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Mike Carp And Left Field

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I've been sitting on this topic for a few days. It occurred to me not long ago that this is something I should probably write about. When the Mariners traded for Mike Carp, he was a first baseman. We all assumed he would be a first baseman, or a DH. Now he's an outfielder. Mike Carp didn't only play left field in 2011 - according to Eric Wedge's words, and according to the roster picture, he's going to play a lot of left field in 2012. Casper Wells is probably going to play a lot of left field in 2012, too, but there will be Carp. Plenty of Carp.

Ordinarily, what happens when I have a writing topic in mind for a number of days is that the post starts to take form in my head. The gears whirr, and an outline develops. I come up with the right intro. I come up with the right body of evidence. I come up with a snappy conclusion or something. That didn't happen here. I came up with this intro. As for the rest, well, you'll see the rest.

The idea of Mike Carp in left field is not a particularly pleasant one at first, at least relative to what one would like in left field. As we've been talking about for years, left field defense in Safeco might actually be more important than left field defense in most other parks. Carp was a first baseman before he was an outfielder. That's usually a bad sign. Carp was never thought to be gifted in the field, and that was at an easier position.

It's true that Carp isn't quite the schlub that he used to be. Before last season, he whipped himself into magnificent shape. It's all anybody wanted to talk about. He's still in good shape now. Maybe better shape. I saw him last week and he looked a hell of a lot more fit than I am, and I'm a professional baseball blogger. These are pretty high standards.

But outfield defense isn't just about the shape that you're in. It relies on instincts. I don't know much about Carp's outfield instincts. It relies on experience. Carp has fair but limited outfield experience. It relies on footspeed. Carp, even now, does not have very good footspeed. His career high for steals is six. His career high for triples is two. Also, look at him run. He's not a burner.

I spent a little time going through Carp's MLB.com video highlights. His defensive highlights. I wanted to see if anything would stand out to me. Then I realized it's not fair to just look at a guy's video highlights. A guy's video highlights will make him look better than he is, because they generally capture his best plays. There isn't a video highlight for "Mike Carp watches double bounce ten feet away." Carp did make a handful of full-extension diving catches. Those are always a kick, and not to be completely ignored.

The name I keep coming back to, for whatever reason, is Logan Morrison. Trust me, this is unscientific. It's basically a gut feeling if you want to go ahead and ignore this whole paragraph. Morrison was a first baseman. He became an outfielder. He does not seem to be a very good outfielder at all. Defensive stats and everything, yeah, and none of us regularly watches the Marlins because nobody regularly watches the Marlins. But I have to believe that Logan Morrison, as a defensive left fielder, is pretty far below average.

Of course, take a guy like Josh Willingham. Willingham was a lot of things, but he was a catcher before he was an outfielder. He seems to have become an acceptable defensive outfielder. There are cases where these guys work out okay, and there are cases where these guys work out less okay.

I don't think that Mike Carp, in left field, is a defensive disaster. I don't think that Mike Carp in left field is completely unworkable. Remember how long the Mariners kept Raul Ibanez in left field. The Mariners are clearly very open to giving Carp a lot of ground to cover on a pretty frequent basis.

Carp will probably be below average. It would be a minor miracle if he were not. He was a first baseman. What remains to be seen is how far below average he is. He could be a little below average, or he could be unacceptably below average. And here's the convenient thing - if the Mariners were looking to contend, I'd be wary about the prospect of Carp in left field. The Mariners are not looking to contend. Not realistically, not in 2012. 2012 is going to be a "well let's see" kind of season. So the Mariners can afford to see of what Carp is capable without jeopardizing a shot at the playoffs.

I doubt it's going to be pretty, but there's value in seeing if Carp can cut it in left. If he can, hey, all right. That's useful. If he can't, well, now we know. An unfortunate scenario would be Carp being a bad left fielder in 2012 and then the Mariners committing to him out there for the future anyway, but we needn't worry about that yet.

Hell, we don't even know what Carp's bat would look like over a full season. A year from now he might not even be in the picture. With the 2012 Mariners looking okay but not good enough, I don't see the harm in testing Carp's limits. The risk is just not that great.

3 recs  |  75 comments

Comments

At first I assumed that Carp would be the DH and Casper Wells would play LF.

But then we traded for Montero who’s going to likely DH more often than he catches, so where does that leave Wells? The 4th OF?

The right hand portion of a platoon with carp?

Backup CF? Backup RF? He’s probably more than a 4th outfielder. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got 400 AB’s.

I kinda feel like Wells is going to be a sorta super sub, except for just the OF spots.
I assume we'll see Casper rotating around all three OF positions a lot this season.

1. LF/DH platoon with Carp for the days that Montero catches.
2. CF platoon/insurance with Guti just in case he still isn’t back to form.
3. Some looks in RF to see whether or not he can be a long term Ichiro replacement, assuming the organization is looking into that like they should be.

He has legitimate power and a plus glove, he’s going to force his way into the line up one way or the other if he plays like he did before the Morrow fastball incident.

The way I like to see it, in my head...

