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More On Ichiro And The Big Honkin' Move

Earlier, I was a few minutes late meeting somebody, and I explained to him that it was because there was big Mariners news I wanted to write about before getting in the car. It felt weird to refer to this stuff as "big Mariners news" since we and you have come to understand that lineup construction doesn't make that much of a difference, but there's no denying that the Mariners moving Ichiro down to #3 feels big. It at least feels not small. Ichiro has been the Mariners' leadoff hitter for as long as I've been able to watch them on a daily basis. He was the Mariners' leadoff hitter for years before that, too.

This is a change in Ichiro's identity, and this is a change in the Mariners' identity. Ichiro is no longer the Mariners' leadoff hitter and right fielder. Now Ichiro is the Mariners' right fielder. What he is beyond that, we'll see, but the #3 slot doesn't have a neat word attached to it like "leadoff" or "cleanup".

The first thing that probably crossed most of our minds when we learned about the switch was, is Ichiro going to hit for power now? Is he going to change his approach to correspond to the drop in the order? I know I have a strong desire to see the Ichiro mythology put to the test. I know I also have a strong desire to see the Ichiro mythology not put to the test, so, via Greg Johns:

"The situation of hitting third won't change my approach in my hitting style," Ichiro said. "It'll only change the situation with runners on base."

That disappoints me, and it doesn't. I'd like to see of what Ichiro is capable, but I'd also like for some things to be left to the imagination. It's not like Ichiro's regular approach hasn't allowed him to be a productive player before.

But if you're thirsting for change, Ichiro has made one adjustment. He's spent the entire offseason working on a new stance. It's a little more than just a new stance, yet a little less than a whole new swing. After the jump, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Star-divide

Here's Ichiro from last year:

Ichiro2011

And here's Ichiro now, courtesy of Larry Stone:

Ichiro2012

You'll notice that Ichiro's feet are now wider apart. You'll notice that he doesn't lift his right leg. There's less movement now than there used to be. I can't tell you what this is going to mean. I'm a lot more comfortable with pitching mechanics than with hitting mechanics. Maybe this won't mean anything at all. Lots of things are possible. But, Ichiro finished last season thinking he needed to make an adjustment, and he elected to make this adjustment. As a rule of thumb, I trust that Ichiro knows what's best for Ichiro.

So, batting third. When you hear that Ichiro'll be batting third, you figure that he'll be batting with men on base more often. Last year, the bases were empty for 66 percent of his plate appearances. For his career, he comes in at 65 percent. Last year, Dustin Ackley spent most of his time batting third. The bases were empty for 59 percent of his plate appearances. Ichiro will most definitely bat more often with runners on base, if only because he'll no longer be guaranteed one plate appearance with the bases empty each game. But the difference won't be huge. The percentages in this paragraph are influenced by the Mariners' offenses, but they're reasonably representative.

One notes that Ichiro is a career .327 hitter with men on. That's quite good! One also notes that Ichiro is a career .325 hitter with no men on. And his respective isolated sluggings are .085 and .101. We don't have great evidence to suggest that Ichiro ups his game in run-scoring situations. Nor do we have great evidence to suggest that he does the opposite. He's just been Ichiro.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I had a thought, but I lost it. I wish one of you would find it. Realistically, as much as some might prefer that Ichiro try to change his approach, being the leadoff batter or not being the leadoff batter only matters in the first inning. After that, it all gets jumbled. So why should Ichiro try to overhaul his game? He's still on the same team, in the same stadium, in the same lineup. He's just moving in the lineup two spots. It sounds so insignificant. The difference between the #1 slot and the #3 slot for the Mariners last year was 23 plate appearances.

It's not insignificant, because, mentally, this is weird. Ichiro's had a role for so long. That role is changing. But it's not changing by a ton. I'm less interested in how Ichiro adjusts to batting third, and more interested in how Ichiro adjusts to his new swing mechanics. I guess the two are inextricably tied.

