I was getting prepared to start writing this, and then Matthew told me from the next room over that the Sounders just made a huge and hugely controversial trade. So it's not like this post is going to be read by anybody anyway, since Seattle-area sports fans are all reading about that. But I'm still going to get this out there, because my whole life people have told me that I shouldn't bottle things up, since that just leads to an explosion. You shouldn't ever bottle anything up. Except so, so many delicious things.
A link was passed along to me today, to a post on a blog called Plunk Everyone. Within the post, the author went team-by-team and identified the ten all-time players (each) who had the highest winning percentages when they were in the starting lineup. The example given in the intro is that the Diamondbacks won 58 percent of their games when Tony Womack was in the starting lineup. That example immediately tells you that what follows is more interesting than meaningful, but there's room for things to be both interesting and meaningful. I think the Mariners' list is both interesting and meaningful. The Mariners' list:
I definitely wasn't expecting to see Richie Sexson pop up, but then it's not like 47.2% is anything to be proud of. More significant is the guy at the very top. The Mariners have had a higher winning percentage with Mike Cameron in the starting lineup than they have with any other player in the starting lineup in franchise history (given a 500-start minimum).
Setting the start minimum at 500 admittedly keeps the player pool pretty small. And a huge part of Cameron's record is that he was a Mariner at the right time, since those 2000-2003 teams were something else. But then Cameron was also a huge part of those 2000-2003 teams. According to Baseball-Reference, his four-year WAR was 19.0. According to FanGraphs, his four-year WAR was 19.7. Players with similar WARs over the same span of time: Jorge Posada, Larry Walker, Bret Boone and Shawn Green. I am very much aware of the limitations of WAR, but this is just to illustrate the point that Mike Cameron was fuckin awesome.
And then his contract ran out and the Mariners didn't offer him arbitration. He was 30 years old, coming off a season in which he was worth about five wins at a $7 million salary, and the Mariners didn't offer him arbitration. They just let him go. They signed Raul Ibanez for three years, and they just let Cammy go, without so much as a compensation pick. You can try to read the explanation here, but I should warn you that it's very stupid. We had a good idea that it was stupid at the time. We have a better idea that it was stupid now. So stupid. The Mike Cameron situation isn't why the Mariners went from being very good to very bad, but it was a contributor.
Mike Cameron: awesome Seattle Mariner, and current owner of a Seattle Mariners franchise record. It's a shame the way it wound up, but at least we got to have Cammy for a while, and at least for his sake he got out before shit turned rotten. I suppose it's all in how you look at it.
2 recs | 71 comments
That 1-9 is the Mariners dream team
d0nkey - February 17, 2012
Edgar at third!
Coach Owens - February 17, 2012
And Bone DH'ing because who wants him in the field when you have Griffey, Cameron and Ichiro! to patrol Safeco.
harkening - February 17, 2012
Well that's just dumb
Matthew - February 17, 2012
If Edgar is at third, who would you play at DH assuming that 1-9 is the dream team?
harkening - February 17, 2012
My dream team would probably have Beltre at third and no Bone to be honest, and I'm a pretty big Buhner fan.
I was more following to d0nkey and Coach.
harkening - February 17, 2012
Buhner?
Unless you would play him at second.
Coach Owens - February 17, 2012
Very good, Coach.
I was asking Matthew because he just said “well that’s just dumb.”
harkening - February 17, 2012
Oh, Bone. Not Boone.
Man, just call him Buhner.
Matthew - February 17, 2012
Ah.
harkening - February 17, 2012
Yep, I misread that as well.
My apologies.
Coach Owens - February 17, 2012
Lately I've heard that "bottling things up" is actually better for you
because something about constantly “letting off steam” makes you more prone to it in the first place, etc etc
Point being: pay attention to science. Not the other shit. The other shit is stupid (looking at you, natural child birth)
Matthew - February 17, 2012
(No! Wait. Don't look!)
It’s grosssssssssssssssssssssss
Matthew - February 17, 2012
Got to love my hippyish parents.
My 3 brothers and I were all home births which might explain a lot. The midwife was 3 hours late for my youngest brothers birth.
seattle_since_81 - February 17, 2012
And the afterbirth?
