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Coulda been a dinger :(
Most of the time, I don't think we have much use for the Mariners.com mailbags. Which isn't by any means to say that Greg Johns doesn't do the Lord's work - I can't imagine sifting through the questions he must receive every week - but those things are usually geared to a different audience. If you're a Lookout Landing reader, you probably know a lot about the Mariners. You probably know enough about the Mariners.
This time around, though, there was one thing that caught my eye. Somebody wrote in asking that old question about whether the Mariners would ever consider moving in the fences. Safeco's a pitcher-friendly, run-suppressing park, see, and by moving in the fences, it could play more average. It could appeal more to hitters. Dingers! There would be more dingers!
Johns went about investigating. The answer, or at least parts of the answer:
I was told that since moving into Safeco Field in 1999, club officials have regularly discussed the topic and explored it with both statistical analysis and discussions with various field managers, coaches and baseball operations staff.
The team's stance is that if and when such a change would benefit the club, it would be open to moving in the fences [...]
Safeco, right now, is a fairly extreme pitcher-friendly park. It's been that way since the beginning, and the only significant changes I can recall involved the hitter backdrop. But it might not always be this way. Safeco could change, because the Mariners are open to change, and if the Mariners ever feel like making a change, they can basically make the change that they want.
Of course, that second thing - according to Johns, the Mariners would consider adjusting the dimensions if they thought it would help the team. But the Mariners are also building their team to suit the current dimensions, or at least they ought to be. So that's a hurdle, if you're someone who really wants different walls. If the Mariners will only change the fences if it helps a team that's presumably been built for other fences, then the Mariners probably won't change the fences.
For now, the prospect of Safeco playing in a different way is a distant possibility. I think they should temporarily add a hill and a flagpole to welcome the Astros to the AL West, just because hey look how fuckin stupid this is, but that wouldn't have anything to do with the fences so that's a different conversation. I also think the pitcher's mound should be glass and there should be a man looking out from inside, like a turret on a B-17. The hitter would be looking at the pitcher, and then he'd be like, what??
6 recs | 72 comments
Remodel
I hope if the M’s decide to move the fences in that they do it under the guise of a larger remodel project, and publicly say that the fences had to be moved as a consequence of the remodel, even though we all know it’s not true.
Oly-Mo - January 24, 2012
Why would it be so hard to admit to a mistake?
Some (many?) of us might not even agree a mistake was made, but if they move the fences that would be a tacit admission they thought one had been made… but why would they be so embarrassed about it they’d have to go through this big subterfuge to hide it? Why not just say “Hey, we thought this would be more fun. More dingers! You like dingers, right? C’mon out to Safeco and catch a dinger!”
Though they’d probably take the opportunity to build some added concessions or a kids’ park or some other kind fan friendly / revenue enhancement in the newly-available space.
No, the only people they really might owe an apology to is Adrian Beltre and company.
J0SER - January 24, 2012
Good Point
I agree that’s it’s really not a big deal if they just move the fences in, but I admit that as a Mariner fan, I would be somewhat embarrassed. It’s like we are admitting our own park was too big. It’s emasculating to me. And you really do make a great point about Beltre. If it has to be done, fine, but I’d prefer to say it was for a new kid’s park. (Great idea by the way.)
Oly-Mo - January 24, 2012
It's not a mistake though.
You bring up a pitcher, he does ok, then you flip him.
Flipping mediocre relievers is easy. Especially if you turn him into a “closer.” Look, he had 40 saves last season, he’s worth a good hitter. Hitters, I think, are a bit harder to flip.
Sidi - January 24, 2012
I swear these people screaming "Move the fences in so we can be competitive~!" legitimately think they're 50 feet further out in the bottom of the inning than the top
Aly Edge - January 24, 2012
Yeah, lets move em in.
Because if there is one thing I don’t see enough of it’s the Rangers hitting dingers in Safeco.
wetzelcoal - January 24, 2012
Halos fan here,
But I couldn’t agree more. Why should the fences be moved in? Safeco, Oakland, and the Big A are real stadiums. Fenway, Arlington, Yankee stadiums, not so much. Instead of catering to dingers, in glorified softball fields, lets make these guys work for their HR’s. On a personal note, been to Safeco, thought it was great, loved the garlic fries.
halofolife - January 24, 2012
I'm with you.
