I try to remain skeptical while not pessimistic about news. I prefer actions to words as words can be deliberately used for manipulation whereas actions, well those can be manipulative too, but the action still gets done. In the baseball world, this is nowhere more apparent than in managerial quotes, which I highlighted last summer. It's also readily seen with offseason rumors. You are all probably going to be saner if you just chill and wait for actual moves to occur rather than stressing out over tadpoles that will never develop into frogs.
Such has been my stance on the arena talks that have leaked recently and the inevitable hopes for a rekindled NBA and new-to-Seattle NHL teams. However
BREAKING: Source tells me press conference scheduled at #Seattle City Hall to announce deal on new sports arena complex...
— Chris Daniels (@ChrisDaniels5) February 16, 2012
this might start being worth paying attention to.
[17:51 UPDATE]: Seattle Times chips in with a short piece backing up, but not confirming, that talks are close. News conference scheduled for 2pm tomorrow.
0 recs | 485 comments
I love Seattle City so this would be awesome!
Go Steelheads!
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
My vote is still for the Sockeyes
Cascadian Man - February 15, 2012
We already have the Seattle Sockeye
Ultimate Frisbee team. Perennial top-10 worldwide.
mamaxmax - February 15, 2012
Idaho has already claimed the Steelheads, dipshit
Corco - February 15, 2012
They can keep the dipshit part
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Tell that to the Kelly Cup!
yuniform - February 16, 2012 via Android app
Gotta say, that Knicks-Kings game just keeps get more interesting
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
Since when do you give a patoot about basketball?
Not that you should… just wondering.
Brian Sullivan - February 15, 2012
Oh, whoops.
Thought that was Jeff who posted this. ;)
Brian Sullivan - February 15, 2012
His own brother, ladies and gentleman.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
I don't. To hell with basketball.
But other people care.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Besides, both Jeff and Matthew are big NHL fans
The real question is, does either transfer allegiance to a prospective Seattle team?
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
After Alfie retires, I think it might be difficult not to.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Since you actually follow the NHL, is there anything worth getting excited about
On the Coyotes roster?
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
Let's say they'd fit in well with the Seahawks and Mariners motif
Matthew - February 15, 2012
What's one more rebuilding project among friends?
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
Not necessarily rebuilding.
Just, can’t score, can play D.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Don't forget the Sounders in that group!
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
They scored the most goals in the MLS last year.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Clearly I'm an avid fan
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
There's a reason I didn't say "Seattle" motif
The Sounders and Huskies football
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Two reasons
Matthew - February 15, 2012
With what, like five goals?
Nobody scores in soccer ever
Corco - February 15, 2012
The Sounders scored 6 in a game last year.
Robert - February 15, 2012
The Seahawks score six every time they cross the end zone during a normal play
Corco - February 15, 2012
See the forest for the arbitrary point value assigned to the game event
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
They play on the same grass
Corco - February 15, 2012
But seriously, even ignoring point values, aren't all soccer teams defense-first?
The very nature of the game just isn’t offense-oriented
Corco - February 15, 2012
True
They even put a guy with big mittens right in front of the goal.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
No
Graham MacAree - February 15, 2012
When I was six I played soccer on the local park team and a girl called me "chicken" and it has scarred me ever since
Corco - February 15, 2012
You should've kicked the ball to her face.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
I was too chicken
Corco - February 15, 2012
Based on my experience following a team at the very highest level I must disagree
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
Field Turf!
Robert - February 15, 2012
And boy do people never let me forget that.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Except that they can score, play D
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Win things.
Really don’t follow that Seattle motif.
Robert - February 15, 2012
The Seahawks could score more than enough until they got rid of Hasselbeck
Robert - February 15, 2012
Their vintage jersey is something to be excited about
I don’t know about anyone else, but I really liked their old jersey. That’s what got me interested in the team at 8 years old.
Fin - February 15, 2012
I really like that jersey!
I would buy that!
katal - February 15, 2012
Aww man we usually agree on everything :(
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
=(
I had the same reaction when I read your comment below.
katal - February 15, 2012
Samesies.
Unfortunately I don’t think they will be called the Coyotes when they move up here.
Fin - February 15, 2012
Spotted Owls
hairofthedawg - February 16, 2012
Agree 110%
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
and this is how you know your opinion is wrong!
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
It's hard for me to evaluate it without bias now
Since I actually had one of those jerseys as a kid and loved the thing.
Tophawkeye - February 15, 2012
I am sorry but that is fucking terrible.
It’s like somebody made a 90s Dbacks uniform WORSE.
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
But there is a wolf playing hockey! With a moon on his jersey!
It also has a Native American motif along the sides!
katal - February 15, 2012
needs more neon green
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
No I like the dark green
Matches the Northwest colors better.
Fin - February 15, 2012
Neon Green is a northwest color now.
Much like Black/Yellow is to Pittsburgh, neon green is now instantly recognizable with Seattle.
Robert - February 15, 2012
I don't know if I'd call it a northwest color.
Certain NW cities haven’t exactly earned the right to use it.
katal - February 15, 2012
Teal.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
One team in Seattle barely uses it and it's a really shitty color
Robert - February 15, 2012
.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Gorgeous.
katal - February 15, 2012
I saw this jersey in person the other night
Not actually as ugly as it looks on the screen but they probably had better options in terms of the collar color.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Beats the stupid silver strap.
BrianL - February 15, 2012
That's powder blue not teal.
Robert - February 15, 2012
No, this is powder blue
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Disagree
Robert - February 15, 2012
That is not powder blue.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
This is closer.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
This is powder blue
Eric Wedge's Mustache - February 15, 2012
Only the Chargers could fuck up the best throwbacks in football
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
What in the world is wrong with you?
Robert - February 15, 2012
If you think that shiny shirt is better than this
then I don’t know what to tell you.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Isn't the official color 'super cyan'?
wyte_lightning - February 15, 2012
Super Cyan makes me think of a Final Fantasy 6 limit breaker.
katal - February 15, 2012
would've gone with Dragonball Z, myself
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
There's a Cyan in DBZ?
I’m not arguing, just having trouble remembering.
katal - February 15, 2012
Saiyan
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
Ohhhhh.
katal - February 15, 2012
sounds like "Super Saiyan"
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
Limit breaks didn't come out until 7!
GAWD!
JAH - February 15, 2012
Chalk this up
to a thread I never expected to see on a baseball blog. But on a night like tonight everything seems abnormally awesome.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
Well, if we're going to be nerds about it...
VI had proto-limit breaks, the desperation attacks that characters would randomly do if you had them select Fight when they were already critical. But since a lot of people weren’t using fight commands later in the game or would heal as soon as the critical state was reached, it was pretty easy to go through an entire game without seeing one.
JY - February 15, 2012
Actually it is cyan
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
Close enough
Robert - February 15, 2012
That's the best.
JAH - February 15, 2012
I like it minus the wolf.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Laura just pointed out to me that it's probably a coyote, not a wolf.
I feel foolish.
katal - February 15, 2012
Oh I don't know it's probably a wolf.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
Kinda looks like a bear.
Robert - February 15, 2012
my brain had problems connecting the white half of the head to the rest
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
The white half is the part that's good at hockey.