Vs. Lefty Starter :
C : Montero/Olivo
DH : Carp/Montero
LF : Wells
CF : Guti

Vs. Righty Strater :
C : Jaso
DH : Montero
LF : Carp
CF : Guti/Wells

This way we would get Montero enough work at catcher and Wells enough at-bats, while giving Gutisex some off-days and optimizing our handedness matchups.

Of course, the part I don't like seeing in my head...

is the Chone/Seager combo that also rotates at 3B.

If you take out Chone and add Seager then it's a great combo!
"Of course, the part I don't like seeing in my head...

is the xxxxx/Seager combo that also rotates at 3B."
Hey! That does look a little better! Glass half full!

The M's can hope for a 2010-Giants style of outfield

Where the superior CF can help cover a lot of those deficiencies.

I'm pretty sure this has been looked out before, but I can't find anything right now.

Does anyone remember if Having Guti makes the corner defenses any less important? It seems like it should, but I doubt enough to make a difference.

Remember that play where both Carp and Trayvon both dove for the ball in between them and the ball rolled to the wall?

Guti would have caught that.

My main concern with Carp in LF is the fact that we play in Safeco.

In other parks, I wouldn’t be too concerned with his defense. Based off of the SSS we have he seems to have good instincts out there, his only real problem being his speed. But in a more neutral park that isn’t too big of a concern. But as you said, left field defense in Safeco does seem to matter more than in other parks.

I think he’ll be alright for the most part, but we’ll also have to watch some balls go into corner that wouldn’t have otherwise due a combination of the park’s size and Carp’s lack of speed.

I would argue that there's no Left Field anymore. It's not like Griifith Stadium where in was 388 down the line.

What’s the worst that can happen? He doesn’t get to a ball so someone ends up on second? It’s not like you are going to get a triple or inside-the-park by hitting one down there. My conclusion is, if he can hit, screw it.

There's no left field anymore? What does that mean?

A left fielder can allow a triple or a home run if they miss a ball, just not necessarily down the line.

If a ball is hit in the left field gap the centerfielder has a better trajectory anyway.

I failed in my research but I doubt there was one triple hit on the left side of center field in Safeco last year.

And I think there's no way that's true
What's the worst that can happen?

The runner on second scores. The runner on first scores. And of course you can get a triple by hitting one down there if it gets past the fielder.

If you have a runner on first and second and a ball is scorched enough to get by the left fieder

I Dont think the left fielder is the one that has the problem.

The worst that can happen?

I will tell you what I think is the worst that can happen. Mike Carp“s inferior speed causes him to not get to a ball as fast as a better fielder would, which leads to the young diehard Mariners fan who happens to be in the military and stationed at a tactical nuclear base to slam his fist in frustration, causing his desk break sending things everywhich way somehow causing a nuke to get launched, which then leads to the US nuking a destination (most likely Russia) which thus leads to nuclear war and the destruction of the earth. What is the worst that can happen. Much worse than a triple good sir.

A bad play causing the nuclear annihilation of the world would be so Mariners.
This will be a lot easier if Montero shows that's he's not a complete black hole at catcher right?

They can get Olivo the hell out of the lineup, let Carp DH and have Casper be the every day guy in left. I like the lineup a lot better with both Carp and Wells in it.

Even getting rid of Olivo so Jaso can get constant playing time makes me like the line up better.
That's probably the best case scenario.

Even though it doesn’t seem likely, but it would be really, really terrific if Montero becomes a competent catcher.

I guess there's no harm in giving Carp a longer audition in LF to see what he can do

But, assuming that Wells is 15 runs better than Carp in the field, Carp needs to wOBA almost 30 points better than Wells to justify playing there. That’s assuming that Carp is bad but not godawful and Wells is good but not exceptional. Of course, both players have something of a platoon split so…

Also, I would argue that by playing him in left field we're not just trying him out in left field.

He’s auditioning for first base as well, because if he shows he can hit well enough for the position and Smoak struggles he’s probably going to fill that role. I’m guessing this year is more about whether or not he can hit than whether or not he can play defense.

I'm tending to assume Smoak will hit, but this might be

counting my monkeys before they’re out of the trees.

I think Carp won't have to cover as much ground as long as Gutierrez is next to him in CF.

That’ll certainly help offset some range limitations.

I'm more worried about balls getting into the corner than those in the gap, with or without Guti.
In my opinion, he'll defend at a level above the Ibanez line

And that’s all I really care about. Let’s see.

I love that people still look at the Mariners and say "good pitching and defense" because that's just the narrative everyone likes to use

There’s a chance Ichiro, Seager, Ackley, Figgins, Smoak, Olivo and Carp all provide negative value in the field. Certainly I wouldn’t bank on any being very good defenders.

And our pitching is also probably not very good.

