), also a “B”. Obviously prospects change over time, but it seems like Campos and Noesi are similar type pitchers, except that Campos is younger and has better upside, while Noesi is ready to contribute now but has a lower ceiling.

Noesi is a fine pitcher.

Would be a good mid-rotation guy. Nova-esque.

Andrew GM - January 13, 2012 reply

Olney

Olney
Strong reaction so far from other teams: Some execs from other AL East teams believe Yankees just made an incredible trade.

Undo! Undo!

LOAD THE LAST QUICKSAVE!

Campos

Any info you can proivde on him?

Goldstein

Goldstein
Jose Campos was No. 5 on my Mariners prospect list. 19 yo Venezuelan with power frame, power stuff, huge upside, going to take time.

He hates Boston and disparages the Mets often.

That’s about as much as I know.

They created a King's Court for him at Everett last year.

Dude was phenomenal, but still a long ways away.

drblacknwhite - January 13, 2012 reply

He's definitely a long ways off

But if he keeps developing at the same rate he did last year then he could be a monster.

He's young

but he’s more valuable than Noesi.

The Campos/Noesi aspect is what has me curious. If the general consensus is that Campos is ultimately worth more than Noesi (which is my assumption), then that would mean that Zduriencik considered Montero significantly more valuable than Pineda, right? I might be underrating Noesi or overrating Campos, but I don’t like the idea of paying additional consideration to make the trade because I don’t believe that Montero is significantly more valuable than Pineda. If anything, he’s less valuable or has similar value. Am I right?

It would be so damn funny

if news broke that the M’s broke off talks with the Yankees and instead agreed to trade Pineda to someone else.

This would make me SOOOO happy.

Kevman22 - January 13, 2012 reply

If we get back a prospect, I'd rather trade a prospect

If we’re trading someone Major League proven, we damn well need someone(s, preferrably) Major League proven in return.

Aly Edge - January 13, 2012 reply

Does Montero count?

From a Montero scouting report:

“He takes pride in his defense”
I bet.

kentcheesehead - January 13, 2012 reply

Our defense has been lacking for pride since Raul left.

That '09 defense was particularly shameful

kentcheesehead - January 13, 2012 reply

JAC tweets that Nova might be in the deal.

Sorry, but i suck at linking tweets…