Jeff Cirillo was a Mariner in 2002 and 2003. The Mariners gave up some talent to get him, and also paid him good money. He posted a 64 OPS+. The three years before, he posted a 106 OPS+. Over the remainder of his career, he posted a 93 OPS+. His Baseball-Reference WAR was -0.3. His FanGraphs WAR was 0.9.
Scott Spiezio was a Mariner in 2004 and 2005. The Mariners paid him good money. He posted a 57 OPS+. The three years before, he posted a 106 OPS+. Over the remainder of his career, he posted a 108 OPS+. His Baseball-Reference WAR was -0.4. His FanGraphs WAR was -0.8.
0 recs | 111 comments
We seem to have issues with 3Bs who come to our franchise.
Outside of Beltre I guess…
JWAY - February 10, 2012
I think I speak for all Giants fans when I say
Fuck Scott Spiezio.
jctGamer - February 10, 2012
Spiez is going to win this going away.
Bad tats and former Angels being the tie-breakers
J0SER - February 10, 2012
I sure was dissapointed in Cirillo
I thought he would have been an excellent addition based on his milwaukee/colorado time. However I did not hate him. Player A I hated from before he was an M.
plish - February 10, 2012
I have a vague recollection of Spiezio saying critical things of the Mariners after he left
Jeff Sullivan - February 10, 2012
so fuck that fucker
Jeff Sullivan - February 10, 2012
I also remember this yet can't seem to find much.
There was this, however…Scott Spiezio will never work for Seattle’s board of tourism
Omerta - February 10, 2012
Scott Spiezio it is.
Troll.
ThundaPC - February 10, 2012
So did Carlos Guillen!
katal - February 10, 2012
At kinda had a point.
the other side - February 10, 2012
At = He
the other side - February 10, 2012
Maybe in your world.
JLProck - February 10, 2012
Bingo. At least when Cirillo sucked balls, he had the decency to keep his fucking mouth shut while doing so.
Goose - February 10, 2012
How many times can I vote for Cirillo
lemonverbena - February 10, 2012 via mobile
I'd just like to point out that you used his name in a post
Aaron Campeau - February 10, 2012
Holy shit!
This takes me back…
appleshampoo - February 10, 2012
I think I dropped the Player A thing some time ago
It did cross my mind, but then the people who don’t know what I’m talking about might not vote right.
Jeff Sullivan - February 10, 2012
I have seen Player A mentioned several times over the course of my LL experience
I never knew what it meant until now.
d0nkey - February 10, 2012
I joined LL in early 2010 and still know him as Player A.
harkening - February 10, 2012
Can we call Figgins Player B?
WhyGodWhy - February 10, 2012
Let's ask Jeff.
harkening - February 10, 2012
Racist
OlSalty - February 10, 2012
B is for Back of Bus
I’m pretty sure that was on Sesame Street, so it’s not racist
Craptastic-J - February 10, 2012
Someone was player B for a while
Matt Thornton maybe
Trenchtown - February 10, 2012
I was shocked to see that.
I still won’t use his name. I hate Player A.
Llewdor - February 10, 2012
One man is disliked on the blog.
The other man is disliked so much on the blog people refuse to say his name.
Easy choice.
Benne - February 10, 2012
I have more bad feelings about Cirillo, for some reason.
I guess at that time I had higher hopes, coming off of 2001. It seemed like he was going to be able to help the team keep it up. Greater disappointment = greater dislike.
b_rider - February 10, 2012
The stupid red goatee/soul patch thing makes this an easy choice for me
Nick S - February 10, 2012
I didn't even think twice.
thehemogoblin - February 12, 2012
Wow I had forgotten how good of a player Cirillo was before coming to the M's
From 1996-2001 he averaged just about 4.9 WAR per year (fangraphs), then… Mariners!
TIFO - February 10, 2012
Spiezio easily.
And not just for the slant rhyme. The whole thing where he blamed Mariner fans for his awfulness was unforgivable.
Bearskin Rugburn - February 10, 2012
Especially since he was never a very good player...
TIFO - February 10, 2012
Huh I remember it being worse than this but
link
Bearskin Rugburn - February 10, 2012
Yeah I thought there was more to it then that, but that was really it.
There was this:
And this:
Seems fairly benign to me…
Omerta - February 10, 2012
Fuck that guy
HititHere - February 10, 2012
"teammates who play hard and are team players"
As opposed to taking a bunch of heroin.
Aaron Campeau - February 10, 2012
Cirillo was awful, but I also felt kind of bad for him.