Was it ritually consumed?
ignacio - February 17, 2012
I think people just misunderstand what the benefit of emotional expression is
I think it doesn’t work like a pressure valve where you’re releasing excess emotions that then go away once expressed. As you said it’s been suggested doing that too much can actually strengthen emotional reactions rather than relieve them. But there’s still a benefit to expression and that benefit is feedback you get from communicating what’s bothering you instead of keeping it in your own head where your reactions can grow out of control through a lack of information that might help one process an insecurity or issue better or help someone get a better perspective on the way they’re feeling that they can’t get without outside feedback on it.
So it’s not really that bottling up is better for you necessarily, that’s bad too if taken to an extreme. Just don’t “blow off steam” unless you have something specific that you need addressed with others. Doing it just for the sake of doing it doesn’t improve things.
OlSalty - February 18, 2012
With Edgar at 51.7 this means from 1987 to 2004
We had not failure!
sofa_king - February 17, 2012 via mobile
I honestly can't tell if the second sentence is sarcasm or not.
Vegasexpat - February 17, 2012
Well there's 325 comments on the Sounder at Heart article about the trade
and there’s 15 on this article…
s0merand0mdude - February 17, 2012
Cameron was awesome.
But the team had a 60.7% winning percentage in the years he played, 2000-2003. Mike played in 610 games, missed 37. To get the team to about 61.3% adds 4 wins over 4 years. A lot of good players on the 2000-2003 teams, including Cameron.
PackBob - February 17, 2012
I wonder if Griffey would be higher or lower if you take out Griffey 2.0.
wetzelcoal - February 17, 2012
It would probably be a little bit higher, but not a huge swing.
The Mariners didn’t have a winning season until 1991 which was his 3rd season in the pros. He was on some not very good teams. 1997 was the team that had the most wins, 90, on all the teams he played on.
seattle_since_81 - February 17, 2012
I would think it's lower.
We were good for Griffey 2.1, and he didn’t play much as Griffey 2.2.
BigR - February 19, 2012
I sent this article to Cammy on Twitter,
and this was his response:
seattle_since_81 - February 17, 2012
I love that guy.
Smegmalicious - February 17, 2012
Yup. It's pretty rare for a guy to take over a franchise legend, lead-pipe cinch Hall-of-Famer
and not get booed out of town, let alone be nearly as popular, but Cameron pulled it off.
Aly Edge - February 18, 2012
Cammy has a twitter account?
Because I’m unable to find it by searching his name on there.
Cascadian Man - February 18, 2012
darkman_44
Poochie - February 18, 2012
@_darkman44
seattle_since_81 - February 18, 2012
I wonder if he had already made his decision to retire when he responded.
Craptastic-J - February 19, 2012
Man, I just read Bavasi's explanation about letting him go
I didn’t think it was possible to want to stab him in the face more than I already did. I was wrong.
Smegmalicious - February 17, 2012
Bavasi had to have been looking at RBI's and batting average when he made decisions
Sometimes I want know and sometimes I don’t care anymore.
Kermit. - February 18, 2012
2001 was weird, it still doesn't feel real.
It’s just sad it ended the way it did.
Eric Wedge's Mustache - February 18, 2012
Someday the Mariners are going to have their World Series trophy, and their 116 win season.
I’d rather have that than 2 World Series trophies. But yeah, right now the way that season ended still stings.
Double06 - February 18, 2012
The only sports moment that was more soul crushing for me was Super Bowl XL.
And that’s only because it took place over a few hours instead of a few days.
quacker27 - February 18, 2012
And I still believe that 9/11 was part of a giant conspiracy to keep the Mariners from winning the World Series.
Osamaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
quacker27 - February 18, 2012
That doesn't make sense considering the Diamondbacks won the WS that year.
Eric Wedge's Mustache - February 18, 2012
If the Diamondbacks won the WS that means by definition the Mariners did not
pdb - February 18, 2012
Arizona is full of sand. So is the Middle East. Spooky, huh?
joof - February 18, 2012
I didn't say I believed that the conspiracy was to have NY win the World Series.
quacker27 - February 18, 2012
I still get nightmares about Super Bowl XL.
Literally.
Eric Wedge's Mustache - February 18, 2012
May 2, 2002
Cammy hits four home runs against the White Sox and the M’s win 15-4. Great memory of a great Mariner.
116in01 - February 18, 2012
The first two were back-to-backs with Boone
Hit in consecutive innings, if I recall correctly, which was some kind of record.
Aly Edge - February 18, 2012
Hit in the same inning.
And Cameron just missed hitting his 5th homer when he flew out to the warning track. Said he would have hit the 5th home run if he swung at the first pitch (straight fastball down the middle).