Robert - February 15, 2012
You didn't realize ahead of time
that the logo on the front of a Phoenix Coyotes jersey was probably a coyote and not a wolf?
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
I can live with the logo.
It’s the blanket pattern and ugly Seattle Storm colors (yes I know they were Sonics colors too).
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
This deserves to lay in the graveyard along with the rest of the 90's.
Benne - February 15, 2012
Dude, it's not nearly bad as this.
Fin - February 15, 2012
Mmmmm fishsticks
Mariner John - February 15, 2012
I was on Long Island when these came out.
I’ve never gotten what was wrong with it.
Robert - February 15, 2012
The real takeaway from this is that 90's hockey jerseys were fucking awful.
Benne - February 15, 2012
That reminds me of the old school Astros uniforms.
JY - February 15, 2012
Hello, worst sweater in NHL history
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
No.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Tough call
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Nope, the new-age hockey wolf is definitely worse
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Hockey Coyote
Fin - February 15, 2012
What are, things that don't go together
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
The only thing it's missing is the wolf wearing bright neon and rapping.
XTREEEEEMMMMEE
Benne - February 15, 2012
I like this because it reminds me of the Simpsons episode with Johnny Cash
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
Take that, Space Coyote!
FreeSeanKazmar - February 16, 2012 via mobile
This is because of the kicking, isn't it.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
As a Coyotes fan
I would have to say, yes, there are some exciting players on the team. The Hanzal-Vrbata-Whitney line is solid, and Mike Smith is a threat to score from anywhere on the ice (he’s the goalie, but I’m only mostly joking). Smith is athletic and loves to play the puck, but sometimes he just doesn’t know when to get back or stay in the net. Boyd Gordon was the biggest offseason pickup and is winning 57% of his faceoffs (9th best in the league and very important to the PK). Okay, maybe there’s not much to be excited about if the third thing on my list is a faceoff percentage.
Boedker and Korpikoski are fast and have 20-goal potential. Doan is a decent role player, but the fans down here have elevated him to Edgar status without Edgar stats.
Overall, Matthew is correct, as defense rules the day down here. The power play is a joke, and if they get a lead they trap their opponent to death. Yandle is very talented with the puck and can create opportunities and space, but often has silly turnovers in the defensive zone. Ekman-Larsson has 21 points from the blue line and is just 20 years old, but still learning how to play defense. David Schlemko might just be the best defensive player on a good defensive team, while Adrian Aucoin and Rostislav Klesla are also consistantly solid.
The biggest reason for optimism is Dave Tippett and goalie coach Sean Burk, because without them, this team wouldn’t be anywhere near the top 8. If the young forwards (Korpikoski, Brule, and Boedker) make big strides in the next couple years, or if they can infuse some outside talent onto the front line (through draft, trade, or FA), they have 105-point potential with that young, good defense.
TripleAvery - February 16, 2012
Hell yeah!
This is AWESOME news for Seattle and hopefully this means the Sonics are back next year and we get a NHL team finally.
Ghost of Bobby Ayala - February 15, 2012
Holy crap.
Bring on the Cascades!
ScottBrowne - February 15, 2012
Disney on Ice still touring?
RangerMad - February 15, 2012 via Android app
That's amazing. Such exciting news.
Kenneth Arthur - February 15, 2012
Just posted at the Seattle Times website
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017517805_hansen16m.html
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
.
Cascadian Man - February 15, 2012
GENE
ScottBrowne - February 15, 2012
You got me again!!!!!!!
mathgeek99 - February 15, 2012
ANOTHER QUOTE FROM THE SHOW
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
And now Seattle gets to end up as just another Oklahoma City!
Hooray!
Coach Owens - February 15, 2012
That part does legitimately suck.
Though taking the Coyotes from Phoenix would elicit no sympathy from me. That’s very little like what happened here.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Seriously, Phoenix is a blight on America
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
I only live 100 miles from Phoenix and have for over a year now and I have never heard anybody even mention the Coyotes or wear Coyotes gear or anything
I don’t think anybody would notice
Corco - February 15, 2012
It's tough
Because the 20,000 or so dedicated fans would notice. It’s not significant enough for me to rationally be upset about them leaving (especially to Seattle), but 20,000 is more than 0, so somebody would notice.
TripleAvery - February 16, 2012
Disclaimer
The Coyotes have 32,000 Twitter followers. and 81,000 Facebook fans. So that’s more scientific.
TripleAvery - February 16, 2012
Let me try to feel bad about this
Nope, can’t do it.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
I'll feel angry if it involves substantial public money.
I was proud of the city (sort of) taking a stand against financing billionaires only to be repaid with “what have you done for me lately?” Seriously, fuck David Stern. Fuck all those people.
But if it’s more of a private-public arrangement with limited public backing, then good. The NHL team is probably coming from a market that doesn’t care and never should have had a team. The NBA can still go fuck itselves.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Sounds like the arena will at least partly be paid for
by taxes on tickets to games/events there…which seems so entirely reasonable that of course it’s never come up as an idea before.
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
The NBA can go fuck itselves but that doesn't stop me from desperately wanting Sonics 2.0
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Aren't the teams they are talking about ones that would be leaving no matter what, due to $
(as opposed to sold out from under the town?)
msb - February 15, 2012
Kings aren't necessarily leaving
but it’s less someone coming in with the specific intent of moving the team and then doing so (the Kings’ ownership hasn’t changed hands recently AFAIK).
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
I wonder about the Hornets, which don't have an owner as such.
JY - February 15, 2012
I would find it ironic that Stern would give us back a NBA team four years after he relocated it.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
How is that ironic?
katal - February 15, 2012
That's more infuriating than ironic.
JY - February 15, 2012
Not if Seattle "learns its lesson" and builds him a new arena.
I think I’d rather not have a team than let his side win.
PissedMick - February 16, 2012
Eh, I think it's way more nuanced than that
Aaron Campeau - February 16, 2012
It would be even more hilarious if they get the Hornets, because the Hornets playing in Oklahoma City was one of the events that started the path to the Sonic leaving.
joof - February 16, 2012
Stealing from the people of New Orleans would be pretty disgusting.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
We stole their playoff hopes thirteen months ago.
katal - February 15, 2012
Stole?
More like claimed what was and always will be ours.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Beast didn't stole nothing!
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
Darren Sharper HOLDMADIIIIIIIIICK!
JLProck - February 16, 2012
Agreed, but they're 27 of 30 in attendance.
JY - February 15, 2012
And in receivership
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
It is kind of hard to blame them when you look at the team they put out there every night.
After drafting Chris Paul, a giant no brainer, this is how they used their first rounders.
Hilton Armstrong at 12 overall (not in the league)
Cedric Simmons at 15 overall (lol)
Julian Wright at 13 overall (Surprise! not in the league)
Darrell Arthur at 27 overall, ostensibly decent value but traded him
Darren Collison at 21 overall, hard to argue with I guess
Cole Aldrich at 11 (too early)
Their free agent signings were more hilarious, but I’ll spare you. This team has been run like shit for the last decade and, other than striking gold with one of the best transformative players in the NBA, they’ve been ass. Fans respond accordingly.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
I haven't followed the NBA closely for years now, but this reminds me of a question I had about the league.