Sidi - January 24, 2012
wait Anaheim is a real stadium?
the one for which the general consensus is “tricked up giant minor league ballpark?” And Oakland, the stadium that the A’s are desperately trying to get rid of?
seattlebruin - January 25, 2012
I think he meant the fact that they're big parks, like many f the ballparks used earlier in the 20th century
Bearskin Rugburn - January 25, 2012
Like the Polo Grounds.
10,000 feet to dead center field.
zeeehjee - January 25, 2012
And like 150 down the line.
Ichiro would have the all-time home run record if his home park were the Polo Grounds.
Two Rs and Two Ls - January 25, 2012
Seriously, the same people who savagely demand the fences be brought in are the same ones who scream "Trade Felix before he bolts in FA~!" (which is proving to be just as silly)
Maybe…..maybe giant-ass Safeco Field is a wee bit of the reason why Felix likes Seattle so much?
Aly Edge - January 25, 2012
How far in are we talking about here?
I think another consideration would be lowering the RF score board.
Mariner Melee - January 24, 2012
Left Field.
And yeah, I assume that’s what they’d do if they did this, just run stands all the way down to a normal height wall. So it’d bring the wall in like 3-4 rows and down ten feet or whatever.
That would be the easy route, and would make sense.
BigR - January 24, 2012
Yes LF.
Mariner Melee - January 24, 2012
Can I get a hot tub?
Two things pop into my mind when people bring this up. 1. Manny launching one off the hit it here cafe window and 2. Ordonez crushing one into the left field bleachers.
Also, this park is perfect for triples just like Citi. See Jose Reyes
Darth Flamingo - January 24, 2012 via Android app
But but but
neither of those two things are relevant to moving in the fences!
pdb - January 24, 2012
The relevancy
Is that it’s a stupid idea, and we should get players who can hit the ball more than 5 feet over the fence consistently.
Darth Flamingo - January 24, 2012 via Android app
Whoops, reply fail
Darth Flamingo - January 24, 2012 via Android app
How does this effect us winning?
The fences come in, we allow more runs by the same proportion of more runs we produce from the closer fences, right?
Eric Wedge's Mustache - January 24, 2012 via Android app
That's my understanding as well but apparently for many bringing in the fences only increases runs for the home team, not the visiting team. An odd law of physics...
Unless of course all of our right hand hitters suck and can only hit the ball 389 feet to left center while the opposition can hit the ball 400 feet to left center. In which case, bringing the fences in one foot helps us more.
Matsui - January 25, 2012
More runs, more entertainment, more fans, more money
Saying that moving the fences in would improve the Mariner’s record in-and-of-itself is clearly misguided. But most fans like seeing offense, especially the more casual baseball fan. And while I get the impression that the stereotypical “casual fan” is not held in that high of regard ‘round these parts, there are way more of them than diehards and their money spends just the same as anyone else’s (and the franchise needs revenue to compete in this division now more than ever). So while the run differential at Safeco between the M’s and the competition might not change in a meaningful way, the interest level could. And lets face it scoring 265 and 239 runs at home the last couple years has turned a lot of people off.
I guess my point is seeing as how the M’s are a) coming off the 2 most inept hitting seasons of their existence and b) they just had a monumental talent shift from pitching to hitting, when better than right now to embrace a nudge towards park neutrality?
C Dubya - January 25, 2012
If they go to the glass mound
I would want to see it be a fish tank. Maybe they could charge divers for the privilege of looking at Felix’s feet. Plus, live rc hydro races between the Moose and a lucky fan.
branochilly - January 24, 2012
Keep it.
The more extreme the better. The M’s get to tailor their team for the park. It just takes smart management to acquire the right kind of players. Being closer to average negates this advantage.
browl - January 24, 2012
An advantage they only enjoy for half the games
J0SER - January 24, 2012
Right.
But some advantage is better than no advantage.
browl - January 24, 2012
Who will be the first person to hit a home run onto Royal Brougham?
Poochie - January 24, 2012
Felix
$cHu - January 25, 2012
Beautiful
Hey, a position for Figgins!