His wife was from here, his kids grew up Mariners fans. I seem to remember an article where they interviewed him and his family and the kids were saying things to the effect of “daddy, we love you, but you are hurting the Mariners and we wish you played for another team.” He wasn’t a bad glove either.
Sandfrog was just a douche. He was awful. He wouldn’t take much responsibility for being awful. Then he talked shit after he left, turned out to be okay for a while on a purely Baseball-playing level, then crashed his car and had various substance abuse issues.
Cirillo was bad at baseball. Sandfrog, in addition to being bad at baseball, was a bad person.
JY - February 10, 2012
"Daddy, we love you, but you are hurting the Mariners and we wish you played for another team."
ouch… That’s cold.
TIFO - February 10, 2012
The team comes first.
PissedMick - February 10, 2012
In looking for the Seattle bashing quote I found that he was arrested for stealing a cabbie's phone.
He had broken the guy’s glasses and punched him over a fare dispute. The phone was found when the responding officer, on the cabbie’s instructions, dialed his number and heard the ring coming from Spiezio’s gf’s purse.
Bearskin Rugburn - February 10, 2012
FUCK THAT GUY
HititHere - February 10, 2012
I hope he gets the Ebola virus
SuperDopaLiciousFunkStar - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Cirillo was always spitting. Always.
Kermit. - February 10, 2012
How ironic is it that both of those awful players posted 106 OPS+ in the three years before the Mariners?
Thanks for showing this. My daily torture level wasn’t yet where it needed to be.
Kyleo84 - February 10, 2012
Ironic?
Matthew - February 10, 2012
A strange coincidence
Exact same number before Seattle and both pitiful once they got here.
Kyleo84 - February 10, 2012
Strange coincidence != irony
Eyebrows - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Perhaps he was ironically misusing the term.
Comma - February 10, 2012
If only there was a word like coincidental
to describe coincidences.
Matthew - February 10, 2012
Boy, those Germans have a word for everything.
Jed MC - February 10, 2012
WHY DO THEY ALWAYS GET BETTER WHEN THEY LEAVE
pdb - February 10, 2012
It would be worse (and funnier) if they had posted 206 OPS+ and then tanked
seattlebruin - February 13, 2012
I loathe them equally as players.
I hate Spiezio because he was a complete dirt bag who wasn’t only bad on the field but to the fans and his teammates. Fuck Player A.
harkening - February 10, 2012
I feel like Cirillo sucked at a more critical time.
I mean it was right when a good guy would have kept us in the playoffs.
I also couldn’t stand his choke of the error record.
Smegmalicious - February 10, 2012
Good point.
We won 93 games despite his ineptitude, imagine if he could’ve contributed.
Omerta - February 10, 2012
I think Cirillo and Player A are the biggest reasons Seattle fans think players are great before and after being M's
They are the prime and most vivid examples that I can remember.
HititHere - February 10, 2012
I don't remember thinking Jeff Cirillo was a bad person.
But Scott Spiezio seemed like a real cocksucker. Fuck him for talking shit about Seattle.
Kenneth Arthur - February 10, 2012
Fuck Player A
Tooliest tool in the tool box.
JAH - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Player A by a long shot.
I really don’t remember disliking Cirillo that much at all.
BigR - February 10, 2012
Cirillo seemed more disappointing as a player, despite similar stats
(I can remember my 12 year-old self wanting Scott Rolen)
Agent_J - February 10, 2012
I hated Spiezio as a person way more
But my mind will always blame Cirillo for the M’s not making the playoffs.
MT Olson - February 10, 2012
Spiezio has such a hateable face.
Alex Kelly - February 10, 2012
Nice
chin mange.
xmet - February 10, 2012
I was really hoping someone wouldn't post this picture.
Jackington - February 10, 2012
Based on my rudimentary knowledge of park factors I assumed Cirillo was going to suck.
Scott Spezio was a mondo douche burrito from taco del mar so the answer here is pretty easy. 10 years from now though I think Silva and Figgins are going to outweigh the hate by a pretty spectacular margin.
CapSea - February 10, 2012
I think Silva's incredible burger eating skills less make me hate him and more make me afraid of him.
Llewdor - February 10, 2012
I love Scott Spiezio
Poochie - February 10, 2012 via Android app
You just love the way his stupid beard stripe tickles you
abender20 - February 10, 2012
Whatever I seem to recall him hitting pretty well
Poochie - February 10, 2012
I also recall him being a poor rock and roll singer
Poochie - February 10, 2012
Yep
Poochie - February 10, 2012
I pretty much see them as one person in my head.
the other side - February 10, 2012
The SBN Brewers blog just did an article about potential future Brewers in the Hall of fame that I stumbled accross from a link to on the Baseball Nation page.