A high draft pick in the NBA seems more valuable than a high NFL or MLB draft pick. Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to trade mid-first round picks, stocking up on future picks, as to eventually be able to trade into the top-5? Does that strategy make sense at all?
katal - February 15, 2012
Why would you do that?
you could have twelve Cedric Simmons with those draft picks! And JR Smiths! And Tyler Hansbroughs!
seattlebruin - February 15, 2012
They took Armstrong 12th overall! He averaged 9.7 and 6.6 his senior year (with 3.1 blocks).
I get that it was off of a stacked team, but my goodness.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
This reminds me of a team in a different sport.
katal - February 15, 2012
I was just about to say that!
JY - February 15, 2012
The role of Cedric Simmons will be played by Baron.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
This reminds me of a team in the exact same sport
“With the 10th pick of the 2006 NBA draft, the Seattle SuperSonics select Mooha….Mooha-mud Sayer Senny….Senay….ah fuck it, some tall guy. He isn’t important”
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
Hiring Sam Presti made the move to OKC that much more painful.
JY - February 15, 2012
What if they stole the TV in the first place?
Robert - February 15, 2012
Aren't they the ones known for stealing from each other anyway?
seattlebruin - February 15, 2012
Not quite. We won't have our version of Clay Bennett promising to do their best to keep whatever franchise(s) in that town.
Patrick Stites - February 15, 2012
Oh man...
I’m really hoping this means we may get to see Squatch hit the ice! That’d make the wait worth it.
universalguru - February 15, 2012 via Android app
Why don't you have a seat over there?
Mayo - February 15, 2012
I was amazed to find nobody else here has pointed out the hilarity of a mystery man named chris hansen.
(except me, a second ago, down there on somebody else’s post…i swear i hadn’t seen this yet, i swear)
iHateDaveSims - February 15, 2012
I'm not
Robert - February 15, 2012
I must have missed the hilarious part. Where is it?
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Because he did the Dateline shows.
Hardy har!
Fin - February 15, 2012
Have a seat...
zeeehjee - February 15, 2012
Can't wait for the Seattle CapSeas to finally bring a championship to the city.
CapSea - February 15, 2012
King 5 as well:
A source tells KING 5 News a press conference is scheduled at Seattle City Hall Thursday to announce a deal on a new sports arena complex.
Cascadian Man - February 15, 2012
Huh, I mean Safeco's got a lame replay screen and everything
But I was still happy with it. I guess things just don’t last like they used to.
BigR - February 15, 2012
So we'll finally get to see what Christopher Hansen even looks like?
Seattle Times is teasing on twitter that they’ll have the whole interview up tonight.
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
This is probably some elaborate prank set up by David Stern as a way to fuck with Seattle fans
When the mystery man is revealed, it will just be Clay Bennett wearing nothing but a tie running around waving a double sided flag with the Thunder’s logo on one side and a Pittsburgh Steelers logo on the other
beastwarking - February 15, 2012
..or it will literally be chris hansen
telling us to take a seat and accuse us all of being pedophiles
iHateDaveSims - February 15, 2012
Everything about your comments is worse than the Treaty of Versailles
Robert - February 15, 2012
uh.. well... everything about your comments is worse than the spanish inquisition
iHateDaveSims - February 15, 2012
zing
iHateDaveSims - February 15, 2012
Are you sure about that?
Robert - February 15, 2012
Capitalization....
Patrick Stites - February 15, 2012
Content....
Robert - February 15, 2012
Username...
Robert - February 15, 2012
Thought process...
Robert - February 15, 2012
I sure didn't see that coming!
phiat - February 16, 2012
Picture is up on the front of the Seattle Times website
he is just working the stubble look.
casagrande - February 15, 2012
Dude needs to make a deal with the city to finance himself a new haircut.
JAH - February 15, 2012
Counting my chickens before they hatch.
So then what will the Sonic’s SB Nation’s page be called?
luciuswolfey_96 - February 15, 2012
Something awful
Kermit. - February 15, 2012
Already taken
beastwarking - February 15, 2012
claybennettsmistake.com?
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
The Airplane Pun Times
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
OKC Bombers
Geddit, because they’re planes, and OKC got bombed that one time, and seriously, fuck Clay Bennett.
Papa Chelmon - February 15, 2012
Midwest City High School, a suburb of OKC already took that name and they have a kickass water tower
so no
Corco - February 15, 2012
Richland Bombers (WA). Also have or had a mushroom cloud for the background
Kermit. - February 16, 2012
Background or mascot?
That would be the best/worst mascot ever!
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
.
lemonverbena - February 16, 2012
Meh.
That’s much less amusing than what I was hoping for.
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
They have a big ass mural of a B-17 as well.
the other side - February 16, 2012
Still do.
the other side - February 16, 2012
[Expletive] David Stern.
JAH - February 15, 2012
I don't know, but the logo needs to be Clay Bennett performing fellatio on David Stern.
fiftyone - February 16, 2012
No it doesn't
not at all
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
That's already taken, huh
fiftyone - February 16, 2012 via mobile
If we do get the Kings we might be getting Isaiah Thomas back.
algorhythm - February 15, 2012
On one hand I am glad that the people in Seattle that loved the Sonics are getting their team back.
If I ever lost the Seahawks it would absolutely destroy my soul.
But on the other the teams in the sports that I love the most (football, soccer and baseball) are already in this city. Adding two more teams into the mix will only hurt them. The Seahawks will be fine and always will be but I could see the Sounders and Mariners getting anywhere from hurt to buried by this news.
Basically it comes down to how petty I am and you would be surprised by how petty I can be.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Rising tide lifts all boats and so forth
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Mixed metaphors are like two peas in a pod
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Goose/gander = private/public partnership
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
You're right
I much prefer similes, too
mathgeek99 - February 15, 2012
Seattle would be one of two cities in this country that have NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS and a Division 1 football team the other being Chicago.
Now I love this city and I think our fans (even Seahawks fans) are incredibly underrated but do you really think that we could support all 6?
Robert - February 15, 2012
I don't live there so this is y'alls problem
But yes, I do. Worth a shot at least! I just want the goddamn Sonics back.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
out of curiosity, LA would be on the list if not for the NFL, right?
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
and New York lacks a distinct D1 team?
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
Suck it, New York and LA.
Patrick Stites - February 15, 2012
True statement, regardless of the context of the conversation.
ATM's34 - February 15, 2012
I think the relative sparseness of the surrounding western US might play in our favor
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
True
Vancouver has two teams (Canucks/Whitecaps) but is a huge market.
pdx only has the trailblazers so I’m sure we could draw fans from there.
Robert - February 15, 2012
d'oh
didn’t even consider Canada
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
Timbers?
ShipstadPilot11 - February 15, 2012
Never heard of them
Robert - February 15, 2012
Who?
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
What about Weyerhauser?
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
I suppose part of that depends on how much of the population is into multiple sports.
Goose - February 15, 2012
I'm more worried about the money that people have to spend on 5 seasons a year in the current economic status.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Maybe they'll all play like ass and they'll offer a really sweet package deal
Kermit. - February 15, 2012
It all depends on scheduling
I think as long there isn’t to much over lap then it should work out ok. People generally have a set amount of money to spend on entertainment.