Ichiro batting third. Big news, small news, and all types of news in between. As for Figgins? He sure as hell hasn't done well leading off innings the last couple years. He did fine batting second for the Angels before coming over. But, whatever, one more shot. Maybe it'll work. Maybe it'll get those right neurons firing. I'm willing to give it time, so long as the team doesn't give it too much time. This had better be Figgins' last chance.

5 recs  |  61 comments

Comments

I found Larry Stone's mention

that Ichiro batted third more often than first while in Japan to be soothing

That sent me on a search for old Ichiro video clips

it’s weird to be reminded that he was young once.

I think that was the thought that I lost!
Thank you Matthew!
This is helps my theory that you two are really the same person.
This would make the podcasts less an enjoyable experience and more a worrisome psychological phenomenon.
Hey, as long as we get a good time, isn't that what matters?

But really though people, has anyone even seen Jeff and Matthew in the same place at the same time???

In my dreams, yes.
Many times, yes

Sorry, to burst your bubble.

I actually met both of them at the event late in the 2010 season.

Although Matthew was suspiciously quiet… Hmm…

Ichiro adopted the not picking up the front leg Pujols swing!

DINGERS!

Jeff, thanks for the great post.

I don’t think I’m not alone in saying I want Ichiro to succeed this year regardless of where he bats. Extend the thought to Figgins and the rest of the team for that matter.

I don't think I'm not alone -- what?

I don’t think I’m not an idiot. Ugh.

The first thing I thought when I saw Ichiro's new batting stance was, "that's different."

The second thing I thought was, “Little Bautista!”

Brain, you sure know how to get my hopes up. But I suppose it is true that Bautista’s career high in homers over a full season before 2010 was 16. Ichiro’s career high in home runs for a full season is 15. Jose Bautista hit 54 home runs in 2010. So, I guess 50 home runs from Ichiro isn’t much of a stretch.

DO IT, Ichiro.

I am really excited.

For new look Ichiro and the whole team as well. April can’t come soon enough.

It also looks like...

With his new swing he is staying and following through more. He keeps both of his hands on the bat all the way through his swing. It also looks like his stance is heaver. I believe that he will hit for more power. At least it looks like that way to me.

I think a lot depends on the approach.

Ichiro’s hitting approach has always been to make contact even on pitches well outside of the strike zone. And a lot of that contact has resulted in infield hits, which might result in fielder’s choices with Ichiro batting 3rd. I’ll be happy if Ichiro adjusts his approach to lay off those pitches and either walk more or drive the ball more. But it’s an approach that Ichiro has had for about 20 years and I’m skeptical that he can change it over one off-season. The new stance is certainly encouraging, though.

The new swing looks more sturdy.

Shouldn’t that translate to more powerful? I’m excited. Ichiro’s awesome.

I'd think not moving your front foot would sap some power from the swing though because you can't push off of your back leg as much

But maybe he’ll make more solid contact this way by having a more complete follow through. My theory is it could lead to more/better line drives compared to the more ground ball strategy he’s been employing, while not really generating homerun power.

Lifting your front foot doesn't equate power...

…it’s more of a timing mechanism (i.e. – Chipper Jones’ foot tap)…to be honest, balance is more important to hitting than anything and I think his new stance looks more balanced which should equate to more solid contact…solid contact equates to more balls being hit in the sweet spot of the bat…maybe equates to more power…

Although Ichiro seems like he could hit balls while doing the Krane Kick from Karate Kick so my balance theory means nothing…

It's all about hip rotation and weight transfer, not movement.

Especially for a hitter of Ichiro’s size, you don’t actually need to move your body much to generate power from weight transfer/torque. If you look at Ackley’s swing for example, he rarely lifts his foot at all. Although from a coaching standpoint, you’d typically like to see him with a shorter stride, it obviously works for him.