J0SER - January 24, 2012
Fences, and postseason appearances
I glanced at the list of world series winners over the last 20 years, and it seems half of them were teams whose home park was a so-called hitters’ park. But then, with the Yankees accounting for 6 of those, and the Blue Jays in there a couple times, it’s a bit skewed.
Still, I wonder if it’s worth looking up park factors, etc. for the home parks of teams that have made it into the postseason for the last 10 – 20 years, and see if there’s anything interesting or conclusive in there. I’d like to think it doesn’t matter, and that teams from pitcher’s parks, hitter’s parks, and whatever is in between those, are all about equally represented.
Chris_FB - January 24, 2012
Isn't Yankee Stadium considered hitter-friendly?
Aly Edge - January 25, 2012
I fail reading comprehension
I thought you said more than half were in pitchers’ parks. Nevermind
Aly Edge - January 25, 2012
Before people get carried away
You should probably read Dave Cameron’s argument for making the park more RH-hitter-friendly from the last time this came up.
J0SER - January 24, 2012
Damn. I forgot about that.
I hereby rescind my previous comment.
browl - January 24, 2012
The best part about that is the bit about Cliff Lee Trade under the main comment.
Cascadian Man - January 24, 2012
about the*
Dammit.
Cascadian Man - January 24, 2012
I remember that.
Problem Solved!
ThundaPC - January 24, 2012
I think I am missing something here.
Obviously the team wants to maximize its advantage but is troubled by the player pool. This is the same issue faced across all teams, though. While there are teams with more resources that can better facilitate collections of specialized talent, in general, all teams will face the same struggles in Safeco. However, if the Mariners can overcome this and build a team tailored to their home field, isn’t their advantage going to be larger than if they balanced LH and RH? If the field benefits both equally, all teams start on even footing. At that point the Mariners no longer build a team around the park and have the whole player pool to choose from.
Ultimately, is that beneficial to the team? Does the ability to choose from all available players outweigh the potential disadvantage Safeco gives to away teams?
branochilly - January 24, 2012
The Park was built for the Griffey homer and the Edgar double...
Homer’s to right and line-drive doubles to left. Keep it as is, please.
Rougtan - January 24, 2012
It would be nice to keep it as it is
if we still had 1998 versions of Griffey and Edgar on the team!
the tourist - January 24, 2012
Think of how good the team would be if we added two superstars to the team!
joof - January 25, 2012
If anything they need to change the scoreboard/big screen situation.
The big screen is about the size of an iPad. We have all that space and tucked in a tiny corner is a home tv sized big screen. Why not make the whole thing a monitor and display adds on it, and then we could see replays (or whatnot) when they show them.
Smegmalicious - January 24, 2012
I've been told they're working on it.
Two Rs and Two Ls - January 24, 2012
It might've made sense when Bavasi kept bringing in people who were a terrible fit for the park to bring in the left field fence
But now that Z has been pretty good about bringing in people who are good fits for the existing dimensions, it might do more harm than good.
OlSalty - January 24, 2012
Wait you already basically said this.
Well, fudge.
OlSalty - January 24, 2012
Runs are more valuable in a pitcher's park.
High K and GB pitchers are more valuable in a hitter’s park.
The Mariners currently have bad hitters and good pitchers. A fence move would thus be beneficial to the team. Once that happens, they should go out and find a right-handed bopper.
mamaxmax - January 24, 2012
You mean like that Montero kid?
WhyGodWhy - January 24, 2012
He hits opposite way too, though
At least that’s what I’m told.
s0merand0mdude - January 26, 2012
The funny thing is that I think of shortening LF not so much for the hitters as our fielders.
Raul Ibanez was a nice hitter. He gave up most of his value because he played in a pasture out there. I have the fear that Mike Carp is going to have similar problems.
Two Rs and Two Ls - January 24, 2012
Mike Carp has an excuse
He is not now, nor has he ever been, an actual outfielder.
Rauuuuuuuuuul played OF (and catcher, oddly enough) all throughout his time in the minors.
Aly Edge - January 25, 2012
Remember that home run Mike Carp stole out in LF?