LeftArrow2 - February 15, 2012 via mobile
Easily
Plenty of fans to go around.
bigtrain21 - February 15, 2012 via Android app
We would get an ESPNSeattle portal maybe
and all the extra coverage that having an ESPN gets you (for better or for worse).
algorhythm - February 15, 2012
Doubt it
I would be surprised if the bonzos in charge of those could even locate Seattle on a map.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Denver supports 5 pro teams and is a slightly smaller metro area than Seattle.
CU is also only forty minutes away from Denver, although I doubt the Huskies will be affected by this in any way.
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
Your inclusion of D1 football I find pointless.
College sports are a different breed from pro. Eight other cities have teams in NBA, NHL, NFL, MLB and MLS and there’s also Toronto which has four plus half the Buffalo Bills.
There’ll probably be some negative effect to the current three teams, yes, but it’s unlikely to be dramatic and I doubt it will hurt them if they’re winning.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
I can see all the pro teams chasing a discrete amount of corporate skybox money
while the UW football program’s resources (I’m assuming) are based more on the boosters’ personal connections to their institution.
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
Not to mention that you're still wrong because
Dallas has TCU
Philadelphia has Temple
Toronto has U Buffalo plus a CFL team
New York has Army
WashDC has U Maryland
Boston has Boston College
Denver has both UC Boulder and CSU
The Bay Area has Stanford and UC Berk.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
I was going by franchises located within the city limits.
Also the metro areas of those cities are much bigger.
Robert - February 15, 2012
UW has the largest fan base of any team in Seattle.
I don’t think this move changes anything for them. People just love the Dawgs.
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
The huge local alumni base helps a lot as well.
wyte_lightning - February 15, 2012
Exactly
This wouldn’t hurt the Huskies or the Seahawks. I worry about it hurting the Mariners, Sounders and the new NHL team.
Robert - February 15, 2012
That's where my concerns are as well.
Although the Sounders have found a large supportive fan base and as long as they can keep the product and atmosphere at a comparable level they should be fine. Also, even if Sounders attendance dropped 40% they would still be first in attendance.
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
I want to be have be in the top five attendance globally :(
Robert - February 15, 2012
Not if they keep closing off half the stadium during the games.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
So that's where all the missing verbs went.
JY - February 15, 2012
The new NHL team would most likely get a decent amount of support from BC
The Vancouver area hockey market is enormous and could probably support two teams itself.
Tophawkeye - February 15, 2012
I dunno
Local pride overrides that property IMO. I mean, we could help support the Trailblazers but nobody likes Portland enough to actually support them.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Including Portlanders.
harkening - February 15, 2012
I don't see many Canucks fans dropping their insane fandom
for an American team. Especially with the whole hockey-as-Canada’s-sport mentality. Especially when the Canucks are a top-tier NHL franchise
bomdal - February 16, 2012
I don't see them becoming fans either.
But I’m pretty sure that the Canucks are a very tough ticket to get. I could see Vancouver fans coming to Seattle for some select games, more out of love for the NHL than as Seattle fans.
Mind of no mind - February 16, 2012
Lord knows they come down for enough Blue Jays games.
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
Yeah I could definitely see that.
Especially when the Canadian teams would be visiting since their fans seem pretty spread out
bomdal - February 16, 2012
Although BC and Seattle are relatively close compared to other parts of the west, it's still 4 hours of travel time.
Also different broadcasting markets. Not exactly DC/Baltimore.
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
However:
You’d probably get a lot of loyalty from Portland fans.
extavernmouse - February 16, 2012
Seattle metro area is far from small though, and it's pretty wealthy.
It’s not that I don’t understand your concerns, because I share some of them, but I’m unconvinced it’s a likely outcome.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
I've long suspected that when the Mariners are good again, the national media will treat us like a major market.
We have the entire northwest, and much of the Rocky Mountain states! How is this any different than Boston laying claim to New England?
katal - February 15, 2012
It isn't.
There’s the Canucks in the NHL and the Blazers in the NBA, but aside from that there’s no competition until California to the south and Denver to the east in any of the five leagues.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
If you're including MLS when talking about the five leagues you're leaving off two pretty big names there
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Huh?
Who? The Sounders are the only major team I can think of.
katal - February 15, 2012
Whitecaps have been succesful at times.
Salt Lake would be the other.
Robert - February 15, 2012
No I'm not.
My choice of the word competing was intentional.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
People live in the areas surrounding Boston?
Robert - February 15, 2012
Do they?
You’re the one who can’t stop visiting the place.
katal - February 15, 2012
True Vancouver has a ton of people.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Providence is near and has around 200k metro, you have all of Maine, NH, VT, and some of Connecticut.
That’s not bad.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
Philly also supports Villanova
abender20 - February 15, 2012
LA has pro football and a D1 college team as well
seattlebruin - February 15, 2012
This is a USC joke
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
No, LA Has pro football and a FCS team
abender20 - February 15, 2012
Yeah I realized that after I had already posted
isn’t CSU-Long Beach getting a football team soon?
seattlebruin - February 15, 2012
So then it would have two FCS teams.
abender20 - February 15, 2012
6 bad teams > 4 bad teams.
ATM's34 - February 15, 2012
One of those 4 bad teams has won a trophy and made the playoffs in every season of their history.
Robert - February 15, 2012
True. If only baseball and football had more tropies to be won.
Maybe the Mariners could win the a US Open Cup of baseball?
ATM's34 - February 15, 2012
Yes because two trophies to a season is way too many.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Technically their are five but they all mean different things.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Well the MLS Cup and USOC are the only ones given out by the USSF
The CCL and all the supporter’s trophies are different.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Depends how much you value trophies.
ATM's34 - February 15, 2012
I value them pretty tremendously
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
The Mariners haven't won the wild card since 2000.
katal - February 15, 2012
Royals, Blue Jays, Pirates, Orioles.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
Insert generic rant about terrible public transit system to get to games here
Support as in make it to games occasionally and watch a lot on tv? Sure. Pack the stadiums and arenas evry night? I think the economy and the buses or light rail need to get a lot better for people to be able to do that.
Chris_FB - February 15, 2012
It helps that this stadium is projected to be in the same area as the other three.
Improving on a centralized route is easier.
JY - February 15, 2012
What a great time to own a bar in Pioneer Square or SODO.
At certain times in the year they’ll be a game nearly every night.
katal - February 15, 2012
Marginally helps I guess. I wonder if there will be one nightmare weekend a year of overbooking...
?..bliss for the fans, but hell on traffic, with like 3 sports’ games going on at once. I guess the seasons don’t overlap that way at all unless the M’s are in the playoffs or something.
Chris_FB - February 15, 2012
One of the issues with having 4 teams in the same area,
is that there is some kind of Seattle law that prohibits them from starting a sports event in SODO until the previous one has been over for 4 (i think) hours. So you’ll never have 2 teams playing at once, which will be pretty tough when the NHL, NBA and NFL and MLS overlap. I think the NHL, NBA, MLB and MLS also overlap for part of the year.
Although I’m sure this is something that they will work out and hopefully address tomorrow.
Mind of no mind - February 15, 2012
It's more NHL/NBA
since those two already cannot be occurring at the same time regardless of any municipal law
Matthew - February 16, 2012
Why not
Poochie - February 16, 2012
Because they'd be playing in the same building
Matthew - February 16, 2012
Half-court games would be entertaining!
d0nkey - February 16, 2012
Two floors!
