Matthew recently wrote "…I don't think a fan effort to have the team spend more money on payroll would accomplish anything." I can almost envision a groupon where if X fans agree to buy Y tickets, then management will increase payroll by Z amount.
Fans could buy the tickets and would not be locked in until Y tickets were sold. If, for whatever reason, payroll was not raised to Z amount, then their tickets could be refunded. This would be a way for fans to actively increase payroll if they truly want that. I could imagine management could set up terms such that XY>Z so that they could make a profit.
It has been stated many times that a losing team's problem is cyclical. The team goes young and loses. The fanbase decreases because many do not like seeing bad baseball. Therefore, even with obtaining cheaper pieces the GM cannot add pieces through free agency because the budget was slashed as revenue decreased. This would seem to be a way to increase payroll without risk -- especially if you spread out the games available.
0 recs | 21 comments
That's a strange idea (not a bad one, just a strange one)
It seems to me that model would only work if the Mariners had zero season ticket holders. At this point, they have a guaranteed revenue stream from STH sales, so while it’s inaccurate to say they don’t care about other ticket sales, I don’ t think they would care enough to go this route.
pdb - January 19, 2012
Plus all the standard caveats about the 2008 Mariners and how increased payroll does not equal a more successful team apply here
pdb - January 19, 2012
*does not automatically equal
pdb - January 19, 2012
No doubt
But just because you do not need money to win it does not mean having extra money is useless or damaging — especially if spent wisely. Take for instance if the budget had 5 million dollars left and Oswalt wanted 10 million. Gaining that extra 5 million likely improves the team, assuming they can sign Oswalt. It may also improve the team down the line if they can flip Oswalt for a nice prospect around the trade deadline.
zeke5123 - January 19, 2012
Extra money is no doubt a good thing
but I don’t think the team would ever tie an increase in payroll to ticket sales – they can incentivize people to buy tickets in ways that don’t obligate them to make roster decisions based on sales, though.
pdb - January 19, 2012
I am unsure how many single-game tickets they sell
But it is quite obvious that many Mariner games are filled far from capacity. It seems to me, though I could be wrong, that the M’s could stand to sell many more tickets. Perhaps they could sell packages of 5 games in this groupon? Make them for the middle of the year. If the team is competitive, then the end of the year will sell fine on its own. If the team is not competitive, then the hired priced players will likely be traded at the deadline cutting down on costs anyhow. I could see how that could anger fans, however.
zeke5123 - January 19, 2012
The main problem with this, aside from any potential lawsuits if the Mariners drop below the payroll threshold during the season, is that it doesn't make much sense for the club to do this.
What you’re proposing is that the Mariners automatically increase expenditures as a result of a modest increase in revenue. The reason why Groupons benefit* a company is that the decrease in direct marketing costs plus the bulk increase in discounted revenue offset expected full-cost revenue plus Groupon fees. The benefit to the customer** is that they get to try something they normally wouldn’t at a discounted price. There is cost motivation. In your example, you’re tying the Groupon-style benefit to an increase in payroll, not to a direct discount to the customer. The problem with this is the only people who would be interested in such a promotion would be the demographic already attending games – dedicated fans. The casual fan isn’t going to care whether or not the team spends more money; they’re going to want to see a winning team regardless of how it’s constructed. (Unless you live in Tampa.)
More importantly is that the team would have to sell a shitload of tickets to justify a marked increase in payroll. Know how many more $25 tickets a game the Mariners would have to sell to barely come out in the black if they increased payroll by $10MM. 5,000.00. There are not that many fans out there that care that much about payroll to make that even remotely feasible.
I do think you have a good idea with the Groupon-style offering though; instead of tying it into payroll, offering a discount if a certain number of tickets are sold is a better way to increase guaranteed revenue. Which would in turn accomplish your goal of getting the team to spend more. (Provided it’s done wisely, of course.)
*debatable!
**not debatable!
ThomasG - January 19, 2012
Is that supposed to be 500,000?
GasolineSnuggie - January 19, 2012
Nope: 5,000 per game. No idea why I put the extra zeroes on that.
ThomasG - January 20, 2012
It also seems like offering a Groupon would annoy current STH.
This happened with the Sounders a little, though they have a higher ratio of STHers.
The Mariners have infrequently offered ticket deals, which I’ve seen on TravelZoo. I’d like to see more variable ticket pricing (how the heck would TicketMaster not have the capability to drop prices for feebly attended games?) but it seems like an economist’s pipe dream.
yuniform - January 22, 2012 via Android app
Ticketmaster can drop ticket prices whenever they want but the Mariners would define a floor below which they would never go
pdb - January 22, 2012
The Mariners are going to dynamic pricing for the 2012 season.
Linky.
Patrick Stites - January 22, 2012
Ooh, I missed that. Still a little sad to see that there's a floor, but I suppose that's necessary.
yuniform - January 23, 2012 via Android app
If the Mariners priced tickets by demand without having a floor
they’d have to start paying people to attend games by the All-Star break.
pdb - January 23, 2012
I've never really looked into the financial workings of a major-league team
But I always wondered if there was a certain breaking point where it would be in the team’s best interest to give away free tickets, like when the loss of ticket income would be exceeded by the net income in, say, concessions and souvenirs and whatnot. For instance offering a package where you could buy four tickets and get one or two free.
ThomasG - January 23, 2012
But there would also be clean up and security costs.
yuniform - January 23, 2012 via Android app
Wouldn't those be relatively static costs though, regardless of ticket sales?
For security I’d imagine it relates to capacity instead of actual tickets sales (otherwise how would you be able to manage walk-up sales on game day?) so you’re already paying for maximum security necessary. Clean-up costs would probably increase incrementally with the addition of more patrons, to the point where any increase in cost would be insignificant to the increase in revenue-generating patrons, ticket-paying or otherwise.
ThomasG - January 23, 2012
I don't think paying ushers and guards would be a static cost. The team probably makes an educated guess on how many game day sales it'll have, which allows them to set work schedules.
yuniform - January 23, 2012 via Android app
I know some hospitals do this for staffing, and are generally accurate
But can get blown up by unforeseen circumstances like weather or large public events that aren’t stable year by year. This kind of angle would make an interesting newspaper article, at least for me. Knowing how institutional infrastructure works is kind of neat.
Kermit. - January 23, 2012
I just had this conversation with my Dad (an usher at Safeco) the other day.
Last year the ushers would joke there were more employees than fans at some games because the Mariners threw a set number of employees out every game no matter what. Some might be sent home early saving some money, but at the start of the game it was a pretty standard set. This season my Dad said the team is going to go towards the model you mentioned – making educated guesses and scheduling people (a month out) accordingly.
KC Mariner - January 23, 2012
Interesting, especially that it's a month out. I'd think the nee variable priced ticketing system could also help with forecasting. Baby steps.
yuniform - January 24, 2012 via Android app
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