Wilder. - February 18, 2012
The thought of the M's hitting 6 home runs in one game is a little depressing now.
wetzelcoal - February 18, 2012
7 home runs
Jeff Cirillo of all people hit the other
Aly Edge - February 18, 2012
I took the M's 11 games this year to reach 6 homers as a team.
quacker27 - February 18, 2012
As I am only a casual Sounders fan,
can somebody explain just how bad this trade is in relative baseball terms? I.e., is this their version of the Slocumb trade or something? The commenters at Sounder At Heart are saying this is Bavasi-esque.
Double06 - February 18, 2012
As a fairly fervent Timbers fan this trade was a big, big win!
but dispassionately, I don’t actually get the rationale behind it. Put in baseball terms, the Sounders just traded two young guys on the verge of sticking with the big club and being very solid contributors for several years for a once-solid utility infielder who has bounced around a bit and who has played his last three years in Japan.
pdb - February 18, 2012
Ah, so, Vidro.
Double06 - February 18, 2012
Probably not quite that bad but you're on the right track
pdb - February 18, 2012
All I can say is this is amusing
if only because I am 100% convinced eddie johnson has no idea what offsides is.
PShwa - February 18, 2012
It's slightly worse than Snelling and Fruto for Vidro
Eddie Johnson is worse than Vidro and the parts the Sounders gave up are better than the Snelling/Fruto package
Graham MacAree - February 18, 2012
So the chances are good it will look even worse than the Vidro trade historically, right?
Because Vidro wasn’t much as a Mariner, but what did Snelling or Fruto ever amount to either?
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
What Snelling and Fruto amounted to is completely beside the point.
abender20 - February 19, 2012
I don't bring it up to absolve Bavasi
Far from it. Frankly the same thing can be said about the Bedard trade (yeah, Adam Jones is pretty good, but Chris Tillman has sucked as a big leaguer, Kam Mickolio has bounced around the league, and the other two are ours again). I wasn’t an internet-fan at the time of the Vidro trade, so I can’t say I remember everyone hating it or what Snelling and Fruto’s prospect hype was, but it seems like the two trades are viewed similarly. Boneheaded moves. Sort of like the ultimate Mariner bad trade, the Slocumb trade. Are you saying that even historically, all three trades should be considered equally bad? I get the whole “you can only evaluate a trade based on what you know at the time” thing, and that’s why it doesn’t absolve Bavasi, The Red Sox were cash-poor in 1919, does that mean selling Babe Ruth was a good transaction for them?
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
The process that led to the completion of the trade was the problem, not the result
cwel87 - February 19, 2012
Bill Bavasi was just SO bad at his job.
cwel87 - February 18, 2012
And I know everyone says how nice Bavasi is in person, but this quote just pisses me off to no end:
Really? The club had a ‘special relationship’ with Pat fucking Borders, but not Mike Cameron? Compared to Pat fucking Borders, I’d call the Mariners’ relationship with Mark McLemore ‘special’.
Fuck off, Bavasi.
cwel87 - February 18, 2012
I always got a kick out of Pat Borders pinch-running for Edgar
He probably only did it like three or four times, but the concept of a ~40 year old catcher being called on as a pinch-runner was just high hilarity.
Actually to this day I’m not sure I understand why it was done….
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
That comment really pissed me off too
Nothing against Pat Fucking Borders, but c’mon man. C’mon.
HititHere - February 20, 2012
.
msb - February 18, 2012
Is Cameron still a free agent?
I mean, we were talking about Jamie Moyer…
extavernmouse - February 18, 2012
Minor league deal/camp invite with the Nationals
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
And word this AM that he is retiring
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/18/do-not-post-until-notified-mike-cameron-retire-aft/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS
msb - February 19, 2012
Hopefully this means he can come be one of the Special Guests thiss season.
msb - February 19, 2012
Definitely
Would Mariners Hall of Fame be too big a stretch?
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
Probably
but there should be a Mariners Hall Of Awesome, and he’d be in it.
pdb - February 19, 2012
Definitely in the Mariners Hall Of Love That Guy.
msb - February 19, 2012
I was at the game when he hit the walk-off against Boston in the19th or 20th inning.
Off of Jeff fucking Fassero. I was sitting on the metal bleachers and god my ass was sore. Thank you Cammy for making my ass feel better.
BigR - February 19, 2012
19th inning
I listened to that game on the radio. Dave was good company that long night :)
Aly Edge - February 19, 2012
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