Probably want to put basketball on top.
Aaron Campeau - February 16, 2012
Explain
Poochie - February 16, 2012
Yeah they're not in the process of building a county-spanning light rail system with the hub right by the stadiums.
algorhythm - February 15, 2012
Well, kinda.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
Would be only three blocks from the SoDo station as well
Robert - February 15, 2012
Sure feels like they're not.
I’m impatient.
Chris_FB - February 15, 2012
This is a short sighted concern
If the biggest problem that comes out of this is that there simply isn’t enough transportation to get all the people to the games that want to be there, well that’s a pretty good problem to have*. When you weigh short term congestion/parking concerns against long term development/construction plans to alleviate said concerns, the whole area benefits economically in the end.
*just don’t tell that to the people in rush hour
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
1st Ave is fucked during rush hour anyway.
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
For sure. They really will have to step up public transportation.
But I think creating that need is a good thing overall, despite the inevitable huge pain in the ass over the next few years.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
You can hardly get on a light rail train:
in downtown Portland on the nights of Blazer games. They’re full of people who only get out of their Lexuses (Lexi?) to ride them to see the Blazers
extavernmouse - February 16, 2012
Is there a lot of cross fandom between sports?
I know a ton of people who love the Seahawks but give two shits about the M’s, Sounders and basketball in general, and others with similar thoughts going with the M’s and other sports.
JAH - February 15, 2012
I would consider myself a Sounders fan first
I’m more of a fair-weather fan for all the other teams (although fair-weather is more like being watchable than being good).
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
There's a pretty good amount, sure.
Most people have one favorite, but few people that I’ve met aren’t fans of more than one.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
I'm not sure
I’m a Mariners fan, but I don’t live in Seattle and only lived in the area for a couple years. The Utah Jazz would be the closest NBA team to where I’m from, and I grew up a Bulls fan (lived in Chicago 1989-1998, hard not to root for the Bulls then), but I feel like I’d be most likely to root for whatever NBA team came to Seattle if an NBA team came to Seattle. I’m not much of an NFL or MLS fan, but I like hearing the Seahawks and Sounders are doing well. I haven’t really gotten into the NHL, but I’d like to and a Seattle team might just be what I need to do that.
And that’s all because of the Mariners.
Corco - February 15, 2012
I'm a Mariners fan and Seahawks fan.
I’ve become more of a soccer fan with an exciting team in town, and I hate to admit that it now frustrates me when they are bad instead of being indifferent. Holy shit, I think I like the Sounders in a real emotional, fandom way. Whaaaaaat.
But even with the Sonics 2.0, I wouldn’t give two shits about the NBA. I was a fair weather fan of Sonics 1.0, much more into D1 basketball (so it’s kind of cool that the Huskies might be called “good” now, and hey Seattle U tries real hard).
A hockey game I wouldn’t be massively invested in, but I would happily go to a few games a season because hockey is the single most exciting sport to watch live.
harkening - February 15, 2012
If you want to get into college hoops, try Gonzaga instead of the Huskies
Honestly, while the Dawgs have better SB Nation coverage, you won’t have those random losses to Oregon to lose sleep over.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
I don't need help getting to college hoops.
I have not missed a Duke, Gonzaga or UW game this season. Or last season. Or the season before.
harkening - February 15, 2012
Excellent news.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
I'm a Seattle fan in all aspects
Sonics and Mariners were easily my favorites growing up. I didn’t learn football till I got to middle school, but fell in love with it immediately and I adopted the Seahawks and Huskies. I started following soccer when the Sounders were announced, and became legitimately crazed about the sport by First Kick against NJRB. I’ll root for any sports team if they have “Seattle” on their uniform, they represent our community and bring us pride.
OlMuckyTerraHawk - February 15, 2012
Well, ideally they bring us pride at least.
Aaron Campeau - February 16, 2012
I would love them all.
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
Soccer huh
Poochie - February 15, 2012
I wasn't aware that you were one of the people that called it football.
Robert - February 15, 2012
That controversy is a tempest in a teapot
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Yeah that's it
Poochie - February 15, 2012
There will be so many Bobcats fans!
abender20 - February 15, 2012
Adam Morrison played on that team once!
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
The Bobcats were doomed ever since their owner named them after himself.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Bobcat Goldtwait own a NBA franchise?
sofa_king - February 17, 2012 via mobile
I wonder if it will actually encourage each team to improve its talent level over what it might do otherwise
Say the average person attends six pro games a year. If the Mariners are awesome and all the other teams are terrible, that person might go to six Mariners games and no other games. That would theoretically encourage the other teams to spend money to be good to try to poach games from the Mariners.
Then suddenly there’s two teams that are good, and average sports fan says “hey, maybe I should start going to eight games a year” and so on and so forth.
Corco - February 15, 2012
The NBA would take the majority winter-spring block period in terms of attendance (Jan-April)
And even then there’s so much lag room in the NHL sechdule (October to April) that it would fit pretty well with the MLS, etc.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
I am so excited to have an NHL team to follow.
I love college hockey but have never been able to get into the pros because I have affiliation with any team.
wetzelcoal - February 15, 2012
I hope it has better acoustics than the Key
Poochie - February 15, 2012
Hockeyyyyyyyyyy
I don’t care very much about the basketball, but a local hockey team I would care a lot about
OlSalty - February 15, 2012
Many of us will learn to love it.
I have always known the NHL mentality is right up my ally, I just never had a strong rooting interest. Tonight I start learning hockey players’ names!
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
I hope we get the Sonics back from Oklahoma City
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
Last week I literally dreamt that Stern made OKC sell the Sonics back to Seattle
Woke up and laughed at myself.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
My thoughts on the NBA is I hope the Miami Heat win consecutive championships and force other teams to create superteams which will lead to contraction and hopefully the demise of the NBA
Dewey N - February 15, 2012
Ok but in the meantime SONICS
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
I must confess
In my bitterness I had a similar hope as recently as last year. But now, SONICS!!
That being said, David Stern better never show his face in this town again. If he is stupid enough to ever appear in our new arena I will be highly tempted to throw whatever isn’t nailed down onto the court.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
He'll have to come back to present another one of these
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
They better wheel him out in some popemobile-esque contraption then.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
I'm not getting all excited about this yet.
Even if a deal is “done”. We don’t know what the tax payers might have to pay and what kind of backlash could happen.
Before they even break ground. They will have to go through a State Environmental Policy Act process, which requires that they prove the stadium they can mitigate transportation problems, deal with any potential archaeological problems, and other similar things. Then they have to get all their permits.
InSpokane - February 15, 2012
The fact that it's right next to two other stadiums probably will help it a ton
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Also do you really think they would be hloding a press conference in City Hall if they didn't have it all worked out?
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Yes
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
You can't go through the other stuff with out a lot I mean a lot of paperwork.
Nothing has been filed yet.
InSpokane - February 15, 2012
You are absolutely precious.
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
It will help 2,000 pounds?
Sorry a pet peeve.
InSpokane - February 15, 2012
So you keep your peeve on a leash, feed it, clean up after it, have a name for it?
JY - February 15, 2012
Your pet peeve is the English language?
pixburgher - February 16, 2012
I want us to tell the NBA
To go to hell until they are ready to give us our original team back. I was a season ticket holder until the end too.
bigtrain21 - February 15, 2012 via Android app
anyone remember Clay Bennnet's requested split of public/private financing?
might play a little into considering this a “win” for Seattle, depending on Hansen’s proposal.