Link
This quote surprised me: “Cirillo was a very good player, but if he appears on the ballot and gets no votes it shouldn’t be a surprise.” I looked him up on B-Ref and, of course, Cirillo had 113 OPS+ as a Brewer and OPS+ of under 100 for every other team he played for, including a 64 OPS+ in over 800 plate appearances as a Mariner. It is NO WONDER that I remember him as being terrible and Brewer fans remember him as very good.
Still, I just remember Cirillo as being bad and a bit whiny. I remember Spiezio as being bad and being an asshole.
quacker27 - February 10, 2012
He was under 100 even as a Rockie?
I’d’ve thought that was unpossible.
Aly Edge - February 10, 2012
Well it's park adjusted and he played in the moon version of Coors Field
Mariner John - February 11, 2012
Yeah. He was right at 100 in 2000, his first year as a Rockie
Home OPS: 1.078
Away OPS: .628
Going from that environment to Safeco, from a park where breaking balls don’t work to one where they work very well, not to mention switching from NL pitching to AL, sets up a perfect storm for failure.
J0SER - February 11, 2012
http://images.lookoutlanding.com/images/admin/cirillos.JPG
Call Jack. I'm on my way. - February 10, 2012
Spiezio was a douchebag and he sucked terribly
But Cirillo cost us two potential playoff berths by being a black hole at third base (at the plate, at least).
As a Mariners fan, I dislike Cirillo’s play more, because it had a greater negative impact on the Mariners. As a human being, I want to punch Scott Spiezio.
cwel87 - February 10, 2012
Great sum-up, my own feelings exactly.
I also feel that Cirillo being an overly expressive headcase, killed the “2 outs so what?” mojo we had going in 2001. That was an awesome team, the M’s have fallen so far, jeez.
daveinny - February 10, 2012
I sent some friends to Seattle to see a game. I said it was a nice day trip.
For the game they attended, Player A was DH, and his batting average was .052
Cirillo at least has some value with the glove. And he was never as bad as Player A was when Player A was at his worst.
Llewdor - February 10, 2012
Speizio was a dick.
chinn - February 10, 2012
Spiezio. And I'm a dick too.
chinn - February 10, 2012
Cirillo was a very good fielder
And I don’t recall Cirillo having any vulgar tattoos. Never liked Spiezio much. Didn’t like his dad that much either.
Elmer Antwhistle - February 10, 2012
Spiezio, and it ain't close.
Cirillo sucked at baseball. Spiezio sucked at baseball and came across as a bad human being. Fuck that douchetard.
VivaAyala - February 10, 2012
Do you remember back in 2005 when Player A got at least four hits in the entire season and then blamed everyone but himself?
Me either.
Jackington - February 10, 2012
Spiezio blows
I’m getting angry just thinking of him
Bohawk - February 10, 2012
Goddammit
Spiezio ruined my night. He sucks.
Bohawk - February 10, 2012
Cirillo seemed like a headcase, but not because of knuckle dragging frustration; more like a smart, over-thinking self-critic.
I can sympathize. If he ever said anything about other people I retract my statement, but he always seemed like he was doing everything he could, and he worked really hard. Spiezio was out of shape, and I hate fat people who get paid millions of dollars to play sports. Remember when Cirillo borrowed, was it Dan Wilson’s? bat and hit two dingers? That was awesome. I can totally see myself being Cirillo. He was a pitcher before, worked hard… I liked the guy. I’m not seeing as many whiny quotes from him here, either.
tsunamijesus - February 10, 2012
Voted Cirillo
Only because I remember they fucked with the winningest team in the goddamn history of the game and Cirillo was the guy. I know it’s unfair but I don’t care, he’s the reason we didn’t win 116 games again.
Scrupio - February 10, 2012
Sandfrog, for the same reason as everyone else voting for him.
Many players made a ton of money for sucking. Many complete wastes of skin have made way too much money.
It’s the combination of the two that I find infuriating.
Sidi - February 10, 2012
Fucking Sandfrog.
sanford_and_son - February 10, 2012
Tough call
I hated the Cirillo trade from the instant it was made, just because I figured the Mariners gave up too much to get him. I figured he’d still be pretty ok, just that the price was too high. RIGHT. But he seems like he’s an okay guy, from what I know.