Well we do have one of the best SS in the game in Brendan Ryan

And one of the best CF in the game in Franklin Gutierrez, and those are two of the most important defensive positions. I certainly don’t think Ackley or Ichiro will be negatives in the field, based on what I’ve seen Ackley do and based on Ichiro’s track record. Seager is a wash and so is Smoak. Figgins doesn’t look to play much, so it’s down to Olivo and Carp providing negative value in the field. I think we have a very good chance to run an opposing BABIP lower than the league average, based on:

1. Brendan Ryan and Franklin Gutierrez being superb in the field
2. Ackley, Ichiro, Smoak, and Seager combining to be ~average or slightly above average
3. Carp being shitty, Olivo also being shitty but catchers (and correct me if I’m wrong) don’t really affect opposing BABIP that we can measure.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

It seems like people think “hey, we’re the M’s, we play in Safeco and we’re entitled to good pitching”. Don’t they remember how many pitchers who performed poorly or didn’t pan out?

Losing Pineda, Fister, and Bedard comes at a cost.

The memory of Miguel Batista still makes me shudder.
I'm curious. Who thinks this?

2011 was the first year in like 8 that the team had above average pitching

Really?

That’s an incredible number! I’ll have to check that out.

In my defense(?), I spend a lot of time on Baker’s blog. Explains a lot, I know.

Well, there's your first problem.
Baker's latest blog post is literally trying to argue that Carlos Guillen should make the club over Kyle Seager.

Or something. It kind of rambles.

I mean, sheesh, I’m kind of happy he doesn’t just kiss the ass of the organization like a large majority of the local media, but a vast majority of the content he pushes out is blatant trolling.

And there's a better chance that the team is above average defensively

I have them at +20 runs for 2011 and who exactly would you expect to be worse in 2012?

Ryan and Guti are such fantastic defenders that they likely make up for the team as a whole

I never said I think the team will be below average, we just have a lot more defenders with unknown or possibly declining (Ichiro) defense.

Having Carp as the primary LFer certainly makes us worse, if that is how it shakes out. We have no way to have a solid read on Ackley and Seager’s defense yet, and scouts don’t seem to love them at their respective positions (even if that is groupthink at play). Smoak has seemed around average, but I can’t see him being a very positive contributor.

I think there is a very good chance that we’re above average defensively. But I think outside of two positions there are lots of average to questionable type guys.

It's also likely that just Ackley is worse at 2B than (Ackley+Jack Wilson), and that

playing Seager (and/or Liddi) at the expense of Figgins makes the team worse overall at 3B. Not that I’d mind.

How would playing Seager/Liddi at the expense of Figgins make the team worse at 3B?

Growing pains? Figgins has become pretty terrible all around, including with the glove on defense.

So you think there's a very good chance that the Mariners end up with good defense?
Yes, that is what I said.
Ok.

I found it odd that your subject line a couple posts back:

I love that people still look at the Mariners and say “good pitching and defense” because that’s just the narrative everyone likes to use

seemed to imply the the team wouldn’t have good defense this year.

I'm a bit less optomistic about their defense this season.

They’ve had a reputation the last few years for having an excellent defense, but I’m not sure that really holds true anymore.

I see excellent defenders at short and centerfield, and a probable above average one in right, but problems at catcher and perhaps thirdbase and left field. Somewhat average-ish defense at first and second. I don’t see them as having big problems overall, but It looks to be a mixed bag, and I’m not at all sure that we’re going to see the level of defense we’re used to seeing from them.

Cost=((Pineda+Fister+Bedard) - (Iwakuma+Noesi+Millwood)) / (1-Jeff Weaver^2)
Oops! Reply fail.

Divide by zero, apparently.

Apparently Jeff Weaver = 1 then.
My assessment of the cost is more accurate
You must be very proud.

Just like I’m proud of myself for replying correctly. Yay me!!!

Next step: learn what cost means
Baby steps.
Knowledge like that don't come free
I just learned that lesson from Poochie!

The bill is probably in the mail : (

Hmmm... that seems a little high.
Crap. I give up.
Carp's bat was the only thing keeping me watching games in Aug/Sep

Like, previously stated. As long as he doesn’t degress defensively and Guti stays healthy, I’m not gonna worry about his glove that much.

Just imagine him as Logan Morrison

-15 UZR are all the same

It's good to hear from your gut again. It had been awhile and some of us were getting worried.
I would accept Carp in LF if he can put up 2008 Raul Ibanez offense (.293/.358/.479, 23 HR, 43 doubles, .356 wOBA)
You need a good SS, you need a good CF,

Beyond that,

BATS>>>>>>GLOVES.

Welcome. Please back up your contrarian views with evidence.
I dont know what he was talking about in terms of CF and SS,

but it can only be assumed that given how much greater it seems that bats are than gloves, he is refering to the much greater number of bats that are used in Major League Baseball. This is likely because bats are much more prone to breaking than gloves, leading many players to own WAY more bats than gloves (it also may be that the reason he mentioned SS and CF is that due to their defencive significance, they own dramatically more gloves than the average player, making it so they only have slightly more bats than gloves). It is also possible that he was referring to how, when you repeatedly bash a glove with a bat, it tends to break, where as when you repeatedly bash a bat with a glove, the bat is most likely left intact. I would consider Fumanchuchu to have made a very reasonable point, although kind of obvious and slightly confusing, given them multiple possible interpretations.

I think the six greater than signs made his point for him.
Trust him on this, hear's a doctoror
I don't know what's wrong with my spelling today but I apologize to the Lookout Landing community.

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