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
The fact that it isn't located in fucking Renton would also make it a win for Seattle
Robert - February 15, 2012
oh THIS
how could I forget that brilliant idea?
a 2007 Seattle Times report says Bennett wanted 300 million in taxpayer money for a 500 million pleasuredome.
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
I am stoked and I don't even live anywhere remotely near Seattle anymore.
Is there anyway we could…I dunno…buy back our history from OKC so that we and only we can represent Sonics basketball, past, present, and future?
Omerta - February 15, 2012
We'll get the records and banners back
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
But if we got the Kings wouldn't it be disrespectful to that franchise to override it with the Sonics history?
Corco - February 15, 2012
More disrespectful than stealing the whole team?
All’s fair in love and war, etc.
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
"We will honor the Kings rich history by leaving the name and history in Sacramento for a future team."
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
I guess I favor the old model where teams move and take their histories with them
When the Dodgers moved to Los Angeles, they didn’t deny their Brooklyn years. When the A’s moved to KC and then Oakland, they didn’t deny their history. When the Lakers moved to LA, they didn’t trash their history.
This whole deal where cities wipe franchises clean after poaching them is a new one.
Corco - February 15, 2012
The Cleveland Browns-Baltimore Ravens is a good example.
History of the Browns stayed in Cleveland and the players move on to a different franchise.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
And they often cite "Baltimore" records, regardless of whether the Colts claim them or not
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
The difference there is that when Model moved the team the agreement was that Cleveland would get an expansion team.
I can’t think of another example of a team leaving a city with a firm promise of a brand new team in a few years that could pick up the previous team’s history without any conflict.
KC Mariner - February 15, 2012
Personally I view it in the exact opposite way.
I think it’s insulting for a city to take a team and then pretend as though all its history belongs to them. It doesn’t. (In my opinion, obviously)
My question for you is, to whom do you think it is disrespecting to “deny” the franchise history? To the teams fans? To the former players? To the current players?
Once again, I think regarding the fans it’s the exact opposite. I imagine people in Brooklyn would’ve much preferred if the Dodgers DIDN’T take the history with them. If Los Angeles claims “ownership” of the 1955 World Series, what does that mean to people of Brooklyn? I know for a fact that the people of Baltimore HATE the fact that the Colts still maintain records from their Baltimore days. And I also know that I don’t want OKC claiming any of the old Sonics records.
Johnny Unitas never played for Indianapolis. Eric Dickerson never played for St Louis.
If the Kings move to Seattle and become the Sonics, who is insulted? The fans in Sacramento? I doubt it. People in Rochester? Cincinnati? Kansas City? I really don’t think they care. Do the fans in Sacramento really care about the 1951 championship?
pixburgher - February 16, 2012
I disagree
The Kings are an original team- they’ve changed names and places a couple times, but it’s a franchise with its own storied history. The Kings aren’t really a Sacramento institution- they’ve played all over the place.
If we want to rename them the Sonics- eh, I’m meh on that, but it seems super disrespectful to trash their history in the process.
Corco - February 15, 2012
The correct course of action is to hope that the people of Sacremento can get their shit together then go poach the Hornets or Memphis where people don't give a shit about their teams.
Robert - February 15, 2012
I'd add Charlotte
But their lease situation is such that they’ll be playing to 4,000 a night for the next decade at least
Sportszilla - February 15, 2012
I totally agree with that
Memphis would be great- you could embrace that team as it is because of its NW ties, or wipe it clean. The Hornets don’t have a long, embedded history- if we wanted to wipe that team clean, that’s fine.
Corco - February 15, 2012
And Memphis is already in the Western Conference!
And at this moment is 10 games better than New Orleans. Move OKC to the Southwest Division and Memphis/Seattle to the Northwest Division. OKC and San Antonio/Dallas/Houston could have a rivalry and Seattle/Portland could once again have a great one. I stayed a Sonics fan despite living in Portland for years; only became a Blazers fan when they hired Nate. But it would be tough rooting for Blazers if the new team was named the Sonics…
extavernmouse - February 16, 2012
It seems like everything I've read makes it sound that Stern really wants to keep a team in New Orleans.
Which doesn’t make any sense. If there was a billionaire out there willing to buy the team and keep it there you’d think that would have happened by now.
KC Mariner - February 15, 2012
It was NOLA's breached levees that put this whole wretched scenario in motion
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Negative publicity avoidance
’Nawlins still has plenty of sympathy from the national populace. They are a unique case.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
They'll have an asterisk noting the rich history of the Rochester/Cincinnati/Omaha/Kansas City/Sacramento Royals/Kings
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
I know I wuldn't have been happy if Bennett took the name and they were the OKC Sonics.
I am sure there would be many Kings fans that would be pissed if we became the Seattle Kings. Leave the history in Sacto where it belongs, this city has its own rich basketball history.
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
*wouldn't
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
The Kings are one of the oldest NBA teams that happened to move around a lot.
If Seattle took them, changing the name would be a pretty big low-blow.
Benne - February 15, 2012
Does Royals to Kings not count?
Mariner John - February 15, 2012
That's not even close to the same as taking an established name and replacing it with a different established name.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Kings are already stolen. We' have to get KC's banners.
JAH - February 15, 2012
We can give the Kings history to the Thunder
brspiegel - February 15, 2012
But they're not the Kings
If we gave the whole franchise to OKC and took the Sonics back, that would be awesome, but that’s not going to happen
Corco - February 15, 2012
If the Sonics come back they better use their bitchin 1995-2001 uniforms
Robert - February 15, 2012
Those were amazing.
Patrick Stites - February 15, 2012
What about the red ones?
OceanBird - February 15, 2012
Especially the red ones.
Patrick Stites - February 15, 2012
You all have terrible taste
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
Maybe we're getting another baseball team!
Punkhazard - February 15, 2012
I live in California
Grew up in Washington, Mariners/Sonics/Seahawks fan. I tried to get into the Warriors and Sharks, but I couldn’t. I’m super excited for the prospect of an NBA and NHL team in Seattle though, and think I could EASILY get into those teams.
OceanBird - February 15, 2012
SUCK ON THIS CLAY!
FUCK YEAH!
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
Have you seen his team?
seattlebruin - February 15, 2012
Have you seen his net worth since the Real Estate implosion?
Matthew - February 15, 2012
I'll be happy when he's homeless and begging for change in Ballard.
Kenneth Arthur - February 15, 2012
Guys like him never seem to go homeless
they just become less rich and whine about it the whole time like they suddenly have some huge burden to bear. He’ll probably have to cut back on the unicorn tear smoothies though.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
Homeless? Maybe not
But they can definitely come crashing down to earth. I know one ex-millionaire who lives on social security in a trailer park due to a series of very very bad investments (mostly instigated by his crazy wife).
Tophawkeye - February 15, 2012
Fuck that.
I don’t want him homeless in a city with mild weather and resources for the homeless and shit. Let him get his ass kicked by rednecks and sweat his fat ass off in the OKC sun.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
No, but it's gotta be ever so much easier to sleep when the pro sports team you own is really fucking good
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Nope
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
a proper interview is now up on the main Seattle Times article
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
.