Spieizio is a true shithead, from what I know (and, yes, what I know may be way off). I’m a little surprised that he was statistically worse than Cirillo. I liked this acquisition much better at the time.
I guess the nod goes to Cirillo, but it’s damn close.
Aly Edge - February 10, 2012
Brian Fuentes, Jose Paniagua and Denny Stark were too much to give up?
harkening - February 10, 2012
Do you expect me to defend my baseball knowledge from age 15?
Because I’m not gonna.
And Fuentes kinda turned out to be pretty good.
Aly Edge - February 10, 2012
I hate Player A
But as far as I know he doesn’t disagree with my political stances, nor would he gladly nail my sister if he had the means and equipment, so I voted for Cirillo.
Trenchtown - February 10, 2012
Take a look at the tattoo dedicated to his "girlfriend..."
He’d nail your sister in an instant. And your grandmother.
Sidi - February 10, 2012
I don't have a sister. I could never figure out if "lack of sister" fell under means or under equipment
Which made me hate Cirillo all the more
Trenchtown - February 10, 2012
Player A, no question.
Cirillo was happy and productive in Colorado, he was specifically targeted by Lou as “the bat” he wanted (that season), the team traded three players for him, he came ‘home’ and was just terrible. He tried and tried and got worse and worse and felt miserable about it.
Spiez was just slimemold.
msb - February 10, 2012
msb, that comment is totally unfair
to slimemold. Some slimemold is entirely benign.
Breadbaker - February 13, 2012
If I ever saw Cirillo in a bar, I'd tell him I wasn't a fan of his when he was a Mariner, but I'd still buy him a drink, shake his hand, and congratulate him on a solid career.
If I ever saw Player A in a bar, I’d tell him I hated him as a Mariner, and I hated him everywhere else he was in baseball, then I’d buy a drink, throw it in his face, flip him off, and tell him he can die in a fire.
Goose - February 10, 2012
Such an easy choice.
Big Jared - February 10, 2012
Cirillo
part-owner of the Walla Walla Sweets. and runs a baseball camp.
Supposedly Spiez has cleaned up his act.
msb - February 10, 2012
Cleaned up his act meaning he's no longer a substance abuser?
But is he still a raging douchebag?
harkening - February 10, 2012
The article says he was helped by "the guidance of his pastors at Mariners Church".
Not sure what to make of that.
morrow - February 11, 2012
Coincidentally, arguably ironically, named.
I’m assuming it’s this SoCal metachurch.
harkening - February 11, 2012
This is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, my favorite type of all time
Aaron Campeau - February 11, 2012
I'm late to this, but I have to add that
Player A is a cuntbooger.
Romanes eunt domus - February 11, 2012
Sandfrog
That is all.
pineda - February 11, 2012 via mobile
Why does it seem that free agents we sign
immediately tank when they put on that mariners uniform?
Eric Wedge's Mustache - February 11, 2012
Cirillo, at least, had some defensive value.
Spiezio provided little of that. I actually felt that in 2003, the Mariners should have just stuck with Cirillo at third, even with his poor hitting. It seemed to me all the machinations they went through to try and improve the position messed up other things, which may have been more of a detriment. It may have been better if they just said “we know he’s going to suck at the plate, but at least we get good fielding, and we can have some continuity and not mess with other things we’re trying to do on the field if we just stick with him there”. And by doing so, they may have gotten better results from him at the plate as well.
Well, maybe. Not much reason to believe that, but just based on regression, there’s a chance that he would’ve have improved with more time at the plate.
nathaniel dawson - February 12, 2012
I voted Cirillo
I lived in Colorado for a few years before Seattle picked him up and I was about as sure as one could reasonably be that Cirillo would be a terrific addition to the Ms. Spiezio by contrast, was a player I (and most people, really) felt was over-rated at the time of his signing long before he sucked. I remember USSM ripped the Spiezio signing pretty damn hard. So when Spiezio did indeed suck, he sucked worse than we expected, but we expected his contract to be a bad thing going in anyway.
As I recall, Spiezio actually had a hot start with the Ms, maybe providing some false hope. Then he sucked and sucked amazingly, far beyond Cirillo’s level of suckitude. Still, I have to go with Cirillo just because the expectations were so much higher for him, and his lack of contribution hurt more because those 2002 and 2003 teams were actually very good teams that missed the playoffs, whereas the Spiezio years were never in doubt.
Kip Earlywine - February 13, 2012
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