That was a good little time.
cwel87 - January 25, 2012
"Benefit the club"
That they haven’t moved the fences after fielding two of the weakest hitting clubs in recent history is a good sign. I’m sure they were tempted after Beltre and Griffey’s 2009 and the horrific 2010-11 – not because it’d give the team an advantage, but just to give the fans something else to look at. The team has had talent problems for years, not stadium problems.
Man in the glass going “Pew pew pew!” and firing an imaginary gun at the batter. who can’t hear him, of course, because glass. Batter wondering if he’s stuttering or meowing.
marc w - January 24, 2012
Leave the fences the same
I feel like safeco is one of the last remaining fair parks. You hit the ball well it’s a HR and if you don’t it’s caught. Novel concept. All these parks where you pop it up and you hit a hr skew the numbers. I would hate to see them move the fences in.
I also find it annoying the number of times Mariners hit routine fly balls and stare out at the fence as if it robbed them of something.
bigtrain21 - January 25, 2012 via Android app
Hmph.
In my book, Safeco is NOT a fair park for RH.
Remember, this is not a binary measure; this is a matter of degrees. You can still make it hard to hit right handed HR without making it ridiculous as it is now.
rtang - January 25, 2012
We already survive with no dingers, move that shit back.
Make it 500 in center. Hit it out now, Albert. I bet that would help Charlie’s HR rate.
the other side - January 25, 2012
Go the other way
Make the outfield bigger and get rid of the fences completely. Also, maybe 500 feet or so from home, there should be a bunch of monuments to old Mariners players – and the monuments should be in play.
Yeah, that’d be insanely great.
Also we should start referring to Smoak as the “Iron Horse”.
Westside guy - January 25, 2012
I don't want to take your jokey metaphor to the extreme or anything
but that story would kind of have a crappy ending for Smoak.
Aly Edge - January 25, 2012
So a ball that bounces off the statue of Griffey in a barcolounger in CF... groundrule double?
Chris_FB - January 25, 2012
If the ball hits it, the batter's out.
It represents waking Griffey up from his nap.
bfl001 - January 25, 2012
It's quite simple really
I suggest every year before the start of the season, the Mariners adjust the fences accordingly based on roster. With Carp in left this year we could definitely make it a little less roomy for him perhaps… think of how else we could mold the park to the roster!
Or perhaps use it as a way to get more out of the free agent market. No good lefty starters available but a plethora of righties? Bam, switch the left and right field dimensions. Problem solved.
Think about it, this could give us a unique power in negotiations with free agents as well leverage in renegotations. Want to exercise your no trade clause fictional high paid crappy pitcher? Bam, fences just got moved in!
paulmer37 - January 25, 2012
Brilliant
And still stumped on how to get rid of our Figgins problem? Boom, Safeco now plays with no 3rd base.
Zzufan - January 25, 2012
Retractable fences?
sofa_king - January 25, 2012 via mobile
by the half inning?
could they make the fences move slowly enough for no one to notice?
C Dubya - January 25, 2012
With a trompe l'oeil painted on for the bottom of the inning, so they look like they haven't moved
Chris_FB - January 25, 2012 via mobile
Big fans around the perimeter that blow during the bottom half and in during the top half
Much as the Twins were said to do with the AC in the Metrodome
The team could design them to look like windmills and claim it was all part of a green energy initiative.
J0SER - January 25, 2012
If we're bringing movable or retractable fences into, time to add a little revolving platform for the statue of Dave
He starts the game facing away. He revolves to face the field when the team is ahead. Turns again if they lose the lead. Spins on a home run. Fireworks, spinning, mustard fountains and salami slices fired from a hidden salad shooter on a grand slam.
Chris_FB - January 25, 2012 via mobile
Rec'd
sofa_king - January 25, 2012 via mobile
You don't need to say "rec'd"
Just rec the damned comment.
Aaron Campeau - January 25, 2012
We are just the worst.
Eyebrows - January 25, 2012 via mobile
You can't rec on mobile
sofa_king - January 25, 2012 via mobile
I hope they never move the fences in.
I was legitimately angry when Detroit moved in the fences at Comerica, and I don’t even care about the Tigers.
I just want more large parks. I would like more diversity in parks. If all the parks are bandboxes, then all the teams can be built the same way and that would be dull.
Llewdor - January 25, 2012
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