Link
Alex Kelly - February 15, 2012
always an art to this
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
ok, not a lot of details, which is to be expected I guess if they're briefing tomorrow
mostly a “getting to know you” background interview
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
Please capitalize the beginning of your sentences.
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
Whoops, sorry.
Will Kier - February 15, 2012
No problem.
<3
Eyebrows - February 15, 2012
I like this guy.
JY - February 15, 2012
I just hope he becomes a hockey fan.
JAH - February 15, 2012
This Blazers fan is very happy for Seattle
bring back the I-5 rivalry!
David Piper - February 15, 2012
This makes it so much betterer
Mitch Levy reporting that there will be zero cost to taxpayers.
Papa Chelmon - February 15, 2012
Depnds on how you define "taxpayer" based on every report I've seen
Are you a taxpayer if you pay a tax on your ticket to the game? I would say so.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Eh, it's kinda more like Seattle would be an extremely senior investor.
Demanding a cut from the gates. So kinda like the mob.
stredarts - February 15, 2012
The point is you aren't paying for the arena if you never go to it or do things near it/around it.
algorhythm - February 15, 2012
It depends how Seattle's initial investment is structured.
Sounds like it would be a public bond payed off by ticket revenue, ultimately backed by public money. So taxpayers would be on the hook.
Not a tax, but public money, right?
stredarts - February 15, 2012
Public money voluntarily given to the stadium construction
there’s a bigggggg difference
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Big difference between what?
There is a big difference between taxing other people in the county versus taking a percentage of the ticket revenue. But that tax revenue is only there to pay the taxpayers back for our initial loan. That loan represents a risk for all Seattle taxpayers in the case that the arena never makes money. That is why the city and county will have to carefully vet this. For someone to say there is zero cost to the taxpayer is just wrong.
stredarts - February 16, 2012
Not to say this doesn't sound like as good an opportunity to get a sports arena built.
Just that people shouldn’t be missled into thinking this is a risk free investment.
stredarts - February 16, 2012
I would say that's a pretty esoteric definition of "taxpayer"
Matthew - February 15, 2012
By that definition, I'm a Seattle taxpayer living out of state
lemonverbena - February 15, 2012
You'll summon him
Poochie - February 16, 2012
The early impression I'm getting
is that the burden of the extra cost will be spread out among ticket buyers. Which I would have no problem with.
C Dubya - February 15, 2012
And boom goes the dynamite.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Some nuggets from his Twitter for the lazy
Mitch in the Morning’s Twitter
algorhythm - February 15, 2012
Well that does cost the taxpayer $200 million then
Tax-increment financing still costs the taxpayer- the taxpayer has to upgrade the infrastructure around the stadium and is outed the revenue it would be getting from that land anyway.
Still worth it for this though, probably.
Corco - February 15, 2012
I have a suspicion that "ZERO cost to the taxpayer" tweet is going to be awfully hard to defend tomorrow
Will Kier - February 16, 2012
By "zero cost to the taxpayer" I think it's pretty clear what they mean
Previous stadium construction and renovations were paid for with a “stadium tax” that was tacked on to the sales tax in parts of King County, right? This would be a tax on ticket purchases ala a Tickmaster surchage. Use the facility, pay a little more for the right to use the facility. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
Yeah they're referring to the general public when they say zero cost
Zero cost to people who don’t use or benefit from the stadium. Because that was the issue that killed previous deals. Doesn’t mean that none of the funding is coming from taxes, just that those taxes come from people using the stadium in the form of higher ticket prices.
That’s the important difference here when compared to different deals that is likely to make it more pallatable to the public.
OlSalty - February 16, 2012
But the lost potential revenue still costs taxpayers that don't use the stadium- plus the city is still on the hook for associated infrastructure improvements
I still think it’s a good deal, but it’s definitely not free to the taxpayers of the city or even all that cheap. The city still has to front the money for the stadium, and then it pays back the city in the form of the increase in property tax that occurs when the land value of the arena site goes up. That’s a substantial amount of lost opportunity cost.
Corco - February 16, 2012
Well sure, but a couple of things
First, the proposal as it is being reported right now is – if I’m reading it right – looking at less than 50% funding from public funds. This is well below the public funding levels for Safeco (reportedly 340 of 517 million mostly from rental car tax and restaurant tax) and Qwest/CenturyLink (300 of 430 million).
Second, obviously the assumption is that landowners will profit from increased property values in the long run (the Atlantic Rail Yards/Nets Arena is a good analog – right down the street from where I live and the real estate people have made an absolute killing since the project started), and that local business will profit from the increased business being done pre and post game – which in turn further benefits the city in the form of increased tax collection. So while there certainly is a lost opportunity cost in terms of initial outlay, it’s hopefully not a zero sum game.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
Well right, and that second part is what makes it a good deal
Now, there have been deals like this in the past where entire districts are warded off- if the new arena is built in SoDo, and property values go up, then 100% of property tax paid as a result of increased property value for everything within a half mile of the stadium or something goes to pay off the stadium, and that’s a bad deal, but if it’s just the stadium paying for itself and the city gets to reap the rest of it, that’s well worth the infrastructure costs.
Corco - February 16, 2012
What you don't want is a deal where everything near the stadium is contributing to the local tax base at 2012 levels in 2040 while the gains are still paying off the stadium
If it’s just the stadium paying for itself…eh, that’s not amazing per se, but it’s definitely more than palatable with the associated benefits.
Corco - February 16, 2012
I completely agree with this.
And not that bad deals haven’t been done before, but that seems like a pretty one-sided arrangement. I’d certainly HOPE the city wouldn’t go towards something that would require that kind of commitment.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
I wouldn't want to speculate on details for something that hasn't even remotely happened yet
But you’re right, that would be a horrible deal. There’s evidence that since Safeco (which I personally think was a horrible deal for the city) that Seattle has gotten much smarter. The Qwest Field deal actually had a hard cap on public contribution at 300 million. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar provision here.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
And I do realize that you're not arguing against the deal or anything.
But it’s very interesting stuff to think about.
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
The cool thing to think about is that Seattle will have the original Winnipeg Jets.
It’s too bad that there is a new Winnipeg Jets, because Seattle Jets would’ve been fitting.
Fin - February 15, 2012
The first triple-header day in April will be fun.
I think I’d want to go baseball then hockey then soccer.
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Yeah, seems about right.
Of course if the baseball game was last you could sleep off the booze from the first two.
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
That's a pretty ballsy thing to say on a baseball blog...
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
It's the Mariners blog.
EequalsMc2 - February 15, 2012
Fair point
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
I actively hate the Mariners
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
I've listened to too much Nos Audietis
I actually read this comment in your voice.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
Sleeping would be the only thing you could do
since they would deny you alcohol by then.
Fin - February 15, 2012
Or get kicked out for raising your voice.
Robert - February 15, 2012
Well if you're doing the first two right you wouldn't have a voice left to raise
Aaron Campeau - February 15, 2012
My goal is to get red carded at Safeco after a Sounders game again this year
Robert - February 15, 2012
That sure is a lofty goal,
to act like a dickbag to prove some “point” to nobody
Matthew - February 15, 2012
You don't even have to act like a dickbag to get red carded at Safeco.