Ichiro in general though, is a complete anomaly. There’s nothing physiologically observable about his swing (from previous years) that makes it seem like he should do what he can do. The one thing I notice about both swings though is that his hips are more or less in the same place, so he’s generating his torque on the same plane in both swings.

also if you notice

in the “new” swing, his back foot doesn’t come off the ground. That translates into more sustained power and balance giving him the ability to drive the ball further

Totally agree. Jim Edmonds is the extreme example, power hitter with absolutely no stride at all
He's also keeping both hands on the bat in his follow through

vs. a one handed follow through before.

I want to see Ichiro's approach in action against live pitching.

Will he still try to swing at every pitch he thinks he can handle or will he be more selective? Should be interesting.

I'm wondering if he's still gonna bail out of the box on his swings in the game.
But wouldn't batting with runners on base be different depending on who those runners are?

Wasn’t most of the people on base when Ichiro was up last year either Bedard or Fister? Wouldn’t it now be Ackley (and one out)?

I'm thinking that since 144 games are played against AL teams, on base ahead of Ichiro! most of the time was not a pitcher.
This may have been a joke about the awfulness of the lineup.

On the other hand

He said he could hit 30 homers if we didn't mind a .220avg

The new stance looks more grounded through the feet allowing a stronger push through the hips. The power should be coming through his core and hips which are stronger than the shoulder based slap we are used to. Should lead to more line drives and less slow rollers in theory. Also in theory… he shouldn’t be able to swing at balls 4 feet outside the zone causing a bit less vlad Guererro pitch selection.

It seems to me Ichiro’s approach is different with runners on. Lifting it over the SS or 2B instead of aiming contact and legging it out.

Actually, he said 40 homers
How about we split the difference, Ichiro.

We’ll take 35/.260 all damn day.

ok, i guess the difference might be closer to 25/.260

still…

This is going to be an interesting year

I probably spend to much time thinking about Ichiro’s contact. I wonder what to expect if Ichiro’s RBI totals goes up.

Pretty soon you'll probably trade that for spending too much time thinking about Ichiro's new contract
Batting 3rd may have the least inning lead-off ABs of any slot

So this will be very different from that aspect. Lead-off slot is guranteed 162 inning lead-off PAs per season, while the 2 and 3 slots are guaranteed to have one PA per game non-leadoff. Since the 3 slot has a few less PAs over the season than the 2 slot, the 3 slot may have the least lead-off inning opportunities of any slot in the line-up (the 9 slot had 119 less PAs than the 3 slot in 2011, or 43 more opportunities to lead-off an inning (162-119)).

Oooo I like it

I wonder what Guti thinks of Ichi’s fashion taste these days, though. Gah, he’s still wearing those purple-lightning sliders!

I'm just happy to see new Ichiro .gifs

Even when Ichiro had a rough last season year I always had faith that he would succeed. And as a fun I’m just happy he’s still in the lineup.

Ichiro has always done what the team asked

He played centerfield when they needed a centerfielder. He has played with a collection of clowns and incompetent management. He has hit leadoff with eighth and ninth hitters who looked up at the pitchers’ batting statistics with envy.

If Ackley bats second, Ichiro will have more at-bats with a man on base than at any time in his career. Of course, if Figgins bats leadoff, he will almost never bat with two men on base.

If that's the case,

I doubt Figgins would remain at leadoff.

Because Figgins will hit a dinger in every game!
One interesting question I'd like to see addressed:

What has been the success rate of base stealers while Ichiro is at bat?

I would expect Ichiro to be adept at nudging the ball into gaps left open while runners are held at first. Perhaps knowing this, opposing teams might do less to hold runners while Ichiro is up, keeping the first baseman off the bag (hence Ichiro’s similar career numbers with and without runners on). I would also expect Ichiro to be very good at putting wood on the ball when he has to, protecting runners in hit-and-run situations.

These seem to be very testable hypotheses: they would tend to be supported if base stealers do better with Ichiro at bat than at their career success rates.

Holy crap, what will the IchiMeter people count now? Will they add slots for doubles and HRs or something?
Age?
Is age really relevant for an immortal being?

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