Robert - February 15, 2012
No, but that doesn't change that hoping to get one is dickbagish
Matthew - February 15, 2012
Touche
Robert - February 16, 2012
God I want to go to an NHL game so bad.
s0merand0mdude - February 15, 2012
It would be like going from Pitchers & Catchers reporting to a pennant race to the World Series all in one afternoon!
Robert - February 15, 2012
It's appropriate that the Field Gulls thread on the same subject devolved into an argument on how bad Reddit is.
Benne - February 15, 2012
You could have left out the "redd" part of your sentence
Robert - February 15, 2012
Optimism among Seattle fans!
Come on guys, let’s be real, bad luck, sports, and Seattle just go together.
Kings stay in Sacramento
Memphis goes to Kansas City
Hornets go to Anaheim
Coyotes stay in Arizona
etc, etc, etc, joking of course
OceanBird - February 15, 2012
Optimisim:
Kings stay in Sacramento
Memphis goes to Vancouver
Hornets stay in New Orleans
MILWAUKEE goes to Seattle
Coyotes go to Seattle
Carolina goes to Portland
THREE-SPORT CASCADIA RIVALRY!
Agent_J - February 15, 2012
Oregon Optimist:
Rays go to Portland. Opening Day Matt Moore vs. Felix in the new Rose Garden Ballpark!
extavernmouse - February 16, 2012
And then. Jacksonville to Portland, Astros and expansion football to Vancouver?
As long as we’re going crazy…
Agent_J - February 16, 2012
I'd be pumped to see a hockey franchise in Seattle.
As for the NBA? It’s such a shitty league right now that taking the Kings from Sacramento and transplanting them in Seattle would in no way sway me back to being a fan. Give us our original Sonics back and we’ll talk, NBA.
JLProck - February 16, 2012
But Jeremy Lin!
ThomasG - February 16, 2012
Looks like the Next Harold Minor.
JLProck - February 16, 2012
Trust me, I've tried with the NBA.
I thought maybe Blake Griffin would possibly bring me back. Then I realized he and Chris Paul are just Thunder and Lightning Lite.
JLProck - February 16, 2012
Blake Griffin is the most obnoxious basketball player of all time.
joof - February 16, 2012
Clearly you haven't watched Tyreke Evans play yet
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Or every player on the 2009 Portland team
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Wait, what?
I never had the overwhelming urge to punch Brandon Roy in the face every time I saw him like I do Blake Griffin.
joof - February 16, 2012
No no, not the Trail Blazers
the Pilots
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
2009... Uhh... Crap. Uhhh...
Luke Sikma?
joof - February 16, 2012
Wait, the 2009 Pilots the team that beat UCLA, wasn't it?
Ahhhh yeah.
joof - February 16, 2012
I've had just about enough of this Tyreke Evans character assassination
Aaron Campeau - February 16, 2012
Should I discuss Derrick Rose's SAT scores instead?
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Huh, when did Tyreke Evans actually get pretty good?
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
He won rookie of the year.
Meaningful!
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
I don't think the score was really the problem
Aaron Campeau - February 16, 2012
Shall I discuss the score Derrick Rose got when he took the SAT for himself?
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Why would I give a damn about that?
Aaron Campeau - February 17, 2012
Marcus Cousins and Tyreke Evans doesn't interest me in the slightest
I’d go bonkers for KD back in Seattle though.
MT Olson - February 16, 2012
DeMarcus
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Whoops yeah.
MT Olson - February 16, 2012
Kirk Cousins?
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
Two time AFC Championship game loser, Jim?
Robert - February 16, 2012
I actually like the idea of getting as terrible a roster as possible.
Which would easily be the Bobcats. Then a #1 pick, as long as they rig it that way.
Kenneth Arthur - February 16, 2012
I would be okay with a start from scratch type of thing
I’d really hate getting other teams stars, that kinda feels wrong to me.
MT Olson - February 16, 2012
Well good thing we're getting the Bobcats then
no stars to worry about
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
I think the Blazers already got the Bobcats, and it's awful.
joof - February 16, 2012
So you'll only follow the team when they're good basically?
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
No
MT Olson - February 16, 2012
To be fair I have like zero interest in watching Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
Are we going to be allowed to hang our 1917 Stanley Cup Champions banner?
Robert - February 16, 2012
I think there was a banner in the Coliseum...
And yes, I realize how badly I dated myself there, but I don’t remember whether the banner was up in the Key
Kingdomer - February 16, 2012
Whatever arena they build, it will never be as good as Spokane Arena
Poochie - February 16, 2012
Will surely be better than the kennel though
Robert - February 16, 2012
I wouldn't know
Poochie - February 16, 2012
Wait a second do we get to name the arena too?
that sounds awesome
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
As long as it's thematically consistent with the rest of the stadiums I approve.
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
So sponsored by a bank, cable company or insurance company?
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
Heist related.
I thought this was common knowledge?
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
The qwest for the safe that ended up in the clink?
What comes next?
s0merand0mdude - February 16, 2012
I didn't realize Qwest or Century Link were heist related.
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
CLink.
joof - February 16, 2012
I do not call it that.
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
Are you one of those "We shouldn't disrespect the company with that name" people?
OR do you just think it’s lame? I’ll support you in only the latter.
s0merand0mdude - February 16, 2012
He just brings a champagne glass and spoon with him everywhere he might need to talk about the stadium name
seattlebruin - February 16, 2012
The second one. Though I still usually just call it Qwest because I'm still in that habit.
Mariner John - February 16, 2012
As a standalone stadium nickname, "Clink" is pretty bad,
but Safe/Key/Clink is reasonably smirk worthy in combination.
Drew_D - February 16, 2012
All the more reason why you are my favorite.
Robert - February 16, 2012
Since most people in Seattle are hockey neophytes,
is there any chance that the new NHL owndership might look to the Sounders as an example of how to introduce a new pro sport to a city, rather than other sports?
I’m really looking forward to seeing my first live NHL game, but I really hope they can do it more like the Sounders, rather than having YMCA and C&C Music factory blaring during time outs, and the old “da da da DA da DA! CHARGE!” crap.
Mind of no mind - February 16, 2012
Soccer culture is different from baseball culture, so the Sounders introduction followed a model provided by some world class soccer franchises with the fan involvement, and the supporters groups are likewise unique to the sport.
The Sounders also benefited from a local pro soccer history in the USL, which bore with it historical continuity with the NASL.
The Seattle areas hockey culture doesn’t quite have the hold that soccer does, and the models provided by franchises don’t exactly demand high fan involvement with the operation of the club (though based on Vancouver riots, the club might be able to coop hooliganism from the Sounders*). Moreover, the WHL – a junior league – has teams in both Everett and Seattle (well, Kent) in the Silvertips and Thunderbirds. So there’s obviously a divided fan base with local hockey, though the level of play in the WHL is mildly embarrassing. I’m not sure how big a draw a Seattle NHL franchise would be because of the local hockey scene set up as is, though they could probably outdraw Phoenix.
You won’t hear “YMCA” or the “CHARGE!” thing coming at a hockey game, though. I have never been a vocal fan at live events, but it’s hard not to get caught up in hockey.
*Sounders supporters groups are hardly hooligans, but man B.C. takes its hockey seriously.
harkening - February 16, 2012
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